The feminists explained their support for men’s inalienable right to bully a woman who dares to speak in public as an attempt to create “a safe space.” For male bullies. It worked, and the bullies were allowed to mount a public spectacle of hassling a woman to their heart’s content.
53 responses to “Feminists Support Men’s Right to Bully Women”
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Interesting but not surprising. I intend to finish and post an article this afternoon relevant to the article you link. For now, here’s a video about some very brave women, mostly Muslims and former Muslims, who stand bravely for the rights of women. Why are so few American feminists doing so?
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“Why are so few American feminists doing so?”
American and Western European. And I don’t even have an answer. This absolutely mystifies me.
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Here’s a link to the article I said I would post. It’s titled Islam: Hate, Honor, Women’s Rights and Congress.
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“Muslims are taught about “honor” from infancy. However, Islamic conceptions of “honor” are very different from Judeo-Christian conceptions. In Islam, “honor” consists of honoring one’s family and clan, and thereby Mohamed and Allah. “Adultery” by a woman dishonors her husband, family, her clan, Mohamed and Allah. It does so even if her “adultery” consisted of being raped. It warrants death by stoning. To react “dishonorably” by not imposing such punishments would be a weakness which would dishonor them all.”
- If we remove the words “Mohammad” and “Allah”, this is exactly the idea of honor that existed in the Catholic Spain before the XVIIIth century and, I’m sure, in many other very Christian places. Almost all of Spain’s Golden Age literature is dedicated precisely to this kind of Christian honor killings.
Christianity mostly managed to step away from this barbarity as a result of the European Enlightenment. Historically, that was quite recent.
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At least Christians rejected it, many years ago. Islamic nations continue to reaffirm, strengthening and use such “barbarity.” Yet we continue to be told that theirs is the religion of peace and tolerance, while being reminded of Christianity’s long ago rejected barbarism.
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Christianity mostly managed to step away from this barbarity as a result of the European Enlightenment. Historically, that was quite recent.
Mostly? As a result of the Enlightenment? The very idea that communal and family honor doesn’t reside in a woman’s behavior is so recent it can be contained inside the lifetime of a grandparent.Check out the dates in Franca Viola’s story.
Or check out the dates in this story about when laws allowing a man to murder of your wife or daughter’s lover if he caught them in flagrante delicto
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You’re talking about isolated, rarely enforced laws in backward locations like Sicily and Texas that managed to linger on the books into the 1960s and 1970s. I remember those years very well — do you? — and believe me, forty-five years is ANCIENT HISTORY. Women sometime had a hard time during divorce, but they usually got the kids and alimony automatically, and not a single unfaithful wife or daughter got buried up to her neck in the ground and stoned to death, or was beheaded, or was sold into sex slavery, as is still occurring on a regular basis in 2015 in the Middle East.
To imply that the Christian misogyny in recent decades is in any way comparable to the currently savagery inflicted on women under Muslim rule is risible.
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Sicily, schmicily. I was forced to get married against my will because of (an entirely unproved) assumption that I had lost the family honor by having sex. That was in 1995. Everybody participating in the situation identified as Christian.
As for the savagery inflicted on women in the Christian Latin American countries today, I could go on for hours.
If you don’t see it on TV, it doesn’t mean it isn’t taking place.
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You’re talking about isolated, rarely enforced laws in backward locations like Sicily and Texas that managed to linger on the books into the 1960s and 1970s.
Sicily is part of Italy and Italy is part of Western Europe. Texas is a large state in population and land area that US textbook manufacturers cater to. That second link also mentions New Mexico, Utah and Georgia. Further, the laws mentioned in the second link allow defenses to homicide and would be invoked by defendants, not prosecutors or judges. The same applies to those laws in Italy as a defense to rape and kidnapping. You’re seriously going to tell me that defendants wouldn’t evoke defenses on the books?One of the accomplishments of the Enlightenment is that a person is an individual. This concept that a woman can be an individual and not a repository for communal honor or family honor or some man’s private property lags the Enlightenment by several hundred years. The idea that when a woman got married she still retained the rights to her own body instead of being a human fleshlight did not exist in law until the 1970s.
I only bring up those examples to point out that this mentality is not as far back as we might be comfortable with. These kinds of laws were repealed thanks to the work of radical feminists, not ye olde Enlightenment figures.
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Old enlightenment figures created feminism. It took a while to make these ideas mainstream, to a significant degree because women themselves kept resisting and still do. See the post that started the thread for an example.
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I don’t know about Franca Viola but I grew up in a society where the family honor resided between a woman’s legs. And we were an atheist society.
It is still normal in Russian – speaking countries to blame, vilify and brutalize women for getting raped.
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Sir, great article. I try to keep an open mind, but when I read articles like that or see those videos my blood boils. Those “people” are so ass backwards it’s disgusting, it makes me wonder why our governments want to import these animals. I don’t give a fuck if this makes me racist, they are not compatible with any western society. Sometimes I feel we should just nuke backwards people, what do they contribute?
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Thank you very much.
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“I don’t give a fuck if this makes me racist, they are not compatible with any western society. Sometimes I feel we should just nuke backwards people,”
With thoughts like these, I doubt you’re compatible with western society. Consider living in Saudi Arabia or UAE or Afghanistan to be among people that really think like you.
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“With thoughts like these, I doubt you’re compatible with western society.”
Ah, Stringer Boy, did somebody pull your chain again? You really do need to work on those anger issues. 🙂
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Really, motherfucker? I was born and raised in this country, my parents fled a Communist shithole and now our governments want to import people who will turn our countries into shitholes. We got enough problems, we don’t need to import any more.
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Ok, people, what’s going on? What’s with the massive collapse of reason and civilization in the thread?
Ladyfiaran, I’ve been to Cuba and the men there don’t behave any better than the men in the linked video. Neither do they stand out positively in my country. So if that’s the criterion of who deserves to get imported, neither you nor I would be here, would we?
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I know, our men are useless wankers. And if they fuck up they should be sent back. But Cubans aren’t as backwards as Muslims, and there aren’t as many. That’s why I stay away from most Hispanic stuff, I don’t like many of my own people
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“Really, motherfucker? I was born and raised in this country”
I don’t care where you were born. You’re as backward as the people you wish to nuke.
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“Those “people” are so ass backwards it’s disgusting, it makes me wonder why our governments want to import these animals. I don’t give a fuck if this makes me racist”
This is an important comment. First, a quote from one of my favorite writers: “Annecroft Comprehensive certainly had a religion all right, fashionable and, in a school with twenty different nationalities, expedient. It was anti-racism. You soon learned you could get a way with any amount of insubordination, indolence or stupidity if you were sound on this essential doctrine. It struck her that it was like any other religion: it meant what you wanted it to mean; it was easy to learn, a few platitudes, myths and slogans; it was intolerant, it gave you the excuse for occasional selective aggression, and you could make a moral virtue out of despising the people you disliked. Best of all, it cost nothing… If you had to have a school ethos to give the illusion of togetherness, then for her money anti-racism was as good as any.” (P.D. James, A Taste for Death)
One of the things that’s happening that twin occurences are killing the religion of anti-racism.
One is the collective retreat of the muslim world into dysfunctional traditionalism (most of the worst aspects of which are modern inventions)
The other is the mass exodus of these people (among others) into Europe.
It’s impossible for anyone with any intellectual capabilities to believe that people whose values made their own nation states into catastrophic failures can or want to integrate into functional nation states like Germany or France. The media is doing its best to not cover just how catastrophic middle eastern and sub-saharan African immigration is but people are having to work harder and harder to not notice it.
Reflexive ideas like “tolerance” or “anti-racism” will have to die and be replaced by ideas with a firmer basis in reality. “Anti-racism” as glib lip service has to die so that sounder humanitarian principles can take its place.
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\ One of the things that’s happening that twin occurences are killing the religion of anti-racism.
Yes, when I read “French mob trash Muslim prayer room, burn Koran on Christmas Day” as the result of this:
\ Tensions had mounted in Ajaccio after two firefighters and a police officer were injured overnight in a low-income neighborhood of the city when they were “ambushed” by “several hooded youths,” authorities said.
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4744751,00.htmlMy first thought was “it is a pity they did not trash and burn those “hooded youths”‘ homes / flats instead. Their Muslim parents and relatives do not and will not care whom they attack till chicken come to roost to their flats. Literally. (Now remembered that Israel destroys terrorists’ homes as a deterrence tactic. The situations are different, but I do see some similarity worth thinking about. )
The linked article talks about one specific place, but I read a column about firefighters and police being attacked in place in/near (?) Paris too. Which animal attacks firefighters?
I googled and found “British fire crews face 40 attacks per week”, but article didn’t mention who does the attacking. In the comments somebody linked to this:
http://www.city-journal.org/html/12_4_the_barbarians.htmlQuote:
\ Antagonism toward the police might appear understandable, but the conduct of the young inhabitants of the cités toward the firemen who come to rescue them from the fires that they have themselves started gives a dismaying glimpse into the depth of their hatred for mainstream society. They greet the admirable firemen (whose motto is Sauver ou périr, save or perish) with Molotov cocktails and hails of stones when they arrive on their mission of mercy, so that armored vehicles frequently have to protect the fire engines.
Benevolence inflames the anger of the young men of the cités as much as repression, because their rage is inseparable from their being. Ambulance men who take away a young man injured in an incident routinely find themselves surrounded by the man’s “friends,” and jostled, jeered at, and threatened: behavior that, according to one doctor I met, continues right into the hospital, even as the friends demand that their associate should be treated at once, before others. \LikeLike
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“Why are so few American feminists doing so?”
Two reasons:
1) The majority of American feminists are in lock-step with pro-Palestinian groups who only purpose is to condemn Israel as an evil, oppressive, occupying force. Many academic feminists strongly support the BDS movement.
2) American feminists are afraid to say anything about the oppression of women by Muslims because that would brand the American feminists as “racists” and “white saviors” who are butting into cultures that they “can’t understand and have no right to judge.”
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This could all be done without ever mentioning the words “Muslim” and “Israel.”
I think these feminists are terrified of the angry, bullying, disrespectful men. And they try to imagine them as victimized and pitiful in order to make them less scary.
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“they try to imagine them as victimized and pitiful in order to make them less scary.”
You’re more charitable than I am (bet you don’t hear that often).
My take is that they’re using other women like Namazie as human shields to keep the angry, bullying disrespectful men from lashing out at them.
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This could all be done without ever mentioning the words “Muslim” and “Israel.”
Your linked article reports,
As I mentioned yesterday, ex-Muslim Maryam Namazie spoke at London’s Goldsmiths College on the topic “Apostasy, blasphemy and free expression in the age of ISIS,” and her talk was repeatedly disrupted by Muslim students. You can see the interruptions below, and they’re serious, severe, and extremely rude. [Emphasis added.]
Namazie has worked tirelessly for human rights and against their abrogation by some Muslims, concentrating especially on Islamic oppression of women. It’s thus ironic that her talk at Goldsmith’s was opposed by the college Feminist Society, which aligned itself with ISOC, Goldsmith’s Islamic Society. [Emphasis added]
“Muslim” or “Islam” need to be mentioned because Islam is the main problem.
I posted an Honor Diaries video on this thread yesterday. Here’s another. The women in it, many of them now American Muslims, mention “Muslim” and “Islam” frequently. They also ask for help from American feminists because they need it.
It has been estimated that there are twenty-seven honor killings in America each year. That estimate is probably low, because
<
blockquote>Honor killings and violence, which typically see men victimize wives and daughters because of behavior that has somehow insulted their faith, are among the most secretive crimes in society, say experts. [Emphasis added.]
“Cases of honor killings and/or violence in the U.S. are often unreported because of the shame it can cause to the victim and the victim’s family,” Farhana Qazi, a former U.S. government analyst and senior fellow at the Center for Advanced Studies on Terrorism, told FoxNews.com. “Also, because victims are often young women, they may feel that reporting the crime to authorities will draw too much attention to the family committing the crime.”</blockquote?
Did a desire to be politically correct and multicultural cause the Goldsmith Feminist Society to help the Islamic Society try to make ex-Muslim Maryam Namazie shut up and be properly subservient?
Does fear of being labeled “Islamophobe” or “racist” keep many western “feminists” from condemning Islamic requirements that women submit to men, Islamic “honor” killings and tortures such as genital mutilation? (Genital mutilation is among the topics of the video I posted here yesterday.)
Is it simply too much of a bother to condemn such “trivial” stuff? Are the needs for free birth control, abortions and “safe spaces” so important that such matters can not be permitted to interfere? Or are there reasons I haven’t considered?
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Sorry about the HTML mess in the comment.
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“Islamophobia” provides cover for a lot of misogyny, and a lot of sloppy thinking as well.
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“Ah, Stringer Boy, did somebody pull your chain again? You really do need to work on those anger issues”
Keep fucking that chicken.
A refresher for everyone:
Calling a person from India a monkey-worshipper (to the point that Clarissa had to threaten you with banning if you exploded in racist rage again) is a sign of a well-adjusted human being.
Telling someone to consider moving to another country = ‘anger issues’.
😀
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“Telling someone to consider moving to another country = ‘anger issues’”
Telling someone that she’s not compatible with the society that she were born into, and that she should consider moving to a foreign county (as if a hysterical clown like you were in any position to judge anybody else) definitely = “anger issues.”
Has your psychiatrist considered shock therapy? Your medication obviously isn’t working. 🙂 🙂 🙂
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“Telling someone that she’s not compatible with the society that she were born into,”
OK, this is not a a very good argument but one shouldn’t be surprised, since it’s coming from you. One can be born in any country and still be incompatible with the country’s values.
Would you say your friends at the KKK have values that are compatible with american society?
Idiot.
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“Would you say your friends at the KKK have values that are compatible with american society? Idiot.”
Stringer Boy, you are SO predictable!
🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂
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Predictable? Come on, you can do better. Like this:
“You didn’t hear me the first time? Deaf at your young age from trying to deal with the constant gab of four wives, or has that dot on your forehead melted into makeup running lateral to your nose and blinding your eyes? Okay, here’s my final answer.
If you still don’t get it, ask Clarissa to make a 3-D print of the above image in braille. Langurs and similar dumb animals are sacred to your kind anyway — so just rub its warm tummy, and everything will be all right.”
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Hey, didn’t you just call me a chicken fucker a few comments above because I’m a white man from the South? Sounds pretty racist to me –tsk! tsk! Maybe Clarissa should make a 3-D print of that and send it your way. 🙂
If you still don’t get it, Stringer Boy — the big difference between you and me is that you’re getting all emotionally upset about this, and I’m simply laughing in your face.
BTW, I’m rubbing my cat’s warm tummy now. ‘Bye!
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You’ve completely stopped making sense. Leaving does sound like a good decision before you unravel any further.
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Do we need the US Marine Corps to create a “safe space” for you two? 🙂
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No need, Jones — Stringer Boy is safe.
I’m a retired shrink, and I would never hurt harmless psychotics who call me a “chicken fucker” just before they’re force-fed their medication. 🙂
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Dreidel, enough. Stop this. I’m starting to get very annoyed. This could have been a great thread, and look what you did to it. Now the discussion is dead.
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You’ve giving me all the blame? Read some of Stringer Boy’s hateful comments to other people on this threat! Hey, he killed it, too.
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Mommmmm! I can’t believe you’re punishing me when he started it! That’s sooooo unfair!
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@cliff arroyo
“Mommmmm! I can’t believe you’re punishing me when he started it! That’s sooooo unfair!”
Simply stating facts, masked hard hat! And my mother’s been dead almost fifty years — and nobody on this blog has the authority to replace her inactive corpse.
Why don’t you just stick to analyzing the affairs of Europe — which you actually do pretty well — and stay out of the personal quibbles between Stinger Boy and Me?
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Was anyone in this thread was interested enough in what Namazie had to say to actually watch any portion of the video?
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I watched it. There was nothing scandalous or even that shocking in what she said. I say a lot more provocative things about Christianity to my Bible Belt students and it’s fine. (Except for the student from Mexico who objected to the discussion of the Inquisition.)
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She took pains to distinguish between moderate and liberal Muslims and right wing Islamists. The ISOC guys were an utter embarrassment who just managed to prove her points.
Hilarious moment: “Why are you filming me? You are intimidating me!” says the guy sitting right by the video camera in the front row aggressively checking his smartphone.
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I really admire how she kept her cool even at the most out-of-control moments. I wouldn’t have been able to do that. I’d just get very aggressive. But she was extremely dignified.
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Starting here because the nesting is getting too extreme.
“Yes, when I read “French mob trash Muslim prayer room, burn Koran on Christmas Day” as the result of this:
\ Tensions had mounted in Ajaccio after two firefighters and a police officer were injured overnight in a low-income neighborhood of the city when they were “ambushed” by “several hooded youths,” authorities said.
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4744751,00.htmlMy first thought was “it is a pity they did not trash and burn those “hooded youths”‘ homes / flats instead. ”
I don’t usually look at NYT articles, did they mention that the “several” was a couple dozen and that the violence happened after they began yelling (roughly) “shit Corsicans this isn’t your home!” at those protesting the ambush?
This is a regular occurence in Sweden: muslim youth set fires and then attack the firefighters who respond. The media does its best to obscure the ethno-religious profiles of the perpetrators but it’s common knowledge anymore.
But Corsicans are cut from different cloth than the diffident hyper polite Swedes: They’re Southern Europeans with their own mafia traditions and are not to be trifled with.
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\ This is a regular occurence in Sweden: muslim youth set fires and then attack the firefighters who respond. The media does its best to obscure the ethno-religious profiles of the perpetrators but it’s common knowledge anymore.
Why do that? Muslim youths seem to engage in such in all European countries. The question is why.
Clarissa, that’s partly why I find it hard to believe like you that unemployed masses will sit quietly with their drugs / toys of TV, computer and cell phone . Are those youths hungry or w/o computers and latest cell phones? My guess is they are unemployed (except, may be, as members of criminal gangs) and that’s why have time and energy to entertain themselves by attacking normal citizens, unlike them.
cliff, according to what you know, are they usually employed?
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“cliff, according to what you know, are they usually employed?”
Some problems that stand out
Most European countries (with the exception of the UK and partly Germany, maybe Spain) aren’t very good at creating jobs that immigrants lacking language skills and/or cultural knowledge can do.
Northwestern European countries are very good at trapping families in welfare dependence (multi-generational). Eastern and Southern European countries don’t have the welfare systems in place to do that at least.
No European country AFAICT is very good at educating the children of middle eastern/muslim immigrants and producing people that can fit into the countries’ workplaces. This is partly because the schools cater to the students’ different religious and cultural preferences while employers are not interested in doing so. And mostly European employers like work environments with high levels of social cohesion and similar values – precisly the graduates that the schools don’t produce – so that even educational successes mostly turn into professional failures.
No respectable European politicians want to be the ones to bell the cat and say any of this so that they can be addressed and discussed. This leaves the marginal and possibly dangerous politicians to be the ones to say what everybody is thinking (or doing their best to keep from thinking).
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“Most European countries (with the exception of the UK and partly Germany, maybe Spain) aren’t very good at creating jobs that immigrants lacking language skills and/or cultural knowledge can do.”
- This is only going to get worse. Besides, people from different cultures have different chances of being hired for such jobs. For instance, Hispanic or Filipina nannies are in huge demand. But would anybody hire a nanny in a hijab, let alone in a burqa? Moreover, will she want this kind of a job? Or any job? And what about a cleaning lady or a gardener? These are low-skilled jobs that are still in demand and employ a lot of Hispanics here in the US and Filipinos in Canada. But a Hispanic person adapts so easily and joyfully that people are eager to hire.
“This is partly because the schools cater to the students’ different religious and cultural preferences while employers are not interested in doing so. And mostly European employers like work environments with high levels of social cohesion and similar values.”
- Good point. Everybody prefers to hire a person who’s comfortable to be around. When I used Uber in London this summer, all drivers were polite. But the only one I’d keep hiring was the driver from Spain who was very talkative and exuberant yet completely nonthreatening and not lecherous.
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“Clarissa, that’s partly why I find it hard to believe like you that unemployed masses will sit quietly with their drugs / toys of TV, computer and cell phone . Are those youths hungry or w/o computers and latest cell phones?”
- Young people do act out, that’s true. But youth doesn’t last all that long. 🙂 Besides, in the US the problem of the excesses of energy of the young has been addressed by making them collectively obese so that they don’t have the energy to do anything much but sit on front of the screens.
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Here’s a link to an article published today titled Sweden: Rapes, Acquittals and Severed Heads – One month of Islam and Multiculturalism in Sweden
Does publishing that sort of report constitute “Islamophobia” and/or “hate speech?” Should publishing it be a “hate crime?”
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First of all, I don’t believe that publishing anything should be a crime. Second of all, thank you for doing this work. Especially since nobody else is. I was especially stunned by the rape victim on the train. These are women that are known all over the world to be the most feminist ever. What a disgrace.
The story of the opera singer is also shocking. Gosh, all the stories are horrible.
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cliff, since we are talking, I wanted to ask you 2 things:
Loved the quote from P.D. James’s “A Taste for Death,” but it turned out the book is a detective story and, except Sherlock Holmes, I don’t tend to enjoy them. Do you have some good realistic authors (not sci-fi or crime novels and not “stream of consciousness” / modernist (?) kind of writing) to recommend?
I have been wondering for quite a while: where were you born and in which country are you living now, if it’s not a secret? Born in Poland and lived in America? The opposite? Third? You talked about living different countries and I became confused and curious. 🙂LikeLike
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As flattering as it is to be asked for reading selections I’m kind of a bad person to ask, I read genre fiction almost exclusively (and am firmly convinced that it’s generally more valuable than literature that’s trying to be “art”)
At least try a P.D. James, maybe one of the shorter earlier ones “An unsuitable job” or “Cover her face” to begin with (or maybe “Innocent Blood” a kind of reverse murder mystery).
She has a very pessimistic view of human nature and can describe even mundane things in a kind of depressing way but she’s my go to example for how the restrictions of genre can liberate a good storyteller. I think of her as literature first and genre second (as opposed to Jonathan Kellerman who writes very enjoyable but not very deep murder mysteries set in California and starring a child psychologist).
For science fiction try Octavia Butler. She was fascinated by the functioning of the body and in pursuit of that went places that no other author even approaches. I’d start with Dawn (first part of a trilogy that also echos with themes of colonialism and offers a simple reason for the problems of the human condition). Her stuff is traumatic and revelatory and amazing if you can get past the sci fi aspect. You might try Bloodchild (easily findable online) to see if you like her.
I also liked Dark Water’s Embrace by Stephen Leigh and Alien Influences by Kristine Kathryn Rusch (which deals with themes of immigration and child abuse).
For capital L Literature, I like Flannery O’Connor, an uneasy mix of uber-catholicism and Southern Gothic grotesque .
Eudora Welty is also pretty great, maybe better at short stories than novels.
My origins are no secret. I was born in the US (in Florida in an area with lots of Southern influence) but now live in Poland.
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A conservative literary critic and college professor
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