Children Are People

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Clarissa

November 25, 2012

I want to publish an exchange with reader Elizabeth as a separate post:

Elizabeth: Of all the children I know, exactly none of them would pass a grade in elementary school without their parents on their backs!

Clarissa: And now imagine living in a home where somebody, let’s say your husband, is constantly on your back about something he believes you need to do.

“Elizabeth, you need to be making more money. Why are you sitting there watching the TV? I said, you should be working extra. Hang up the phone now and go do some work. I will check to see how much you have done later.”

Or:

“Elizabeth, how many times did I tell you that you need to lose weight? Put down that sandwich now! Go do some exercise. Have you worked out today? How come I didn’t see it? Show me how you worked out. No, you need to work out some more.”

Imagine a year of this, day in and day out. How soon will your psyche – the psyche of a grown person – crack? Now imagine what this does to a child. Of course, you can always leave a husband who does this to you. A child has no place to go.

The saddest part of this is that these same parents get extremely incensed when I say that the reason why their kid is bullied at school is because s/he is so used to being bullied at home.

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12 responses to “Children Are People”

Elizabeth

November 25, 2012

Yes, I knew this had to do with me. To clarify, I really do think that tone and frequency are crucial factors. I don’t treat my boyfriend the way described here, and I don’t treat the kids I’m helping to raise that way. I do, however, tell my boyfriend when I need him to do more chores. (When he thinks it’s an unfair demand, he counters and we discuss. It’s all very civilized). I also tell the children I’m with what to do, simply because children are not born knowing that they can’t stick their hands into the fire. There’s a big difference, though, between reminding a child of things that are quite important to their well-being and nagging them unkindly or bothering them over pointless things (“Why are you walking that way? Can’t you just walk nicely?”). Children treated kindly and NOT nagged respond very well to polite requests, such that they needn’t be treated cruelly. I think this distinction was missing in the post entitled “Laziness,” unless you truly believe one should never guide, remind, or even command children at any time whatsoever, even in a kind and gentle way. That’s all I’m really saying.

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1. bloggerclarissa
  
  November 25, 2012
  
  No, like everything else on this blog, this has to do with me. 🙂 I’m trying to clarify some of my own issues in this way.
  
  Of course, it’s normal to remind people of things every once in a while. But when you are having to issue daily reminders about homework, something has got to be wrong. I keep wondering why almost none of my students managed to complete the format requirement to the final essay that I set out for them. My only explanation is that they are so used to having somebody sit by them guiding them through every assignment that they have no idea how to do this on their own.
  
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the twisted spinster

November 25, 2012

I somehow managed to get decent grades in everything but PhysEd without my parents on my back about school. And my father was a teacher! Though maybe it was because he was a teacher that he knew the real score… Seriously, though, it was just expected that I would do my best at school. Why? Because my parents had already seen that I like to learn, and they praised me when I did things like read, ask questions, and so on. The kids I’ve seen who don’t do great in school are always being nagged by their parents about it. (I was a slob because one thing I did get nagged about was cleaning my room.) Of course you won’t enjoy something you associate with parental bellyaching and general unpleasantness! My parents bought me books and took us kids to museums and on trips and so on. Learning about new things was fun to do, not some sort of chore you have to get over with so you can have fun. (This is leaving homework aside though. I didn’t like doing homework. But again I wasn’t nagged — if I didn’t do it and got a failing grade, that was considered enough of a lesson.)

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1. bloggerclarissa
  
  November 25, 2012
  
  This is exactly what I’m saying. Small kids are all hugely into learning. Just look at 3-year -olds with all the questions they ask. If these kids then somehow turn into apathetic lazy creatures, one has to wonder what made them this way. I will never believe that lack of reminders about homework is at fault.
  
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Elizabeth

November 25, 2012

Oh good, I thought I’d gone and irritated you! Time for me to grow a thicker skin, I guess.

The funny thing is, I’m actually a very hands-off “parent.” It’s just that every human relationship reasonably involves requests. Before the child figures out that she can’t go outside in below-freezing temps without a jacket, somebody has to be there to remind her. I really do think we agree pretty closely here though, it’s just a matter of phrasing.

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1. bloggerclarissa
  
  November 25, 2012
  
  I now feel like a scary ogre. 🙂
  
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musteryou

November 26, 2012

I totally agree. When I was a kid, I went through school and did everything I had to without constant parental agitation. That was easy. Actually, I’d internalized a lot of authoritarianism, so it was double easy. Then people started getting on my case because, “this is the way we do it.” After that, I had all number of problems with concentration, with motivation, with the ability to feel respect….

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1. bloggerclarissa
  
  November 26, 2012
  
  Yes, concentration, the most medicated issue among American kids today which is not even an issue. How can one be expected to develop concentration when the moment one tries to concentrate on something that interests one a crowd of bored relatives descend to drag one to a bizillion scheduled activities one has no interest in? Somehow, a kid who is concentrating on playing a game s/he likes is not good enough. No, the poor critter has to offer endless entertainment to adults who can’t concentrate worth a damn themselves.
  
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  1. musteryou
    
    November 26, 2012
    
    I think people feel that in the absence of a scary deity, “human nature” is incapable of standing alone and must be constantly cajoled into action.
    
    I was telling Mike yesterday that during the time I was a tutor for school-aged children, the only two students who were inner-motivated came from extremely religious families. One was a Coptic Christian, the other Catholic. In all of the other cases, numbering about 150, the parents expected the tutor to be a God stand-in, and impart knowledge magically to their child’s brain.
    
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Sarah

November 26, 2012

I’m very glad I got divorced. My ex-h is one of those parents who is constantly on at his kids to work, get good marks, be a good reflection on him, as though there was absolutely nothing else to them as people. They are punished harshly if they get bad marks.

I do not believe in any of that. Marks and work are a kid’s responsibility. If he doesn’t work and gets bad marks, that is a lesson. If the lesson is not learned and he cannot get to do the things he wants to do, that is also a lesson.

I see my role in making the child aware of actions (or non-action) and consequences, such as no work leads to bad marks which leads to not doing what you want to do later. They much prefer this approach because it makes them responsible and they feel respected. I am available to help if necessary, otherwise I let them get on with it.

They are very glad to be living with me.

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1. bloggerclarissa
  
  November 26, 2012
  
  “My ex-h is one of those parents who is constantly on at his kids to work, get good marks, be a good reflection on him, as though there was absolutely nothing else to them as people.”
  
  – I have to say, I’m very glad you got divorced, too. When a parent sees children in terms of what kind of reflection they are on him, that is very damaging and tragic to children. It’s great that your children have you.
  
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cliff arroyo

November 26, 2012

Well the phrase ‘be on somebody’s back’ will have very different meanings to different people. One person’s occasional polite reminders may be perceived as relentness nagging by another (and, roughly, vice versa).

Even the most studious children need reminders now and then to stay on track. How many and how forceful depend on the parent and child in question.

“the reason why their kid is bullied at school is because s/he is so used to being bullied at home”

That’s a dangerous and way too premature conclusion. I got bullied at school and was never bullied at home. If anything I kind of wish my parents had stepped up the frequency and intensity of reminders to keep up with my homework.

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