Have you seen these Romney Calculators that seem to be the latest fad on Liberal websites? My blogroll is filled to the brim with them, articles about them, and calculations based on them.
I so hope that this “Romney is rich which is why you shouldn’t vote for him” spiel will not become the axis of the Liberal Presidential elections campaign. There are very few things that Obama’s supporters can do to lose him the election. This, however, is one of them. Trying to milk class resentments of the Americans? Really? This strategy is going to be extremely counterproductive.
I’ve been living in this country since 2003 and I have not seen a widespread hatred of wealth. People hate the government, the IRS, the bureaucrats, the “elitist intellectuals”, etc. But they don’t hate the rich. Everybody hopes to strike it rich which turns people who make a lot of money into role models. If Romney were a jet-setting heir to a fortune who hasn’t worked a day in his life, then there is a slight chance one could successfully invoke class resentment toward him. But he isn’t.
Remember 2004? That was the moment when the entirety of the Liberal discourse on President Bush was reduced to the supremely ineffective “Bush lied!” mantra. Every time I heard it, I’d whisper, “What are they doing? This is a guaranteed way to lose the elections!” And that was exactly what happened. Of course, the Dems also had no candidate to run a against Bush, just like the Republicans don’t have a viable candidate right now. If the “Romney Calculator” type of strategy continues, though, Romney is likely to become such a candidate.
Take me, for example. I don’t like Romney and I’d never support him for President. Still, after I saw the Romney Calculator, I’m less opposed to him than before.
Of course, if people who have been living in this country for a longer time than I have tell me that there are massive class resentments against high earners that can be successfully exploited in the US, I’ll believe you. If I’m not seeing something, this doesn’t mean it isn’t there.
What do you, folks, think? Is the Romney Calculator a winning strategy?
Clarissa's Blog 
I’m still a big believer in peoples’ abilities to make good decisions. And that’s why I believe that when the entire election platform is “look at how bad he is” is doomed to failure. As you point out, Kerry never convinced Americans what he was good at – too much time spent trying to bash Bush. Same thing in Canada – the Liberals and NDP spend all their time trying to convince us that there is a ‘hidden agenda’ of the conservatives (if, after 6 years, they have a hidden agenda, I don’t think they remember where they hid it) rather than showing us compelling reasons to put our confidence in them.
That’s where I think Obama’s ’08 campaign did a great job – I don’t remember him talking about McCain at all – it was all about HIS vision. Even if I don’t agree with him on all points, I can at least respect someone who puts their ideals out there for evaluation.
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I agree completely.
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I personally agree with your sentiments. For instance, every time I hear the terms “fair share” and “vulture capitalism”, I just roll my eyes.
That said, America is not what it used to be. Fewer people take responsibility for their actions, and more of them expect government to provide for them. Furthermore, as an increasingly smaller percentage of the population pays the lion’s share of taxes, I fear that this strategy is an effective one. After all, every entitlement program is a good one to someone who pays no federal income tax.
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It makes me very happy to know that rational Republicans exist and to hear what they have to say.
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Ahahaha it would take Romney 7 hours to make what I earn in a year. It would take me a Planck time to be a more reasonable and compassionate human being than him, and I’m a hopeless romantic who doesn’t even like most people.
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The aim of the calculator is slightly different. It is not about being rich but about Romney managing to portray himself as out of touch. The calculator simply reinforces this message.
Think of the (effective) republican campaign motivated by Kerry windsurfing off Nantucket Island.
Also America can, at times, come to despise wealth. Witness for example Michael Milken, who ended up being prosecuted in trumped up charges** simply to satisfy the mood of the people.
**in the end prosecutors had to resort to threatening to jail his brother before he pled guilty to six minor violations out of a total of 98 major charges. This is not to say he was innocent or not. It simply shows the weakness of the government’s case.
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I could care less how much Romney makes. What infuriates me is the rate at which he is taxed. The lower capital gains tax is nothing but a loophole for rich people to avoid paying taxes at the same rate as middle class workers.
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Ed,
Just a point of clarification. Romney pays the same tax rate on capital gains as any other American.
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This is disingenuous. Capital gains income is a small percentage of the income of most Americans and a large percentage of income of rich Americans so it is dishonest to try to portray this a fair and equal tax law.
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“any other American”
Not me!
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““any other American”
Not me!”
– You would if you had capital gains.
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Yes, he does pay the same rate as any other American rich enough to have capital gains investments.
My point is that this disproportionately benefits rich people. It is very unfair that this income is taxed way lower just because it is not “earned” income. If anything, it should be taxed higher since you are not actually working for it.
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“You would if you had capital gains”
I know and I don’t.
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Not true! My capital gains are tax-sheltered in a 403b plan, so I pay nothing now. But when/if I retire, these capital gains will be taxed as ordinary income.
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You do realize that capital gains is taxed twice, which is why it is lower in the first place. For instance, when a company issues a dividend, it already paid 35% federal tax on that income. The government then taxes the recipient an additional 15% on that post tax income. When you invest money in the stock market, it is usually post tax income. You then pay taxes on top of that when you realize capital gains.
Capital gains taxes have always been low in this country, and for good reason – to encourage investment. In fact, I also misspoke. If your ordinary income tax rate is 15% or lower, your capital gains tax rate is actually 0%. The poor actually have a lower capital gains tax rate than the wealthy and the middle class.
Overturning a system that worked for decades simply for the sake of “fairness” does not strike me as prudent economic policy.
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” If your ordinary income tax rate is 15% or lower, your capital gains tax rate is actually 0%. The poor actually have a lower capital gains tax rate than the wealthy and the middle class.”
– It isn’t just the poor who have the federal income tax of 15% and lower. My husband and I pay 12%, and we are definitely middle class. I find the US system of taxation for people like me to be fantastic in comparison to what I experienced in Canada.
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“The poor actually have a lower capital gains tax rate than the wealthy and the middle class.”
I wonder what else the poor have less of.
“a system that worked for decades”
Questionable. Relative.
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Fantastic in that you might pay a smaller percentage of your income, but terrible in terms of what you get back. Compare for example the overall tax rates of a resident of California and one of Ontario. The California rate is somewhat lower but said resident would get very little in return. In contrast the resident of Ontario pays a somewhat higher tax rate but it comes with very good public schools, free health care, unemployment insurance, a welfare check one can actually live on (very, very tight), safe and policed cities, cheap universities and streets with no potholes.
Which one is the fantastic deal, may I ask?
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Culture Club: if you enter an email, any email, even a completely fictitious one, then I won’t have to approve your comments every time and people won’t have to wait until they pass moderation. This will allow you to participate in discussions in real time. Just a suggestion.
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I’ve never lived in California but I lived in Quebec and my family still does. For a person of my age and income, I have to say that you are not getting a good deal in Quebec.
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Exactly, Americans do not hate the rich, but they do hate the rich they perceive as out of touch. There is not class resentment in the American public, but there is populism. In fact, it work wonders for Republicans in 2004, portraying John Kerry as an out of touch millionaire. And Newt Gingrich did exactly the same last week in South Carolina, to great results. I agree that saying he is rich will not work, but “rich” and “out of touch” could. Americans like cheap populism.
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Yes, I think the cost of milk question is always a great idea.
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The Romney calculator is boring and tells me nothing about why someone should care about his vast wealth. I shrug.
Notice that nobody hates Oprah for being extremely rich. Then again, Oprah is an extreme outlier among the super rich.
She was born poor, black and female and didn’t inherit wealth and does not make most of her fortune from shuffling money around. She made it in entertainment. Plus she had this schtick where she had annual shows where she gave away things. If she has any arrogant tendencies she keeps them well under wraps.
Romney is rather more typical of the super rich (breaks down characteristics of the .1%).
Mitt Romneywas born white, male and rich (most of the richest people in America did not make their own money) to a former governor of Michigan & CEO of General Motors and named after the head of hotel chain who happened to be his father’s personal friend. He made the bulk of his additional fortune by shuffling money around. Plus he goes around saying tone deaf stuff like 300k is not a lot of money to earn in a year for speaker’s fees, which sounds tone deaf to people who make 30k a year or 250k.
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The problem is not that some people make too much money. That should not even be part of the debate. It is nobody’s business how much someone else is making as long as it is legally and fairly earned.
The real problem is that too many people make too little money. If everyone earned enough to make a comfortable living, had good career prospects, were able to buy a house, send their kids to college, etc. they would not complain about someone making more money than them. As it is right now, the minimum wage equals poverty. Especially if you live in a city like New York.
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As we say in my culture, it’s better to be rich and healthy than even poor and sick. 🙂
Of course, it would be great if that were possible but it obviously isn’t, so what can we do? No society has been able to generate enough welath to provide this for everybody.
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You are right, it is not easy and it would require a collective effort that we don’t have.
But we can start by recognizing the problem is not people making too much money but people making too little money. It just seems to be like many liberals focus mainly on the former and that really is not the problem.
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ed: if you enter an email, any email, even a completely fictitious one, then I won’t have to approve your comments every time and people won’t have to wait until they pass moderation. This will allow you to participate in discussions in real time. Just a suggestion.
“But we can start by recognizing the problem is not people making too much money but people making too little money. It just seems to be like many liberals focus mainly on the former and that really is not the problem.”
– That is a brilliant insight. I wish I had it first. 🙂
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Even if the company paid 0% Federal tax?
I don’t see why you combine corporate tax with individual tax. Couldn’t I also argue that normal earned income is also taxed twice? Am I missing something?
I don’t think the system has “worked.” If it had, we would not be in our current mess.
If the current trend continue of people having to work more and earn less, I don’t think the system is working and I don’t believe it is sustainable.
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Romney lost me as a supporter when he strapped his dog in a cage on top of his station wagon and went on a several hundred miles trip. I don’t care how long ago that was, or that it only happened once; it is a stunning act of cruelty and a reveal of his lack of empathy/caring/kindness.
He is an intelligent man and had the cash to board the dog or even pay someone else to transport the dog if he couldn’t transport it safely inside his car.
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That’s one of the weirdest stories I have ever heard. I don’t even want to imagine what the poor animal experienced.
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Technically is that any different than carrying a horse in a trailer behind the truck?
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I see a slight difference between this and this.
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Apparently the dog was so scared that it fouled itself, and Romney hosed it off at a gas station…left it in the cage and took off again. So on top of being scared, the dog was then wet, with no protection from the wind.
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