Civilization and Barbarity

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Clarissa

September 25, 2016

I just read a story of a guerrilla fighter who lost both arms and his eyesight fighting against Russians in the same places in Ukraine where I spent much of my childhood.

If somebody told me, even two weeks or two days before it happened, that Russia would invade Ukraine and there’d be guerrilla fighters getting killed or wounded, I would have never believed it.

We keep thinking, ha ha, this will never happen, we are way too evolved, things like that don’t happen any more. And then they happen.

Nobody has truly evolved past anything. Barbarity needs to be kept at bay constantly. Because the moment you snooze, it comes out and obliterates all gains of civilization.

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23 responses to “Civilization and Barbarity ”

cliff arroyo

September 25, 2016

“Barbarity needs to be kept at bay constantly. Because the moment you snooze, it comes out and obliterates all gains of civilization”

There are two sides to that, that might be called vigilance and prudence. We hear a lot about vigilance but not much about prudence which comes from recognizing the boundaries of human nature and not taking unnecessary chances or indulging in wishful thinking when setting policy.

In terms of the current election.

Trump is, in often horribly misguided ways, more prudent than vigilant. You may hate his “no muslim immigration” idea but at its base it is about prudence.
If immigrants from a particular national or relgious group are overrepresented in welfare /crime/terrorism then it’s prudent to limit (maybe very sharply) immigration from that group. Of course he speaks in stupid absolute terms that a third grader could defeat in a debate but the basic idea is not terrible.

Clinton is very vigilant, but I don’t think she is prudent. She has been on record as supporting too many projects and policies that have no slightest hope of success. She was suckered onto the neocon train of unending foreign disasters and named Merkel as a role model just as it was becoming clear what an unmitigated disaster her migration policy was becoming.

Human nature is what it is, and the danger from prodding people into unnatural policies is just as liable to stoke the barbarians within as is firebrand rhetoric.

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1. Clarissa
  
  September 25, 2016
  
  I agree that Clinton is making way too many promises to appease the left wing. This does not bode well because they will start throwing tantrums when it becomes clear that many of these things are not achievable. This is a trap every politician these days falls into: voters are consumers and you can’t ask a consumer for patience or forbearance. You have to promise the shiniest new toy that will cure all ills. Unless you offer up this lie, you stand no chance of being elected. But this sets you up to disappoint the voters no matter what you do.
  
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cliff arroyo

September 25, 2016

And in breaking news: The Washington state shooter who killed five people and originally reported as being “hispanic” …….. is Turkish.

This could be an honest mistake (there’s some overlap in the way that some Hispanics look and how many people look from a huge swath of the Earth from Morrocco to India). Or, it could be media obfustication of the kind now common in Western Europe where similar attacks are dismissed as “mental health” issues unrelated to terrorism….

Oh, and there was an explosion in Budapest, the official line is “gas explosion” but I’ve already read accounts that dispute that with reports of a suspicious package that police were about to examine.

The sum total of media distortions in the name of vigilance is an astonishing lack of prudence that will only make things far, far worse.

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1. Clarissa
  
  September 25, 2016
  
  I wondered from the start about the story of a Hispanic shooter. It made zero sense.
  
  This is a dangerous game because remember how the Spanish government tried to claim the Atocha bombings were ETA, but the people got incensed by the lie and the government fell?
  
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Omega Man

September 25, 2016

A point often missed by the so-called elite is that their policies of “compassion” have very different effects at the ground level. As Mr. Arroyo above alluded to, Muslim migrants are over-represented in crimes such as rape, sexual assaults, muggings, drug dealing and other various crimes. Any attempt to state the truth with respect to what the man or woman on the ground is suffering is met with cries of Racism, Islamophobia, or whatever slander du jour seems to be appropriate at the time. As an example, life in Germany where I live has become a nightmare and I suspect the same is beginning to happen in the U.S.

For all of his faults, Trump has listened to the suffering of the people and spoken to it. It is a lesson for the elites, that is if they can get over their arrogance and conceit, is that a failure to listen to the people will be the prime cause of their downfall. Good candidates on the Republican side were turfed because they mouthed the politically correct drivel that voters are so tired of hearing. On the Democrat side, Hillary came very close to losing the nomination for the very same reason.

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1. Clarissa
  
  September 25, 2016
  
  I have no idea what you are trying to say. Who is suffering? How can you “listen to suffering”? To whose suffering Trump has listened? Has he met with “men or women on the ground” and they talked while he listened? When did that take place?
  
  I’m very bothered by this kind of vagueness. Who listened to whom and about what?
  
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  1. Omega Man
    
    September 25, 2016
    
    For one, Trump listened to mothers whose children were murdered by illegal aliens. When I saw that, I knew Trump had the presidency in the bag. There are more examples of course, but this was the most telling.
    
    My point here is that the elite who proclaim to be so much wiser than the common man, really have no idea of what is happening on the ground. Their solutions to societies ills in reality cause much more harm. Look at race relations under Obama.
    
    There is a reason why Trump is gaining ground and it is also for this reason that the establishment parties, whether they be Republican or Democrat are losing ground.
    
    My main point is that you really need to hear the concerns of the people and not brush them off as Racist, Islamiphobic or whatever.
    
    I agree that there were people in both parties who are better qualified and who would make better presidents, but because they did not listen to the people or even understand their concerns, they lost out on the opportunity of a lifetime.
    
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    1. Stringer Bell
      
      September 25, 2016
      
      “You said mean things to me, which is only going to drive me further into the welcoming arms of a racist demagogue who aligns himself with actual neo-nazis. It’s all you fault, libruls! If only I was allowed to make jew/black/women jokes in the office, this would never have happened.”
      
      You’re fooling nobody, dude.
      
      “Race relations under Obama” haha.
      
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      1. Stringer Bell
        
        September 25, 2016
        
        Also noteworthy, this dude things politicians should get over their arrogance and conceit, so he chose as his messiah Donald fucking Trump, the least arrogant and conceited man who ever lived.
        
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        Clarissa
        
        September 25, 2016
        
        It’s sad and strange that there are folks who honestly think that a billionaire cares about the concerns of “the common man.”
        
        Back in the times of serfdom, serfs often believed that their owner, who resided far away and almost never saw them, was kind and magnanimous. Their greatest dream was that he’d come and punish the overseers who beat, tortured and raped them. These poor folks didn’t want to believe that the overseers tortured them because that’s what the master wanted them to do.
        
        Trump’s supporters are like those serfs. They want to believe in a good, benevolent master.
        
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    2. Clarissa
      
      September 25, 2016
      
      And Hillary talked to mothers whose children were murdered by police and vigilantes. So what? Who has brushed anybody off?
      
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Stringer Bell

September 25, 2016

“I agree that Clinton is making way too many promises to appease the left wing.”

Disagree. If anything, she hasn’t done enough to shore up her base. She spent all of August and September reaching out to conservative voters, securing endorsements from Bush era operators. I’m shocked that this has failed to bolster her polling numbers. Shocked! I mean, John Negroponte???

“I helped organize rebel militias in Latin America and oversaw the rapes and murders of nuns, and #ImWithHer!”

“I rectally fed hummus to guantanamo prisoners and now #ImWithHer!”

Winning message!

The funny thing is the hate for her among conservatives is so strong that no matter what she says or does, they’ll never vote for her. Like, do you see Dreidel voting for Clinton? In an election scenario that is so polarized, you just want to excite your base so they show up to vote. Fuck the other side. They’ll never cross over for you anyway.

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1. Clarissa
  
  September 25, 2016
  
  Of course, she could make even more unrealistic promises to “shore up the base.” But that will only mean a greater disappointment when none of these miracles actually occur.
  
  Any change that happens will be maddeningly slow, halting and painful. Problem is, no politician can afford to say this. The result is that all these huge promises never come to anything. Voters decide that all politicians are liars and turn to “honest, plain-speaking outsiders.” Who also make outlandish promises and so on.
  
  Voters don’t leave politicians a choice but to promise the world. And the results are bad.
  
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  1. Stringer Bell
    
    September 25, 2016
    
    “Any change that happens will be maddeningly slow, halting and painful. ”
    
    I think most people are jaded enough from the political process and realize this. They also know that change will be tough, given the hostile congress that any Democratic president will face. But, at least signal your support for the things your base would like, and work hard towards achieving those legislative goals if you get elected. Isn’t that governance 101?
    
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    1. Stringer Bell
      
      September 25, 2016
      
      You know, I’ll take that back. Jaded voters are also voting for a guy who claims he alone will bring american industry back to america, and finish off ISIS in 30 days.
      
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      1. Clarissa
        
        September 25, 2016
        
        Exactly. She keeps ramping up the promises because the opponent very blatantly announces things he’ll never deliver. The wall! Mexicans are paying for it! It’s all bull but people seem to believe it.
        
        A billionaire who listens and cares about regular people! Are people really that naive or is it simply an excuse to support a fascistic candidate?
        
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Stringer Bell

September 25, 2016

By the way, one of the best ads her campaign has produced so far.

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1. paranoid
  
  September 25, 2016
  
  Nothing protects the children from hearing repugnant messages like repeating them on commercials 24/7 on every TV show you can find.
  
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  1. Clarissa
    
    September 25, 2016
    
    I think even a 3-year-old is capable of understanding context and seeing that the ads present Trump’s statements as something negative.
    
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2. Shakti
  
  September 25, 2016
  
  Hillary Clinton 2016: #whataboutthechildren?
  
  The idea is that even those who might brush off sexism towards themselves or adult women might feel badly about it being directed at children. Judging by the number of people who still bear grudges against people for things that happened when they were children, it might be an effective tactic.
  
  Who is actually going to watch this farce of a debate?
  
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  1. Stringer Bell
    
    September 25, 2016
    
    “Who is actually going to watch this farce of a debate?”
    
    I’m guessing it’ll be the most watched presidential debate in history.
    
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    1. Clarissa
      
      September 25, 2016
      
      We even have a debate watching party organized by my university.
      
      Everybody will watch but not for a good reason, I’m afraid.
      
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  2. Clarissa
    
    September 25, 2016
    
    Hey, Shakti, don’t say you won’t be here for the live blogging. We need you! 😉
    
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