Let’s Help Ukraine!

After the death of over 40 people in the Ukrainian city of Odessa, murdered as a result of Russian terrorists invading the city and shooting into a peaceful crowd, it has become clear that the Russian Federation has become an unapologetic sponsor of terrorism. Let’s get the White House to overcome its inertia and recognize this obvious reality.

We can all help Ukrainians who are dying today to defend their right to live free of foreign invaders. Let’s sign this petition:

WE PETITION THE OBAMA ADMINISTRATION TO:

Designate Russia as “State Sponsor of Terrorism”

In its unannounced war against Ukraine, Russia relies on covert operations which fall squarely within the definition of “international terrorism” under 18 U.S.C. § 2331. Specifically, armed operatives of Russia, acting under disguise, attempt to influence the policy of Ukrainian government by intimidation or coercion. They also try to affect the conduct of a government by assassinations and kidnapping, taking by force government buildings, police posts and military bases of Ukraine. This activity is being conducted on large scale and over prolonged time period, despite condemnation by the USA, G-7, NATO, EU and UN.

Accordingly, Russia must be officially designated as “State sponsor of terrorism”, per http://www.state.gov/j/ct/list/c14151.htm

Click here to sign the petition!

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36 responses to “Let’s Help Ukraine!”

twicerandomly

May 4, 2014

Usually the mainstream media characterizes the news out of Ukraine as, “Russians bad, Ukrainians good”, and that is pretty much the sum of their reporting. But even the mainstream media can’t find a way to report that the Odessa disaster was caused by “Russian terrorists shooting into a peaceful crowd.” http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-27275383.
And the New York times recently ran an article in which they interviewed some protestors who were Ukrainians and did not want to join Russia, but just wanted a federal government.
I’m not saying the the BBC and the New York Times are the most reliable sources, but they have until now taken the position that all the unrest in Ukraine has been caused by Russian provocateurs, and now they seem to find the evidence for that position not completely persuasive.

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Clarissa

May 4, 2014

“they have until now taken the position that all the unrest in Ukraine has been caused by Russian provocateurs”

– This position is exactly true.

“And the New York times recently ran an article in which they interviewed some protestors who were Ukrainians and did not want to join Russia, but just wanted a federal government.”

– The words “federal government” have only become current in Ukraine after the Russian invasion started in February of this year.

“But even the mainstream media can’t find a way to report that the Odessa disaster was caused by “Russian terrorists shooting into a peaceful crowd.””

– Because they don’t want to accept the truth. Doing so would require their governments to take action, and that is something nobody is prepared to do.

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1. Clarissa
  
  May 4, 2014
  
  Here is a very long and detailed post from somebody who was in Odessa during the disturbances and took tons of photos. The post is obviously in Russian.
  
  Of course, the Western “mainstream media” doesn’t want to notice hundreds of similar reports because that’s too inconvenient. It’s a lot easier to find “pro-federalist Ukrainians”, especially since they hide their Russian passports so well.
  
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  1. Clarissa
    
    May 4, 2014
    
    Another interesting article on the events in Odessa, although also obviously in Russian.
    
    I am yet to read anything even remotely worthy of interest about what happened in Odessa in English. For now, it makes sense to listen to those who were actually there.
    
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2. twicerandomly
  
  May 5, 2014
  
  I don’t accept that the BBC misreports the news because if it told the truth it would require the government to take action. Nobody is going to take action. The U.S. has made so many stupid decisions (stupid wars, financial deregulation, reducing tax rates on the wealthy) that it now has a 17 trillion dollar debt (last time I checked) and the only way it can avoid slipping into recession is by printing money. Europe is in dire financial shape too. It would be different, I think, if the West was in good shape financially.
  From what I read, after a street fight, the Ukrainian crowd burnt down the tent village of the protestors, driving them inside the trade union building, and then threw molotov cocktails into the building, and beat up anyone who managed to escape. Even if they were Russians, that is a horrible death.
  Are the people who were there the most reliable witnesses? The BBC interviewed people who were there, and they all had different stories.
  I’ll read the links you posted, but it may take a while.
  
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  1. Clarissa
    
    May 5, 2014
    
    I understand that you need to believe that Putin is a hero. I just don’t understand why.
    
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3. twicerandomly
  
  May 5, 2014
  
  How could you possibly get the idea that I thought Putin was a hero from what I wrote? My points were: 1) in some narratives, some Ukrainians are not completely blameless, and: 2) regardless of the merits of the West rescuing Ukraine, it’s not going to happen because the West is broke.
  
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  1. Clarissa
    
    May 5, 2014
    
    In all of your comments you are consistently taking the pro-Putin side. I want to know why.
    
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4. twicerandomly
  
  May 5, 2014
  
  I am not pro-Putin, and I am not pro-Russian. I don’t like Russia, I would hate to live there, Putin has made Russia more repressive. Putin would have annexed Crimea regardless of what the Crimeans wanted. Putin is playing a game with Ukraine in order to get some sort of control over it.
  But, Kerry was right when he said that Russia was just a regional player. Putin is not going to rebuild the Soviet Union. Crimea was strategically important, and Putin needs Ukraine as a buffer, but I think it is highly unlikely that Putin has visions of bringing Poland, for example, back into his sphere of influence.
  It is unfortunate for Ukraine, but it does not get to determine its own future. It’s future will be decided by Russia, Europe and the West negotiations. If the same thing happened to Canada, I would be sad and angry. And because I live in Canada, I know we are only independent because the U.S. allows us to be, and that one day, when the water runs out, or the oil runs out, the U.S. will look up north and decide that our time has come.
  Sometimes I challenge the things you post, but that does not mean that I support the opposite side, it just means that I think I see some confirmation bias, and I am calling you on that.
  
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zinemin

May 6, 2014

I am surprised that people seem to argue that if the pro-Russian fighters in the East are Ukrainian, this changes the situation. It is not necessary for them to be imported fighers from Russia, in order for Russia to be the main reason behind the unrest in Ukraine, and thus fully to blame.
It seems clear to me that the unrest is fueled by (i) massive Russian propaganda that is known to be full of absurd lies about the Ukrainian government, and probably the main source of information for many Ukrainians in the East (ii) the fact that Russian troops stand nearby, apparently ready to attack and help the separatists if needed and (iii) the fact that Russia already annexed a part of Ukraine.
People seem surprisingly oblivious about the effect that massive propaganda can have. In several other civil wars recently, like in Rwanda or in Yugoslavia it was propaganda that caused enough distrust to make people start fighting their neighbors that they had lived beside peacefully for decades.
Now it is easy for Russia to say that they have no control about these pro-Russian fighters. If they aired TV programs admitting that they had been lying, and withdrew their troops, we would see if they have control or not.
I don’t understand how so many reader’s comments in the media seem to be understanding of Russia, and think that the mainstream Western media is not reporting the situation correctly. There are many signs that Russia is not interested in de-escalating the situation, like for example the fact that they are now planning a huge military parade in the Crimea of all places.

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David Gendron

May 5, 2014

USA and Russia are State sponsors of terrorism.

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David Gendron

May 5, 2014

USA and Russia are both State sponsors of terrorism.

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David Bellamy

May 5, 2014

This is true, David. However it still might be useful for the U. S. to do as this petition says. I have signed it.

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1. Clarissa
  
  May 5, 2014
  
  Thank you, David Bellamy.
  
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Clarissa

May 5, 2014

Yes, how convenient is this slogan that allows one to do absolutely nothing.

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May 5, 2014

Read today about our new immigrants from Ukraine:

Number of new immigrants from Ukraine registered at the ministry in the first three months of the year totaled 557, an increase of 43 percent over the same period last year.
[…]
The Jewish community of Ukraine is estimated to number today at about 200,000. Since the early 1990s, about 340,000 Ukrainian Jews have settled in Israel.
http://www.haaretz.com/jewish-world/jewish-world-news/1.584292

I think that most likely in the end most Jews from around the world will settle in Israel.

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May 5, 2014

On a slightly other topic:

Poll: 20% of Israelis Feel More ‘Jewish’ Than ‘Israeli’
Most Israelis feel more or equally ‘Jewish’ as they do ‘Israeli,’ poll reveals. But will they in the future?
[…]
Despite the slight upper hand for Jewish identity in the poll, most respondents predicted that their children and grandchildren would identify primarily as “Israeli” and that Jewish identity would wane over time.
http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/179953#.U2dPi8R_tPk

It could’ve been an interesting discussion about Jewish vs Israeli. How soon do you think Israeli Jews will be more Israeli rather than Jewish? After all, one can be Jewish elsewhere, but not Israeli.

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Marina

May 5, 2014

el, with all due respect, your comments frequently tend to dilute the topics discussed. Issues you bring up are all interesting, but perhaps you can post about them in the open thread? thank you!

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Stille (@aperfectbalance)

May 5, 2014

I don’t think blog posts that have few comments have few comments due to el’s posts. I quite appreciate being able to see the issues el brings up in recent but not very used comment threads rather than having to hunt for the open thread on page 5

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1. Stringer Bell
  
  May 5, 2014
  
  It’s not about whether her posts stifle discussion. She frequently spams topics with irrelevant garbage.
  
  A lighthearted blogpost (https://clarissasblog.com/2014/05/04/im-not-exotic/) where Clarissa is talking about attending a party get THIS reply from el:
  
  “Wanted to share:
  
  “Today At 8 P.M. a one-minute siren sounded throughout Israel.”
  
  Memorial Day for for the fallen of Israel’s wars and victims of terrorism has begun.
  
  “According to Defense Ministry figures, the total number of Israel’s fallen is 23,169.”
  
  Tomorrow in the evining will begin Independence Day.”
  
  Do you think this is necessary? Or appropriate?
  
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2. el
  
  May 5, 2014
  
  I didn’t know where to leave the comment about Memorial Day since “Ask Clarissa” comment thread is so long, thus on purpose left it on a post with a few replies, so that not to enter in the middle of another discussion.
  
  Clarissa, would you like to open a new “Ask Clarissa” post, which body could include a link to the previous one? Because of so many comments, it’s hard to post / read new comments on the current one.
  
  Stringer Bell, you may be ardently pro-Palestinian, but describing my desire to share something painful (partly, since Clarissa is also a Jew, even if not Israeli) as “perform your hasbara duties” is simply disgusting. I have worked with a man who lost his son, my classmate lost a cousin, every day a terrorist act may kill more people, including us. On first of May, only four days ago, 19-year-old Sheli Dadon “was found murdered in Migdal Ha-Emek while on her way to a job interview.”
  
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3. Stille (@aperfectbalance)
  
  May 5, 2014
  
  Irrelevant to the post’s topic, sure – but discussions often don’t stay on-topic much around here, as this thread shows ;). I wouldn’t dare call it garbage though. Also, I’m sure Clarissa can keep her comment threads the way she likes them without the need of backseat moderators.
  
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Stringer Bell

May 5, 2014

Glad that someone else noticed this, too. There are more appropriate places on this blog where you can perform your hasbara duties, el.

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Alexander

May 5, 2014

With all due respect: no.

This is of course all just words – very few people are expecting anything to come of such a petition except so that they themselves can feel good about having ‘done something’.

But if it came to pass, if we were to actually blacklist Russia, then we could expect the following:

– A completely ineffective embargo, penalizing American companies who complied while allowing enormous loopholes for those who did not. Europe will not cut off it’s energy supplier and China will be more than happy to open a back channel that keeps America’s eyes focused on Europe.

– American expenditures of armed forces to Europe, as we once again play chumps to a continent full of ingrates.

– Russia actively supporting (further, if not already) hostile forces throughout the Middle East, leading to greater loss of American life and treasure.

– Increasingly likely instance of war in Eastern Europe, which in addition to massive loss of life, would certainly cause massive damage to our sattelite networks and cyber infrastructure.

– Which in turn, would almost certainly lead to China deciding it had business with Japan and Taiwan that now was a good time to go ahead and settle. And, oh joy, more American military commitments.

– For good measure, militarization of space.

Now not all of these need happen, but if such a petition is to be more than just feel-good words, then one must honestly accept that some of them will.

And frankly, it’s not my cause. Ukraine had the option to guarantee its own independence, and it chose not to do so; so much easier to save the money and take the word of another power to take care of that for you. Europe has had decades to get it’s shit together to defend its own continent: not only has it decided not to do so, it has indebted itself on social programs, imported masses of people who have no reason whatsoever to give their lives to Vaterland or King and Country or La Republique… and then sneered at America for being so backward as to deign to spend on guns when there are those without butter.

If Europeans can’t be bothered to prepare for their own defense, we should not do so for them.

So you certainly have my sympathies (for – and pretty much only for – the Ukranian everyman whose country was stolen from him). But I won’t give you false hopes and empty promises of support because you don’t have my life and coin, and I won’t support the sacrifice of my countrymen’s either.

And I would bet you that the majority of signatures on that petition, spent every opportunity to belittle and oppose any show of American force and strength. I bet that you’ll find a fair number of those “won’t it be a good day when the Air Force has to have bake sales and the schools get billions” bumper stickers among the group. Well… their man is in the White House.

The irony, here, is that on this alone I’m glad Obama got in: if John McCain were president right now, we’d probably be reenacting the battle of Kursk right about now.

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Clarissa

May 5, 2014

“If Europeans can’t be bothered to prepare for their own defense, we should not do so for them.”

– It’s kind of too late to say this after Ukraine has delivered 100% of what it agreed to deliver under Budapest treaties and the US/Russia delivered 0%.

“But I won’t give you false hopes and empty promises of support because you don’t have my life and coin, and I won’t support the sacrifice of my countrymen’s either.”

– You already gave them back when your country signed the Budapest agreements. Were you personally opposing the agreements then? Signing petitions to oppose them?

“But I won’t give you false hopes and empty promises of support because you don’t have my life and coin, and I won’t support the sacrifice of my countrymen’s either.”

– Since when is stating the obvious such a huge sacrifice? All that’s being asked here is that the obvious facts be recognized.

This is like Orwell’s 1984 where people willfully erase their memories of very recent past.

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Alexander

May 5, 2014

No. *I* didn’t do any of those things. And as my government has made it ever so clear how much it values the unchanging nature of it’s social contract to *me*, I see very little reason to sacrifice myself for a contract made before my birth. But as it is, yes, any nation that signs away it’s own defense has already signed away its independence: it’s just a question of who the master is.

I recognize the obvious facts. The obvious facts are this petition is either a feel-good sham, in which case I won’t sign; or it will lead to some very bloody and expensive repercussions, which I’m not willing to pay. Demanding a cause means taking responsibility for the effects.

I erase nothing of the past. I just don’t see why I should do something that will increase the likelihood of me or mine dying because of some obviously stupid treaty.

We’ll see more of this coming. You hear all the Europeans and White Americans saying that we need immigration from third world countries so that we have a work force to pay for our benefits: let’s see how that holds up in ten, twenty years time. Let’s see how many Hispanic young men feel themselves beholden to effective servitude so that a dying tribe of Anglos can have its early retirements and state-of-the-art hospitals.

I’m just getting out in front of the rush!

Ukraine got screwed. But Eastern Europe has been getting screwed by Russians, Western Europeans, and Turks for the better part of a millennium now – you’d think by now they’d know promises to them are worth less than nothing. I recognize that there was little the average Ukrainian could do to prevent it, or prevent his leaders from selling him out. I think any Ukrainian who would want to go back under the Russian boot an idiot or a Quisling-in-waiting. I won’t claim otherwise.

But worth the deaths of me and mine? Not a jot. And there’s know way you can honestly claim that that petition, *should it actually be taken seriously and implemented as policy*, would not drastically increase the odds of such.

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Alexander

May 5, 2014

Not before my birth – I don’t know why but with the Orwell comment I read 1994 as 1984, which obviously makes no sense. Still, at the tender age of seven I exempt myself from any blame for not being more active in that regard. And as it becomes increasingly obvious that the political class will do what it will, regardless of the party, regardless of popular opinion… I don’t think being involved makes much difference anyway.

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May 5, 2014

I think you might appreciate this guy. 😉 http://www.ottawasun.com/2014/05/02/passport-to-war

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Anonymous

May 5, 2014

Is there a Canadian petition that I can sign?

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Anonymous

May 5, 2014

Is there a petition that Canadians can sign?

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Anonymous

May 5, 2014

My comments don’t seem to be showing up – not sure if you’ve disabled the comments for this thread. You’ve received some unhelpful comments here but please know that there are many of us in the West and in neighboring Eastern Europe who DO support Ukrainian unity and independence from Russia. I’m afraid that many of the western pro-Putinists just don’t get it. It is easy to take a not-my-problem approach to this crisis when you have never experienced Russian tanks rolling into your country.

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Clarissa

May 5, 2014

I’m sorry, it took me a while to approve the comments because I was out.

Thank you for the support! I’m generally deeply disappointed with the reaction I got to this post. It’s OK not to sign the petition, it isn’t like I know who signed and who didn’t. But the complete incapacity of many people to understand that this is a deeply painful issue and that their “opinions” are not likely to be appreciated when my people are dying at the hands of invaders is very disappointing to me.

So I’m very grateful for your comments.

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1. Alexander
  
  May 6, 2014
  
  That’s unfair. It’s understood that it is painful. It’s understood that it is an injustice to your people. But you’re advocating petitioning the United States government to take an action that, traditionally, is considered an act of war. For *my* people’s sake, that trumps. My people do not exist to serve as cannon fodder to protect your people, and again – you’ve taken the conversation beyond empathy and sympathy when you petition the Commander in Chief of the United States army to take action against a major military power.
  
  I’m also unsure why “opinions” is in quotations. Are you suggesting it’s not a real opinion?
  
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May 6, 2014

// I’m generally deeply disappointed with the reaction I got to this post. […] the complete incapacity of many people to understand that this is a deeply painful issue

I reread my comments, and wanted to apologize for putting them under this particularly painful post.

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Clarissa

May 6, 2014

“I reread my comments, and wanted to apologize for putting them under this particularly painful post.”

– Oh, I wasn’t referring to you at all.

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spotted

May 11, 2014

this speaks for itself http://youtu.be/678n97eBQoI

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