The reason why I decided to stick with Ilan Pappe’s book and keep reading it even after the “greedy Jews” started making a regular appearance is that I do think that there is an important story to tell here. I kept hoping that Pappe would finally get himself together, get over the “sly, tricky, exploitative Shylocks Jews versus simple-minded, hard-working and trusting savages Palestinians” dichotomy, and start discussing this issue with the seriousness that it deserves. This never really happened, however.
The greatest problem I have with the book is that Pappe chooses the culprit for the entire conflict from the start and then massages the story to fit his predetermined explanation. This culprit for the author of The Ethnic Cleansing of Palestine is Zionism. In his rush to pile every possible evil at the feet of this particular bugbear, Pappe often makes himself sound not a little ridiculous. The following quote made me practically weep with laughter:
It was one British officer in particular, Orde Charles Wingate, who made the Zionist leaders realise more fully that the idea of Jewish statehood had to be closely associated with militarism and an army, first of all to protect the growing number of Jewish enclaves and colonies inside Palestine but also – more crucially – because acts of armed aggression were an effective deterrent against the possible resistance of the local Palestinians.
I really wonder how all those other countries figured out that statehood requires an army without this hugely crucial Orde Charles Wingate character, whoever he is.
What I find very curious about the discussions about the formation of Israel is how scandalized everybody gets because Israel followed the exact same nationalist journey as every single other nation-state in the world. A journey towards nationhood is always – and I mean, without exception, always, toujours, siempre – bloody, miserable, filled with lies, rewriting of history, xenophobia, etc. That’s the nature of nationalism.
Before you get to wave your flag and feel all warm and fuzzy about doing that, a lot of effort needs to be made to endow that piece of fabric with meaning. The more disparate the elements that go into your particular imagined community, the more blood needs to be spilled to make the myth of a nation mean something.
So what do we have in the case of Israel? People from all over the world come together to create a myth of a nation. These are people who have been hugely traumatized very recently and who see themselves (not unreasonably, I might add) as having been abandoned by the entire world to a horrible extermination and needing to fend for themselves. In their project of construction a nation, they use the same tools as everybody before them used: violence, ethnic cleansing, falsification of history, etc. What is so very surprising about this story? And more importantly, what makes these people’s journey towards nationhood worse than yours? Except for the fact that yours happened fifteen seconds before, of course.
I believe that the story of the ethnic cleansing of Palestine needs to be told. But to tell it in order to condemn Zionism makes just as much sense as narrating the crimes of the Holocaust in order to condemn Hitler’s left pinky finger. Of course, the reason why nobody wants to look at the Israeli-Palestinian conflict in terms of nationalism is that this would involve letting go of bashing the vile Jews (or the vile Arabs, whatever your personal preference is) for a moment and looking at how the nation whose flag you worship came into existence.
Clarissa's Blog 
I am surprised how a man “born in Haifa to German-Jewish parents who fled Nazi persecution in the 1930s” (from wiki) used all those stereotypes against Jews. Now he is in UK, which just recently had numerous colonies, including Palestine. Isn’t it ironic?
Will you write your opinion of his proposed solutions? From wiki: “He is a prominent supporter of the One State Solution envisaging one state for Palestinians and Israelis.” Didn’t he write a word about it in his book?
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Is it Nationalism or religionism? Ultimately a Jewish homeland is based on a religion, nothing more, nothing less. That same battle is being fought inside of Israel and every other nation in the world. The only thing that connects a European Jew and an Israeli Jew is the idea that they are the chosen ones and have a right to that little strip of land. A fascinating point is that Evangelical Christians have a need for that also, without it their prophecies will not come to be. Why do you think Pat Robertson and all those other fanatics so steadfastly support a Jewish state? It definately isnt because they think they will be in heaven with them. 😦
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Many people in Israel are not religious. This is a nation-state, just like any other. Religion is always a variable in the nation-states, but the nation-building is always the same irrespective of the religious situation.
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There is scholarly work analyzing the treatment of Palestinians during the formation of Israel compared to the treatment of Native Americans during the formation of the United States. From what I recall of the bit of it I’ve read, there is still something of a good/bad dichotomy, but it does address your point of nation formation.
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“There is scholarly work analyzing the treatment of Palestinians during the formation of Israel compared to the treatment of Native Americans during the formation of the United States. ”
– Now, this sounds like a study that has a lot of value!
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Rashid Khalidi’s – The Iron Cage – is a much better book as I said to you privately. While Khalidi is highly critical of Israel, he also shows how the Palestinian leadership failed their people miserably.
As a Jew who grew up believing fully in The State of Israel, it is sad and even embarrassing for me to see how Palestinians and Arabs are degraded and called names similar to what we Jews were called in prior times.
I also fail to see how a growing Palestinian population in the West Bank and Gaza are:
1. Not going to eventually explode – against the Israeli domination in far, far more deadly ways than has happened previously within the next 10-20 years or
2. Going to face an even more tragic – forced exile from much of the West Bank – to where I don’t know? or
3. Israel – is Not going to eventually become a “democratic” state eventually – in some type of “One State Solution” – which seems totally impossible today.
I would naively think and hope that Now – when Israel is “powerful” and when US interests are tied to supporting Israel – is the time when the U.S. and Israel should be pushing for a Palestinian State – that is real and lasting and not – a set of areas encircled by Jewish communities. While the politics in both the U.S. and Israel don’t support such “solutions” now – I can not imagine how positive solutions will be viable when – oil no longer dominates in the Middle East (e.g. The U.S. likely won’t care about the Middle East) and when the stalemate(s) of the present have dragged on further and the alienation between Palestinians will no doubt have grown.
Khalidi – writes well. I’d also look at the writings of John Mearsheimer such as at:
http://www.theamericanconservative.com/article/2009/may/18/00014/
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// Israel – is Not going to eventually become a “democratic” state eventually – in some type of “One State Solution” – which seems totally impossible today
You mean a state, in which Jews will be a minority? Not going to happen.
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“As a Jew who grew up believing fully in The State of Israel, it is sad and even embarrassing for me to see how Palestinians and Arabs are degraded and called names similar to what we Jews were called in prior times.”
– We had a neighbor back in Ukraine, a perfectly normal person. Not an angel but a normal person nevertheless. Then she moved to Israel. Twelve years later, my mother is talking to her on the phone and this lady whom we have known our entire lives suddenly announces, “The only good Arab is a dead Arab.” The horror that we experienced is not to be related in words. I still shake when I think of it.
“I also fail to see how a growing Palestinian population in the West Bank and Gaza are:
1. Not going to eventually explode – against the Israeli domination in far, far more deadly ways than has happened previously within the next 10-20 years or
2. Going to face an even more tragic – forced exile from much of the West Bank – to where I don’t know? ”
– I think it won’t be “either /or”. I think it will be “and.” I believe that Israel will provoke 1 to engage in 2 (or some version of it). Remember that a national identity (especially such a tenuous one) needs constant transfusions of actual blood.
“I would naively think and hope that Now – when Israel is “powerful” and when US interests are tied to supporting Israel – is the time when the U.S. and Israel should be pushing for a Palestinian State – that is real and lasting and not – a set of areas encircled by Jewish communities.”
– Why would they do that? Because they want to put an end to the conflict??? But they so obviously don’t. The US is extremely interested in having this festering sore in the Middle East. I agree that creating a Palestinian State would be a good solution here. But nobody is even remotely interested in doing that.
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Many people in Israel are not religious.(Clarissa)
This is irrelevant. Israel, like the USA is a democratic theocracy. Try getting elected in either nation while claiming you are an atheist, aint gonna happen. The basis for Israel as a nation is still completely tied to biblical(Torah) ideals. Oh, that and the collective guilt of most western nations. This is why it is easy for most to turn a blind eye to the nasty shit that they do.
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// Try getting elected in either nation while claiming you are an atheist, aint gonna happen.
Elected to where? Many Knesset members are atheists, at least, I always thought it was understood by everybody. F.e. Avigdor Lieberman (currently Member of the Knesset, Israeli Minister of Foreign Affairs and Deputy Prime Minister of Israel.) However, his party Yisrael Beiteinu, “whose electoral base are the immigrants from the former Soviet Union”, does not advocate a separation of religion and state in Israeli society.
I tried to search on Ben Gurion, the first Prime Minister of Israel, and found a paper “Judaism in Israel: Ben-Gurion’s Private Beliefs and Public Policy” with words:
“I will try to show that an enormous gap existed between Ben-Gurion
the political leader, the initiator of cohabitation with the religious parties,
and Ben-Gurion the man, who held radically anti-Halakha (Jewish Reli-
gious Law) views.”
I do agree that somebody advocating a separation of religion and state wouldn’t get many votes, but being not religious is a different thing.
I didn’t hear of Ariel Sharon, Ehud Olmert or Ehud Barak (all recent former Prime Ministers) being religious in private lives either. Am I wrong?
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Found this f.e.
http://www.jewishpost.com/archives/news/ehud-barak-lets-have-a-separation-of-state-and-religion-in-israel.html
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I do agree that somebody advocating a separation of religion and state wouldn’t get many votes, but being not religious is a different thing. (el)
Different as in, being not religious you get some votes, advocating separation of religion and state wont get you many votes. Hmmm, and the result is the same, you wont be leading any state that has a power base that is religious in nature, like the USA and Israel. There are many others also. The facts are, even if you are non religious you will be dealing with those religious groups if you hope to have any chance.
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I’m not sure why we are discussing religion all of a sudden. Nationalist mechanisms work exactly the same for the ultra-religious and the completely atheist, let me assure you. If in doubt, Google “nationalism in the FSU”.
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I guess that I am extremely “naive”. I like to think that while governments such as ours are deceitful and bend backwards to support those they are “dependent” upon – e.g. big monied interests, that more than token numbers of us “the people” like to resist. I would think that Israeli Jews – might see how they’ve been hurt by endless states of war. I would also think that the treatment of Palestinians by Jews – such as you (C) noted is more than bothersome to many Israeli Jews. While I agree with you that the U.S. Government seemingly doesn’t want peace, I would hope that eventually both Israeli and U.S. Jews would begin to see the bill of goods they face as hurting them.
I remember visiting a relative in Jerusalem about 30 years ago and hearing her talk about the past. The fancy dressmaking shop that her husband and she owned sold fancy dresses to both Arabs and Jews who had money. In 1967 – an old Arab man came to her shop and asked for her husband. He was sad to hear of his death and she then learned that he’d been their porter in the shop until the 1948 War separated them. For the several years until he died he insisted upon always carrying her bags for her when she went to Jerusalem’s Old City – (without accepting any payment from her).
Similar ties between neighboring peoples existed in Palestine – pre-1948. I can’t imagine how Palestinians today don’t have more anger towards Israeli Jews than they seem to have. “Reality” – over the past 54 years has taught them both that Israel is and will continue to be there and that IF there will be positive change, it will need to come through Non-Violence (with relatively few exceptions.)
Peace in Israel-Palestine – seems much more possible to me than peace between Iran and the U.S. “Non-Peace” – in both remains scary (though real) to me.
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Individual people are, of course, good and are opposed to the horrors that are now happening in the area. The problems begin when people bandy into groups and start defining themselves through their national identity. I hope to be mistaken but I see the Israeli government trying to escalate the situation with everything it has.
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The latest Uri’s column is exactly about the subject:
Both [Zionist and Palestinian] versions are utter nonsense – a mixture of propaganda, legend and hidden guilt feelings.
During the war I was a member of a mobile commando unit that was active all over the southern front. I was an eye-witness to what happened.
http://zope.gush-shalom.org/home/en/channels/avnery/1433515211
I still don’t understand why he sees “at least a symbolic return of an agreed number of refugees to Israeli territory” as necessary, unless it’s to ease his guilt feelings. Imo, or everybody returns, or nobody does. Otherwise, why let return one family, but not the other which wants it just as much? As all Israeli Jews, I am for “nobody returns” option, btw.
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Forgot to mention: Uri’s books may be a better source of knowledge than Ilan Pappe’s since he has actually experienced the events and doesn’t try to hide his ideology, unlike many authors who pretend to be neutral.
I found parts of “1948: A Soldier’s Tale” here:
https://books.google.co.il/books?id=8eHMAQAAQBAJ&pg=PT133&lpg=PT133&dq=1948:+A+Soldier%27s+Tale&source=bl&ots=Ep3UH__ypY&sig=CUPpXBxCLt7PIGzXI4EpON0xWPE&hl=iw&sa=X&ei=ifxxVfLyOKqu7gb_rIPwCg&ved=0CGsQ6AEwDg#v=onepage&q=1948%3A%20A%20Soldier's%20Tale&f=false
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