Catalonians Are Voting

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Clarissa

September 27, 2015

I’m being asked why I don’t support the independence of Catalonia when I did support the independence of Ukraine back in 1991.

In Ukraine, more than 90% of people voted for independence. That’s an overwhelming, unassailable majority. In Catalonia (Scotland, Quebec, etc), the break down is 50/50, and if independence does manage to squeak by, it will be by a couple of percentage points.

Besides, Ukrainians were ready to pay for their independence, and did pay, and are still paying. Catalonians, on the other hand, are demonstrating childish behavior when they declare they will continue being part of the EU even though the EU doesn’t want them.

Still, if Catalonians do act stupidly and vote for independence, I don’t think anybody should detain them by force or do anything violent to them.

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9 responses to “Catalonians Are Voting”

cliff arroyo

September 27, 2015

not to mention….

It wasn’t all that long ago that Catalonia overwhelmingly approved a constitution that specifically disallows referendums of the kind they’re asking for.

The pro-independence side arguments are laughably insane. With a straight face they’re telling people that there is no downside whatsoever and that they won’t inhereit any of the current Spanish debt and Spain will continue to pay pensions to people in an independent Catalonia.

They also clearly don’t believe the EU when it tells them very clearly that they will exit it and have to renegotiate entry.

I’m not sure about Schengen but what interest would Spain have in not controling the border?

The one possible upside of independence would be freedom from the Euro and it’s pseudo currency union that has no real up sides for countries in Southern Europe.

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1. Clarissa
  
  September 27, 2015
  “It wasn’t all that long ago that Catalonia overwhelmingly approved a constitution that specifically disallows referendums of the kind they’re asking for.”
  
  Exactly! So much talk about the democracy and the Transition and the constitution, and now all of a sudden what, fuck the constitution?
  
  “With a straight face they’re telling people that there is no downside whatsoever and that they won’t inhereit any of the current Spanish debt and Spain will continue to pay pensions to people in an independent Catalonia.”
  
  This is childish, simply childish. It’s a “let everything be good and nothing be bad” independence.
  
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cliff arroyo

September 27, 2015

A couple more points.

It sends a terrible message on autonomy and Catalonian independence would be used in a lot of places as an argument in granting more regional autonomy (something I’m mostly in favor of).

Catalonian independence would probably roll back popular support for Catalan outside the single province (since a lot of it seems more mandated than real). The strongest support is in Catalonia proper excluding Barcelona. I wouldn’t exclude indpendence from lessening support for the language inside Catalonia but that would take longer.

I’m convinced that the independistes are (among other things) crooks like the one who had secret bank accounts that he had forgotten about. Expect large amounts of money to disappear and within a year of independence it’ll be the new Greece. At least the people would still have Spain to blame…..

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1. Clarissa
  
  September 27, 2015
  
  There is absolutely some sort of very deep-seated corruption underneath all this. The leaders of the Catalonian independence brouhaha are all very shady, sleazy characters who are playing a game of their own. And the people are eating it all up. Gosh, that’s so pathetic.
  
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  1. bornwithastar
    
    September 27, 2015
    
    Your assessment is totally right. Using independence to hide their consistent corruption for more than 25 years.
    
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cliff arroyo

September 27, 2015

should be: “as an argument against granting more regional autonomy (something I’m mostly in favor of).”

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NG

September 27, 2015

“In Catalonia (Scotland, Quebec, etc), the break down is 50/50, and if independence does manage to queak by, it will be by a couple of percentage points.”

Well you were right.

“Junts pel Sí, representing parties from the left and right, as well as grassroots independence activists, captured 39.7% of the vote, while CUP received 8.2%. The result leaves the separatists with 47.9% of the vote, shy of the 50%, plus one seat, that they would have needed if Sunday’s vote had been a real referendum.”

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/sep/28/catalan-separatists-win-election-and-claim-it-as-yes-vote-for-breakaway

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cliff arroyo

September 28, 2015

So they didn’t achieve the majority they wanted and they’re still hailing it as a historic turning point….

I guess there’s no equivalent to sinvergüenza in Catalan…..

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1. Clarissa
  
  September 28, 2015
  
  The independentists are saying that these results demonstrated that they have a mandate from the people to push on for independence. It’s like you show them the middle finger and they interpret it as a mandate to press on. Hopeless.
  
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