I just got another box. Also anonymous.
To give some substance to this post, I will quote an unrelated email from a student.
“Professor Clarissa, I got your message saying ‘I acknowledge the receipt of your essay.’ Does this mean you did or didn’t receive it?”
He receives it.
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You receive it, sorry. Another idiot student and I almost as idiotic as this student with my preceding comment! 😉 Maybe I should go in Hispanic Studies…
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If this anonymous person is really anonymous and if he’s a man, be careful.
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Patriarchy in action: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/06/19/cheating_n_3467647.html
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Why patriarchy??
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Because obligated fidelity is a product of the patriarchy. (even though the vast majority of those who embrace it are women in Occident)
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“Because obligated fidelity is a product of the patriarchy.”
– Obligatory fidelity of MEN??? Where exactly is that patriarchy located? Definitely not in Latin America. 🙂
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Of both sexes.
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“Of both sexes.”
– Really?? I lived in different countries, spend a lot of time learning about very different cultures, but this is honestly the first time ever that I hear of male fidelity as being the patriarchal norm.
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Not quite, David. Most patriarchal societies allow men a far greater licence for infidelity than they do women.
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Stille is right. In many societies, men were more allowed than women to cheat their spouse. But in the faggot-catholic Latin America (like in the Grande Noirceur’s Québec), both sexes are fobidden (culturally) to cheat their spouse.
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“But in the faggot-catholic Latin America (like in the Grande Noirceur’s Québec), both sexes are fobidden (culturally) to cheat their spouse.”
– that’s just not true. The institution of the official mistress is extremely wide-spread. Male fidelity is historically a non-existent concept in Latin American cultures.
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Clarissa seems to disagree. I don’t know much about Latin American mores, but I doubt they’re the same as an area they share only a continent and a religion with.
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I invite everybody to partake of the beautiful Latin American literature. 🙂 From it, anybody can soon find out that “male fidelity” is an oxymoron in the culture.
I know that men who practice it exist (and we even have 1 in the family), but they are not following a cultural norm.
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Yeah, you’re right about the “male fidelity is an oxymoron”, so I’m even more right about the patriarchy. That’s why this woman was violent against another woman but not against the man liar, even though the mistress provided a good service to this wife.
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Yes, patriarchal cultures create the belief in an unbridgeable chasm between men and women. As a result, people never really engage with members of the other gender. In this case, women have a very intense relationship with each other where they push each other off cliffs, etc. The man is just an excuse, an afterthought.
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I agree
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“One would think selfish, unthoughtful *ssholes wouldn’t be very good as sexual partners anyway”
Works for them, apparently. If they won’t nag me about me preferring long-haired guys, I won’t nag them about preferring selfish asshole guys. and we’ll all get laid according to our preferences.
“Congratulations! And I always had this prejudice against bars, thinking of online dating, when you see person’s education before creating any contact, as much better. I am talking about searching for a relationship here.”
Thank you! And yeah, my lover is one of the reasons PUAs amuse me so much – he did everything wrong according to PUA standards and got the girl he wanted nevertheless!
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Is it full of baby stuff too? Have you won a competition? You’ve made me laugh out loud today esp loud reading about your “fresh, unadulterated tomato” story.
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The other box had this expensive baby carrier that I really really wanted.
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// In this case, women have a very intense relationship with each other where they push each other off cliffs, etc. The man is just an excuse, an afterthought.
I think the main reason is far more prosaic. Since a man is seen as having a higher rank, women can’t do anything to him. However, among them subordinates compete for the “beta position” and can have very ugly fights.
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“Since a man is seen as having a higher rank, women can’t do anything to him.”
– Why on earth not? No, triangular relationships are always deeply homosocial and homoerotic. It doesn’t matter what the gender of the participants is. It’s all about gaining access to the genitals and life of another man / woman in the only socially acceptable way.
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Why not? The same reason why people won’t harm an abusive boss, if they want to still hold the job later. If a woman wants to keep her social role as “in relationship / marriage”, throwing a man from a cliff would kind of hurt that. 🙂 But pushing off a competitor for the resource may seem like a great idea.
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“The same reason why people won’t harm an abusive boss, if they want to still hold the job later. If a woman wants to keep her social role as “in relationship / marriage”, throwing a man from a cliff would kind of hurt that.”
– People who want to keep a job don’t go around murdering co-workers either. 🙂 In order to engage with a person’s body in such a violent way, you need to have a lot of very passionate feeling for that body.
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“No, triangular relationships are always deeply homosocial and homoerotic”
Not only triangular relationships. How about those men who expose their slut trophies with enhanced breasts in bars each Thursday night?
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I haven’t been to such bars but they sound very scary.
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This is an interesting theory coming from you. Write a paper about “Homoeroticism and related problems in heterosexual relationships”. 😉
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Eve Kosofsky Sedgwick studied homoeroticism in literature in very interesting ways.
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“Not only triangular relationships. How about those men who expose their slut trophies with enhanced breasts in bars each Thursday night?”
They are triangular. Only instead of having 1 triangle you have many man-woman-man in the audience triangles. See the whole PUA movement – those people don’t give 2 cents on sexual satisfaction, getting their jollies instead from a highly elaborate points system that allows them to compare their performance with that of other men. The women themselves don’t even matter past their points value.
I’m surprised that someone who calls himself a feminist calls some women sluts, however.
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It’s those men who call them sluts, but fair enough, I would called them sluts too because they accept to play that stupid macho game. Those cunts deserve to be called like it. I have no remorse to call misogynistic names to misogynstic people.
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It’s those men who call them sluts, but fair enough, I would called them sluts too because they accept to play that stupid macho game. Those cunts deserve to be called like it. I have no remorse to call misogynistic names on misogynstic people.
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“It’s those men who call them sluts, but fair enough, I would called them sluts too because they accept to play that stupid macho game. Those cunts deserve to be called like it. I have no remorse to call misogynistic names on misogynstic people.”
But how are they harming you, if just being reminded of their existence means you suddenly become unable to write two sentences without going for a misogynistic slur? This is pretty unusual for you, from what I’ve seen of you in here.
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Misogynistic slurs are the only language that those misogynistic sluts can understand. This is the only context where slut-shaming is a legitimate tactic.
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For example, I would never, contrary to those sluts who use slut-shaming all the time, use those misogynistic slurs against prostitutes, Femen activists (even though I’m not a great fan of them) and Clarissa for example because they’re not misogynitic people.
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Even presuming you’re right, David, you’re not talking to them right now. You’re talking to the readers of this thread (who, presumably, won’t be found on the arm of macho men on a Thursday night), but it’s still sluts&cunts all the way down. What’s the point?
Also, even if the sort of woman you dissaprove of reads this, how is she to differentiate between you and random patriarchal assholes if the stuff you say to her is just the same shit she gets from them? In all these posts, you haven’t ever said what exactly is wrong with them (beyond the very vague “play that stupid macho game”, which doesn’t even affect you, me and anyone who’s not playing it), but you’ve thrown plenty of slurs.
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“you’re not talking to them right now. You’re talking to the readers of this thread”
First, these sluts are very common, even in the academical circles, so they could read this blog. I want them to know exactly what I think of them.
Second, I will never use that against non-misogynistic women. Using misogynistic slurs against misogynistic women is a way for me to distinguish between misogynistic women and feminist ones. Normally, misogynistic people use misogynitic slurs against feminist women all the time, so let’s reappropriate ourselves those slurs against those mysogynistic sluts. They deserve it!
“how is she to differentiate between you and random patriarchal assholes if the stuff you say to her is just the same shit she gets from them?”
Logically, you seem to be right but don’t worry, they are able to differentiate because I’m an asshole for them and they love and embrace those macho assholes. And if they hear an “asshole” like me vomiting that kind of slurs, they begin to think that this could be wrong.
“In all these posts, you haven’t ever said what exactly is wrong with them (beyond the very vague “play that stupid macho game”, which doesn’t even affect you, me and anyone who’s not playing it)”
Those sluts embrace to play this stupid macho game consisting to be used as fuckhole trophies by repressed faggots doucebags to brag themselves in competition with their faggot douchebags fiends. It’s very sad for me to see that those sluts tend to dominate this society, so I insult them vigorously with the only language that they understand to told them to stop to act like this.
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“First, these sluts are very common, even in the academical circles, so they could read this blog. I want them to know exactly what I think of them.”
– OK, now I do feel alluded to, as my Spanish friend would say. 🙂
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“Second, I will never use that against non-misogynistic women. Using misogynistic slurs against misogynistic women is a way for me to distinguish between misogynistic women and feminist ones. Normally, misogynistic people use misogynitic slurs against feminist women all the time, so let’s reappropriate ourselves those slurs against those mysogynistic sluts. They deserve it!”
You cannot reappropriate a slur that isn’t aimed at you. It is, however, often aimed at women like me – women whose sexuality does not fit the patriarchal mold – so you can probably see why I’m annoyed by it. Also, how exactly do they deserve it? All they do is get involved in interactions that have nothing to do with you or me.
“Logically, you seem to be right but don’t worry, they are able to differentiate because I’m an asshole for them and they love and embrace those macho assholes. And if they hear an “asshole” like me vomiting that kind of slurs, they begin to think that this could be wrong.”
Seems to me like you don’t actually know any woman that behaves this way past the “passing acquaintance” stage. All the club girls I’ve met would just start ignoring you the moment you called them cunts. If their girlfriends called them the same, they might listen, but not if an asshole like you vomits that kind of slurs. They embrace macho assholes for being assholes, so even if you’re an asshole to them, you won’t get them to listen to you. If that is your goal, you’ll have to find another way.
“Those sluts embrace to play this stupid macho game consisting to be used as fuckhole trophies by repressed faggots doucebags to brag themselves in competition with their faggot douchebags fiends. It’s very sad for me to see that those sluts tend to dominate this society, so I insult them vigorously with the only language that they understand to told them to stop to act like this.”
I really, really don’t see the problem with them enjoying that game. Nobody is asking you or me to participate. It would be a problem if that game was mandatory, but it’s not, and seeing how nobody forces us into bars on Thursday nights, I don’t understand the idea of them dominating this society.
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// seeing how nobody forces us into bars on Thursday nights, I don’t understand the idea of them dominating this society.
Some people think gays dominate society and will force everybody into their bars too. I suppose David (used to?) frequent the bars and try to date those women. Unsuccessfully. Because if I personally never went to night bars, I can’t think too much about the issue and definitely not describe it in such vivid detail. 🙂
I suppose those are younger, unmarried women, trying to find a date or a relationship, and those who after finding the relationship still like visiting bars with now boyfriend. So what?
But now I am curious. Never seen or heard about “the club girls.” Still, could you may be explain a bit about the issue? What are they doing in bars? Who are “macho men” and why the men are “*ssholes,” except not being feminist (like most other men whether they visit bars or not)? What is the game? Human subcultures are fascinating.
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“Human subcultures are fascinating.”
– You sound just like me. 🙂
My sister met her fiancee at a club and they’ve been together for 11 1/2 years. I have no idea why people still hold this stigma against going to bars to enhance one’s personal life. My mother always used to say, “What kind of garbage can one pick up in a bar?” And my sister and I would yell, “Me!!!” 🙂 🙂
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The club girls I knew were mostly interested in having one night stands and short-term relationships. They did sleep with lots of assholes, but since they weren’t often sticking around in the mornings, it didn’t matter that they were assholes – only that they could sexually satisfy them. I met my guy in a bar as well, though since joking about the shittiness of Windows isn’t exactly macho, I’m not sure he fits into the category David is foaming at the mouth about. I know he’d react to being called a faggot with the same “Why, thank you!” that I’d produce if I were called a slut.
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” I know he’d react to being called a faggot with the same “Why, thank you!” that I’d produce if I were called a slut.”
– Same here, same here! I always know that when N emerges from from his room beaming this means he was called gay by other players. Gamers only call people gay when they are really jealous of their game.
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// They did sleep with lots of assholes, but since they weren’t often sticking around in the mornings, it didn’t matter
One would think selfish, unthoughtful *ssholes wouldn’t be very good as sexual partners anyway.
// I met my guy in a bar as well
Congratulations! And I always had this prejudice against bars, thinking of online dating, when you see person’s education before creating any contact, as much better. I am talking about searching for a relationship here.
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Femen activists are (probably, I haven’t followed them closely) deeply misogynic, otherwise why be naked all the time?
// How about those men who expose their slut trophies with enhanced breasts in bars each Thursday night?
Can somebody explain me, please, which women David calls sluts here? Are they long term girlfriends of bar going men, who boast to their friends? Or one night stands, who frequent bars for that purpose?
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“Are they long term girlfriends of bar going men, who boast to their friends?” Yes, those.
“Or one night stands, who frequent bars for that purpose?”
Certainly not those. I have no problem at all with them and I would never call them sluts.
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// Certainly not those. I have no problem at all with them and I would never call them sluts.
Why not? After all, they too “show” PUAs and “macho men” that being the way they are doesn’t prevent them from having a lot of sex and bragging stories to tell other PUAs, which they practically live for (bragging stories, not sex or women).
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And what is “to play that stupid macho game” ? Which game and what do they do? How can those women call other women sluts, if they have 1 night stands themselves?
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// who, presumably, won’t be found on the arm of macho men on a Thursday night
Wait, is the problem with women in bars, if they are with “macho men”? Who are the latter: PUAs, simply not feminist men? Most men and women aren’t feminist, so is it OK to call most women “sluts” now?
When I hear what David says, obviously it’s something personal, and I immediately think it’s jealousy. If a woman decides to sleep with David, she is fine, but heaven forbid to sleep with men he doesn’t approve of. May be she likes the sex and the man for his other, not mysoginic aspects? May be she likes “the game” (lifestyle of bars and men) and isn’t interested in literature or philisophy? Whom does she harm? Again, most people aren’t feminist, should feminists adopt the patriarchal slurs?
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It’s also very easy to misjudge people. I have the typical blonde-bimbo-big-boobs look. Plus I speak Russian. Plus I cover myself with shiny things. Plus I tend to look very stupid. You see me at a bar next to a huge Russian man on a Thursday night, you might not guess I am college professor and a respectable Frau. 🙂
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I was not referring to misjudging situations, like “I thought she was a slut, but she is whatever,” but specifically to the women he referred to. Still don’t understand who they are exactly.
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“I was not referring to misjudging situations, like “I thought she was a slut, but she is whatever,” but specifically to the women he referred to. Still don’t understand who they are exactly.”
– Judging by appearances, they might very easily be me. 🙂 If their only characteristics are that they are busty and visit bars, then I totally qualify.
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“Judging by appearances, they might very easily be me. If their only characteristics are that they are busty and visit bars, then I totally qualify.”
No, the only intersesting feature for these faggot douchebags is that you’re blonde. But you are disqualified because of this: you’re too plump, you’re breasts are not enhanced, you are a feminist, you’re too rich, you’re intelligent and N. doesn’t use you as his trophy.
Oh, and many of these sluts are wannabe housewives.
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“you’re breasts are not enhanced, you are a feminist, you’re too rich, you’re intelligent and N. doesn’t use you as his trophy.”
– You can’t see any of this visually, though. 🙂
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you’re breasts are not enhanced, you are a feminist, you’re too rich, you’re intelligent and N. doesn’t use you as his trophy
“your breasts are not enhanced, you are a feminist, you’re too rich, you’re intelligent and N. doesn’t use you as his trophy”
“You can’t see any of this visually, though”
Your non-enhanced breats are very easy to see, and I’m sure that it’s very easy to see that N doesn’t use you as his trophy.
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“Your non-enhanced breasts are very easy to see”
– I don’t know what the implication is but I resent it. 🙂 🙂
Maybe I should get out of this serious conversation with my playful mood.
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“You can’t see any of this visually, though”
Your non-enhanced breats are very easy to see, and I’m sure that it’s very easy to see that N doesn’t use you as his trophy.
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But do you think that whenever she visits bars, she’s on N’s arm all the time? Also, depending on the clothes she wears, the distinction between enhanced breasts and nonenhanced breasts won’t necessarily be easy to determine. Not that there’s a problem with enhanced breasts anyway. Hurrah for cyborgs.
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“Maybe I should get out of this serious conversation with my playful mood.”
Please don’t. I’m on my third glass of wine here, which means I’ll soon stop being able to have a fully serious conversation. Playful is where it’s going to be at in 10 minutes.
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“But do you think that whenever she visits bars, she’s on N’s arm all the time? ”
No, at that’s one reason why she’s not like those sluts.
“Also, depending on the clothes she wears, the distinction between enhanced breasts and nonenhanced breasts won’t necessarily be easy to determine.”
No, it’s impossible to think that her breasts are enhanced (and for very young women, this is not necessary to have their breasts enhanced to be call a slut by me). Not her.
And I have some issue with breast enhancing because in the vast majority of the cases, this is the faggot man who demands this to improve the quality of his trophy to brag himself even more against his faggot fiends.
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Don’t be resentful Clarissa. Nothing is more beautiful than natural big breasts! 🙂 🙂
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“No, it’s impossible to think that her breasts are enhanced (and for very young women, this is not necessary to have their breasts enhanced to be call a slut by me). Not her.”
With the proper under and outer wear, her breasts can look more artificial than an American tomato. You know nothing, Jon Snow.
Clarissa, the moment me discussing the possible ways your breasts can be interpreted by people who don’t exist stops being fun for you, please tell me. Before wishing to inform, I wish to entertain right now, and since this is your blog, you get dibs on being entertained.
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“Clarissa, the moment me discussing the possible ways your breasts can be interpreted by people who don’t exist stops being fun for you, please tell me. Before wishing to inform, I wish to entertain right now, and since this is your blog, you get dibs on being entertained.”
– I’m extremely entertained. 🙂 Thank you, this is a brilliant discussion.
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I really don’t understand the calling-women-sluts-and-cunts then. Especially since, not being a native speaker of English, the words don’t have much insulting power to me. Slut simply means a woman who has sex with more people than the person calling her a slut would like, and cunt is the only non-ridiculous word for vulva+vagina in the English language – it’s insulting to reduce a woman to it, of course, but the shame falls entirely on the person reducing her to it.
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// Those sluts embrace to play this stupid macho game consisting to be used as fuckhole trophies by repressed faggots doucebags to brag themselves in competition with their faggot douchebags fiends. It’s very sad for me to see that those sluts tend to dominate this society, so I insult them vigorously with the only language that they understand to told them to stop to act like this.
Please, explain who you refer to. I am from another country, so couldn’t visit your bar and see. 🙂
And I see “faggot” is a feminist insult too nowadays. The only one “macho men” (not feminist men?) understand.
David, why not call KKK members the N word to show them too? After all, they’ll understand the insult better than being called “racists,” right?
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“Please, explain who you refer to. I am from another country, so couldn’t visit your bar and see.”
This is very common in Europe, in North America and in Australia.
“why not call KKK members the N word to show them too?”
If a black individual is a racist or embraces the KKK, it would be a pleasure for me to call him a nigger.
I use “faggot” against heterosexual men who are affected by repressed faggotry (like many religious-freak men), heterosexual homophobes or heterosexual macho men who called other men “faggots” when they are not enough macho.
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I live in Europe and I certainly haven’t often seen the sort of behaviour that would make me call people sluts or faggots. Even when I was very young and silly and hadn’t yet figured out singles bars and clubs bore the hell out of me.
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// This is very common in Europe, in North America and in Australia.
I live in Israel.
// If a black individual ….
I meant white KKK members, who are affected by repressed (whatever).
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I don’t think this is very common in Israel.
I would not call with the N word a white KKK member because he’s not black.
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“I live in Europe and I certainly haven’t often seen the sort of behaviour that would make me call people sluts or faggots.”
In England, people are very civilised. So maybe this is not very current there.
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I have lived in the US and Canada and never seen anything of the kind either, to be honest. Maybe I visited different kinds of bars.
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Why are *you* visiting those bars, if they’re so bad?
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“In England, people are very civilised. So maybe this is not very current there.”
Bloody hell, I’m not in England, though I like the way British people swear. I’m Romanian, and trust me, our macho men are way beyond anything you may find in Canada, and our club culture is way more widespread than things are in US/Canada. However, it’s easy to avoid the machoness. Just don’t go to those clubs, and if you do, don’t try to pick up the macho men/blondes with enhanced bosoms. I don’t understand why you expose yourself to people you dislike to the point where you feel they’re everywhere and dominating the social scene. Just stay home, dude, just because I met my lover in a bar doesn’t mean you can’t meet yours in a non-macho-bimbo space 😛
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// I have lived in the US and Canada and never seen anything of the kind either, to be honest. Maybe I visited different kinds of bars.
You need David to do some research in bars around you and tell you where to look. Or do an excursion to the nearest to your place bar he’ll advise. 🙂
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Yes, he could organize tours. 🙂
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// our club culture is way more widespread than things are in US/Canada.
Why would that be so?
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Because this culture appeared in US/Canada naturally, but the version we have in Romania serves both the people who want the same stuff US clubgoers want and the people who want to feel American. And there’s a non-negligible amount of the latter.
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