Kenosha Victims

One of the guys killed in Kenosha was a convicted pedophile and the other was a habitual domestic abuser. This doesn’t mean they deserve to die. I don’t want anybody to die. The issue is what these riots are about and who shows up to participate in them. This isn’t political at all. Vapid political blabber gives cover to violent criminal types to run around destroying people and things and feel good about it b

39 thoughts on “Kenosha Victims”

  1. This is to be expected. You can’t be a decent, law abiding person and burn and loot on behalf of career criminals resting arrest. The protesters know it could be them being shot while resisting arrest. (Of course, there are also some dumb but honest people in the protests who want to belong, but they will get bored soon).


  2. Not to mention they started a riot over a guy who was wanted for raping a 14-year-old, and the police had been called because he showed up at the home of a woman who had a restraining order against him.


      1. “Still not a reason to kill him, though.”

        Not sure what you are trying to say. Is there any known evidence that the police targeted this individual with the intent of murdering him? If not, then why entertain at this stage the possibility/likelihood of police malfeasance? Oh, because Black Lives Matter, and their ruling elite megaphones, say it is so because it fits their narrative of systemic racism and is to their political and financial advantage (as in follow the $$$)?


          1. “people like that”

            People who fight with the police rather than immediately and peacefully surrendering?

            “cops should not kill”

            Again, has there been any evidence at all that the police intended to kill this individual? Remember the case of George Floyd when it was alleged far and wide/up and down, without evidence but for political and financial gain$$$, that he was the victim of a racially-motivated execution when it turns out that the proximate cause of death was a drug overdose.


      2. He isn’t dead.

        There’s no reason to kill anybody but people who try to pull a knife on police can’t possibly expect to emerge unharmed. Especially when they have history of violent assault.


  3. Thread from NYT here. The main takeaway is that Rittenhouse didn’t fire first. It seems like he acted in self-defense.


  4. Of course, this boy shouldn’t have been there AT ALL. Many right wing people I follow are holding him up as a positive example, even saying “we need more Kyle Rittenhouses.” These people should be deeply ashamed of themselves. No, we should NOT encourage teenage boys to be out among rioters at night. Even when you’re against the rioters, you inadvertently become part of the problem. The presence of an armed pro-cop faction fighting against rioters is about as helpful as gang turf wars. Stay at home.


    1. And this is all assuming the very best of Rittenhouse, that he had positive intentions and got caught up in an unfortunate situation. It’s still not entirely clear what happened; I’ve never regretted waiting a few days to let more information emerge.


    2. “Of course, this boy shouldn’t have been there AT ALL.”

      Agree 100%. If the responsible authorities had done their job and shut down this riot before it began by mobilizing overwhelming force to protect lives and property, this incident wouldn’t/couldn’t have happened.

      Oh, but that was the point… the authorities are recklessly promoting all this chaos on the streets for political reasons.

      Liked by 3 people

      1. Yes. The right wing response (and I think this may have been Tucker Carlson’s response) should be “the police should do their job and shut down the riots so untrained citizens don’t get the idea they should go out and be a hero,” not “hooray, we need MORE hero vigilantes.”


        1. Back where I’m from in the 1990s the authorities stepped back, there wasn’t anything anybody can meaningfully call a government, and the vacuum was filled with groups of armed men, mowing each other down. There wasn’t any ideological pretext but they are just as dead. I definitely don’t want to see this again.

          Liked by 1 person

        1. They were trying for a US color revolution. Now that it’s becoming clear that won’t work, and the poll numbers are being affected, they’ll try to end it. Then, it’ll be fun watching the news try to blame Trump for the destruction while simultaneously pretending the riots didn’t happen.


          1. Well, Trump is the President, and he has been fueling the flames. The country was doing much better before he became President. Crime was the lowest it had been in decades and the economy was doing great. Now, in the 3 1/2 yrs Trump has been in it’s all gone to hell, except for the billionaires (who do well regardless)


    3. Absolutely. I agree completely. There’s an enormous fail on the part of his parents. This is a very young boy. He shouldn’t be crossing state lines with a rifle to play a hero in a violent situation. It was bound to end terribly badly. I absolutely blame these parents.


      1. Yes, 100% where are this kid’s parents?

        But also, when this one popped up in the news, and he seemed to have answered the call of something styling itself a “militia”… this was the first time I felt afraid about the riots– the first stirrings of organized, armed opposition. Poorly organized, badly thought out, and extremely amateur, sure, but if the rioting continues, that will change quickly. US culture has no proper rites of initiation into manhood, and there are so many young men who desperately want to be initiated. Action! Adventure! Heroism! The military does a good job of knocking some sense into them, and rejects the really unsuitable ones. “Take Back Minneapolis” on FB isn’t going to be so picky.

        If the various authorities who’ve been encouraging this don’t end it soon, it’ll be a bloodbath.

        Liked by 1 person

        1. Their only hope right now is for several dozen Kyles. Then they’ll blame the entire thing on “white supremacists” and pose as victims for all eternity.


    4. Someone, or some force, will eventually have to put a stop to the riots, whether it is the government or armed citizens, it has to stop. If it doesn’t stop, or others don’t want it to stop, then we are no longer living in a nation of laws but in a “state of nature”. But it has to end. If, as a law-abiding American citizen, I can no longer expect the government to protect my life and private property, or respect my right to do it, it means that something has gone terribly wrong in this country. and we might be heading towards something far worse….

      Liked by 1 person

      1. I agree, but that force will have to be the government. A rag tag group of armed citizens does not have the strength or competence to act effectively. When right wing militias and Antifa fight in the street, it’s akin to gang warfare; it helps nothing.

        In this particular instance I say “akin” because it seems that the militia may have been mostly decent people with good intentions. In many instances, the right wingers are just a right wing version of Antifa, and in these instances I’d consider it to actually be gang warfare; that’s what these groups are, they’re gangs.


        1. “The government” seems to be pretty slow on the draw. What’s a reasonable amount of time for people in, say, Kenosha, or Minneapolis, or Portland, to wait?


          1. I’m not saying the government hasn’t failed. I’m just saying people deciding to step in are more likely to make things worse than better, especially if these people are untrained teenage boys. But it would perhaps be helpful to see people doing this as a symptom of government’s failures, in this instance. It’s undeniable that the police have not been doing enough anywhere in America during these riots. As long as they continue to do nothing, misguided fools will attempt to do their job for them.


            1. // It’s undeniable that the police have not been doing enough anywhere in America during these riots. As long as they continue to do nothing, misguided fools will attempt to do their job for them.

              I am getting so confused since it seems differently politically leaning people see different things. For instance, see this part of the comment from Rod’s blog:

              “The protests in my own city of Portland were winding down naturally when Trump sent federal troops in the most inflammatory way possible to “help”. So instead, the protests have gone on re-invigorated until now, and a man died in one of them last night. Trump will go to Kenosha, even as the officials there are begging him not to, and more will probably die as a result of this similarly inflammatory action. None of it needed to happen – he could have sat out of it and offered his sympathies/opinions from afar, or appointed competent men to handle restoring public order together with local officials, instead of sycophantic morons like Chad Wolf. His hands are now soaked in the blood of his own followers instead.”

              Does anyone know what was the practical effect of federal troops? How have they contributed?


              1. Obama sent in federal troops pretty early on to Ferguson and nobody claimed it “inflamed tensions” or claimed Obama had blood on his hands. And Portland has been having outbreaks of Antifa vs. Patriot Prayer violence for years now; was that all Trump’s fault too? It’s an ongoing problem, and one that doesn’t even necessarily have to be solved with (nor was caused by) federal troops. Ted Wheeler constantly tells the police to stand back at times when they really need to be intervening; if he simply let the police actually do what they need to do, there’s a good chance that would be enough.


              2. Did you see the video where rioters occupied Wheeler’s apartment? The guy is beyond pathetic. And I have no doubt he will be elected again.


              3. Even when I was a solid Democrat, I was firmly anti-Wheeler and would’ve supported any Republican over him. I think at this point most of the sane people will be leaving Portland though.


              4. Blaming the riots on Trump is one of the worst cases of TDS I’ve ever seen.

                The federal troops left because authorities in Portland begged she promised they were going to handle it. And then, of course, they didn’t.

                The comment you quote is so cynical that one wonders how it’s possible for a person to voice such ideas. But this is where we are. The rioters are openly threatening to murder people because they are “inflamed” by the president’s travel schedule. And many people nod wisely along to this argument.


              5. “a man died in one of them” — makes it sound like he tripped over a curb and hit his head! WTF?

                That’s the sort of thing that rapists and murderers say in interviews: “I interfered with her” “he got hurt”. That’s some interesting verbal gymnastics, there.

                The man was hunted down and executed in cold blood.


            2. This is exactly what happens when, as Phillip Bobbitt warned, the state loses its monopoly on violence. Violence becomes dispersed in society and, yes, it’s a very bad thing. This is what the disempowerment of the nation-state looks like in practice.


  5. I’m not for lynchings, vigilantism, extra-judicial killings of any sort. That’s the point. The 2 people killed over the weekend here were petty criminals. It doesn’t mean police should have opened fire on one (someone had made a mental health call) and a private citizen on another (he was begging).

    Liked by 1 person

  6. Clarissa, remember you asked re Floyd Footage “What they were trying to achieve by struggling with a person who had no control over his faculties is a mystery” ?

    Now I discovered a possible reason. Have you known that:

    Not Trained to Not Kill
    Most states neglect ordering police to learn de-escalation tactics to avoid shootings
    In 34 states, training decisions are left to local agencies. Most, though, conduct no, or very little, de-escalation training. Chiefs cite cost, lack of staff, and a belief that the training isn’t needed.


    Minimizing Mental Fitness
    Minneapolis police recruits get less psychological testing than they used to
    The protocol is less rigorous than best practices nationally and the evaluator lacked the proper license. Police leaders are moving to replace him for another reason: They believe he screened out too many minority candidates.

    This site is really good in general and has some articles on how police recruits are tested and trained, child literacy and other topics.


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