Here’s a test. Imagine Warren delivering a speech in favor of market deregulation and in favor of a complete ban on abortion and contraception. Would you still find her charismatic? Or are you confusing charisma and ideological affinity?
Charisma is what Fidel Castro used to have 20 years ago. I’d know that everything he was saying was a lie but when he spoke, I really really wanted to believe him. That’s charisma. And it’s dangerous precisely because it switches off reason and logic.
“Imagine Warren delivering a speech in favor of market deregulation and in favor of a complete ban on abortion and contraception. Would you still find her charismatic? ”
I’m not sure there are many people on the planet who would pass this test for me.
Is there an american politician who would pass this test for you?
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Bernie Sanders. 🙂 I have a soft spot for Jewish grandpas.
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Is there an american politician who would pass this test for you?
I’m curious about that as well. By this test, Donald Trump is not charismatic since the minute he expressed political opinions I loathed him. His mannerisms are that of a dishonest salesperson. But I could see people who aren’t being threatened wanting to excuse what he’s saying because of his persona.
On the other hand, there are people who I should like because I agree with much of what they say ideologically but when I see them on tv, I dislike them intensely on sight and I want them to shut up and go away.
I cannot STAND Bill Maher or Keith Olbermann.
Ted Cruz for me would fall in the “dislike him ideologically” and “dislike him at a charismatic level” because I can’t imagine voting for him even if he had a come to Jesus moment and turned himself into a Bernie clone.
I just don’t think American politicians are charismatic on that level. You see this more with Hollywood stars and music artists people will bend over backwards to excuse even if the person holds views or has done things repugnant to them.
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“I just don’t think American politicians are charismatic on that level. ”
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Bill Clinton. He is amazingly charismatic, and he knows exactly how to emotionally connect with an audience. He will totally pass this test for me!
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Pre-2012 clinton for me. These days he’s a major liability on the campaign trail.
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I agree. I keep wishing Bill would just go away already. Even 10 years ago he was still great but these days, oy.
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Bill can’t stand that the media has someone they like more (obama). He fell apart when obama beat hillary in 2008 and bill started with the racial dog whistles.
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lol no. Wrong again, matt (but it’s OK, you’re probably used to people saying this to you all the time).
Dude, do you remember his speech at the 2012 convention? He actually got into the policy weeds in his super long speech and still managed to wow the audience. He made an extremely boring topic interesting. No, he didn’t ‘fall apart’ then.
I don’t think he can do that now. He’s too old. He looks ghastly and seems out of touch. He picks random fights with protesters, and in general doesn’t know what he’s doing. He’s a burden on Hillary. Now.
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I think Bill is ailing. He’s been looking very frail and not altogether there recently.
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In person he has always been pretty disgusting, though, fat and greasy. I first saw him in 1992, running on my campus.
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Someone who is charismatic and does not agree with me on important issues I would class as dangerous. Donald Trump is an excellent example of this. President Obama is also charismatic; I sometimes agree with him and sometimes do not. Elizabeth Warren is extraordinarily charismatic, in my opinion.
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“Elizabeth Warren is extraordinarily charismatic, in my opinion.”
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Obama, yes, there is one. I disagree with him on a great deal and would be far more irritated than I am were it not for the charisma.
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Obama is definitely charming in a slightly goofy sort of way. And he is an outstanding public speaker.
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“Or are you confusing charisma and ideological affinity?”
Not confused at all — charisma is based on personality and presentation, not ideology.
Hitler was very charismatic. So was Castro in his younger days. So were Reagan and the Kennedy brothers. Nixon, Ford, Carter, and Churchill had no charisma at all. The ideology is irrelevant.
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“Hitler was very charismatic.”
I don’t know the language so I’ll defer to you. From my perspective, he looked like an angry little mouse. He really must have been a great orator, to make up for his physical deficiencies.
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Reagan and Bill Clinton were the last classicaly charismatic presidents (in that even people who disagreed wtih them politically found them likeable and/or compelling to listen to).
Barbara Jordan in her short prime was incredibly charismatic. The youtube clips I’ve been able to find either don’t convey this well or she’s simply less charismatic after the fact due to changing tastes, her stentorian cadence and archaic pronunciations “inquisitores” often sound a little weird – but at the time she was amazing).
I find Nigel Farage to be oddly charismatic. Until sometime last year I was against his UK-out-of-the-EU rhetoric while finding his EU parliament speeches wildly entertaining and addictive.
Hillary is a little like Nixon, she’s at her most….. charming (for lack of a better word) when she’s trying for the common touch and falling short.
Obama is charismatic the way the Celestine Prophecy is a great book. He’s clearly mimicking the black preacher sermon style (earlier on more than now) but he’s only kind of okay at it. In high school I used to listen to black preachers every night falling asleep* so I have higher standards in that area.
*due to the mysteries of AM radio, WLAC in Nashville Tennessee came in very clear at night in my south florida home and I tuned the radio into its post midnight gospel show before going to bed and every night they’d play a different sermon recorded live in some black church or other.
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John Edwards was VERY charismatic — looked and sounded exactly like a hillbilly televangelist preacher in his stump speeches. In the early 2008 Democratic primaries, I figured that he’d be the serious challenger to Hillary rather than the newcomer Obama.
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Is it the one who whored around and whose wife got cancer as a result?
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The one and only! The guy who was also John Kerry’s choice for VP running mate in 2004.
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Elizabeth Edwards died of breast cancer, which is not contagious.
I think you could make an argument that the stress of the humiliations her cad of a husband visited upon her didn’t help the quality of the last part of her life any.
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In psychoanalysis, breast cancer follows from a deep psychic wound, a profound hurt in the sphere of one’s fulfillment as a woman.
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Um, how do you account for the men who have breast cancer?
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This has nothing whatsoever to do with how I account for anything. I’m not one of the founders of psychoanalysis. Jung defined the presence of the male and the female sides in all individuals. This is why gay people, for instance, benefit greatly from Jungian analysis.
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Every single person on this earth could undergo analysis successfully (and wouldn’t that be a wonderful world to live in?) and there would still be cancer patients.
The same forces that make evolution possible make cancer inevitable — cancers arise from genetic mutations, some of which may be randomly spontaneous, and others which are inherited.
Some are triggered by environmental factors, such as hazardous chemicals. For example, there is a very high rate of breast cancers among the Marines stationed at Camp Lejeune during the time the drinking water there was full of benzene.
Psychic wounds are real things but so are the biology and genetics of cancer.
Have you read Sontag on Illness as a Metaphor?
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Reagan I found anticharismatic — his looks and voice made me nauseous, and I would have to turn him off.
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I have the same reaction to Reagan. He always reminded me of those unctuous viejitos verdes who persecuted me and my girlfriends in our teenage years.
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Yes, what a great actor! Dearly beloved even in the USSR.
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This thread may have run it’s course but I’ll answer anyway. I am actually surprised by the recent media declarations proclaiming Warren’s charisma. I personally think she’s reasonably charismatic but nothing extraordinary. I like her and think she’s smart and appreciate that she’s an academic. But I think she has a similar affect to Clinton. I actually think she’s less charming than Clinton. But then again I am probably the only person on Earth who finds Clinton charming. (I think Clinton would be fun to hang out with. She seems like someone who would be funny and enjoy a cocktail)
I actually don’t know of anyone that I can point to as charismatic by your definition: there is nobody who can make market deregulation or a contraception ban sound appealing to me. That being said, there are definitely people I find to be _uncharismatic. Ed Schultz and Melissa Harris Perry (both former MSNBC commentators) are so annoying that they make me rethink being a liberal. MSP is particularly painful for me to watch. It’s terrible but she has this persistent lisp, which she probably can’t help, but it drove me bonkers that she was on national television. I wasn’t surprised at all when MSNBC pushed her out of prime time.
Overall, I think the most charismatic American politician in my lifetime has been Obama. I don’t think he’s “mimicking the black preacher sermon style” as Cliff said. I think he’s influenced by that style but he’s done his own thing. I will miss his beautiful speeches when he’s out of office.
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I think that Hillary is incredibly hard-working and she improved her appeal as a public persona dramatically in a matter of a few months. Last summer’s Hillary is very different from Hillary today. I admire this capacity to grow enormously.
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A conservative literary critic and college professor
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