Texas Lawsuit

I’m very glad that Texas is suing Pennsylvania and other states in the Supreme Court for violating the Constitution and changing election rules without going through the legislature.

Irrespective of anyone’s support for any specific candidate, it’s extremely disturbing that somebody should be able to decide to introduce massive changes into the voting rules and impose that without going through the legislature.

That more people aren’t appalled by what PA and Co did and aren’t excited about the lawsuit shows that people think that the ends justify the means. And that’s not only an immoral but a dangerous belief.

44 thoughts on “Texas Lawsuit”

  1. I was so relieved to see FL jump on that lawsuit as well! We were the laughingstock of the nation after the 2000 election, and it took us forever to fix that problem, but WE DID IT. Corrupt election officials went to jail. They were replaced. This year’s election went off without a hitch, and for once, we on the Gulf side of the state didn’t have the Atlantic side trying to outnumber us with fake voters. And after all that effort to clean up our own house, we got steamrolled on a national level by the mafia-like DNC machines in Philly, Detroit, etc. turning it up to 11 to make sure their guy won.

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  2. “Irrespective of anyone’s support for any specific candidate, it’s extremely disturbing that somebody should be able to decide to introduce massive changes into the voting rules and impose that without going through the legislature.”

    What massive changes were introduced? Allowing vote by mail?

    Seems to me like a desperate attempt at slowing the inevitable. Trumps fraud claims have completely failed everywhere in the courts, his own Attorney General says he won’t investigate because he did not find any evidence of fraud.

    This case will be shut down by the Supreme Court so fast you won’t see it coming. Just as they have already shut down the Pennsylvania case.

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    1. Yes, allowing ballots to be dumped God knows where and then be dragged back from also God knows where.

      Please ask yourself if you would feel exactly the same about the issue if these changes were introduced by Trump through an executive order, say, in Illinois, and then he suddenly won the state. Would you feel exactly the same?

      I don’t want casuistry. I want a simple answer. Yes or no. Imagine this situation. Biden is predictably winning Illinois, the count gets stopped for the night. You go to bed. In the middle of the night, the count mysteriously resumes and finds 130,000 ballots 100% of which are for Trump. Trump wins Illinois.

      Would you feel exactly the same about the situation? Look deep inside and tell me.

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      1. Trump was never predicted to win PA nor any of the states in question other than probably Georgia. If your scenario played like that in Alabama, then yeah, I would think something is off.

        To answer your question YES. If after many investigations, court cases, and possibly the most scrutinized election ever, and still no evidence of fraud was found to substantiate fraud claims, then yes I would totally accept Trump’s win.

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        1. That wasn’t my question, though. If there was evidence that aliens descended from another galaxy, etc, etc, then of course I would….

          The question was if it’s OK to change election laws by executive fiat on the eve of the election.

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          1. I really don’t know Clarissa. Seems to me that so many states made changes to their election procedure, I don’t have the bandwidth to check every state and see which changes are so problematic. That’s why I asked if this was about voting by mail, or if there is anything particularly troubling that I’m missing, because I really am not seeing it.

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            1. The point is that the Constitution specifies that these changes – whatever they are – have to go through the legislature and can’t be adopted executively. That’s what’s being litigated in SCOTUS.

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              1. I think nearly every state allows vote by mail through their state laws, so I don’t see what the problem is. This is why I am asking what specifically is the problem, is it vote by mail?

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              2. You are confusing absentee ballots that need to be specifically requested by specific individuals with ballot dumps of ballots that were never requested and that allow for ballot harvesting.

                But again, that doesn’t matter. What is being litigated is that major changes were introduced into the voting process through the executive branch and bypassing the legislature. The Constitution specifically prohibits that. If you want to extend the receipt of ballots by 5 days and send them out to everybody, no questions asked, go through the legislature. The pandemic hit in February. There was time enough to take the process through the legislature. But it wasn’t. This is unconstitutional.

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              3. “This is why I am asking what specifically is the problem, is it vote by mail?”

                No, it’s stuffing ballot boxes via vote by mail. (Your question had to be tongue-in-cheek – no one who has a pulse along with access to the internet could be that naive)

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              4. I was trying to sign up my kid to visit the local splash pad in the summer. I needed two forms of ID including a driver’s license and a complicated questionnaire that a friend of mine without a PhD didn’t manage to fill out. But voting should have zero controls? Absolutely none?

                I still receive mail at my address for the previous owners who moved out of state in 2014. I receive mail from the Secretary of State addressed to these people. The state believes that they are still living in my house. How can it possibly be legal to send out ballots in their name and then accept them as valid? I’m from a third-world country and even there we don’t do this.

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              5. Imagine how many people changed their residence but didn’t bother to go to the DMV to change the address officially. People avoid going to the DMV as much as possible. I drove for 4 years with a license registered to my old address. How can it possibly be a minor thing to start sending ballots to these addresses without finding out who actually lives there?

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              6. “I still receive mail at my address for the previous owners who moved out of state in 2014. I receive mail from the Secretary of State addressed to these people. The state believes that they are still living in my house. How can it possibly be legal to send out ballots in their name and then accept them as valid? I’m from a third-world country and even there we don’t do this.”

                The states that did this are not the ones being sued:

                “Reuters found this number by adding up the latest available voter registration statistics for Colorado ( here ); Hawaii, ( here ); Oregon ( here ); Utah ( here ); Washington ( here ); California ( here ); Washington, D.C ( here ); Nevada ( here ); New Jersey ( here ); and Vermont ( here ). ”
                https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-factcheck-80-million-unsolicited-ball/fact-check-clarifying-trumps-80-million-unsolicited-ballots-claim-idUSKBN2622SZ

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              7. “Imagine how many people changed their residence but didn’t bother to go to the DMV to change the address officially. People avoid going to the DMV as much as possible. I drove for 4 years with a license registered to my old address. How can it possibly be a minor thing to start sending ballots to these addresses without finding out who actually lives there?”

                Once again, the states that did this are not the ones that Texas is suing. So why isn’t Texas going after Colorado, Hawaii, Oregon, Utah, Washington, California, Washington, D.C, Nevada, New Jersey, and Vermont?

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            2. “major changes”

              Allowing extra days for voting and making it easier for people to vote by mail does not count as a “major change” to me.

              But even if it was, this will never fly in the Supreme Court, because if they allow this then they will have to allow California and New York suing Texas for any minor detail that they consider “unconstitutional.”

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              1. How can it be minor to completely subvert any process of ensuring that the ballots submitted are legitimate? The difference between people specifically requesting an absentee ballot and millions of ballots being sent out into the unknown is enormous. The entire system of control over who is actually voting has been removed.

                If Texas does something like this to favor Republican candidates, then absolutely California should sue its ass off.

                If removing all control over who is voting is minor, then what would constitute a non-minor change?

                It’s also interesting why these changes were introduced specifically in the states that gave Trump the victory in 2016. Illinois, for instance, didn’t bother. What might be the reason for that?

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              2. “Allowing extra days for voting and making it easier for people to vote by mail does not count as a ‘major change’ to me.”

                Because the end justifies the means. Because Orange Man Bad. Because it’s OK for people to vote for candidates other than my own as long as the rules ensure that my side wins. Because the votes of fascist enablers shouldn’t be counted anyway. Because you all totally suck… etc. etc.

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    2. @ ed: according to my understanding, Trump filing cases that are quickly thrown out is intended to allow appeal to a higher court, faster.

      Also, in terms of persuasion, it looks like the laundry list tactic, which is where the persuader just wants to allege many things one after the other in a big list. If there is proof that those things are true, then it doesn’t matter what happens in any later lawsuit, since anyone hearing a spokesperson go through the laundry list already forms the opinion that the persuader wanted them to.

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      1. @ed: They ignored state and federal laws, and therefore violated the Constitution, which happens to be the oldest in the world btw. Besides the mail-in ballots that Clarissa mentioned, they also extended the dates of accepting ballots. This is not about fraud, but about the Constitution and the Republic, of which Americans should be protective.

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        1. Didn’t many states make changes to their voting procedures due to the pandemic? I think some of you are neglecting to consider there is a pandemic going on and that may have precipitated changes. But I don’t see “massive” changes to voting procedures here. Just making it easier to vote by mail and allowing extra days due to the increasing mail voting makes total sense to me in a pandemic.

          You’re right that this is not about fraud at this point, that has totally failed in the courts and everywhere else. I think this is about money, just as everything in politics. Keeping people riled up, disgruntled, and angry is making politicians A LOT of money right now.

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              1. @ed: Dems have been complaining of Russian interference in the 2016 election for years now. However, they are OK with Chinese/Iranian interference and vote counting in other countries. Hypocritical much? The latter goes back to the question Clarissa posted originally that is “would you have been OK if the same happening now favored Trump and not Biden”? We know the answer as per the Russian hoax and Shalwell’s crying for years. Nonetheless, TX is arguing about the Constitution and not the fraud.

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            1. And if it is OK to go get tested for corona and stand in line for that every week as some of our employers require us to do, it is OK to go to polls in person once.

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              1. “it is OK to go to polls in person once”

                Appealing to democratic norms or election rules is useless here.

                Given the many, many serious questions about the way the election was conducted, in previous elections one could reasonably expect the victorious side would want to go out of its way to prove to the doubters that their questions can be satisfactorily answered and the result legitimized.

                But the victorious don’t care about democracy – they’re like the Italians who joined Mussolini’s March on Rome, all that matters in the end is that their guy is in power. It’s for the greater good after all. The press can be relied upon to launch a propaganda campaign to legitimize the results and the media/social media establishment has begun to censor openly dissenting voices. Rather than proving that the result wasn’t fixed, they’re placing the onus on you to provide proof that it was fixed while all the furiously acting to discredit and silence anyone who dares open their mouth to describe the Emperor’s extreme lack of clothing.

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            1. ““On the states where these ballots are sent automatically, those were state-legislated decisions to make those policies,” Commissioner Hovland said, adding that “those states have implemented security measures on their respective mail-in processes.””
              https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-factcheck-80-million-unsolicited-ball/fact-check-clarifying-trumps-80-million-unsolicited-ballots-claim-idUSKBN2622SZ

              Everything I’m reading regarding this topic says these measures were legislated properly, along with security checks to ensure voter fraud did not happen; which you have acknowledge did not happen.

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          1. “Didn’t many states make changes to their voting procedures due to the pandemic? I think some of you are neglecting to consider there is a pandemic going on and that may have precipitated changes.”

            That may be so, but if the legislature did not adjust election procedures legally to accommodate for the pandemic, then no matter the justification, the election is illegal.

            In addition to that, sometimes legislation is written in a way that doesn’t accommodate for various things or is inflexible, leading to a failure. It seems to me that many people kind of assume that laws and regulations always make sense or are in some way always workable, when that isn’t the case at all. Sometimes you get a failure and have to work it out manually, often with a lot of arguing and/or unhappiness.

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        2. The signature verification process was thrown away, too.

          And all of a sudden the same people who spent years wailing about how a few FB posts posted by Russian bot farms changed the results of the 2016 election don’t care in the least.

          It’s pure partisanship and I don’t respect partisanship.

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        3. Not to mention, PA apparently adopted use of Dominion’s voting machines without going through the legislature like they were supposed to. It’s minor compared to the rest, but it’s there.

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  3. To an observer in Europe like me, and one from a country that is not noted for transparency or lack of corruption, the whole US election system looks mind-bogglingly absurd. It is simply a disgrace and you don’t have to be a sleuth to smell a rat a hundred miles off.
    What is so bad about asking electors for valid ID? Why are they not on the electoral roll? How come ballots may be sent to addresses that have other people living at them?
    As Clarissa points out, even in Third-world countries they are better at elections. In my country you can only vote on one day, between 7 am and 10 pm, you need to be registered as a voter on the electoral roll of the locality where you are officially registered as living, which gives you the right to an electoral card which you show together with your valid ID to the electoral officer at the polling station BEFORE you enter the booth. No electoral card: you don’t get to vote; no valid ID: you don’t get to vote.
    It is your duty as a citizen to get valid ID and a valid electoral card in time for the elections as the State is not your babysitter, though if you do not have a valid electoral card you may still get one on the day provided you are registered on the electoral roll and are prepared to go to the central electoral office of the municipality where you are officially registered as living, though you still need valid ID to get an electoral card, and valid ID is NOT issued on the day. The ballot papers are in the exact number of the electors registered for that locality, not one more, not one less. There is no voting by mail since voting is a civic duty that is carried out in person. Polling stations are set up in hospitals and some mobile polling stations do visit old people’s homes at designated times, but all other able-bodied citizens must go to their designated polling stations and there are no exceptions. It goes without saying that if you are not a citizen you may not be registered on the electoral roll and therefore will not get an electoral card and therefore you will not be able to fraudulently vote even when in possession of valid ID, as is only right and proper, since voting in national elections is a privilege and a duty as a citizen of the nation, not as a resident of the country.
    Postal ballots are available only to citizens who are officially registered as living abroad and can only be obtained by, and must be returned to, the local consulate abroad which will then send them to the national electoral office by diplomatic bag, not by regular post.
    Ballot papers are counted immediately after the closure of the poll station and may not be removed until the vote has been certified by an electoral official sent by the central electoral office of the municipality. Every political party has the right to designate electoral observers that are allowed in the polling station at all times on voting day even if they do not take part in the ballot counting procedures. They are literally a few inches away from the nose of the electoral officials to ensure that no foul play is allowed to take place, by hook or by crook.
    This is what I call a fair and democratic voting system. When does the US electoral system tally with any of the above at any point? Hardly ever, that’s when.
    Voting is too important to be left to haphazard methods that seem to be subject to the vagaries of too many single individuals and which vary dramatically throughout the country, no matter how big or sparsely populated it may be: even large countries like India and Australia get it right. I find it abnormal that a mighty country like the US of A cannot do such a simple thing, especially in view of all the rhetoric about democracy, civil rights, the republic and all the rest of it. It is preposterous that some people should consider the 2020 US Presidential election legitimate: Mr Trump might not have won in any case, but Mr Biden certainly did not win the vote fair and square.

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    1. “the whole US election system looks mind-bogglingly absurd. It is simply a disgrace and you don’t have to be a sleuth to smell a rat a hundred miles off… It is preposterous that some people should consider the 2020 US Presidential election legitimate.”

      The U.S. has been taking lessons on organizing elections from its next door neighbour, Mexico. During the last two centuries, Mexico has proved that it’s a country that knows a thing or two about rigging elections through dirty tricks while at the same shouting from the rooftops – “we’re a democracy, we’re a democracy, honestly and for reals.”

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      1. I know what I saw and nobody will force me to unsee it. Trump was winning comfortably in 3 states. Vote counts were stopped for the night. I went to bed. So did the observers. In the middle of the night, counting mysteriously resumed without observers. And immediately hundreds of thousands of purely Biden votes materialized, reversing the Trump lead. That so few people find this worthy of any attention is extremely sad.

        This isn’t completely new. Remember the election that Al Franken “won”? It was ludicrous. But it’s never been done at such a scale and so shamelessly.

        What I don’t get is that people who keep repeating that this isn’t a big deal, how do they know this won’t be used against their “side” one day?

        Bernie supporters, you are really and truly not bothered? You’ve now been robbed twice. No problem with that? The process is pristine?

        If so, then it serves you right.

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        1. “never been done at such a scale and so shamelessly”

          Today, I’m running with the Mussolini ‘March on Rome’ analogy.

          All that matters in the end for the US of A elites – intelligence, military, corporate, media/social media – is that their guy is in power. When liberal democracy is seen to take a turn that threatens them even a tiny bit, what possible interest do these folks have in respecting its norms and institutions?

          Mussolini promised to keep Italians safe from communism, Biden promised to keep American elites safe from nationalism and populism.

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        2. “Trump was winning comfortably…immediately hundreds of thousands of purely Biden votes materialized”

          Yes. None of the supposed explanations for the imabalance remotely fit with US voter behavior anywhere… people are supposed to believe that voter behavior unknown in the history of US elections appeared out of nowhere…

          But… I’m finding it hard to care (a new milestone in my emotional disengagement from my homeland – real… indifference). The dems will take the white house and use woke politics to bully people into not criticizing them as they turn the country into a third world shithole run by an unaccountable oligarchy….

          I feel bad for lots of individuals who will be impoverished and hurt in the process but sometimes country’s just kind of…. go downhill… we’ll see just how far down in the coming months…

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          1. I find it mind-boggling that Americans, regardless of party affiliation, are not alarmed by the prospect of this country turning into a third-world shithole, as you astutely pointed out. Why aren’t they concerned?

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            1. Most of us have never traveled to a third-world shithole, and have no idea what they’re actually like, just a vague notion of growing exotic fruits and providing the world with attractive foreign brides.

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    2. It has been my experience that the richer and more prosperous a nation, the worse are its democratic processes. The reason for that, largely, is that fat well fed people are more likely to be indifferent about all things including elections, while those who are poorer, dispossessed, or traumatised by the corruption of the so-called ‘elite’ or ‘political’ class understand why election integrity is important.

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      1. That’s a great point, George. So many people in Ukraine are tying themselves in knots, trying to create a functioning democracy. Another example is Spain right after Franco died. Everybody tried so hard to bring in democracy. And it worked!

        And here in the US nobody can be bothered any more. It’s all about partisanship and whose team is better.

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