And Now Let’s Degrade Eastern European Women!

I always know that whenever an article or a post mentions “Eastern-European women” some offensive and annoying crap is about to follow. Here is an example. A post at Feministe is discussing some porn site that, apparently, enjoys a lot of popularity:

Obviously this isn’t a one-way exploitation street – it’s not just Western men (or just men generally) who are consuming internet porn, and it’s not just Southeast Asian and Eastern European women who are in porn. But Western men do account for a disproportionate amount of online porn consumption. And they’re consuming porn that is produced at bargain-basement prices by women who have significantly less financial autonomy than many American and Western European women.

OK, what?

Don’t you just like it how every woman who is not American or Western European has to be poor, miserable, starving and exploited? Nobody, of course, is even trying to provide any data that would support the assertion that Eastern European women have less financial autonomy than “many American women.”  I know that I, as an Eastern European woman, have a lot less financial autonomy in the US than I had at home. Does the author of the article even know that Eastern European women of my country get educated for free, get free medical care, and very very rarely carry insane amounts of student loans, car loans, mortgages, etc.?

And what’s with lumping the millions of Eastern European women into one huge, amorphous category? All that Eastern European women from different countries share is that they live in the same huge geographical region. Their level of financial autonomy varies widely from country to country and even from one area of the same country to another.

The reasons why Eastern European women go into porn and sex work in huge numbers are a lot more complex than this blanket assertion that they do it to avoid starvation. Women in my culture are very strong, powerful, domineering and assertive in ways that, believe me, “many American and Western European women” would be well served to learn and imitate. I understand that it’s very convenient to imagine us all as pathetic, silent little victims and burst out in passionate rants on our behalf.

But, honestly, we really don’t need it.

36 thoughts on “And Now Let’s Degrade Eastern European Women!”

  1. Blah blah blah. Porn is exploitative and evil blah blah blah.

    You know what also bothered me about that piece? It wasn’t the talk about exploitation (which does deserve to be talked about)
    , rather, it was the constant whinging tone of “why aren’t men interested in high class, well paid, white western women? There must be something wrong with them liking defective, exploited eastern european or asian women.”

    I think I finally realized today the trap that feministe has fallen into. By attributing weakness and vulnerability to women, they have internalized the very sexism that at once point they probably attempted to fight. They give more credit to the concept of patriarchy in the classical sense – rule by men, than it has right now. As a result, they come off patronizing to women, and insulting to men.

    Also, for a place that is ostensibly committed to racial and gender equality, the bloggers there have a remarkable case of foot-in-mouth syndrome.

    /rant

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    1. ‘By attributing weakness and vulnerability to women, they have internalized the very sexism that at once point they probably attempted to fight. ”

      -Yes!

      “As a result, they come off patronizing to women, and insulting to men.”

      -Exactly. And so many people don’t even stop to think that, ultimately, they are not promoting the cause of feminism with all that but, rather, are setting it back a lot.

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  2. “But Western men do account for a disproportionate amount of online porn consumption.”

    Her only prove for this is her Cambodia anecdote.

    Also, does $15 per hour count as cheap labor in the United States ? I currently earn €12, or $16,4 an hour and that is far from being a bargain-basement price. Maybe somebody is forgetting that in other countries, you don’t have to pay horrendous amounts of money for health care, education, insurance and so on and so forth ?

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  3. Please never quote me on this, especially if you know who I really am, 🙂 🙂 but the site mentioned in the article is the site where one gets RE-directed most frequently without actually expressing any wish to go there. Thus, “popularity” (measured in visits) of said site is most likely NOT a reflection of wishes of men (or women) watching porn, but solely an expression of “superior” hidden trap (or however they are called) placement tactics of the site’s team, and their agreements with the sites where the traps are located. Thus, the whole argument based on the “immense popularity” of this site is BS. Without even invoking discussions on what is and is not proper non-patronizing feminism.

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  4. >”Women in my culture are very strong, powerful, domineering and assertive in ways that, believe me, “many American and Western European women” would be well served to learn and imitate.”

    Damn right. My grandmother was born to peasant landowners driven out of Ukraine by Stalin’s murderers and out of Europe by the Nazis, and she is about the hardest core person I’ve ever known. I am a total wuss American baby compared to her.

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  5. (Found this via the trackback from the Feministe thread in question.)

    Spot-on! This was exactly my criticism of Jill F’s article, and the “research” by Ogi Ogas that prompted it. It took the fact that a significant number of camgirls are based in East European countries (mostly Ukraine, Russia, and Baltic countries, I think) and SE Asia and *immediately* goes for the worst “beaten-down Natasha” stereotypes and comparison with 12 year-old Cambodian sex slaves! And accuses men who visit cam sites of deliberately seeking out victimized women. The leaps of logic carried out to assume the very worst about the situation of the women who do this work and their customers is absolutely astounding.

    BTW, I say this as somebody who think’s the authors core concerns – economic exploitation in the sex industry – are worthwhile, but the fact that the analysis fails to go beyond a questionable source and some national stereotypes is just sad.

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  6. Basically they suffer from sexy man syndrome. This leads them to prefer being dominated/subjugated by sexy alpha men. They PREFER to be sodomised on camera by multiple men, than have a meaningful relationships with non-‘sexy men’…If you have seen how stunningly beautiful some of these women are you would agree they would have no problem finding a normal non-sexy man to do ANYTHING for them. But they have philosophy of sexy-manism, and that’s where sexy-manism takes you cos that what sexy-mans are like.

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  7. What is actually untrue about what I said? Do you not agree that many of these women are so stonkingly beautiful that they would have little trouble getting a normal not-so-hot guy to do anything for them including marry them? I know they could for a fact, so they must actually PREFER the life they have chosen..Why do you think I am not correct? They preferred bad boys at school no doubt and now as women they still do, so they hang around with them, get sucked into porn etc etc..where they could have just hung out and dated/married a non-sexy-alpha man and be happy. Their choice. I would admit they should have more choices than that, but lets say thats the choice they have, its interesting that they would rather get sdomised by ten scumbags than have a solid partnership with a non-sexy-alpha man, something they could very very easily get if they wanted it…

    What is incorrect about that?

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  8. Yes, I get it. So I am correct, these women follow the philosophy of sexy-manism, sexy-manism is their priority, therefore getting sodomised on camera by ten sexy-man but disgusting human being- types and receiving some cash is preferable to them than dating a nice but un-sexy man type. That is very interesting I think.

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    1. “So I am correct, these women follow the philosophy of sexy-manism, sexy-manism is their priorit”

      – Sex is a priority of every healthy human being. You own deep sexual issues make you imagine all kinds of weird scenarios. Maybe it would be a good idea for you to stop being so hung up on other people’s sex and solve your issues.

      “and receiving some cash is preferable to them than dating a nice but un-sexy man type”

      – You are completely confused. Sexy men (and women) don’t need to pay their partners. Only the sexually unhealthy and unattractive ones do.

      ” ten sexy-man but disgusting human being- types”

      – It sounds like you met those men and spent a lot of time with them. 🙂

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    1. “It interesting that non-sexy man is more repugnant to them than the scumbags using them on film”

      – Who told you that these women are not using the men for sexual gratification? 🙂

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  9. Clarissa> They do it for cash basically, which means that their values place cash at a higher level than love and companionship, which again they can easily find, and maybe they do get some gratification yes, being abused by sexy-alpha men and used as a commodity is clearly preferable to them so you must be correct, non-alpha man they find repugnant and weak. However It is not possible for them to use the those men, those men have no feelings, when they call these women bitch/whore/cunt cumbucket/fuckhole etc they mean it, they hate them…I guess both parties get what they want.

    Everyone is a winner then.

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  10. -‘ You are completely confused. Sexy men (and women) don’t need to pay their partners. Only the sexually unhealthy and unattractive ones do’

    BUT they are paid, those women are stunning, and they do indeed require payment, they do it for cash, they doing it for free are they..

    ‘- It sounds like you met those men and spent a lot of time with them. ‘

    Not worth responding too..But yes actually I know many walking pig men.

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    1. “-’ You are completely confused. Sexy men (and women) don’t need to pay their partners. Only the sexually unhealthy and unattractive ones do’

      BUT they are paid, those women are stunning, and they do indeed require payment, they do it for cash, they doing it for free are they..”

      – Porn actresses do not get paid by porn actors. Like any other kind of actor or actress they are paid by the movie production company.

      “Not worth responding too..But yes actually I know many walking pig men.”

      – And I only meet fantastic, wonderful, sexy men. Interesting.

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  11. Ahh, so not only are there plenty of of non-sexy mens, there are according to you also loads of fantastic, wonderful, sexy men, so these women who we all know are stunning have not just the option of non-sexy mens, but wonderful, fantastic sexy mens that you meet as well..Yet they prefer multiple sodomy on camera. Even more interesting.

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    1. “Ahh, so not only are there plenty of of non-sexy mens, there are according to you also loads of fantastic, wonderful, sexy men, so these women who we all know are stunning have not just the option of non-sexy mens, but wonderful, fantastic sexy mens that you meet as well..Yet they prefer multiple sodomy on camera.”

      – That’s their right. 🙂 What is the issue we are discussing again? Why some people prefer certain things and other people prefer other things? 🙂 🙂

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  12. Yes they are paid by the company AND? they will fuck anyone for said pay..the men can be disgusting, it don’t matter to them as long as they get the cash..

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  13. The question I am asking, why do they prefer doing it, to having a solid relationship with a non-sexy or sexy-mans where they can look after each other and build a nice life..why is what they do preferable to them..? Why do you think it is preferable to them?

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    1. Why do you think male porn actors “prefer doing it”, instead of finding a different job and a good, reliable woman? Many women, who want to “build a nice life”, won’t date a porn actor in our time. So choosing more socially acceptable job would help those men attract more women, interested in “a solid relationship”. Why do you think it is preferable to them?

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    2. “The question I am asking, why do they prefer doing it, to having a solid relationship with a non-sexy or sexy-mans where they can look after each other and build a nice life..why is what they do preferable to them”

      – It’s like asking why you prefer ice-cream to chocolate or apples to oranges. 🙂 They just do. Why do you care about the preferences of other people?

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  14. The stigma on men is no where near as much, so I don’t think it affects them as much actually..Their children’s peers for example will probably talk with wonder than such and such’s dad is a porn star, someones mum being a porn star will be universally met with derision and bullying. I think whore women are universally derided across all cultures in a way that whore men are not..therefore it seems more interesting to ask why these women do it given the social reality..I contend they do it for cash, take away the cash and they mostly not be willing to do it, many of the guys would probably do it for free..in fact sometimes they have fans banging the women, those guys do it for free, the women never do it for free..

    These women stand out, the men I am afraid do not standout, alpha men are like that anyway, they do it off camera too, I haven’t met many women that as a big a whores as the women in porn, but I have met many whore men in life..

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    1. //Their children’s peers for example will probably talk with wonder than such and such’s dad is a porn star

      Are you wrong! We’re like from different planets. Those aren’t “whore” men (meaning sleeping with many women), those are whore men (meaning – for money on camera). Huge difference.

      Btw, in less permissive (sub) cultures, in which women would be derided for not being (practically) a virgin, “whore” men are A-OK, but whore men are another matter altogether. And, on the contrary, in more permissive (sub) cultures whore men are more fine, but so are women with many partners.

      //many of the guys would probably do it for free..

      Wrong too. Shooting a movie =\= having natural wild sex. It’s hard work. Among “Five Unsexy Reasons You Wouldn’t Want to Be a Male Porn Star” is this:

      When your job depends on how often you can get it up, keep it up, and get it out in the span of about five minutes, it’s only natural to start looking for enhancements to boost your performance. …
      Unfortunately, Viagra and Cialis are only the beginning. Just like anything, it’s possible for your body to eventually build up a tolerance for magic boner pills. First, taking just one pill doesn’t work, so you take two. Then double-popping stops working, so you start taking three…and so on and so on until you’re legitimately afraid that you’re ingesting enough artificial enzyme suppressants to detonate a blood vessel.
      It’s at this point where Caverject injections come into play. As in, the next logical step to being able to perform your duties as a male porn actor is to stick a needle into your wang on a regular basis and pumping it with chemicals so it can keep smiling for the camera. Ever seen the inside of a heroin addict’s elbow? It’s pock-marked with holes and dotted in little red welts from repeated needle injections. Now, we’re not saying that the same thing happens in this case with your dick, but for the sake of you’re sticking a freaking needle into your wiener, that’s exactly what we’re saying.

      Want to stick a needle for free somewhere yet?

      http://www.thesmokingjacket.com/humor/bad-things-about-porn

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    2. “The stigma on men is no where near as much, so I don’t think it affects them as much actually.”

      – Stigma?? What stigma? 🙂 Are you still living in the times of the Scarlet letter? 🙂

      “Their children’s peers for example will probably talk with wonder than such and such’s dad is a porn star, someones mum being a porn star will be universally met with derision and bullying.”

      – You don’t spend much time with kids, do you? 🙂

      ” I think whore women are universally derided across all cultures in a way that whore men are not..therefore it seems more interesting to ask why these women do it given the social reality.”

      – Because they enjoy it and don;t care what some stuck up sex-deprived fools might think. I highly recommend this attitude.

      “These women stand out, the men I am afraid do not standout, alpha men are like that anyway, they do it off camera too, I haven’t met many women that as a big a whores as the women in porn, but I have met many whore men in life..”

      – Seriously, dude, is this some kind of a sore issue with you? Why do you care so much?

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    3. Also, why do you keep calling men who sleep with many women “alpha men”? Nowadays in the West it’s very easy for both men and women to have plenty of sex partners, if they wish. Yes, for men too, unless as 40-year-old man you define only model-pretty 18-year-olds as women, while even very good looking women of your age aren’t women to you any longer.

      Barack Obama is an alpha man. A porn star? Honestly, so not that I can’t even express it. By “alpha man” here I mean potentially attractive, even if I don’t like the term. From what I understand, the term is supposed to show some authority of this man, some respect to him, and having sex with many people is so not it.

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  15. I find it hilarious that you equate financial autonomy with government freebies, which are paid for via the forceful separation of people from their money. I think you might have the word autonomy confused with another word.

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  16. Ahahaha, Feministe is the best. 8-15 $/h is better than what US companies opening offices in my Eastern European country pay beginner programmers, yet I don’t hear Feministe complaining about the exploitation of Eastern European and South-Asian programmers. Seriously, it’s like these people don’t understand 8-15$/h is great money for an Eastern European job with such low requirements for entry, especially since it offers flexible hours.

    Like

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