The ultrasound specialist says she can see “boy parts” on the ultrasound clearly. Which means we are having a boy!
This is very weird because I have no idea how to raise boys. I know exactly how to raise girls, but boys? Oy yoy yoy. And I don’t know where to look to learn. All that I have seen are the following two models:
1. An adoring, overwhelming, stifling mother who forms an unhealthy symbiosis with the son. The son then has extreme trouble forming a profound attachment to an adult partner and finds professional realization difficult.
2. A cold, distant mother. The son then makes the perfect husband for an adult partner but suffers from anxiety, depression, and low self-esteem.
Of course, now everybody will tell me to avoid the extremes and keep to the golden mean. Yes, sure, like I couldn’t have figured that on my own. In theory, this is all self-evident. In practice, however, I can’t replicate what I haven’t seen.
With a girl, for instance, I know how to teach her to be popular. But I can’t teach that to a boy because I’m not even sure what makes them popular and valued in their peer group. Also, I know what a girl needs from her mother because I used to be a girl. But what a boy needs is a complete mystery. Everybody I know has girls. Everybody at my department has girls, crowds of them. And the few people who have boys are men. I could be a father to a boy quite easily. It’s being the mother to a boy that is so hard.
So, dear readers, who are men. Now is the time to share. What did you want when you were small boys (the answer “a big shiny bike” is helpful, too)? What did your parents do that helped you become happy, self-assured, popular, and secure? What did they do not do or not do sufficiently? How much of a relationship do you have with your mother in adulthood?
I find it easier to communicate with men than with women, so this should not be too hopeless, right? RIGHT?
P.S. N. is really not helping. “Just imagine if he grows up and decides to join the army,” he says cheerfully. Well, N. will now be the one to have to teach him to use the potty and talk to him about sex and contraception, so we’ll see who has the last laugh. Somebody’d better learn to enjoy baseball, and fast.
Clarissa's Blog 
Raise him like a human being in progress, period.
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“With a girl, for instance, I know how to teach her to be popular”
WTF? I have a idea for you: “STOP BEING SO AUTISTIC, YOU WILL BECOME MORE POPULARRRRRRRR”
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“WTF? I have a idea for you: “STOP BEING SO AUTISTIC, YOU WILL BECOME MORE POPULARRRRRRRR””
– No, it’s actually the opposite. 🙂 It’s easier for autistics to be popular because we don’t care what people think and that is magnetically attractive.
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Sorry, I’m not popular so I don’t know what I’m talking about! 😉
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I am relieved. You have a different definition of “popular” than everyone else.
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“You have a different definition of “popular” than everyone else.”
– It seems like I have a different definition of everything than everyone else. 🙂 🙂 And that makes me popular. 🙂
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My friend, this ” I have no idea how to raise boys”, with all due respect makes no sense!) A girl can be so different from what your sister was at the time, that you would feel totally lost. Things that work for my daughter, when I tell them, other parents look at me with “what-the-hell-are-you-talking-about” faces. Each child is unique, and that’s the best thing about it. You’ll know what to do, you already raised somebody and the basics don’t change that much. And let me tell you, I bet sometimes, despite your experience, N. will come up with some decisions (with no experience at all that I know of) that will make more sense that those you would have taken guided by your experience. And that’s the beauty of it. So, rejoice, it’s a boy!
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“You’ll know what to do, you already raised somebody and the basics don’t change that much.”
– My sister and I are on the phone every day for an hour. And now imagine a 31-year-old man on the phone with his Mommy every day. 🙂 And now imagine the poor sod’s wife. 🙂 🙂 🙂
‘And let me tell you, I bet sometimes, despite your experience, N. will come up with some decisions (with no experience at all that I know of) that will make more sense that those you would have taken guided by your experience.”
– I REALLY hope so.
” So, rejoice, it’s a boy!”
– Yes, you are right!!!
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“A girl can be so different from what your sister was at the time, that you would feel totally lost. Things that work for my daughter, when I tell them, other parents look at me with “what-the-hell-are-you-talking-about” faces. Each child is unique, and that’s the best thing about it.”
Amen! This is so so true. Growing up, I had my own mix of interests and traits, some that are considered more stereotypically feminine and others considered boyish, and I can’t count the number of times growing up when I wished I could have been seen as I am instead of being pigeonholed (as girly girl or complete tomboy).
That’s the starting point – treat your kid like a human being and from the start, pay attention. One of my good friends has a boy, and she noticed, at age 5 or 6 months, that he loathed socks. Alway immediately took them off, even in the dead of winter, and burst into loud tears when she tried to put them back on. She felt his feet, realized he really wasn’t cold and was otherwise looking satisfied, so she left them off. She got evil looks and interfering comments from total strangers (“What are you doing? Aren’t you worried he’ll freeze? You’ll make him sick!”) and she shrugged them off. Anyway, the kid’s turning two soon, and has no problem now with shoes and socks. Most things are small and not worth stressing over or getting into a battle over with your kid.
Some kids love to be touched and hugged more, others need more space; some babies are more bright and peppy, others are more cranky and might not usually like it when people stick their faces two inches away from them and make cooing noises. They’ll give you cues, from the start, as to what they like and who they are.
Also, speaking of peer groups – one of my closest friends is a guy (a happy, well-adjusted guy) who in elementary school found it so hard to make friends because he was, from the start, the nerdiest of nerds. One of the best things his parents did for him was sign him up for a science club, and he started to thrive, doing what he loved and being around other kids who had similar interests. His parents never made him feel weird for not being eager to sign up for sports or other things that more popular kids liked.
Whoever your kid is, enjoy him. He’ll be marvelous and interesting.
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“others are more cranky and might not usually like it when people stick their faces two inches away from them and make cooing noises.”
Maybe cranky isn’t the best way of putting it – it’s more like some kids have a higher threshold for stimulation and others get overwhelmed more easily by too much noise, light, and intense interactions with others (like the in-your-face cooing that so many people seem to do to babies).
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Oh, and yes: “With a girl, for instance, I know how to teach her to be popular”…I quote David Gendron: WTF?
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Why not ask to wear a mini-skirt to be more populaRRRRR?
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You see? For girls, it’s easy!
What is the boy equivalent of a mini-skirt? Seriously?
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Endless pants…
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Let’s create a “Honey Poo Poo” for a boy. It’ll be so great cuz he’ll be populaRRRRRR.
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Kids want to be popular. That’s reality. Pretending that it’s not true will not benefit them in the least.
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I never said that it’s never true.
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“Just imagine if he grows up and decides to join the army,”
If he “decides” (sic) “voluntarily” (sic) to choicey choose to join the army, let him join the army. Why imaginating the worst? Imagine if he would become a rapist, he could become even more populaRRRRR to women-haters!
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“If he “decides” (sic) “voluntarily” (sic) to choicey choose to join the army, let him join the army. ”
– I know, I know. 🙂 We were kidding.
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My boy, you have to embrace your assigned jendah identity to stay populaRRRRR.
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Or if you don’t like your assigned jendah identity, you must “feel like the other jendah”, not anything else. You have to “act like a man” or “act like a woman”, or else you will become less populaRRRRR.
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We are not discussing men or women just yet. 🙂 We are still on the subject of little kids.
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Men and women are not that different..
A boy who doesn’t care what people think will be popular. Adore your child but don’t smother. A girl who has been too adored and over-protected by her father will be in bad shape. And so the mother’s influence *doesn’t* matter on a girl? hokay
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Men and women aren’t, but mother / son relationship is fundamentally different from mother /daughter. This is the question of roles.
“A girl who has been too adored and over-protected by her father will be in bad shape.”
– I don’t know. I’m such a girl, and I’m in very good shape. 🙂 🙂
“And so the mother’s influence *doesn’t* matter on a girl?”
– It matters a lot but in very different areas. The mother can be super adoring or cold and distant, and that will have zero influence on the girl’s personal life. This will have everything to do with whether she suffers from depression and anxiety, for instance.
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I do think it depends on innate temperament, how you create to various kinds of parental interventions. Not that temperament is the sole determining factor regarding outcome, but there will be some differences.
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Don’t start worrying too soon. Common sense will kick in when needed. After all, the most pertinent information you need to know for the first few months of raising a boy is to not stand downstream.
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“After all, the most pertinent information you need to know for the first few months of raising a boy is to not stand downstream.’
🙂 🙂 🙂 My sister actually knew how to send straight streams of pee upwards when lying on her back. 🙂
Sorry, Sister. Maybe I shouldn’t have shared this. 🙂 🙂
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1) I am so excited it’s a boy!! After all we already have a girl. 😉 Oh the cute preppy outfits I will start lining up now. He’ll look like a mini ivy-leaguer (don’t hate me – it’s a cute look on babies!), and you said I had carte blanche on what I was buying. 😉
2) You were and are very domineering but I am too
3) And yeah, sharing my childhoods peeing habits was unnecessary. 😉
4) Soooo excited!!!!!!
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“Oh the cute preppy outfits I will start lining up now. He’ll look like a mini ivy-leaguer (don’t hate me – it’s a cute look on babies!), and you said I had carte blanche on what I was buying.”
– I can see a lot of argyle awaits us. 🙂
“You were and are very domineering but I am too”
– But at least we are both honest and self-aware. I think these are our best qualities.
“And yeah, sharing my childhoods peeing habits was unnecessary.”
– Sorry, I’m a little loopy after the dental torture.
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Congratualtions!. I am very happy with my 2 girls. Wouldn’t have minded having a boy too.
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Yay! Thank you!
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I knew it! It had to be a boy.
Advice? N has to be involved in everything baby-related the second your child is born, but knowing you that should not be an issue. Also, communication may solve many problems but when a kid bullies you in the courtyard and you have tried to communicate with that kid, it is OK to punch that kid in the face. I know I would have liked to hear this from my parents. That is what I tell my son and his cousins.
If you are concerned about your son’s popularity, I hope he be good at sports. Your son can be the nerdiest kid around, but if he is good at sport he will make his way through k12 smoothly. By sports in the midwest I mean football, obviously. And perhaps baseball and basketball.
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Clarissa, the biggest tip I can give you is congratulate and complement him when he does well on something. Don’t tell him “Good Job” just for trying either, but never compliment a truly good job with “Could have done better!” Give him some self confidence, something that I wish I had as a kid.
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Congratulations! Boys are fab. As you’re asking for advice, I’ll just suggest letting them get on with what they have to do. No mollycoddling, just support if they need it, encouragement, respect, and praise when they deserve it.
And just be prepared for all the energy they have. Best to get them outside running about as much as possible, and if you need new furniture, wait until he’s left home before you buy it. 🙂
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Congratulations !!!
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Yes, sports. He has to be good enough at them and know enough about them to fit in and not be considered a weirdo.
And it is true about the energy. It is important to run around in the woods, build forts.
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We are even ready to buy the subscription to the Cardinals (or what is it called, yearly tickets?) Of course, step 1 will be to figure out which sports the Cardinals actually play.
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Congratulations! I have both a daughter and a son, and have learned from both.
First suggestion – think long term. If he spills something three times in five minutes, you won’t remember it a year from now. Why obsess about it now? Second – let him explore his world. Let it be okay to climb and run and jump and hit things. Third – let him get hurt, bruises and band-aids type of hurt. It will help him develop a realistic sense of what happens when he does (fill in something here). Providing consequences for poor choices will also help. That being said, scars add credibility for boys and always have a story behind them.
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Thank you! The good news is that nobody in this house is that much into cleanliness. 🙂
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Congratulations. I hope the boy turns out to be the same kind of creature as the rest of human beings. I’m sure XY will not pose too many problems.
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Thank you!
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It’s really more the personality than the sex that determines how you raise them (I raised one of each). One of my kids was the type who was all action (this one had to learn to think things through); the other kid was the kind who thought things to their (sometimes scary) conclusions (this kid had to learn how to act on things and not think so much).
The important thing is to be a “good enough” mother because none of us are perfect.
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Hey Clarissa. Congrats! If you’re lucky he may even grow up to be like me… 🙂
In all seriousness tho, here are a few things that you can do which I know I wanted/wished I had, had growing up:
1) Lead by example / philosophical lessons/opinions etc. Treat your son as a curious individual and talk about your logic/philosophy of living like he is at the least a young adult (even when he is 6, 7 10 etc.). The point of this is he will start to view the world in a more complete, intellectually curious way. If you try to “tell him what to do and/or think” he will resent the lack of autonomy and ability to self-determine his future.
2) Don’t lecture or nag… there is nothing more emasculating and it is very counter-productive
3) Give them a lot of responsibility (obviously age appropriate.. but error on the side of more responsibility as long as grave physical danger is not at risk). Let your son experiences his own successes and failures. when he messes up don’t make excuses for him or coddle him.. let him know with freedom and choices come responsibilty and acccountabiliy. Once the message has stuck.. be there THEN with a loving error and hug.
That should be a good start. In regards to sports, yes, it will help if he plays them and can fit in.
Hope this helps a little 🙂
Matt
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I’m presuming the same would work in the case of a female, so long as it was also considered as de-feminizing her to lecture or nag.
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Pretty much. However, it is a little more potent I would argue for a boy to be nagged and constantly controlled.. because right or wrong the power structure (patriarchy I guess) dictates that men being controlled by women is particularly humiliating and difficult to deal with, especially at younger ages.
Ultimately no one deserves to be treated that way… but I think in GENERAL it is more damaging to a male.
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It must be particularly humiliating to be dominated by one’s inferiors.
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It only seems that way because you are a man. 🙂 🙂 Somebody else’s suffering always seems less painful than one’s own.
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Seriously, this way of thinking is so very dated. The rest of the world has moved on. Only those of the extreme right in Australia still think like this, and they are a small minority. There is no essential difference in the way male and female children should be treated. Status is an abstraction. It’s meaningful only so long as one believes in the ultimate Abstraction.
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Once again, this is isn’t about gender. This is about roles. A mother / son relationship is not the same as mother / daughter relationship. Imagine a daughter going for a day out with her mother, visiting a salon, shopping for clothes, having a meal together , going to a museum at the age of 11, 18, 35. Looks very cute, right?
And now imagine a son doing the same with his mother. See a difference?
It’s the same with fathers. A father who says to a teenage daughter, “You’ve started to grow a moustache. Let me show you how to get rid of it” will hurt the incipient womanhood of the girl for good. A cather who says this to a teenage boy, to the contrary, initiates him into the community of adult men and the boy is happy.
Will a 10 yo boy feel the same if his mother takes him outside to teach him how to play ball or ride a bike as when his father does that? Obviously not.
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I thought we were discussing the topic of nagging.
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I hate nagging. Brrr. People who nag are the worst. I have students like that, and they are the kind I dislike the most. Even plagiarists are better.
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I think the stereotype is that if a mother is too dominant she is necessarily “nagging”. In any case, the notion that the male ego has to be treated with greater care than the female ego is highly suspicious. It comes with a lot of metaphysical baggage — obstructive and unnecessary stuff.
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” In any case, the notion that the male ego has to be treated with greater care than the female ego is highly suspicious.”
– This notion was advanced by a male commenter. 🙂
“I think the stereotype is that if a mother is too dominant she is necessarily “nagging”. ”
– Nagging is a tool of the weak. The powerful don’t need it. They can manage people with just a single look.
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I was trying to translate the comment from American. 🙂
I’ve heard a lot said about the male ego, from the Christian right. It’s fragile like and egg, and once broken, it’s gone for good. That is why a Christian wife is needed who will lie down at the entrance to the door, that he might brush her feet on her. If she says anything direct or too critical, it could be construed as “nagging”. That means the male ego cracks and all the gooey stuff spills out. There’s nothing that can be done after that. My Dumpty has fallen off his wall.
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“That is why a Christian wife is needed who will lie down at the entrance to the door, that he might brush her feet on her. If she says anything direct or too critical, it could be construed as “nagging”. That means the male ego cracks and all the gooey stuff spills out. There’s nothing that can be done after that. My Dumpty has fallen off his wall.”
– This is a very different cultural reality for me. I know it exists but it’s very exotic for me. I guess if people play this game, it does something for them.
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It keep the spiritless and soulless involved in life through a strong sado-masochistic dynamic.
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“It keep the spiritless and soulless involved in life through a strong sado-masochistic dynamic.”
– Wow. This makes total sense. Where do you get all these insights?
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observation.
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We all stare. 🙂 But only few of us have any insight into what we are staring at. For most people it’s more like, “Mmmmm, shiny!” 🙂
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Wow.. well.. i guess my ears are burning because musteryou appears to be implying that I am some sort of christian, right-winger who wants women to be in the kitchen all day and make sure “them bitches know their place”… which is complete bullshit. I am not talking about having a strong mom.. i am talking about a mom that constantly asks intrusive questions, that constantly tells you what to do, that doesn’t give you much freedom… all when the young man has the following traits:
valedictorian of his school, multi-sport athlete (not a star.. but one of better players in area.. best at school), NEVER got into trouble, was caring, nice, well respected by fellow-students, teachers, community members… who dealt with the death of his father tragically at 12.. yet never acted out..
so yeah.. I call bull shit when you say that I have very antiquated views.. and if you knew ANYTHING I would never want a woman who lied down and just took it…
and I don’t have an overly fragile ego. i have overcome HUGE bits of tough shit in my life… and overall am very successful and am not unable to recover from this etc.. but that’s all the reason more that you DON”T want a mother who is domineering and nagging and intrusive…
To be clear.. I love my mom.. and she is a great woman. She simply had habits that were very destructive to many teenagers, but particularly a young male who did so many things right such as myself.
So spin that into whatever shit you want. Not overly angry here, just you always seem to have such knowledge of stuff and you COULD NOT be more wrong in this situation.. so now that that is put to bed… good luck on your other proseltyzing (sp? .. i know)
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All I know about US culture comes from American trolls….so you never know, they could be wrong in the data they’re imparting about y’all. I’ve also known some fundamentalists in my time. My point is the discourse in the US is always predictably along the lines that men and women are not the same kind of creatures at all. Men are made of slugs and snails and puppy dogs’ tails and women are made of sugar and spice and all things nice.
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It’s OK, Matt, we all like you. I definitely hear your pain.
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“Will a 10 yo boy feel the same if his mother takes him outside to teach him how to play ball or ride a bike as when his father does that? Obviously not….’
I think your son might surprise you. And I think David kind of hit it on the nose with his first comment: Treat him like a human being, his own unique individual person, and let him learn you as a unique individual person, and take it from there. Once he’s big enough to ride a bike or play ball, you will be able to take a lot of your cues from him. They tend to be smart and expressive little suckers.
And don’t undervalue the currency of being a “Cool Mom.” (The one who shoots hoops and plays video games with her kid.) One of the oddities of “accepted gender roles” seems to be that when a woman breaks out of hers and does Guy Things with her son, she’s cool. Oddly and sadly, when a man does the same things with his daughter, he has the potential to be seen as creepy.
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““Will a 10 yo boy feel the same if his mother takes him outside to teach him how to play ball or ride a bike as when his father does that? Obviously not….’
I think your son might surprise you. ”
– By wanting to be a Momma’s boy? There is a big danger of that because we have this in our family scenario. This is why I’m terrified.
“The one who shoots hoops and plays video games with her kid.”
– Pregnancy did not cure me of autism. 🙂 🙂 I couldn’t shoot a hoop from a bazooka to save my life. 🙂
” One of the oddities of “accepted gender roles” seems to be that when a woman breaks out of hers and does Guy Things with her son, she’s cool.”
– I don’t want to feel cool at the expense of a kid’s socialization. I’m already a very domineering person. My goal now is to dial this down as much as I can, not invade every aspect of the kid’s identity where there is no refuge from me. We have generations of men in the family who grew up with the kind of mothers you describe and the result is nothing short of tragic. For these men, I mean. The mothers had a very good time. I’m not afraid of something vague and undefined here. I simply don’t want to repeat what I have seen over the years. We are a culture of men devoured by their mothers. And it’s not a good thing.
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I also want to explain that the reason I’m so worried is that I have only seen very unhealthy, abusive situations in my life. And what my husband has seen is even worse. Maybe for people who have had the luck to observe happy, healthy child-rearing practices this seems extremely easy. And I’m happy for them. But I literally have no model whatsoever here, and the only responsible thing I can do is be very cautious because the danger of slipping into the only model I know is high.
It’s like with body image issues. For me it is super easy to have a healthy body image and love my body no matter what. So I’m genuinely puzzled by people who worry and struggle and take diet pills and throw up, etc. So telling me to stop worrying about parenting is like me telling an anorexic, “Oh, just stop worrying about it. Just eat whatever you like and be happy.” Yes, wouldn’t it be great if an anorexic could do that? But what is super easy for me might be extremely hard for other people, and vice versa.
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Once again, this is isn’t about gender. This is about roles(Clarissa)
The way you word it sure sounds like “gender roles”
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No, parental roles. Parents are absolutely fundamental to the formation of a human psyche. Any human psyche.
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But, it does sound like parental gender roles. Then again, our boy turned out gay and maybe it is because people of the wrong gender taught him things …
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I didn’t have close parental supervision, gender training, as it happens, so I don’t relate to this idea of trailing along behind mummy or boys goin’ a huntin’ or whatever the gender segregated notions happen to be. I don’t find that training cute or particularly interesting. It’s just American. Also, I find that Americans take gender differences for granted and assume them to be absolute, whereas I’m much more free and easy. I find the idea that men and women are fundamentally different to be an eros killer. After all, if the person you go out with is your polar opposite, your contradiction, in a way, then what’s the point? There are easier ways to commit slow suicide.
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“Then again, our boy turned out gay and maybe it is because people of the wrong gender taught him things …”
If that were true, lesbian parents would consistently turn out gay boys in the children they raise. 😛 I think you’re okay.
In fact, I wonder where same-sex parents fit into Clarissa’s model of parental roles. How could a lesbian couple, for example, successfully raise a girl if she needs to grow up “surrounded by the adoring gaze of her father” in order to have a fantastic personal life?
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“In fact, I wonder where same-sex parents fit into Clarissa’s model of parental roles. ”
– This is not my model. I’m only retelling what over a century of psychological science has uncovered.
” How could a lesbian couple, for example, successfully raise a girl if she needs to grow up “surrounded by the adoring gaze of her father” in order to have a fantastic personal life?”
– A girl raised by a lesbian couple still has a father, right? 🙂 There is no other way to procreate than by joining the genetic material of a man with that of a woman. Irrespective of who is raising a child, the child needs to know his or her biological parents.
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Now let’s see what happens if the father is unavailable for objective reasons, say he died before the kid was born. Then there needs to be a substitute figure: a grandfather, a great-grandfather, an uncle, etc. None of this is in any way specific to gay couples. The pronblems they will face will not be internal to their families but external like dealing with an ignorant homophobic society. Internally, these are completely regular families that in no way differ from hetero families. As every piece of research has demonstrated.
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