A very interesting article on “superfluous people” and why no social unrest is possible:
of drugs and computer games as a solution for most … it’s already happening. Under different titles, different headings, you see more and more people spending more and more time, or solving their inner problems with drugs and computer games
And that’s precisely why mass unemployment will not lead even to a shadow of a protest in post-industrial societies.
Of course, there’s still time to wake up and turn in a different direction. There’s still time.
Clarissa's Blog 
I read the interview and only then noticed its beginning that explains who Harari is:
“YUVAL NOAH HARARI, Lecturer, Department of History, Hebrew University of Jerusalem, is the author of Sapiens: A Brief History of Humankind.”
Now I want to read the book.
Am glad that Israel has people like Harari, and not only the kinds one sees in news: politicians, terrorists, etc. 🙂 That my country isn’t defined only by the Conflict.
Harari says:
“In terms of history, the events in Middle East, of ISIS and all of that, is just a speed bump on history’s highway. The Middle East is not very important. Silicon Valley is much more important. It’s the world of the 21st century … I’m not speaking only about technology.”
He mentions ISIS, but, following his logic, it includes Israel too, though he probably won’t say that.
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I don’t think Jews need to prove anything in the field of intellectual achievement any longer, you know? 🙂 But yes, it’s nice. I’m constantly on the lookout for Israeli scholars who are about something other than the conflict. I’m sure they exist but they are overshadowed.
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He is unfortunately dead now. He died of cancer a couple of years ago. But, Moshe Gammer was an excellent historian of Chechnya and other areas of the North Caucasus. He taught at Tel Aviv University.
http://www.hurstpublishers.com/book/the-lone-wolf-and-the-bear/
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Here is about Hariri’s famous book:
http://www.ynharari.com/sapiens-the-book/read-more/
Unlike “The American Conservative” website (to which you link), “Edge” looks like an interesting site in general, subtitled:
“To arrive at the edge of the world’s knowledge, seek out the most complex and sophisticated minds, put them in a room together, and have them ask each other the questions they are asking themselves.”
Here is a direct link to the interview:
Death Is Optional
A Conversation: Yuval Noah Harari, Daniel Kahneman
http://edge.org/conversation/yuval_noah_harari-daniel_kahneman-death-is-optional
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OK, now I’m disappointed because the book sounds like the rantings of an 60-year-old hippie standing on the corner and scaring people with his yelling. 🙂 🙂
But the point I quoted in my post is still very important.
A simple rule of thumb: whenever anybody starts ranting against the “agricultural revolution”, it’s time to get up and start walking away very slowly because that person is unwell.
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If he gave a brilliant interview, surely his super-popular book has to include some interesting points. I am not sure he is ranting against the “agricultural revolution” and what exactly he means by
“The Agricultural Revolution was history’s biggest fraud – wheat domesticated Sapiens rather than the other way around. ”
Anyway, those are soundbites designed to attract wide audience.
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I heard this all so many times before and it always is the same. But this doesn’t make the interview less valuable.
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Perhaps (this is a wild and largely uneducated guess) it might imply that we have become overly-dependent upon mass production of certain staple crops, as opposed to a broader diet produced somehow in harmony with natural processes. Look up permaculture, say.
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Though in fact it seems to mean the other thing I thought it might mean- that the agricultural way of life is in some ways worse than the hunter-gatherer way of life understood to precede it. (Which is kind of partially the same thing as some of what i was saying, but not permaculture which is in some way engineering the natural environment as opposed to simply taking what you need from it.)
https://www.coursera.org/course/humankind
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See also:
http://www.ynharari.com/happiness/articles/who-domesticated-humans/
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With specific regards to that quote, there is hardly anything new about that. What is here referred to as drugs and computer games is little different to what was called bread and circuses in another. As long as people have food in their bellies and whatever to entertain them, they have your support or at least tolerance. Perhaps here is ignored the food part, though. In previous generations people’s basic material needs were often much more of a struggle to fulfil; at least in rich developed countries that are not warzones, there is almost always an abundance enough to satisfy most people. Some people have suggested that the real reason the “Arab Spring” uprisings happened when they did had to to with the prices of food and other basic necessities becoming unaffordable, and certainly when it comes to survival being threatened, people have less to fear from their leaders.
As I commented in the linked article, I also do not know if the term “superfluous” is remotely fair. This suggests that people have no inherent value apart from that which they are able to provide economically or socially. A person’s sense of self-worth ought to be more than that. Moreover, it seems to pander to some of the nastier forms of capitalist ideology* that suggest that one’s value as a person is tied into how useful you are in helping someone make a profit or “create wealth”. Though I suspect it is true that in an age where the struggle to survive and the need to contribute to the collective survival of one’s broader social group no longer defines a person’s life, one must struggle to find any broader purpose or meaning. Some, as I said, might look to find God and see their purpose in Him**. Some who claim to do so might seek to achieve those ends via violent means, as do the so-called Islamic State/ISIS/ISIL/whatever and terrorist groups of their ilk. (I myself acknowledge this is not the way to go.) Others might choose to retreat into a fantasy world and low-cost hedonism (which I fear I often end up doing, sadly). Others might yet wish to challenge the existing order, engaging in some form of political activity and seeking social justice. That they do not do this last thing in any great numbers might have to do with the fact that they are satiated (and easily distracted) by the modern “bread and circuses”. Perhaps they are simply fed up with a political system that does not benefit them and offers no hope for change, and moreover, recognize that the history of the last two-and-a-half centuries offers little real hope for revolutions effecting change in the long run. What good after all is unrest if the new boss is little better than the old?
It is fair to say that such so-called “superfluous” people ought not to be ignored in this ever-changing world and their needs are still very real; distracting ourselves with cheap hedonism will, of course, do nothing to help this, will it?
*I specify such as I am not entirely opposed in principle for the means of production being in private hands and used to turn a profit. Rather I am concerned that such is increasingly seen as the be-all-and-end-all of society, and that such ideas are for the ultimate benefit of a small and disproportionately wealthy elite often at the expense of others.
**I do not wish to get here into meaningless arguments here about how many gods there are or what gender they should be, if any. I believe (at least I hope I do) in one all-powerful creator God who is commonly referred to using male pronouns. Whilst I hope other people might believe thus, what they ultimately choose to do is their own affair.
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\ This suggests that people have no inherent value apart from that which they are able to provide economically or socially.
The questions are: valuable for whom and why?
Clarissa, the story about the addicted women sounded horrible. I forgot to ask whether they have education and whether you think education is the “pill” against pills / drugs. You said:
“They don’t see a whole lot of meaning in what they are doing and that causes them pain.”
I am not sure I understand why education would make them “see meaning,” unless you think better jobs they would get (?) would make them happier and that’s it. I don’t see how being a programmer or in sales gives meaning to one’s life, except letting one earn more in a more pleasant, easier (in some ways) job.
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I do not deny the importance of having a job. It’s crucial to be able to pay the bills, etc. But there’s got to be more to life than making money to buy crap. With all due respect to the noble pursuit of buying crap that I enjoy as much as the next person.
One needs a narrative of one’s life and of the world that is bigger than any specific job. And if you have that narrative, a job in sales can fill you with a sense of purpose that will make you grow wings and soar. The capacity to develop such a narrative comes from reading, thinking, discussing, debating, arguing, writing, reconsidering – in short, working on your worldview in a life-long journey of development. Formal education gives tools to do that but you’ve got to want to use them and do the work.
Or, alternatively, you could take a happy pill in the form of an actual pill or a Fox News program.
When my students and I stay in class until 8 pm discussing the Spanish 16 century proverbs , this might not have any direct value in terms of placing them into jobs, but in those discussions we do achieve a state of doing something outside of the buy-use-discard-buy some more cycle. We do achieve the joy of the higher purpose of existence. And that is priceless.
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\ One needs a narrative of one’s life and of the world that is bigger than any specific job … We do achieve the joy of the higher purpose of existence. And that is priceless.
If there is no God, no meaning of life except what one decides on, I am unsure what you mean by “a narrative of one’s life.” For instance, if one says “I work at X, have family, and that’s it till I die”, is that a narrative?
\ working on your worldview in a life-long journey of development.
Worldview about what? What one wants to achieve in life?
From your description, “the higher purpose of existence” is attempting to understand the world we live in via literature (your way), art, science, etc. So, it sounds as if there can be only one purpose of existence, even if it may vary in details. Am I wrong somewhere?
If I am right, then I still don’t get this bit:
\ And if you have that narrative, a job in sales can fill you with a sense of purpose that will make you grow wings and soar.
What purpose, except making money?
This subject seems important to me. That’s why I want to understand you better. May be, you could clarify things in another post?
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First of all, who said there is no God? 🙂 We all know I’m religious.
“The narrative of “that’s it till I die” sounds self-pitying and infantile. I’d suggest one keep looking because this is not a narrative that leads to lots of happiness.
As for the purpose of existence, everybody finds their own. I’m just suggesting that one might want to look towards something that lies outside of the realm of purchasing stuff. People who find something outside that realm tend to be happier.
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\ First of all, who said there is no God? 🙂 We all know I’m religious.
Yes, but I was trying to describe reality from atheist pov.
Actually, I asked for examples of narratives and purposes. Except things I already mentioned, nothing comes to mind.
\ “The narrative of “that’s it till I die” sounds self-pitying and infantile. I’d suggest one keep looking because this is not a narrative that leads to lots of happiness.
If one doesn’t keep moving forward, “that’s it” moment will come. It doesn’t have to be self-pitying even, just a description of reality.
Your focus seems to be on “tell yourself this story to be happy,” while I try to find “a real story.”
The question is what “moving forward” may mean, except learning new things about lit / art / science/ etc. As an academic, you have to keep moving forward all the time, in other jobs – not so.
I am tired, but hope you understand what I tried to say. In other news, Happy International Working Women’s Day!
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“If one doesn’t keep moving forward, “that’s it” moment will come. It doesn’t have to be self-pitying even, just a description of reality.”
Narrative 1. I have an amazing opportunity to bring world-class education to students from disadvantaged backgrounds. What I do has the potential to change their lives in a very powerful way because I offer them a window into the world that they would never get otherwise. And when I see their success, that makes me feel like what I’m doing is really meaningful. This is a very powerful and joyful feeling. I’m such a lucky, happy person.
Narrative 2. I don’t have the connections that would get me into an elite university. I’m too honest and respect myself too much to kiss ass and cultivate useful connections. So because of my principles and self-respect I had to end up in this third-rate school, teaching students who don’t have the preparation to even understand what I’m trying to teach them. I feel like my life is a total waste. What am I doing here? Why couldn’t I end up at a place where I would be happier?
Two real people, two identical situations, two completely different narratives.
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A few possible narratives that aren’t “attempting to understand the world”:
wanting to experience as much as possible of life while one has the blessing to be alive
wanting to prevent pointless suffering
wanting to build something good and beautiful, that will last for far longer than one’s life does
wanting to become as good at a certain skill as it is possible for one to be.
And you don’t necessarily have to keep moving forward in your job specifically, but you do have to keep moving forward in your life. Otherwise depression sets in.
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Thanks for the comment, Stille. That was what I asked.
\ And you don’t necessarily have to keep moving forward in your job specifically, but you do have to keep moving forward in your life. Otherwise depression sets in.
That’s what I was thinking about – the ways to define “moving forward,” if not in one’s job or private life.
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Going forward is defined in terms of the meaningful narrative(s) about one’s life, so it might be easier if you first figured out those. How would “the perfect life” look for you, and what would make it perfect?
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And so we appear to be re-evaluating the philosophy of Günther Anders from a different perspective …
http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/G%C3%BCnther_Anders#Technikphilosophie
From the “Promethean gradient” comes the “Promethean shame”, in which the people increasingly seek to find solace in the increase of the machine world despite harbouring the “shame of man” …
http://libcom.org/library/obsolescence-man-volume-i-part-two-%E2%80%9C-world-phantom-matrix-philosophical-considerations-r
http://libcom.org/library/obsolescence-man-volume-2-g%C3%BCnther-anders
I tend to think of this particular writing as a kind of answer to “The Organization Man” by Whyte, at least when it comes to the “mass man” as described by him (as well as by Gasset before him).
Perhaps you’d find “The Obsolescence of Humankind” an interesting side journey — I suspect Anders’ “We, the Sons of Eichmann” might be a somewhat disturbing diversion, however …
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