Seriously, a friend needs this for a serious purpose.
Who do you think is more relatable, JD Vance or Tim Walz? Which group would find either man more relatable?
Also, do people perceive Vance as elitist because he went to Yale?
I have my answers but I might be completely wrong about it because I’m a poor judge of relatability.
This is for a friend from another country (not Ukraine).
Walz is the most populist of all 4 candidates and billonnaire-backed Vance is the least populist of all. It would help him if he stops trying to out-Trump Trump.
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But are they relatable?
Neither Trump nor Harris are remotely relatable. Biden was quite relatable. Mike Pense would be very relatable but only to his specific Evangelical crowd.
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Walz is way more relatable. Not ivy league educated, not a multimillionaire, former teacher, coach, etc.
Also he’s got the whole “I would drink a beer with this guy.” I definitely don’t get that vibe from any of the others.
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With Vance, the “real Vance” doesn’t exist. This is pretty common for people who live expressly in one extreme, as zealots. That state of existence can last a while, and then, for one or more reasons, the zealot gives up that set of values and over-corrects. Everything he celebrated and cherished, he now denounces and despises. This is true whether you go from “I think Trump is America’s Hitler” to “Mr. Trump, can you put your ass closer to my lips so I can kiss it more firmly and with a little more tongue?”, or from far left to far right (or the other way around) or from hedonism to the most repressive of faith. The over-corrected life isn’t tenable either, of course, and sooner or later something explodes or implodes, or perhaps rots.
Now some people eventually find balance, or at least take what really works for them from a variety of sources. If Vance ever did that, some personality might emerge (although preening bully would still be an essential part of his makeup).
As for Walz, well, he has his issues, too, but not so much with relatability–he’s genuinely the “hail fellow well met” guy (a term Trump was searching for at the Indiana University of Pennsylvania rally, but never quite got. Also, it’s not Shakespeare).
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I changed my mind about pretty much everything (and only a small percentage of it is political), too. Does that mean I’m not real? The word despise doesn’t even come close to describe how I feel about many of the things I thought before. And I actually consider it one of the best things about me.
I’m not defending Vance whom I despise but he changed a small number of political opinions while being still quite young. Why is that bad? I’d be far more suspicious of a person who believes the exact same things today than they did a decade ago. Let alone several decades ago.
I really don’t get why people think that intellectual rigidity is such a great quality. Forget politics. How are they planning to make a living if they aren’t ready to shift endlessly and dramatically?
Well, the give-away is the extremes. I’ve been on this earth a butt-load of years, and I’ve seen and experienced the difference between seriously re-examining one’s beliefs and saying–“Hm, all I have to do is deny all my values and I get more power? Sign me up!”
“…changed a small number of political opinions?” Can I interest you in a bridge I happen to own in Brooklyn?
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What “small number of political opinions”???
Working in Silicon Valley venture capital or for Peter Thiel means taking a lot of money for things that further immiserate the working class and destroy the middle class if they’re successful. And since Peter Thiel invested so much money into him, it’s a given that he’ll help make that easier whether by passing laws in Congress or implementing policies as a VP. You know that Trump will have him do most of the president’s job while he “makes America great again”.
I don’t know, maybe he never claimed to care about the working and middle classes. In that case he didn’t change much.
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Totally agree.
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“JD Vance or Tim Walz? Which group would find either man more relatable?”
Have not paid a huge amount of attention to either (because life is short and precious) but in general….
Random, partly dated ideas…
Vance would be more relatable in some ways to…
right-leaning women and non-left-leaning men
(that is a smaller percentage further to the right of women and larger center to right group of men)
On the other hand, he has a habit of saying things that are off-putting and puts out a best-defense-is-a-good-offence vibe. He’s the guy your dad talks briefly to at the scout dinner and then walks away shaking his head and doesn’t want to talk about it later.
I also have the idea he’s a mean drunk.
Walz would be more relatable to people who have a collection of NPR and/or PBS tote bags at home. (not just left-right there’s a class thing going on ‘the Chablis crowd’ as a friend used to call them).
A people pleaser at heart, Walz is an enthusiastic joiner, even of clubs/movements he doesn’t understand or have any common cause with. To get positive reinforcement supply he pushes himself to the front embarrassing people who’ve been involved longer and understand things better. But he’s also the type to take things bit too seriously… he’d turn a friendly game of scrabble into an emotional ordeal and turn over the board and stomp away because you challenged ‘alloqueer’ (which he can’t define).
If I were a time-share salesman then… I’d love to see he was assigned to me. On the other hand he’s probably asked to speak to many, many managers.
I’m biased towards thinking Vance is more relatable, but that could be because I hail from the same neck of the woods.
I would say that neither one is either highly relatable or highly personable, but I’d definitely rather get a beer with Vance. Walz just feels OFF to me. It’s funny, he was chosen to appeal to moderate Midwesterners, but it seems like Midwesterners are often the ones who find him most offputting.
Walz. They both reminds me of friends’ dads even I was growing up. If we were at the mall (yes, I’m old) Walt’s kid is the one we’d ask first to call her dad for a ride home. He’d be goofy and make annoying dumb jokes, but you’d get the sense he actually liked kids and enjoyed getting everyone home safely. Vance’s kid would be calling her dad if no one else (including my own moody and taciturn dad) was available — he seems like the dad who would be really annoyed at being asked but would try to come across as the Cool Dad to his kids’ friends which would make the ride really awkward and uncomfortable.
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I think Walz fits most closely into an archetype Americans find legible and like.
Vance makes me wonder how he ever won elected office. Every other day he says or does something off-putting, clueless or repellent. I should identify with him but I don’t. He reminds me of Walker.
The beer question seems unfair im a literal way to people who had a family history of alcoholism (Vance)
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Walz, of course. Goofy and fun. You want to be around him. The other guy has weird vibes, always looking to appear human, and failing.
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Vance seems fine at first blush, but creepy if you pay much attention to him and the stuff he says/does. I also find some of his more recent comments about the Haitians eating cats and dogs thing really disturbing because he has acknowledged that it’s not true and said that doesn’t matter. He’s basically said that it doesn’t really matter if the story is a lie, that it’s fine to tell a story that reveals the “truth” of a situation even if the story is totally fabricated. I feel like people who have that sort of relationship to the truth (I’ve met some in real life) are always incredibly dangerous people.
I think Cliff was a little hard on Walz, but I have to agree with the basic analysis. He’s a people pleaser, an enthusiastic joiner, and a cheer leader. He reminds me of a former boss who I tend to think of as a “jovial bully”, everybody loved the guy, but he was always pushing his work off on to other people and pushing people to do things that weren’t really in their best interest.
There is no question that I would rather have a beer with Walz. People like that are often fun to be around as long as you don’t let them con you into organizing some huge thing that they will take most of the credit for.
I would never agree to a beer with Vance. People like him are dangerous in unpredictable ways. I don’t know how he could harm me while having a beer, but I would just as soon not put myself into that situation.
“Vance seems fine at first blush, but creepy if you pay much attention to him and the stuff he says/does. I also find some of his more recent comments about the Haitians eating cats and dogs thing really disturbing because he has acknowledged that it’s not true and said that doesn’t matter. He’s basically said that it doesn’t really matter if the story is a lie, that it’s fine to tell a story that reveals the “truth” of a situation even if the story is totally fabricated. I feel like people who have that sort of relationship to the truth (I’ve met some in real life) are always incredibly dangerous people.”
Very good point TomW. People who operate this way are definitely annoying or dangerous when they are in a position of power. They’ll lie to you and make you think it’s for your own good.
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I’m not sure about “relatable”. But I think Walz seems more “natural”– a bit more relaxed, a bit more able to speak “off the cuff”, a bit more “everyday”. Vance is socially awkward and seems to have alien-like mannerisms. I am assuming this is connected to his history of growing up in an abusive and chaotic household. I dislike Vance’s politics but, on a personal level, I have sympathy for him. He’s overcome great barriers but also bears the scars of his upbringing.
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Would not have anything to do with either of them, given the opportunity.
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All that we have to gauge the men is whay we can clean of their respective histories, or rather what they and the mediaads have released.
Walz abandoned his unit when they were expecting to be called up for dangerous service, and then further exaggerated his rank. As Govenor, he abandoned his responsibilties to his fellow citizens during the 2020 riots, allowing the burninglooting of Minneapolis. His public behavior is bizarre prancing and nancying with a goofy clownlike face and greeting his wife with a handshake instead of a hug. His ads are equally pathetic; wearing ridiculous chaps while hunting pheasants in a stubble field, and pretending to have mechanical knowledge by removing a perfectly clean air filter in a truck. C’mon, in short; this guy is as phony as a three dollar bill, and thus a perfect fit for Kamala.
We perhap have less knowledge of Vance. He was raised in a truly difficult child hood and obviously loves his grandmother for salvaging him. He has written a widely written book, quietly went overseas as a Marine, then further educated himself at Yale, and became a successful business man. In public, he does not greet his wife with a handshake, but rather with a warm hug approaching a cuddle. As a politician, he still has a habit of calling a spade a spade, or at least a shovel, which can discomfort the distaff side somewhat, but hey, nobody is perfect ;-D
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Damn, I miss the ability to edit ;-D
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A conservative literary critic and college professor
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