Hopeless Europeans

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Clarissa

February 2, 2014

Western Europeans are hopeless, my friends. Even the extremely talented Helen Graham ends her new book with the completely idiotic statement that the reasons why ultra-nationalism is on the rise today everywhere in Europe are the depoliticization of the majority and lack of knowledge about the past.

Immigration is not mentioned even as a contributing factor. Graham pretends to have no idea that those who know nothing about a society’s past and are not integrated enough to participate politically are likely to be found in massive numbers among immigrants.

People seem terrified of their own shadow.

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12 responses to “Hopeless Europeans”

musteryou

February 2, 2014

If people are terrified of their own shadow to the point that they cannot think straight, I wonder why that would be? Australians tend to never mention that they are colonial powers in relation to the Aboriginals, but they are very, very angry at white people from Africa. It seems that their shadow suddenly becomes visible to them at times — but only when they look to Africa.

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valter07

February 2, 2014

What is “integrated enough” anyway? What you or me may believe is “enough” (e.g. finding lack of gender segregation in education system completely normal) may be far from enough for a typical right-winger, who will only be satisfied by complete assimilation. I bet you would not want to fully, 100%, assimilate into American society. And not because you are lazy… but because there most likely are at least a few areas where you consider your value system to be superior. Or if not superior, then at least worth preserving, not worth sacrificing them in the name of the psychological comfort of the locals…
Have you been to church today (on Sunday)? 🙂 🙂 Those godless commies…
This is deliberately ridiculous question, to make my point…

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1. Clarissa
  
  February 2, 2014
  
  “I bet you would not want to fully, 100%, assimilate into American society. And not because you are lazy… but because there most likely are at least a few areas where you consider your value system to be superior.”
  
  – I have to confess that I did avoid the Superbowl to come home and work on my article instead. 🙂
  
  “Have you been to church today (on Sunday)? ”
  
  – My husband made me listen to 2,5 hours of Sunday sermons during my driving lesson today. What I find really interesting is how the preacher always emphasizes “D” in “God.” It sounds like “goDDD.”
  
  But you make a good point anyway.
  
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  1. valter07
    
    February 2, 2014
    
    How dare you! Those not interested in Superbowl cannot be trusted to educate American youth!!!
    
    I must admit, I am biased, not so much by tolerance and moral relativism, but by being tired of “Khrakozia for Khrakozians” attitude…
    Here in Quebec the weirdest alliances are formed to oppose the majority operating out of the belief that the land belongs to them and to them alone…
    
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    1. Clarissa
      
      February 2, 2014
      
      Gosh, if people can’t find anything better to do in Montreal, of all places, than bugger around with religion, then nothing will help them. Total losers.
      
      “How dare you! Those not interested in Superbowl cannot be trusted to educate American youth!!!”
      
      – I’m not afraid of that discussion. I’ve had quite a few of such folks try to attack me on my blog but they are the margin, not me, and I knock them down easily.
      
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  2. valter07
    
    February 2, 2014
    
    Not sure whom do you mean by “losers”, the demonstrators, or the authors of the “values charter”… I’ve been there, actually. Although I found demonstrating against one nationalist state under the flag of another nationalist state somewhat ironic, I understand the point. Rephrasing a bit – “first they went after the Muslims, but I am not a Muslim; next they went after the Anglos, but I am not an Anglo; next they went after the Jews, but I am not a Jew… and then there was nobody there to protect me…”
    But on the other hand, I do see some element of Pandoira’s box in creating a precedent when minorities unite against the majority.
    
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    1. Clarissa
      
      February 2, 2014
      
      I’m sorry, I didn’t mean to offend, but I will never understand how anybody can be motivated to do anything – let alone stand outside in the cold – by religion in today’s Quebec. People seriously don’t know how good they have it without the obnoxious religious fanatics running around all over the place.
      
      Why not have a separate rally against nationalism? That would be a profoundly noble cause.
      
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  3. valter07
    
    February 2, 2014
    
    Come on, are you trying to offend me now by implying I cannot handle disapproval by a friend?? 🙂
    
    —People seriously don’t know how good they have it without the obnoxious religious fanatics running around all over the place.
    
    Exactly. There are no obnoxious religious fanatics from whom everyone would need protection in the form of the charter..
    
    Why not confront nationalism per se? I am not sure. I only have theories. My understanding is that, for better or for worse, it seems to be a taboo to confront the Francophone dominance of Quebec directly. For instance, there was no serious attempt by any non-PQ government to dilute law 101.
    In general, it seems to be accepted practice around the world that every ethnic group is entitled to their own piece of territory where they are entitled to treat others as second class citizens. In other words, significant degree of cultural protectionism (of majority against the minorities) is considered acceptable.
    
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    1. Clarissa
      
      February 3, 2014
      
      “Come on, are you trying to offend me now by implying I cannot handle disapproval by a friend?? ”
      
      – No, I know you have a sense of humor. I keep blurting things out without thinking, it’s like an uncontrollable compulsion. 🙂
      
      “There are no obnoxious religious fanatics from whom everyone would need protection in the form of the charter..”
      
      – Fanatics appear when there is no deeply held and vocally expressed agreement in a society that there is no place for them here.
      
      “My understanding is that, for better or for worse, it seems to be a taboo to confront the Francophone dominance of Quebec directly.”
      
      – I understand. But does it really make sense to confront them on the single issue where they are promoting something undoubtedly good?
      
      “In other words, significant degree of cultural protectionism (of majority against the minorities) is considered acceptable.”
      
      – I read an article yesterday saying that 17,000 girls in Spain are in danger of genital mutilation. Not only doesn’t the article suggest that en masse deportation or incarceration are the only appropriate ways of dealing with issue, it doesn’t even allow itself the tiny freedom of saying, “This is a disgusting barbarity.”
      
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cliff arroyo

February 3, 2014

Had a much longer comment, but I’ll be brief.

A lot has been done over the last thirty or so years to discredit any kind of nationalism in the UK (and other WE countries). When ideas can’t be discussed openly they’re driven underground, where they fester.

A large (and growing) per cent of the population of WE countries is convinced that their governments have lied to them openly about almost everything they’re doing. In that kind of environment there aren’t many avenues open to normal people – there’s alienation and nihilism on the one hand or religion and nationalism on the other and if moderate nationalism is discredited then only aggressive nationalism is left.

Short story : Ultra-nationalism is on the rise because people like Helen Graham have helped to make sure it’s the only kind of nationalism possible in the current European context.

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1. Clarissa
  
  February 3, 2014
  
  “Ultra-nationalism is on the rise because people like Helen Graham have helped to make sure it’s the only kind of nationalism possible in the current European context.”
  
  – Yes. For my new project, I’m analyzing novels that talk about the current economic crisis which is perceived as a crisis of identity. Immigration is central to those novels and not in the “let’s celebrate diversity and multi-culturalism” way. The novels take a much more complex and nuanced approach, and their authors are not afraid of saying exactly what they want to say.
  
  I, however, fear that my analysis of these novels will be condemned because I will be addressing these issues and not in a uniformly cheery manner.
  
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el

August 18, 2014

\\ – Yes. For my new project, I’m analyzing novels that talk about the current economic crisis which is perceived as a crisis of identity. Immigration is central to those novels and not in the “let’s celebrate diversity and multi-culturalism” way.

Can you write something about it, or would it possibly hurt you by making your ideas known before publication?

Have been looking at archives and would love both promised excerpts from the book you’re reading and from Judt. 😉

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