The flurry of articles on Israeli soldiers posing nude and posting the photos online obscures from view the real tragedy. Namely, that young men and women are forced to kill their brothers and sisters to defend stupid nationalistic slogans invented by arm-chair politicians. What makes this situation even more bizarre, this tragic sacrifice of Jewish children is carried out in the name of making the Jews safe.
It is not surprising, though. Nationalism appeals to emotions and is incapable of withstanding an analysis from the point of view of reason and logic. People drive themselves into a frenzy of nationalistic fervor because if they stop vociferating for a second, the entire edifice of their nationalistic convictions will crack and collapse.
Clarissa's Blog 
This is what conscription gets you. Not an army full of loyal and patriotic soldiers. A fuckton of disgruntled and chaotic grunts, that give a shit about your precious values and spent most of your time dicking around. And it’s not like you haven’t earned it…
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Obligatory military service is a horrible idea. Most people have no aptitude for warfare and forcing them to serve is a travesty.
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\\ invented by arm-chair politicians
Was Zionist movement invented by them? Was Ukrainian and any other desire for independence invented by them too?
Tim, unlike you, I served in the Israeli army and your description is not accurate for it.
Btw, unlike Russian army, Israeli army doesn’t have a problem of “dedovshina” (older soldiers abusing newer ones). And, unlike what I read about rape of women in US army forces, I have never seen any abuse or discrimination against women soldiers. Of course, US and Israeli armies are very different: Israeli army protects its own country on the country’s territory, while US army protects money interests on others’ territory.
Clarissa, not every soldier is a combat soldier. In fact, most soldiers aren’t ones. If Israel needs an army to survive and you live here, using all rights of a citizen, why asking you to serve is too much?
-el
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“Was Zionist movement invented by them? Was Ukrainian and any other desire for independence invented by them too?”
– Nationalism was invented by the Enlightened European thinkers of the XVIIIth century to get people to die enthusiastically for a piece of painted fabric. So the answer is yes, absolutely.
“If Israel needs an army to survive and you live here, using all rights of a citizen, why asking you to serve is too much?”
– If people choose to give their lives / time / anything else for the piece of painted fabric, that is up to them. đŸ™‚
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Where would Israeli Jews be tomorrow with nobody in the military? Without exaggeration, there would’ve been a second Holocaust.
I didn’t serve “for the piece of painted fabric,” but since I want to live in Israel (and not in Ukraine or in the next world). If I enjoy living in 1st world country, the only one w/o antisemitism, I have to pay for it. Hopefully, in the future, it won’t be necessary, but during my lifetime it still will be.
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“Nationalism was invented by the Enlightened European thinkers of the XVIIIth century to get people to die enthusiastically for a piece of painted fabric. So the answer is yes, absolutely.”
It’s never been that hard to get people to die (enthusiastically or not) for some kind of group identity. Why is nationalism worse than clan based or any other kind of ethnic or religious identity? Scale? That’s only because it works on a larger cale than previous more narrow identities.
Rather than see it as a driver of violent history I think it’s more accurate to see it as a _response_ to rising population and social complexity, a way of difusing group loyalty beyond the narrow extended family or clan which then makes larger social organization and better societal functioning possible.
Can you give any examples of countries that have never developed national identities that are actually pleasant to live in?
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Who’s saying it’s worse? Dying for a real community is as silly as dying tor an imaginary one in my opinion.
As for the pleasure of living in Israel, I’ve had many relatives and friends move there. Based on their accounts, I believe the place is unlivable. My grandfather escaped as an elderly, very sick person, in a grueling journey that sent him to an earlier grave than what should have been. The place was that horrible.
Of course, nobody can escape nation-states these days. But one can choose whether one is willing to generate a personal, deeply emotional attachment to nationalistic dreams – and pay the price – or not. Have you seen people on stadiums, clutching their hands to their hearts and singing the anthem? They obviously get something out of that activity. But the question is, what is the price they will pay for it?
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” Have you seen people on stadiums, clutching their hands to their hearts and singing the anthem? They obviously get something out of that activity. But the question is, what is the price they will pay for it?”
And this is why I get my melding-in-a-crowd jollies at metal shows. Too silly a collective identity to do anything about except buy t-shirts and go to shows. And moshpits are *way* more fun than clutching my hand to my heart and singing the anthem on a stadium.
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“And this is why I get my melding-in-a-crowd jollies at metal shows. Too silly a collective identity to do anything about except buy t-shirts and go to shows.’
– And that’s an extremely healthy alternative. This is precisely what I’m talking about: if the only price you pay for this feeling of being one with a crowd is the price of admission ticket, then you are smart. If, however, you hand over your brain to be fully laundered and your life to be disposed of, then. . . not that smart, sorry.
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Btw, how should Israeli Jews make themselves safe w/o immigrating to US (illegally & being sent back, but anyway)? Realistically, I mean. Not “go all to US” “plan”.
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I could send you another blurb, a masochistic fantasy some guy sent to me called “war and feminism”
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Here’s a part:
The girl must have been very intelligent, though. She said she liked it, but I shouldn’t, but I couldn’t ‘not like’ what I saw. That much sexual power to a woman, this is incredible, and the power of her destruction was, I don’t know, strange.
Me, being that young, I had opened my zipper. My eyes went up, I went like ‘Aaah!’ and smiled like a fool feeling wonderfulness going down my spine. ‘I am good’ I said still being dizzy.I fell backwards in the grass, and before I knew it she had pulled a 9 mm on me. My heart was pounding in my throat, both being excited and scared as hell to lose my life. A Dutch girl who had followed us, shouted at her asking to put away her gun.
Mirma, the 17 yo, was under age at the time, so I forgave her mistakes.
She nicely cooperated and didn’t ‘do’ any more men afterwards, she had done 414 guys, the last 3 included. I never told any other women, because they were very jealous of her figure.
I never heard or seen her after the war. She probably had a girl friend later. She didn’t really like male stuff, so that was ok.
Anyway, the world has been turning every since, accept for those many guys, but hey, women are the stronger sex, not men…
Greetz
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Sounds very weird, I am not sure I understand what is happening or the context.
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Yes, well I cut out the more graphic parts.
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You awaken some deeply insecure feelings in these folks. đŸ™‚
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What I have to say is not really difficult to understand, but people insist on interpreting it in a partisan way.
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These are kids who should be studying and enjoying spare time with friends, sports, films and concerts. Yes, the photos were not very dignified, but at 17-18, people act out and have fun. Or, they rebel once it hits them that the society they live in is using their lives carelessly.
Yes, the tragedy is that they are victims of nationalism, power politics and interests beyond their control.
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I agree completely.
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