Forced Abortion

This is called eugenics and it’s really creepy:

Doctors ask judge to let them carry out an abortion on a mentally-ill woman who is 22 weeks pregnant – even though it is against her religion

Specialists caring for the woman, who is in her 20s and diagnosed with a ‘moderately severe’ learning disorder and a mood disorder, say a termination is in her best interests.

But the woman’s mother, a member of the Nigerian Igbo community, disagrees.

She said abortion is against her Roman Catholic religious beliefs and her cultural beliefs, and added she could care for the baby.

Bosses at the NHS trust, responsible for the woman’s care, have asked Mrs Justice Lieven to decide what is in the woman’s best interests.

It’s also racist. What, she’s too dumb and crazy to give birth? It doesn’t make this plan any more disgusting that it’s justified as concern for the woman.

Is she also going to be sterilized against her will? Where have we heard about these things before?

This comes on the heels of the terrifying case of a teenager who was euthanized because she was depressed. We keep hearing about the need to fight the stigma of mental illness. Forget stigma. We are at the stage of forced abortions and euthanasia.

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17 thoughts on “Forced Abortion”

  1. Yeah, it’s eugenics on “mentally-ill inferiors.”

    In Western Europe.

    In the Twenty-first Century.

    And it’s legal — and nobody seems to even notice or care, except the involved family and that family’s paid legal counsel.

    !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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    1. Everybody is going on about how some inane comments by Biden are racist but nobody cares about this. I couldn’t care less about Biden but it’s that same hypocrisy again.

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  2. The Dutch teenager didn’t die as a result of euthanasia. She has previously requested it and was denied. Here’s the Snopes article on that piece of news.

    She died as a result of refusing to eat. Her doctors and parents have agreed not to force-feed her. You might say there is no difference: in both cases the doctors and parents haven’t forced her to stay alive.

    I struggle with depression myself. I know what you’ve said about that and medication before. I could go into details on how I started taking medication for it back when I was in university. I didn’t one day just go to the doctor and ask for it.

    My mom, who emigrated from Ukraine in her 40s, had a really hard time in Canada. Her English wasn’t good and her degree from Ukraine was completely useless. My parents’ marriage finally fell apart, my dad couldn’t find work and we lived off the money from selling our apartment in Kiev that was dwindling fast. My mom, as she told me later, felt completely worthless and unneeded at the time. She went to work cleaning houses.

    She was not a pleasant person to be around. Her mental state manifested as outward anger. Eventually she started taking an anti-depressant (no, she didn’t go to the doctor and ask for it). I was in grade 12 then and our relationship radically transformed from the awful one we had. She went to a community college to study Early Childhood Education, then did a post-grad program on kids with special needs, and now works with children, parents, and kindergarten teachers and feels valued.

    You are completely ignorant about depression. I think you look down on it so much because it makes you feel strong – you’re not like those weak people who need to resort to chemicals. Congratulations.

    I’m strong, too. I’ve been through plenty of traumas. I couldn’t use my strength to stop having panic attacks almost daily for 3 months about something I had absolutely no control over.

    About the Dutch teenager, Noa Porthoven: yes, her brain was not fully mature and there was a chance that she might have improved later. What if she didn’t? Would the fact that she had to continue to suffer for years just be not that big a deal? How many years of suffering are acceptable for one year of normality? If she experiences an improvement at 60 after being involuntarily hospitalized, force-fed, and surviving multiple suicide attempts over the previous decades, would it all have been worth it?

    This article on abortion is from a tabloid, the Daily Mail. As tabloids do, they focus on controversial stories and generate outrage for clicks. Yes, that situation is arguably eugenics. I will wait to see more than one such story every once in a while before I start worrying about the developed countries lapsing back into forcibly sterilizing people like they did in the first half of the 20th century.

    The woman in the article is considered to lack mental capacity to make decisions. By definition, her pregnancy can only be the result of a rape. The article doesn’t even mention that. If they cared about the woman’s well-being as much as about clicks, they would inquire whether the authorities were looking for the rapist and either report on that or be outraged on her behalf if nothing is being done.

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    1. I’m very sorry you had these horrible experiences. Very, very sorry.

      But there’s no need to ascribe to me weird beliefs I don’t hold. Trying to overcome depression with “strength” or willpower is ridiculous. I would not recommend that method to anybody because it would make them worse. Probably a lot worse.

      I’m not going to list all I know about trauma, anxiety, and depression. But I will say that I have and am addressing these issues in my life with the help of a highly qualified, trained mental health specialist. I’ve been in his care for 7 years with great results. He’s using a non-medicinal approach. My husband, who experienced extreme physical and emotional abuse, is seeking help from a different specialist in the same field.

      Neither of us is trying to “power through” our issues with strength. That would be like trying to grow back an amputated leg with the force of your mind.

      I don’t think anybody will be terribly hurt if on my small blog I let people know that Western medicine has found ways to treat these issues very successfully without using medication. There has been at least a dozen people over the years who wrote to me to say that they were inspired by my example to seek help and are very happy with the results.

      The idea of framing mental health issues as having anything to do with weakness or strength is deeply alien to me. What’s next, accusing me of saying that addicts are addicted because they don’t have enough willpower to stop? Or that short people are to blame for not making themselves taller by using willpower?

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      1. A propos of the 7 years, to avoid misleading people I need to clarify that I’m not in active therapy any more. It’s more like keeping in touch to see that everything stays on course. I don’t want anybody to get freaked out unnecessarily about this process. It’s like going to the dentist or an Ob-GYN for checkups, that kind of thing.

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    2. “in both cases the doctors and parents haven’t forced her to stay alive”

      That’s the whole point, those who should have been looking out for her long term interests preferred her to be dead than in treatment, the parents and doctors in that case were completely, consciously evil.

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      1. The parents who are willing to let their teenager die – it’s really not surprising she was depressed with this sort of parents. Usually, even really shitty parents would resist the idea of doing away with the kid altogether. A normal parent, scours the earth and the moon looking for help. And goes into treatment him or herself to figure out how they messed up their kid so badly. They don’t just stand by and let her die. It’s unthinkable!

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        1. She has tried many kinds of treatment. She and her parents have requested electroshock therapy and were denied because she was considered too young.

          When I read what you have to say about her and her parents, I see virtue-signaling. They’re horrible parents (and you would behave very differently in their situation). Do you even care about her quality of life? If she’s forced to stay alive and is suffering, feels no joy from life, and wishes she were dead, does that not matter at all as long as her parents get to be the hero parents taking care of a mentally-ill child? I don’t see how that is not selfish.

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          1. As we have already seen in the previous comments, on this particular issue you tend to see things that are not there. I’m sensitive to shitty parents not because I’m a fantastic one. It can very easily be deduced from everything I’ve said, so I won’t be repeating it.

            And using electroshock as an example that her parents care, really? Did they try to lash her with belts to see if that makes her better?

            I do not believe that depressed people with shitty parents should be exterminated. I’ll let you guess why I feel so strongly on the subject.

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            1. It’s also interesting how you assume that a mentally unstable adult woman can’t consent to sex but a mentally unstable child can consent to death.

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            2. I used an outdated term with a loaded history behind it. I meant ECT – electroconvulsive therapy. Here’s a Mayo Clinic link – it is often a measure of last resort, used for severe depression, particularly when accompanied by detachment from reality (psychosis), a desire to commit suicide or refusal to eat; for treatment-resistant depression, a severe depression that doesn’t improve with medications or other treatments.

              Another link from American Psychiatric Association: “ECT’s effectiveness in treating severe mental illnesses is recognized by the American Psychiatric Association, the American Medical Association, the National Institute of Mental Health, and similar organizations in Canada, Great Britain and many other countries.”

              We all interpret things we see in different ways. I could also say you see things that are not there when you say that someone who believes that individual Hispanic migrants might be better off living in the shadow economy in the USA than killed in their home countries while they wait for things to improve only wants cheap maids. Or when you claim that someone who unwisely went into too much debt for an education would just as easily go into debt to buy a Lamborghini.

              You’re not answering my question. If you’re forcing someone with major untreatable depression who is suffering and feels no joy from life to stay alive by any means possible, is that totally fine? Of course you want to avoid the possibility of letting them die if they could have gotten better. Do you not want to avoid the possibility of inflicting that torture on them for decades if they never get better? Yes, you can’t reverse death. You also can’t reverse decades of misery.

              For the record, I agree that they should have intervened and waited until she was 18. If nothing else helped, she would have then gained access to ECT, which might have made a difference.

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              1. Depression didn’t spring up fifteen minutes ago. It existed always. Throughout history, different societies found different ways to treat it under all sorts of names.

                Then some drug companies came up with some medications that served no real purpose. They had to market those medications, so they came up with a marketing plan. It consisted of convincing people that depression, anxiety and a host of other conditions are produced by defective (chemically unbalanced) brains. There is no science behind the idea that there are millions of people with defective brains who are doomed to perpetual agony. It’s not real. It’s a commercial jingle.

                There is no decades-long torture that batters people from teenage years to retirement and that can only be stopped by offing them. Even if you believe in the defective brain theory, new treatments are invented all the time, human brain changes, especially until one is 25. Terminal cancer patients, quadriplegics, AIDS victims live for decades and have productive lives. Civilized society looks for ways to keep them alive, not to discard them because they are sick.

                Depression, anxiety, drug addiction, alcoholism are all very treatable and curable. I have a friend who was diagnosed with terminal lung cancer at 47. That’s incurable. And you know what? She tried medication that her doctor warned her was not effective for her type of cancer but suddenly it started working. Her tumors shrank! She’s still incurable but she’s gotten years of life out of it. And in those years, we are hoping for new cures to be invented. I know another woman who was given 6 months to live with her very aggressive cancer 25 years ago. And you know what? She’s still very much alive. Things change, medicine evolves. We don’t throw disabled people off a cliff to spare them suffering.

                What Hispanic immigrants and Lamborghinis have to do with any of it, I don’t know. I do know that the human body is a very complex organism that is capable of very unexpected and often inexplicable things. The only really irreparable thing is death.

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  3. “Neither of us is trying to “power through” our issues with strength. That would be like trying to grow back an amputated leg with the force of your mind.”

    -I wish I had heard this when I was in my last major depressive episode. Recovery was very slow and often frustrating, and that’s an excellent metaphor.

    On the plus side, while I still haven’t found a therapist, I have found a medication that keeps me balanced. Not for everyone, I know, but it helps me a lot.

    “The idea of framing mental health issues as having anything to do with weakness or strength is deeply alien to me. What’s next, accusing me of saying that addicts are addicted because they don’t have enough willpower to stop? Or that short people are to blame for not making themselves taller by using willpower?”

    -Society in the US has sort of ingrained in people’s minds the image of the depressed person as someone who can just “snap out of it.” Because if you’re sad, your mood can change. These people don’t get that depression is a nothingness, not a sadness. So I think this is where it comes from — if you’re always sad, there must be something you’re doing to make yourself sad. Which makes you “weak” when you can’t just “be happy.” It’s really, truly awful on the person who has depression, because it just isolates them more.

    As far as addiction goes, that’s exactly how AA works. If you can’t make yourself stop completely, you’re giving in to weakness or some fault of your own. And surprisingly, AA and similar organizations have persisted in the US, despite numerous studies that say other methods work far better. (AA has an estimated success rate of about 10%).

    Man, if I could will myself to be taller, that would be cool. For a little while. I kind of enjoy climbing on counters to get into the cupboards.

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    1. On the other hand, the idea that depressed people have broken (or chemically imbalanced) brains, is also quote bizarre, especially since there is no proof for the theory. It’s circular reasoning: if you are depressed, your brain must be imbalanced. If it’s imbalanced, you are depressed. All I’m saying is that there are many people who are depressed because of trauma. There is nothing wrong with their brains but they are traumatized. I recently met a woman who lost her husband in a tragic accident. She’s deeply depressed. But all the advice she’s getting is based on the imperfect brain theory. That her brain got imperfect only after her husband died, doesn’t seem to matter.

      And yes, AA, oh goodness. I mean, whatever helps is good but the method is quite barbaric.

      I’m glad you are getting better! It’s slow and painful but it’s possible. You’ll absolutely get out of the darkness.

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      1. Oh, yes. I completely agree. We know that depression changes the chemistry of the brain, and we know there are medications that can help with this. But if your depression is trauma-related, medication can’t do much, because you still need to deal with the trauma. Some people need it to pull them back from the edge, so they can get to a place where they can receive non-medicinal treatment. But those people are relatively few.

        I feel like since the symptoms of depression are so similar in so many people, it’s caused this laziness in doctors who just want to throw a pill at the problem and call it fixed. Which is a problem, because you need to go for the source, not just treat the symptoms. I’m one of the people who actually has a chemical imbalance, and medication has worked wonders for me. Other people benefit entirely from non-medicinal treatments. What’s happening to your acquaintance sucks. It’s an example of how flawed the system is, and how little the medical world seems to actually recognize the different types of depression — let alone the facts that they require different kinds of treatment.

        It occurs to me that I found your blog when I was at the start of my first depressive episode (also when it was on Blogger, which feels like another lifetime ago). It feels far less than eight years.

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        1. It’s really great that you have supportive parents who helped you through it and that you found treatment that works. Really, really great.

          My friend with terminal cancer is really badly depressed. And who wouldn’t be with this diagnosis? But nobody is offering anything but medication for it and it stopped working, even at the highest dosage. I spent a day with her a couple of weeks ago (we live in different countries), got her out of the house, and did make her feel better. But I’m obviously not a trained specialist. It took everything I had and I left with the beginnings of a depressive episode stirring up in me. I have no idea what the solution is because she needs someone to do this for her every day but for a non-specialist it’s simply impossible. It’s a very bad situation.

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