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A Propositional Nation

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Clarissa

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Here’s a question to ponder. We’ve been hearing a lot from the leaders of both political parties that America is based on a set of beliefs, and anybody who shares them is automatically American.

But how do we know anybody’s beliefs? Because they say so? Words are cheap.

Also, what do we do in cases like Zohran Mamdani who gets elected to a position of great power and immediately declares that he’s against American principles and wants the opposite ones?

When words become more important than reality, the results are always bad. Propositional or credal mean “based on words.” A propositional nation means no nation.

22 responses to “A Propositional Nation”

  1. cliff arroyo Avatar
    cliff arroyo

    “A propositional nation”

    I like to ask: “Propositional? Okay, what’s the proposition?” and I never get anything coherent as an answer beyond a set of undefined buzzwords and/or word salad and wishful thinking.

    The idea did have some merit at one point, it was that rather than being based on narrow ethnic grounds, it was based on language (American English) culture (mainstream American norms) and general political orientation (individualistic, meritocratic, etc) so that those from a number of different European (or neighboring) countries could come, let assimilation work and their children would be American rather than German or Mexican or Greek, the way that Klara is American rather than Ukrainian or russian (or Canadian for that matter)

    But that approach requires pretty strong pressure for assimilation which can’t really be enforced at present. It absolutely can’t survive awful ideas like ‘open borders’ or ‘multiculturalism’…

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    1. Clarissa Avatar
      Clarissa

      And we have to be able to name these American norms, which is now impossible because it’s been deemed racist to bring them up.

      Liked by 1 person

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      1. bluebird of bitterness Avatar
        bluebird of bitterness

        Bingo.

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  2. overgrownhobbit Avatar
    overgrownhobbit

    Christian sects manage to have, use, and be defined by creeds. The credo (I believe) is so well-defined, children can recite it. The members understand it, and to be sure they do, are regularly taught it.

    Finally, and most importantly, defying the creed results in penalties, including expulsion.

    Because the several States and the United States of America are Christian nations, they are well-suited to having a creed, e.g. the Declaration of Independence, and a catechism: the Constitution.

    Like the Sabbath, however, the creeds are made for men, not men for the creeds. Change the men, the creed fails. Or is replaced.

    In the case of Current Year and Vichy America, we can see what the creed is by the what is taught, recited, and enforced.

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  3. Avatar
    Anonymous

    This is late-stage democracy: graft, decadent and increasingly dumb elites, overcentralization, barbarian invasions.

    There may still be a chance at some kind of reform to keep the republic going for a while, but it would require some intense maneuvering, effective crushing of (some) states’ political independence, probably violence. What’s going on in MN right now is not new and not limited to MN, it’s just the first time the public has had such a big glimpse of the machine with its hood open. Large numbers of people finally getting an inkling: oh, wait, this has something to do with why I and my family are struggling financially. People may not be able to see the connection (deficit spending = inflation = everything gets more expensive, but you don’t make more money), but they know it’s connected, and they’re upset.

    What will– must– come out over the next weeks, is the financial connection between the massive fraud, and the civil servants (elected and unelected) who are not just complicit, but who are getting a cut. There’s no way anything that large is going on, for that long, without a LOT of .gov employees on the take. Are our prisons large enough? Do we bring back the old “prison farm” and hard-labor sentencing? It’s not nice, but it’s effective.

    If there’s any hope for the country, it’s going to be a public financial audit of dang near everything: I hope with all my heart that the heroes of this generation, the guys our kids look up to and want to be like in five or ten years, turn out to be forensic accountants and indie journalists. That’ll mean that as a country, we turned things around.

    I’m not super optimistic about that. The more details emerge, the more this looks like a large number of states– at bare minimum CA, MA, NY, MD, OH, IL, NC, WA, OR, PA, and ME, probably others (maybe AR, AZ, NM, UT, WI, SC, MO as well), may have had their entire electoral and bureaucratic apparatus captured and subverted to enrich a small subclass of people who run everything there, and then conspired to fraud themselves more electoral seats, siphon money from the fedgov, using migrants as pawns, and then using that fraudulent funding and political leverage against… all the other states, as well as against rural populations in their own states who generally object to them… and to armor themselves against investigation and prosecution. Nobody inside their states can get at them (this whole thing makes the . Only the feds. And if they also own enough people at the federal level, they’re industrial steel ticks that can’t be removed.

    How do you even have a state, when it’s that corrupt? Do you have to fire everybody, cancel their charter, and run it as a US territory until they can get their shite together?

    Would bet at this point that lefties entirely stop bringing up those mysterious MN politician assassinations. The dude did say Walz told him to do it.

    Given the obvious ineptitude of the fraudsters… you gotta wonder how much of the money actually went to them. Would bet it was surprisingly little, given the number of public servants who had to be in on it.

    -ethyl

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    1. Clarissa Avatar
      Clarissa

      I know a guy, a Vietnam war veteran, who tried to raise chickens and sell eggs. Didn’t want any subsidies. Just wanted to be left alone to sell his excellent quality eggs. I don’t think I have to narrate what happened next.

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      1. Avatar
        Anonymous

        Anybody who’s tried to sell or buy fresh eggs in the last ten years knows the answer to that one.

        File under “overcentralization”.

        We have already developed sub rosa cash-only black markets for fresh food. Not enough of them yet. You have to know somebody, maybe have someone vouch for you. It is easier to buy fentanyl where I live.

        -ethyl

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        1. Clarissa Avatar
          Clarissa

          Some people are overregulated into oblivion while others get millions in subsidies for what is, at best, an unsanitary, unsupervised home babysitting service. And I mean, that’s the best-case scenario.

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    2. oldcowboy3 Avatar
      oldcowboy3

      methylethyl

      Suspect that all one can really do is to stand your ground. Doubt the guillotine is possible; but have observed that any of us that manage a slip knot as a finish on a fishing fly could likely tie a noose. Maybe ponder a return to flogging and exile ;-D

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      1. Avatar
        Anonymous

        I think public flogging and exile are *really excellent* ideas whose time has certainly arrived. Again.

        -ethyl

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  4. Avatar
    Anonymous

    Would be totes OK, at this point, with rounding up all the “migrants” from hellholes like Venezuela, Haiti, Somalia, Afghanistan, etc, parking them all in military-supervised refugee camps until you’ve got enough for an invasion force, and then shipping them all back to the home country *at the same time*. Right to the capitol.

    They’ve had years of the blessings of first-world civilization now. Let them bring it back home as a gift, eh?

    Liked by 1 person

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    1. oldcowboy3 Avatar
      oldcowboy3

      LOL, are you sure ;-D

      Liked by 1 person

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      1. Clarissa Avatar
        Clarissa

        Love it.

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  5. Stringer Bell Avatar
    Stringer Bell

    By the way, the people who are pushing this creedal bullshit on the right are the “kosher” right (Shapiro, Lindsay, Weiss, Kisin, Berry, even Benjamin Netanyahu lol) and they call any opposition to it as woke right. “Oh, you’re thinking of the nation in terms of ethnic identity and not the constitution? You’re just like BLM!”

    Which is why I was so surprised you and cliff fell for the woke right nonsense.

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  6. Stringer Bell Avatar
    Stringer Bell

    The people on the “right” pushing the propositional nation:

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  7. Stringer Bell Avatar
    Stringer Bell

    Funny thing is they don’t even care for the propositions if they’re inconvenient to them. Evil people.

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    1. Clarissa Avatar
      Clarissa

      I particularly love the “we “.

      We need to limit the first amendment. – Who are we? – The government.

      I’m not entirely sure I understand what this dude has to do with the US government and I’m afraid to find out.

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  8. cliff arroyo Avatar
    cliff arroyo

    OT: The Peace President is bombing Caracas…. (no links because you can find them in multiple languages very quickly….).

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    1. Clarissa Avatar
      Clarissa

      Wow, just one I decided to oversleep and this happens.

      Putin must be so livid.

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  9. Avatar
    Anonymous

    So… we apparently just kidnapped Maduro and his wife? I’m so confused.

    -ethyl

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    1. cliff arroyo Avatar
      cliff arroyo

      “we apparently just kidnapped Maduro and his wife?”

      Hey Oslo! Get that Peace Prize ready!

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  10. Avatar
    Anonymous

    https://x.com/rawsalerts/status/2007373649855258785

    Is this person saying… “he hasn’t finished sweeping”?

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A conservative literary critic and college professor

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