A Daycare Story

This is a story shared by people who work at a very good daycare with extremely experienced staff.

Usually, kids take one or two weeks to get used to daycare. At first, they cry and ask for their parents, but, eventually, they start loving their new little friends and the great activities they are offered, and you have to drag them out of the daycare in the evening, kicking and screaming. (I’ve seen this with my own eyes.)

One kid, though, just couldn’t get used to daycare. One month, two months, three months, he just cries all day long. And he’s not an infant. They boy is a toddler and his peers already talk, walk, play games, have friends, etc. But this boy just cries and cries. The daycare workers are baffled because they’ve never had such a case.

One day, the boy’s mother comes and sees that he is crying even harder than he usually does.

So she whips out her breast right there, puts it into the boy’s mouth, and starts breast-feeding him. Right there, in front of the other kids from his group, the daycare workers, and the other parents. And the kid immediately calms down.

“Finally, we realized what was going on and why the kid couldn’t get used to daycare,” one of the daycare workers says. “The boy was experiencing a cognitive dissonance that his brain was not yet ready to process. On the one hand, he was asked to be a toddler who goes to kindergarten every day, who is expected to have some degree of autonomy and toddler-level skills. On the other hand, though, he was receiving the message that he is a babe in arms who is breastfed and who has not begun the process of separation from his mother even on a basic physiological level.”

I’m telling this story because, in my opinion, it exemplifies an attitude that many parents exhibit towards their children. On the one hand, they monitor their every move, call their college professors to argue about the kids’ grades, criticize their choices endlessly and then genuinely wonder why the 22-year-old kid has planted him or herself in their basement with no plans to move out and start an independent adult existence.

Of course, this plays out the other way round, too. If you expect your parents to treat you as an independent adult, it’s really important to be one. So you’ll kind of have to move out of that basement, or at least make efforts in that direction, if you want your adult choices to be respected.

61 thoughts on “A Daycare Story”

  1. That’s partially the reason I decided to limit my contact with my mother; she wasn’t going to let me control my own life, because she never really learned how to fully take charge of her own life herself, and was unknowingly passing on the same learned laziness onto me.
    Thankfully though, I was weaned after 6 months.

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    1. I was never even breastfed but it took me about a decade longer than it took you to get to the same level of self-awareness. And now you and I even have the same blogging ideas at the same time. 🙂

      I’m very inspired by you, Leah Jane.

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  2. I didn’t have parents who desired for me to be anything other than independent. They dropped me at nursery school and there I stayed. I was never picked up early due to protesting. Later in life, though, after migration, there was a lot of parental manipulation. They wanted to make their Rhodesian experience (war and the like) count by bringing me up as a conservative. That wasn’t going to work out because Rhodesian conservatism is akin to an infantile state in relation to the world. It’s politically and socially naive, albeit thick-skinned about being out of step with the rest of the world. I’ve retained that thick-skinned aspect, but I couldn’t condemn myself to social ineptitude at the beginning of my life, so necessarily, I had to rebel.

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    1. “I didn’t have parents who desired for me to be anything other than independent.”

      – My friend, didn’t you share a story of your father who saw you as a part of his brain? Was this an instance of a double-message that was sent to you?

      By the way, your story about your father helped me a lot. The only difference that my father never saw things differently after his stroke.

      ” I’ve retained that thick-skinned aspect, but I couldn’t condemn myself to social ineptitude at the beginning of my life, so necessarily, I had to rebel.”

      – I’m not sure I understand the part about the social ineptitude. How did your parents prefer that role for you?

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  3. bloggerclarissa :
    “I didn’t have parents who desired for me to be anything other than independent.”
    – My friend, didn’t you share a story of your father who saw you as a part of his brain? Was this an instance of a double-message that was sent to you?

    That is supposed to be understood within the context of the linear narrative. I should have stated my age: until the age of 12…..

    In any case, I’m not confused, just brief. The longer version is my memoir.

    By the way, your story about your father helped me a lot. The only difference that my father never saw things differently after his stroke.

    I’m glad it helped you. He is really a different person after the stroke. It was a right brain stroke, so it destroyed the intuitive, religious side, to an extreme degree. Now, his thinking is much more rational. You can see some of it on my blog. He even corrects previous tendencies, such as when he implies, “I wanted to say my wife wasn’t coping, but now I’m saying that wasn’t true.”

    ” I’ve retained that thick-skinned aspect, but I couldn’t condemn myself to social ineptitude at the beginning of my life, so necessarily, I had to rebel.”
    – I’m not sure I understand the part about the social ineptitude. How did your parents prefer that role for you?

    Oh–It’s part of the Rhodesian ethos. Rhodesians never die. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GQMrD53Jofc

    We don’t care what people think of us. I grew up believing I was a rebel from a rebel nation. We had a tough dimension to us in that we didn’t feel very much in terms of the need to accommodate the expectations of those not in our nation or culture.

    This isn’t really ineptitude unless the degree of insensitivity prevents you from learning.

    Actually, right now, these days, I have gone entirely back into that mode of almost complete indifference, so it’s not ineptitude, but the regressive religiosity and stuck-in-the-1940s attitude would have been.

    Sorry if this is hard to understand. Most people resist understanding the historical and psychological complexity because they it is easier to take the line that one opposes “racists” and that Rhodesians were racist, hence nothing to learn from here.

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    1. It is, indeed, quite hard to understand. Not because I have any prejudices against white Rhodesians buts simply because I know nothing about the country or its issues. I definitely don’t think that all white Africans are racists and I can’t say I even ever encountered the suggestion they are. So this is not my issue at all. I have wondered what it must be like to be an African, that’s true.

      I also find Australianness (a clumsy verbal constriction, I know!) to be extremely fascinating. I read a book about Australia as a teenager (feel free to dump on me as silly exoticizing foerigner, I deserve it) and I always thought of Australia as this last refuge place where one can go to recreate one’s existence when all else fails.

      I know that I will be hated for this but the feeling of “there is always Australia” is very powerful for me.

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    1. “Sorry—that’s come out really badly. I’ve included part of my response in the quotation box.”

      -It’s OK, I see the entire thing in my Dashboard.

      So what I was trying to say is that I know how to engage with you as an Australian bit I’m completely at a loss as to how to do so with a Rhodesian.

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  4. bloggerclarissa :
    It is, indeed, quite hard to understand. Not because I have any prejudices against white Rhodesians buts simply because I know nothing about the country or its issues. I definitely don’t think that all white Africans are racists and I can’t say I even ever encountered the suggestion they are. So this is not my issue at all. I have wondered what it must be like to be an African, that’s true.
    I also find Australianness (a clumsy verbal constriction, I know!) to be extremely fascinating. I read a book about Australia as a teenager (feel free to dump on me as silly exoticizing foerigner, I deserve it) and I always thought of Australia as this last refuge place where one can go to recreate one’s existence when all else fails.
    I know that I will be hated for this but the feeling of “there is always Australia” is very powerful for me.

    My husband, from the US, says that Australia is a bit like the US was in the 1950s, in terms of population size and, to some degree, attitudes. You might be interested in his book, which is set here, in the future.

    http://www.amazon.com/Wage-Slaves-Escape-Mike-Ballard/dp/1409255115

    Rhodesian culture is very, very, hard to understand. Even I had a hard time understanding it, because I grew up in it but didn’t understand what either the Rhodesians or the rest of the world were reacting to. The civil war has already started by the time I was born. Then it finished when I was 12 and I emigrated to Australia with my family when I was 16. Once, I emigrated, it was the start of another war, only on a psychological level. My parents wanted me to be staunchly right wing, but Australia was a more liberal culture, especially the university system. My tendencies were left libertarian, although I didn’t have a name for it at that time.

    So, in order to be independent, I had to go against everything my parents had an emotional attachment to, in an ideological sense. It felt like a kind of acceptance of death — either mind or my father’s — when I eventually realized how hostile they were in my late twenties. I had been bullied at work, for being from where I was from. This labour union workplace considered itself a left wing social organisation. Someone there didn’t like me because of where I was from, and indeed I was rather socially inept in those days — too much so to see it coming or to defend myself. I had been suffering from war trauma, not really my own, perhaps, but that of my father. He had been traumatised by war all of his life — first the second world war, which robbed him of his father just after he was born, and then the Rhodesian civil war, which robbed him of his younger brother and sent him on call-up duty, six months in, six months out.

    After all this sacrifice and ideological indoctrination against the infiltrating “communists” (the guerilla groups were trained by USSR and China), my father hated anything remotely “left-wing”. It’s not that he took the time to understand it. He had to immediately assimilate to an entirely different culture starting from a very low status position. He had previously been a lecturer at the Polytech. So, he became even more traumatised.

    It seems he attempted to solve the problems of his profound, underlying trauma from childhood and beyond and his ideological confusion by lashing out at me. His mother had always been insensitive to him, throwing him into the deep end of every new experience, and allowing others to treat him sadistically at times, without intervening. So, my father developed the view that I was in some sense his mother. He became the frightened infant lashing out at her for her insensitivity to his needs.

    Needless to say, this was extremely frightening and confusing to me and made it much more difficult for me to re-orient myself in Australian culture. I’d come from a rurally-based, tribal culture and very little about modernity made any sense to me. I found it extremely inimical.

    My failure to adapt also very much angered my father. He saw his own failure (in his parents eyes) in me and my behaviour.

    However, I couldn’t adapt because I was becoming more and more traumatised. People were treating me like I was a racist and uppity, when I was just extremely shy and didn’t actually know anything about people’s subjective values or beliefs.

    So the right wingers were attacking me for adapting and the left wingers were attacking me for daring to migrate to Australia.

    I developed chronic fatigue syndrome — which took me many years to recover from. My body had totally overheated due to this stress.

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  5. The thick skinned aspect of Rhodesian culture is basically the ability to reduce things to a simple level. One has to be stoical and love the outdoors, nature, camping, that kind of thing. It’s not an intellectual culture.

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  6. And people were still very angry, even ten or fifteen years after the war. Family members had been killed in the war, and many Rhodesians wanted to kill anyone who expressed any leftwing tendencies. This was a primitive rage.

    To leave the conservative culture of Rhodesia is akin to trying to leave the Aum Supreme Truth Cult. If anything, the loss of the war made these emotions much stronger.

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  7. Huh, I extended breastfed and my son had ZERO problem adjusting to daycare. (And so do many many children, including the daughter of my OB. Kids will wean on their own.) I suspect this is just more of your nutty oversexualizing normal parent-child interactions.

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    1. “Huh, I extended breastfed and my son had ZERO problem adjusting to daycare.”

      – I didn’t tell a story about you. I told a story about a Montreal daycare. There are things that happen in this world that are not about you, imagine that.

      ” Kids will wean on their own.”

      – Very funny. What other major decisions are you letting them make on their own as toddlers? Just wondering.

      ” I suspect this is just more of your nutty oversexualizing normal parent-child interactions.”

      – I know you are a highly educated person. What kind of a willful blindness is making you post such a scary statement? My parents were far from perfect but they, at least, did not exhibit such a nonchalant readiness to consume their own kid as you manifest on my blog for the second time in a row. Honestly, you terrify me. Your position is, I’ll stick my breast into the kid’s mouth and drag him / her into my bed as long as I feel like it because an infant / toddler can totally resist her / his mother’s decisions when s/he feels like it. I find this position to be terrifying in its naked cynicism. I have no doubt that you are not prepared to let your kid eat junk food / surf the net / stay out with friends as long as s/he wants smoke/ drink alcohol well into the age when s/he walks and talks. Yet an infant is somehow expected to know and decide when it’s time to let go of Mommy’s nipple.

      Whom are you kidding?

      P.S. I related the daycare story verbatim as it was told to me. Please be prepared for the reality where your kid is pitied as a miserable child of a sexually unfulfilled Mommy who resolves her issues at his / her expense. Because that is who you are. And my stories bother you so much because you are terrified of the idea that one day your kid will be posting something very similar online. Not to worry, though. You are stomping on her / him so much that s/he will never dare to make a squeal that might upset the Mommy.

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  8. I’ve asked time and again that the mommies who cannibalize their miserable kids’ existences respect my traumas and leave me in peace on my blog. I never go to their blogs to make a single comment about their happy consumption of their kids.

    Yet, they keep coming and boasting about how successfully they cannibalize their kids’ existences.

    If they are so dumb and deaf to repeated pleas from a stranger, I can only imagine how they eat their kids alive from one day to another.

    Please, people, can I be excused from hearing stories in defense of housewives, mommies who breastfeed past the age when children can get any actual physiological benefit from breast milk, who drag their miserable kids into bed with them? I have said time and again that this traumatizes me, yet these people come here to promote their insane lifestyles. The universe that is geared towards the patriarchal model applauds them. Yet, they can’t live with the idea that one small blog somewhere will not applaud their cannibalistic choices. And they keep coming and bugging me, telling me that I have a problem.

    Yes, I fucking do have a problem. Care to hear who caused it? A Mommy who couldn’t fucking stop and expected and infant and a toddler to choose to push her away. Feel better now?

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    1. I wanted to ask at which age you think children stop getting “any actual physiological benefit from breast milk”. Is 3 months enough? Or 6? Other? In Israel you can take maternity leave of 3 months with salary and then it’s possible to take 3 more, but without salary. Kindergartens accept kids from 3 months of age and I wonder what’s best for children. My mother said that at 3 months it’s easier to get used, that small kids aren’t afraid yet, unlike at 6 months. Otoh, she thinks 6 months is better since with mother’s milk kids get protection against diseases. Would love to hear your opinion.

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      1. “I wanted to ask at which age you think children stop getting “any actual physiological benefit from breast milk”. Is 3 months enough? Or 6?”

        – It’s not about what I think. I have spoken to people who specialize in the matter and they all state unequivocally that after the age of 6 months there is no physiological reason to breastfeed.

        “Otoh, she thinks 6 months is better since with mother’s milk kids get protection against diseases.”

        – She is absolutely right and not because this is my opinion but because it is the medical consensus.

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  9. This is a very sad story, yet I see this all the time–not the breast-feeding issues, although I’m very aware of the mommies that breast-feed for a long-time and the controversy/opinions surrounding it.

    What I see are parent’s who make their children very dependent on them and it’s all about the parent and their issues. I feel for the kids. It’s in the kid’s best interest to become more independent and as far as I see the parent’s goal should be towards raising a child who learns autonomy, but then a parent wouldn’t feel needed then would they and parenting is all about the parent’s issues. I don’t really care if that sounds cynical or not

    I’m not surprised that these parent’s find your blog and then proceed to have a go at you–they don’t like another person challenging their beliefs–it sounds like criticism and most people don’t do well hearing criticism, even if they dole it out to others.

    People used to try to influence me (control, push, manipulate,etc.) to work as a teacher or work with children. I never had that desire in any way, shape or form. I was always very observant and I started realizing or felt that teaching would really be nothing more than a glorified baby-sitting job and then you would have to deal with these horrible parent’s. I could not think of anything less satisfying or incentivizing. And you know….sadly it is what I’ve often heard from teachers as well–when I ask about their jobs and whether or not they like their work–the response I recall the most was the complaints about having to deal with the idiot parent’s. At least one teacher said that the kids were easy, but it was dealing with the parent’s that would drive you insane and then he went on with several stories illustrating his point. I heard the same thing from a neighbor who was a principle. She stated that she hated, just hated her work (she’s been in the field for over 20 years–now that is a sad commentary. She also stated that city school districts were always, always about the teachers, not about the kids.

    I do agree with you…

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    1. “It’s in the kid’s best interest to become more independent and as far as I see the parent’s goal should be towards raising a child who learns autonomy, but then a parent wouldn’t feel needed then would they and parenting is all about the parent’s issues. I don’t really care if that sounds cynical or not”

      – It’s very often true, though.

      Thank you for a great insightful comment!

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  10. “P.S. I related the daycare story verbatim as it was told to me. ”

    If this was your sister’s daycare, and the staff discussed the situation along with their off-the-cuff analysis with other parents at the school they should be reported for their unprofessional behavior. I really hope this is not the case.

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    1. Since when discussing things that people do in public is unprofessional? Or is this yet another attempt to troll a thread?

      You seem to be not only “a specialist on evolution” but a huge “specialist on daycares”, too. Are you also an astronaut and a neurosurgeon?

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        1. So when I tell my students, “The subjunctive is very hard, so people take different approaches to mastering it. Once, for example, I had a student who devised the following system of doing it. . . And then another student did the following. . .” that is all unprofessional and I should be reported?

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      1. “Maybe I should have specified that this situation happened several years ago and nobody was named by name. It was just story about an anonymous person from many years ago.”

        Yes, that makes a difference. It sounded like a recent incident at the school the way I first read it.

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  11. I was on student exchange in China a few years ago. When chatting with some other students from Europe and the US, I mentioned that I thought the application paper work had been completely overwhelming (including listing my siblings’ occupation and details about my period, urgh). The response?

    “Oh, I didn’t do any of that. My parents arranged it for me.”

    I remember being so baffled I completely failed to come up with any appropriate response. I was all “Your parents, but..but, what? No, wait, seriously – what?” hah. The thought of letting me parents organize my move across the entire PLANET didn’t even cross my mind, but if I had suggested it to my mum, I think she would just have cursed me.

    These were also the kids who had no clue what they were doing in general.

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  12. “Finally, we realized what was going on and why the kid couldn’t get used to daycare,” one of the daycare workers says. “The boy was experiencing a cognitive dissonance that his brain was not yet ready to process. On the one hand, he was asked to be a toddler who goes to kindergarten every day, who is expected to have some degree of autonomy and toddler-level skills. On the other hand, though, he was receiving the message that he is a babe in arms who is breastfed and who has not begun the process of separation from his mother even on a basic physiological level.”

    I’ve met a lot of people who would defend such behaviors as being in the best interest of their child. I’ve often found myself around people telling me things about themselves, yammering on and on about breast-feeding–that I would rather not hear and don’t wish to know as I don’t care to have that level of personal information about them-(I’m thinking of some co-workers). These types then tend to get defensive, not because I’m criticizing them, but I think because they feel that they’ve been attacked by other people. What they want from me and why they even bother me with their issues or tell me the things that they do is beyond me. Mostly, I wish I didn’t have any type of interaction with them.

    I do disagree with this type of behavior and I’m certain as you say it contributed heavily to the child poorly adjusting to his environment which would impact the workers trying to deal with the child. Regardless of whether it is professional or not I imagine the workers would want to talk about it given that this type of scenario affects them too–not just the kid. Workers, including teachers, etc., need safe places to discuss frustrating behaviors–as I see it in many cases they are just blowing off some steam and trying to relate to others who may be dealing with the same issues. I don’t see that as unprofessional, if it is not done around the kids.

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    1. This was one of the stories the daycare workers shared in response to the question “What can we do to help our child adapt to daycare faster?”

      They could have simply said, “Don’t create a cognitive dissonance for the kid”, of course. But that wouldn’t have been very helpful. Real stories illustrate the point much better.

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    2. Maybe it is different in Canada, but daycare workers are typically underpaid and not highly educated (except head teachers and maybe the director). They are not experts in child psychology. Parents also need to feel that they are not being gossiped about by the staff to the other parents. Children are not babies one day, and the very next day toddlers. All children transition gradually.

      The best advice for parents is to ignore all the suggestions about hanging around and letting the child gradually get used to the place, etc. This usually just prolongs things and the kids rarely engage with the other kids while the parent is there, especially shy kids*. I used to tell parents who reacted with understandable hesitation to their child’s tearful pleas to listen at the door after leaving, or spy on the kids from a distance during outdoor play. They could observe that the child quickly adjusted and much of the crying was for the parents’ sake. That usually worked. I strongly suspect that this kid had bigger problems than breast feeding.

      *same goes for nanny/babysitters. I used to have to just wait this process out-my relationship with the kid went nowhere until the parents finally left us alone. Yet I see this same useless advice in parenting magazines all the time, grrr.

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      1. “Maybe it is different in Canada, but daycare workers are typically underpaid and not highly educated ”

        – Please share with us your credentials in child psychology, Isabel. You dump on people you know nothing about and dismiss them as undereducated. Then, you proceed to offer advice on child psychology. It would make sense for you to share which high level of education in this field you have achieved.

        ” I strongly suspect that this kid had bigger problems than breast feeding.”

        – After this statement, I insist that you tell us what kind of education allows you to judge the work of people you have not seen and blab about a kid you have never observed.

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      2. I have no credentials in child psychology, like most childcare workers. That is my point. What are the credentials of the people who “diagnosed” the situation in the story you told? I’m not putting anyone down.

        I suggested the child had problems beyond breastfeeding because I have worked in nursery schools and ran a home day care for 1-3 year olds and have known many well-adjusted children who were still being breastfed. It is also not clear from your story how old the child was. Toddlers is a term in the US used for 1-3 year olds. Kindergarten in the US is for 4-6 yr olds. It may be different in Canada.

        Again, crying for months is certainly an indication that something is wrong, and over mothering could be the problem, but there could be many reasons and I wouldn’t take it upon myself as a daycare worker to diagnose the problem so quickly (and I would personally have told the parent long before this time that it wasn’t working out- I did that once as resources in a day care are limited).

        Of course this story may just be a hyperbolic, simplified parable.

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        1. “I have no credentials in child psychology, like most childcare workers. That is my point. What are the credentials of the people who “diagnosed” the situation in the story you told”

          – These are all highly educated people and the daycare is extremely fancy.

          “I suggested the child had problems beyond breastfeeding because I have worked in nursery schools and ran a home day care for 1-3 year olds and have known many well-adjusted children who were still being breastfed. ”

          – It’s a tragedy that such poorly educated people are entrusted the care of children. I understand that not everybody gets a chance to acquire formal education, that’s fine. But there are many ways to avoid such basic psychological illiteracy. These are not stones you are talking about, these are people. How is it possible for anybody who works with children to know nothing about the stages of development and the difference between being breastfed at one and at three?

          “there could be many reasons and I wouldn’t take it upon myself as a daycare worker to diagnose the problem so quickly”

          – You wouldn’t. But people with a bunch of degrees and certificates did.

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      3. “- These are all highly educated people and the daycare is extremely fancy.”

        I have no idea what this means. “extremely fancy” wtf?

        “- You wouldn’t. But people with a bunch of degrees and certificates did.”

        So you say. I have never heard of a daycare where the workers all had “a bunch of degrees” and were all qualified to do psychological diagnosis of the clientele. I doubt such a place exists anywhere.

        “How is it possible for anybody who works with children to know nothing about the stages of development and the difference between being breastfed at one and at three? ”

        You are the illiterate one here. That was my point- how old was this kid? You don’t even know do you? I think you made up the whole story. By the way I know a lot more about child development than you do. You are also severely lacking in compassion.

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        1. “and were all qualified to do psychological diagnosis of the clientele”

          – Please find out the definition of the term “psychology” and “diagnosis.”

          “You are also severely lacking in compassion.”

          – Believe me, I have a lot of compassion towards you.

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      4. “and were all qualified to do psychological diagnosis of the clientele”

        – Please find out the definition of the term “psychology” and “diagnosis.”

        No thank you, I know what they mean. That boy’s problems were severe; to instantly conclude it was “cognitive dissonance” because the mother “whips out her breast” and he stops crying on that particular occasion is ridiculous. If he was just babied he would have eventually opened up and matured during the time he was away from her- this is common enough and I have seen it many times.

        ““You are also severely lacking in compassion.”

        – Believe me, I have a lot of compassion towards you.”

        I was obviously talking about the children and their parents. And you are lying anyway, another unattractive trait.

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      5. “- What makes you think that my goal is to be attractive to you?”

        I don’t think that. I think you are very hostile actually, although I don’t know why, or care.

        Lying is considered repellent by most people, isn’t it? Maybe not.

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        1. ““- What makes you think that my goal is to be attractive to you?”

          I don’t think that.”

          – Then what makes you share your opinion on what you do or don’t find attractive in me? This is a very unhealthy clinginess. Probably you don’t see how strange you look when you start explaining to complete strangers on their blogs that you don’t find them attractive.

          ‘ I think you are very hostile actually, although I don’t know why, or care.”

          – You consider your life to be so devoid of value that you waste it on discussing things you neither know nor care about?

          ‘Lying is considered repellent by most people, isn’t it? Maybe not.”

          – You are a spokeswoman for humanity now?

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  13. – She is absolutely right and not because this is my opinion but because it is the medical consensus.

    I know you are aware that many people could care less about “medical consensus” and reject that in favor of what suits them using every kind of rationalization that they can think of. I encounter this type of thinking and rationalizations all of the time. It is frustrating to say the least, but people are resistant, especially when it comes to their “mini versions of me”. I wonder if you’ve heard about babies/toddlers and evacuation (elimination) methods? There’s a movement, but I don’t recollect what it is called of parents who feel that it is “healthier” or whatever to take their kid in a public restroom and allow the kid to urinate in a public sink. I first heard about this on a mothering site on the Internet. It tends to make me very angry that people would justify using public restrooms for that. It’s extremely inconsiderate of other people.

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    1. “There’s a movement, but I don’t recollect what it is called of parents who feel that it is “healthier” or whatever to take their kid in a public restroom and allow the kid to urinate in a public sink. I first heard about this on a mothering site on the Internet.”

      – WHAT??? Oh, shit. This is just so out of this world bizarre that I have no words for it. Inconsiderate doesn’t even begin to describe it.

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      1. Yes, inconsiderate is mild when I think the practice quite vile in public settings. I just thought I’d be more diplomatic given your experience of angry parent’s visiting your site. I think the practice is referred to as EC or elimination communication (diaper-free). When I first heard about it–it was on a forum where parent’s were swapping stories–such as leaving their baby’s pee (in a container) in their host’s fridge, after attending a party the night before, which they find humorous. I read no further given the nature of some of those stories, so I don’t know much about it other than reading what I did was so disgusting that I just stopped.

        Imagine opening up a container in your fridge filled with baby pee and some jerk of a human being finding that amusing–talk about self-absorbed and clueless. I have to wonder if nut jobs like that would find themselves friendless.

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  14. “That boy’s problems were severe; to instantly conclude it was “cognitive dissonance” because the mother “whips out her breast” and he stops crying on that particular occasion is ridiculous.”

    This sounds reasonable to me. Who the fuck knows what was going on in that child’s life, what happens at home, what other trauma he was going through. We don’t know *anything*, except that one snapshot of his life, and to draw an instamatic conclusion based on that does seem excessive.

    Do continue with the Isabel-Clarissa insult-fest, round 1487!

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    1. Clarissa obviously made up the story to support her anti-breast feeding crusade. Some of her tall tales are amusing, like the one about getting kicked out of a bar for being over dressed. But this one isn’t funny.

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      1. I’m actually very much in favor of breastfeeding and definitely plan to breastfeed if I have a kid. Breastfeeding in the first 6th months of a child’s life is crucial for a variety of very important reasons.

        So this anti-breastfeeding crusade is a figment of your imagination.

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      2. Isabel–

        Did you breast feed for a longtime and is that why you are responding as you are? I didn’t interpret this story as being about Clarissa being some proponent or on a anti-breast feeding crusade. Seriously, I do not get your response or the reason for your antagonism either.

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      3. “Isabel–

        Did you breast feed for a longtime and is that why you are responding as you are? I didn’t interpret this story as being about Clarissa being some proponent or on a anti-breast feeding crusade.

        You are new to this blog aren’t you – stick around. A mother who breastfeeds past what Clarissa has declared the deadline is the most vile person imaginable, according to her. The way she told the story here gives it away, the mother “whips it out” “in front of everyone” etc. How shocking! It only reveals her own issues, not anyone elses.

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        1. ” A mother who breastfeeds past what Clarissa has declared the deadline is the most vile person imaginable, according to her.”

          – Projections, projections. Or can you actually provide a quote where I say “A mother who breastfeeds past . . . the deadline is the most vile person imaginable”?

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    2. “- Then what makes you share your opinion on what you do or don’t find attractive in me? This is a very unhealthy clinginess. ”

      Of course, someone who sees someone arguing with someone on a blog as exhibiting “unhealthy clinginess” , who thinks a comment about the ugliness of telling lies is evidence of an unheathy obsession with her personal attractiveness, is bound to become *completely unhinged* when she hears a story about a child actually breast feeding!

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      1. ““- Then what makes you share your opinion on what you do or don’t find attractive in me? This is a very unhealthy clinginess. ”

        Of course, someone who sees someone arguing with someone on a blog as exhibiting “unhealthy clinginess” , who thinks a comment about the ugliness of telling lies is evidence of an unheathy obsession with her personal attractiveness, is bound to become *completely unhinged* when she hears a story about a child actually breast feeding!”

        – Please try to concentrate and answer the question. It is a very simple question.

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  15. “““You are also severely lacking in compassion.”

    – Believe me, I have a lot of compassion towards you.”

    I was obviously talking about the children and their parents. And you are lying anyway, another unattractive trait.”

    How anyone could possibly interpret this comment as evidence of “unhealthy clinginess” is the question, Clarissa.

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      1. There is no answer, Clarissa, because the comment was about *a trait* that I, along with most people, find unattractive. You just happen to possess that trait.

        So when you constantly make all kinds of personal comments about the ugliness etc of your commenters (the ones who have disagreed with your views-the horrors!) are YOU exhibiting “unhealthy clinginess”?

        THAT is the question.

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        1. ‘There is no answer, Clarissa, because the comment was about *a trait* that I, along with most people”

          – Here she goes again about “most people.” Have the “most people” appointed you their spokesperson?

          “So when you constantly make all kinds of personal comments about the ugliness etc of your commenters (the ones who have disagreed with your views-the horrors!) are YOU exhibiting “unhealthy clinginess”?”

          – No because I’m writing in my own personal space that I created with the sole purpose of expressing whatever I feel like (see the very first post). If, however, I start going to other people’s blogs and telling people that I find them unattractive, then, yes, that would be very unhealthy and clingy.

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      2. yes, it’s all about you Clarissa and your obsession over your perceived attractiveness, and not the suffering child depicted in the OP.

        Now you are throwing a tantrum because I am not sucking up to you and deferring to you like the dictator you feel you deserve to be on your own space or some crap. Hilarious! You want a space where you can be abusive to others whenever the mood strikes you, but where you can insist that others treat you adoringly. And lo and behold you have found one- your very own blog. This is pathetic.

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        1. Yet again, you can’t answer a very simple question about your own actions. Have you been dropped on your head in infancy? Was the floor made of concrete? Because I’m seeing obvious brain damage here.

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  16. Isabel–

    “You are new to this blog aren’t you – stick around.”

    I read intermittently as my schedule allows and I tend to read what interests me as well, occasionally commenting. I don’t feel compelled to have an opinion on everything.

    “A mother who breastfeeds past what Clarissa has declared the deadline is the most vile person imaginable, according to her.”

    I didn’t interpret her story as you did/do. She didn’t use the word vile, but you’ve somehow arrived at this conclusion.

    “The way she told the story here gives it away, the mother “whips it out” “in front of everyone” etc.”

    So your issue lies in how she worded a part of the story and this is evidence that she is judging?

    “How shocking! It only reveals her own issues, not anyone elses.”

    I think a lot of people would notice this behavior and have as you suggest issues with it. Does this make them bad people in your eyes? Really I don’t get your response at all.

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    1. There are to many strange responses here to bother responding to at length, but briefly:

      ““You are new to this blog aren’t you – stick around.”

      I read intermittently as my schedule allows and I tend to read what interests me as well, occasionally commenting. I don’t feel compelled to have an opinion on everything. ”
      But you feel compelled to critique my posts even though you admit to being ignorant of the context.

      ““A mother who breastfeeds past what Clarissa has declared the deadline is the most vile person imaginable, according to her.”

      I didn’t interpret her story as you did/do. She didn’t use the word vile, but you’ve somehow arrived at this conclusion. ”

      Again, my comment was based on many many posts and condemnations. You seem a little dense here.

      ““The way she told the story here gives it away, the mother “whips it out” “in front of everyone” etc.”

      So your issue lies in how she worded a part of the story and this is evidence that she is judging? ”

      Again, how are you jumping to this conclusion, that “my issue” is with this alone? Why don’t you read a whole thread and the related posts I refer to first? What is your motivation for sticking your nose into this and defending Clarissa? never mind- I don’t want to know.

      ““How shocking! It only reveals her own issues, not anyone elses.”

      I think a lot of people would notice this behavior and have as you suggest issues with it. Does this make them bad people in your eyes? Really I don’t get your response at all.”

      Again, too stupid to respond to. We don’t even know if the kid was 1 or 4 in this pop psychology parable. Seriously, “bad people”? Sounds like you have your own issues. Good luck with that!

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      1. ” You seem a little dense here.”

        “What is your motivation for sticking your nose into this”

        “Again, too stupid to respond to. ”

        “Sounds like you have your own issues.”

        – Isabel, if you dare to insult my readers one more time, I will moderate your comments. And if you start responding to this request with “she started it first”, I will moderate you, too. You are an extremely rude and tactless person who has no understanding of how to engage in discussions with intelligent people. Maybe being moderated will teach you a lesson. People like you should sit quietly and listen and not inflict their extreme psychological issues on anybody else. Everybody who participates on this blog is light years smarter than you but you are not even intelligent enough to recognize that you are not on the same level with these people.

        Like

      2. Isabel–

        Your response says a lot about you, not about me–your need to hurl insults at people and attack them–ignorant, dense, stupid, etc. Why the need for such hostility?

        I’m disengaging. It’s pretty clear you resort to trying to bully people.

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      3. “I’m disengaging.”

        I guess you missed the part where I was ordered by her highness not to engage with *you* here in her special private space, haha. Funny how she infantilizes her adult commenters in this way. And she calls *me* rude and tactless! How funny is that?

        I wonder how Clarissa feels about bottles, or sippy cups? Should those be stopped at 6 months also? They are just breast substitutes after all. Well, at least the mother is not getting any pleasure out of it in that case.

        Like

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