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Are You an Anti-vaxxer?

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Clarissa

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Have you been vaccinated for yellow fever?

No?

Anti-vaxxer!!!

That’s the tenor of the discussions I invariably have with the defenders of the obligatory “COVID vaccine.”

Even though they have not been vaccinated against every disease on the planet because they don’t evaluate their risk as high, they triumphantly label the people who follow an identical strategy for COVID “anti-vaxxers.”

Is it possible to be completely pro-vaccine yet not to get vaccinated for yellow fever? Of course, it is. Most people are in that camp. They believe in vaccines yet don’t think they need the yellow fever vaccine. To be an anti-vaxxer, you need to oppose the idea of vaccination.

45 responses to “Are You an Anti-vaxxer?”

  1. Just George Avatar
    Just George

    “To be an anti-vaxxer, you need to oppose the idea of vaccination.”

    I see you’re new to the vaccine debate 🙂

    Like

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    1. Clarissa Avatar
      Clarissa

      I’m definitely not new to being assigned ridiculous labels and then condemned on that basis, you know?

      Like

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      1. Just George Avatar
        Just George

        Yes but you still have the energy to have discussions, when it is the vaccine debate.

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  2. Dreidel Avatar
    Dreidel

    “Have you been vaccinated for yellow fever?”

    Yes — and just about every other contagious disease known to man!

    When I was stationed overseas in multiple countries with the Air Force, AND was on both flying and deployment status, AND was travelling constantly to strange locations, the U.S. government made sure that all of my mandatory vaccinations were kept up to date.

    I never had a side effect from a single vaccine, and never caught yellow fever or any other exotic disease, so things turned out all right.

    Liked by 1 person

    Reply
    1. Clarissa Avatar
      Clarissa

      I didn’t anticipate people interpreting my post as a request for a full update on their vaccination history but that’s one of joys of blogging. The reaction is never what you think it will be.

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  3. PaulS Avatar
    PaulS

    I’ve had the yellow fever vaccine. It’s actually a requirement for travel to many African countries.

    I also support the right of countries to require covid vaccines before granting people entry.

    Liked by 1 person

    Reply
    1. Clarissa Avatar
      Clarissa

      I’m speechless. This means I would never see my family again to appease a bunch of hysterics.

      Liked by 1 person

      Reply
      1. GSW Avatar
        GSW

        “This means I would never see my family again to appease a bunch of hysterics.”

        Your choice.

        There’s nothing unusual about being required to show proof of vaccination for international travel. There’s conclusive evidence over many, many decades that the benefits of compulsory vaccination for society greatly outweigh the risks of compulsory vaccine administration to individuals.

        Yellow fever is a particularly nasty shot as it is an attenuated live virus and it does have very serious side effects for a tiny minority of people. Fully understanding the risks, I never thought twice about getting it as I needed it for a job I wanted. I also had a BCG for tuberculosis in spite of knowing at the time that the chances of catching tuberculosis in North America were greater from getting the shot than from not having it administered. Other shots have given me short term chills, fevers and muscle pain but, thank God, nothing serious. Polio vaccine saved my childhood from fear and social isolation. And so on…

        Such is life. Vaccine resistance is futile and most often anti-social. For me, on a scale of 1-10, vaccine anxiety is -5.

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        1. Pen Avatar
          Pen

          Your choice my foot. I can’t get the vaccine because of an autoimmune condition caused by covid. Do I not deserve to travel to my family’s property in Canada if they decide to require vaccination? Nobody has said anything about things like this, and it is concerning because exceptions need to be made for medical limitations at least.

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          1. Clarissa Avatar
            Clarissa

            How about people with small children? Not allowed to travel en masse?

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          2. PaulS Avatar
            PaulS

            The local vaccination center lists the following exemptions from yellow fever vaccine requirements:

            your children are younger than 9 months,
            you’re older than 60 years of age (especially if they’ve never had the vaccine before),
            you’re pregnant or breastfeeding,
            you have a weakened immune system, or if
            you’re allergic to eggs.

            I assume similar exemptions would exist for a covid vaccine.

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            1. Pen Avatar
              Pen

              And right now absolutely everyone is denying that exceptions outside of allergic reactions exist.

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            2. GSW Avatar
              GSW

              “exemptions would exist for a covid vaccine…”

              You’re being way too reasonable for folks who have convinced each other that we’re not being offered a vaccine but “experimental gene therapy.”

              Maybe they’re right in some technical sense, I don’t know or much care since it is now more than evident that people aren’t dropping like flies from side-effects after getting jabbed. “A bunch of hysterics” has had power over my life for the last year and I’ll be damned if I allow this self-same “bunch of hysterics” any more power over resuming my normal life, including the pleasure of international travel, by not getting a COVID shot.

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        2. Clarissa Avatar
          Clarissa

          Now substitute “vaccination” with “experimental gene therapy with unknown long-term effects.”

          Like

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      2. PaulS Avatar
        PaulS

        I thought you supported country’s rights to defend their borders. What’s the point of a border if you don’t get to decide who you let in?

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        1. Clarissa Avatar
          Clarissa

          This is all in the past. It’s all gone now. Time to move on and not to get bogged down in fantasies about times past. There are no “countries.” There are no “borders.” There’s a supranational hyper mobile oligarchy that uses weak and powerless local authorities to extort me and you. The sooner we let go of the outdated concepts of the past, the faster we will become ready to defend ourselves.

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    2. random reader Avatar
      random reader

      I could see your point IF the vaccines were properly tested and fully authorized (not under the emergency use authorization). Also, to limit the freedom of movement over something that is bound to become endemic worldwide (like the flu), requiring vaccines that are leaky (i.e., by far not fully sterilizing) is somewhat irrational and overly controlling. It is not like there is enough evidence at this point that vaccinated people do not spread the virus or cannot contract the disease. Of course, the worldwide response to this pandemic has been somewhat irrational and overly controlling, so the fact that it will continue should not surprise anyone.

      Liked by 2 people

      Reply
  4. Alex the Physicist Avatar
    Alex the Physicist

    The worst anti-vaxxers are the ostensibly pro-vaxxers who insist that after being vaccinated we are still in great peril and must not relax any of our safeguards. They are working feverishly to persuade people not to get vaccinated.

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    1. Clarissa Avatar
      Clarissa

      I know such people and they mystify me. What do they want? What’s their end game? They are destroying the goal they declare to support.

      Like

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      1. random reader Avatar
        random reader

        “What do they want?”
        Permanent lockdown and control of every aspect of our lives.

        Like

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      2. Alex the Physicist Avatar
        Alex the Physicist

        They want to show that they take COVID-19 more seriously than anyone else does. Because they are more virtuous.

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      3. Just George Avatar
        Just George

        “I know such people and they mystify me. What do they want? What’s their end game? ”

        Listen. It makes no sense to ask any logical questions in the vaccine debate, because it is the vaccine debate. You’re talking about more than 2 decades of the pharmaceutical industry and political groups dropping weapons grade misinformation on some of the most emotionally vulnerable people on the planet – first time parents – with the energy that only a billion dollar per week industry can provide, which means that a lot of the people you’re talking about are either unspeakably evil, or transformed into professional zealots, or have PTSD.

        So like I said earlier – it’s the vaccine debate.

        Liked by 1 person

        Reply
        1. Clarissa Avatar
          Clarissa

          I’m definitely new to this side of the debate but you are definitely right. I’m seeing incredible dysfunction and craziness on the subject. How people can uncritically accept what the pharmaceutical industry tells them is beyond my comprehension.

          Like

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          1. Just George Avatar
            Just George

            “I’m seeing incredible dysfunction and craziness on the subject. How people can uncritically accept what the pharmaceutical industry tells them is beyond my comprehension.”

            Sure, but you’re a person who thinks and is capable of doing her own research about the issue. Many others, though, aren’t exactly very smart and so look to authority for answers. Many of them, when confronted with the idea of their baby possibly getting sick if not for a vaccine look towards authority figures like doctors, have the vaccine administered to their child, and then immediately take upon themselves the position that since they took on the risk of vaccination, that others should do the same/pay the same price.

            So right away, you have a situation where 3 things happen all at once – 1) a person is filled with fear, 2) a person takes a risk/goes through suffering almost like a gang induction/initiation, and 3) the person finds themselves in one group (vaccinated) that is different to another group (unvaccinated) which poses a threat to it.

            The above 3 things are basically all you need for tribal warfare to happen, where in the case of pro vaccine people, the tribal leader is the drug company. When the tribal leader speaks, tribe members accept & follow, and that is the end of it.

            Anyway what happens after that is that someone like you comes along to ask a logical question that in essence challenges the tribal leader, which then instantly creates backlash from the pro vaccine tribe – many of whom aren’t very smart to begin with while also mostly being completely uneducated about medical matters – and before you know it you find yourself arguing with a whole horde of unthinking, cultish maniacs who are so invested in vaccines being perfect that anything you say to them creates intense cognitive dissonance which reinvigorates them to argue with you even more shrilly.

            In other words, many of them are victims, one way or the other.

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  5. AcademicLurker Avatar
    AcademicLurker

    I also have been vaccinated against yellow fever (decades ago, so I suspect it’s worn off). Apparently it’s more common than you thought!

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    1. Clarissa Avatar
      Clarissa

      I should have looked for a rarer disease for sure but I was too lazy. 🙂

      Like

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      1. PaulS Avatar
        PaulS

        The yellow fever vaccine is actually the most commonly required vaccine for travel purposes.

        This may not have made it the best example for the point you were trying to make.

        Like

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  6. lb Avatar
    lb

    My yellow fever vaccine is current because of visa requirements to various South American countries. I’m vaccinated for all kinds of stuff. I haven’t done the hepatitis one, although technically I should, and I tend not to take the anti-malaria pills, although technically I should. I don’t normally do the flu one, out of laziness, although it’s meant getting a pretty bad case or two of flu. I’ll get the pneumonia one when I’m 65, yes.

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    1. Shakti Avatar
      Shakti

      If you enjoy booze, get the hepatitis vaccine. Just…saying.

      Like

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      1. lb Avatar
        lb

        I don’t think you can vaccinate for hepatitis caused by drinking. It’s hepatitis A I’m supposed to be risking, going to world 3. I tend to just do what is required for a visa, not what’s recommended by over-careful doctors …

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        1. Shakti Avatar
          Shakti

          I can understand not bothering with the anti-malarial pills. However: All the hepatitis types tax your liver, including hepatitis A. You don’t want hep A.

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          1. lb Avatar
            lb

            … do the current vaccines work any better, do you know? The reason I have always avoided was that the vaccine itself was a pain to get, didn’t last long and didn’t protect well, and if you’re being careful about food the way middle class people and even others are, you can do pretty well. I’m somewhat more afraid of catching cholera, that is, think it’s more likely somehow, I don’t know if I’m right. Haven’t been vaccinated for that either (that I remember, I’ve done typhoid) but would seek it out if I were going to jungle and even Andes, maybe I should the current hepatitis too?

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            1. Shakti Avatar
              Shakti

              The hep A one I got was one of the earlier ones and it protected me. I have no idea if I still have the antibodies from that one.
              I’ve never done the flu or the pneumovax and if I did, it would be more for the sake of my cousin’s kids or my uncle.

              There are no vaccines for chikungunya or dengue fever.

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              1. lb Avatar
                lb

                I have not figured out what the deal was with the hepatitis prevention recommended when I considered it. I seem to remember it involved getting complicated shots of hemoglobin, regularly, as a prophylactic measure, and it seemed like overkill if one was going to be careful about food. A plain-old vaccine, I’d do.

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              2. lb Avatar
                lb

                … and yes, I know lots of people who have gotten dengue. There are so many disadvantages to the tropics, I am not entirely sure why they are so popular 😉

                Like

  7. Lucy Avatar
    Lucy

    Not only is vaccination required for travel. In the US it is required to obtain permanent residency. I remember having to speak with my overseas GP to get an English version of my vaccine history. Thankfully I was up to date, because if not I would have received a bunch of them at a time before the American doctor would have okayed my case.

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    1. random reader Avatar
      random reader

      For immigration purposes (or even for the purpose of attending a US University as a student) showing immunity to a disease with a serum test instead of taking the vaccine is also acceptable (or at least it used to be before COVID). I know this because I did not receive some of the childhood vaccines common in the US that are required both for immigration and University attendance, but rather acquired the immunity by having the diseases (proven by a serum test). I did not need any additional shots to immigrate (or to study). Note that me not receiving these vaccines as a child has nothing to do with being anti-vaccine, my country simply had a different vaccination program.

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      1. Clarissa Avatar
        Clarissa

        I actually had to get revaccinated with all childhood vaccines when I came to the US. They refused to accept anything else.

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        1. PaulS Avatar
          PaulS

          I wonder why somebody would downvote a purely informative comment.

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          1. Just George Avatar
            Just George

            @ PaulS: “I wonder why somebody would downvote a purely informative comment.”

            Some people vote to signal agreement or disagreement with the comment, while others vote to signal their like or dislike of the subject/issue that the comment is talking about.

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        2. Shakti Avatar
          Shakti

          Since we’re all talking about our vaccinations… when did the USSR/FSU stop vaccinating people for smallpox?

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          1. Clarissa Avatar
            Clarissa

            Did they? My generation waa vaccinated for smallpox. Chickenpox we all had in childhood.

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            1. Pen Avatar
              Pen

              Smallpox vaccinations in the US stopped in 1972. Very rarely will people get it now — usually it’s for certain military personnel and people in labs who work with related viruses.

              Google says the USSR stopped smallpox vaccinations in 1980.

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              1. Clarissa Avatar
                Clarissa

                I was born in 1976, so that’s why I still got it.

                Like

  8. Pen Avatar
    Pen

    A good rare vaccination might be rabies vaccination, as you don’t usually get it unless you’ve been bitten by a potentially rabid animal or if you work in veterinary medicine.

    Smallpox vaccine administered after the 1970s-1980s, as well.

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