In case my post on the Koran proved to be too complex for some people, here is a more accessible example of why it ain’t the Koran that causes bad shit.
A priest of the Russian Orthodox Church (who is a son of family friends) posts on his Facebook page: “Thank God, these cartoonists were killed! Serves them right!” I’m guessing he hasn’t been reading the Koran a whole lot. And before you tell me he hasn’t killed anybody, let me remind you that his spiritual buddies have been killing Ukrainians since March with the slogan, “Fuck the degenerate West!”
By the way, Russians are saying Obama ordered the murder of the cartoonists to punish Hollande for saying that sanctions against Russia should be lifted. But it serves the cartoonists right because blasphemy is wrong. And the cartoonists were all gay abortionists who deserved to die.
I highly doubt that these people saw the Koran, let alone read it.
Clarissa's Blog 
I know it isn’t Koran, it doesn’t make me like Muslims more, to be honest.
Understanding it isn’t Koran doesn’t make Middle-East conflict less bloody, won’t make me trust a Muslim more, etc. Your readers know it isn’t Koran.
The latest news:
Gunman take hostages at Paris kosher supermarket
One person seriously wounded in shooting; police close shops in historic Jewish neighborhood; French media: Gunman is suspect in shooting of policewoman, member of same jihadist group as Charlie Hebdo suspects.
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4613271,00.html
Had I been religious, I would’ve wished all Muslim terrorists and their supporters burn in hell.
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“won’t make me trust a Muslim more, etc. ”
It’s a new year. Resolve to be a little less bigoted?
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\ “won’t make me trust a Muslim more, etc. ”
It’s a new year. Resolve to be a little less bigoted?
Google the name “Shelly Dadon.” She was a 19-year-old Israeli Jew, who was killed by her Arab taxi driver who said later he did it ‘for nationalistic reasons’. Not that somebody needed to hear that to know his reason. The parents of the murderer, as usually happens, say their son is “holy” and hasn’t done that.
When some Jews were afraid to use Arab taxi drivers later, they were called “racist” by the firm which provides the service. (I read an article about it.) Needless to say, most Jews don’t think the frightened customers are “racist.” Here is an article by a woman who was afraid to use the service of an Arab taxi driver in the midst of the war in Gaza and then (needlessly, imo) beat herself up about it:
http://blogs.timesofisrael.com/for-the-sin-i-have-committed-by-racism-and-fear/
Tell me honestly, do you think this woman is “racist” / “bigoted” ?
Should I use an Arab driver and then, if I end like Shelly, you will say “she was a bigoted racist fool and deserved it for oppressing Palestinians”?
Would you put your child in a taxi with an Arab driver to show off how not bigoted you are? Answer one question honestly, for a change. You usually insult me and then hide somewhere. I would’ve preferred if we either could talk honestly or that you would ignore me.
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It would might be hard to travel in certain cities in the US by taxi without using Arab cab drivers. Most of the Aramaic speaking Christians from Iraq for instance now live in Chicago and Detroit and many are cab drivers.
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Otto, I live in Israel.
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I know, but you used the term Arab not 1948 Palestinian. There are hundreds of millions of Arabs including a number of Ghanains of Syrian and Lebanese ancestry. I have been in taxis with Arab taxi drivers, African drivers, Russian drivers, Kyrgyz drivers, Jewish drivers, Turkish drivers, in Europe, Africa, Asia, and the Middle East and never felt threatened.
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Otto, you “never felt threatened.” I believe you. But are you a Jew?
I meant Muslim Arabs, actually. They are the majority of terrorists, not Christian ones. Though there are some of the latter too.
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Btw, Otto, I suppose Shelly too hasn’t felt threatened till the moment … You know.
But you are German, so you have nothing to be afraid of.
Arab driver, Jewish one, whatever.
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El, you have more of a chance to be killed in a car crash while in a taxi than to be murdered by an Arab taxi driver as a Jew. There has been a case of a young woman about my age raped and murdered by the driver whose taxi she took in my town. It’d be absolutely ridiculous for me to worry about the same thing happening to me to the point where I stop taking taxis with male drivers.
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\ El, you have more of a chance to be killed in a car crash while in a taxi than to be murdered by an Arab taxi driver as a Jew.
I think comparing decades long war between two peoples to criminal male drivers is like comparing apples with oranges.
In addition, I do not see how “therefore one must take Arab drivers” logically follows from that statement.
The chance goes up if f.e. one lives in Jerusalem, uses taxi services a lot and sees many Arab drivers.
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I also use taxis a lot and most of them have male drivers – this in a culture where if I got raped and murdered after taking a taxi alone at night I could expect a hell of a lot of victim blaming, to say the least. Comparing the population of Iasi to the population of Jerusalem, and the number of taxi murders of women in Iasi to the number of taxi murders of Jews in Jerusalem, I think we’d find out that it’s quite a bit more dangerous for me to take a taxi in my city than for you to take a taxi in yours – and both of these are way less dangerous than simply crossing the street. “Therefore one must take Arab drivers” doesn’t, of course, follow from the statement, just like “Therefore one must take male drivers” follow from a similar statement using male/female instead of Arab/Jew. What I’m saying is that if you worry more about the taxi drivers than about the car crashes, your estimation of danger seriously diverges from the actual danger you’re facing and you might want to figure out why. Of course, you don’t have to do any of this if you don’t want to. But your life might be much improved if you do.
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\ Would you put your child in a taxi with an Arab driver to show off how not bigoted you are?
In my place, as an Israeli Jew. Not as a not Jew.
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\ By the way, Russians are saying Obama ordered the murder of the cartoonists to punish Hollande for saying that sanctions against Russia should be lifted.
Just today I’ve seen somebody on an Israeli English news site and somebody on a British news site say it was the work of Mossad (Israel). To punish French for being pro-Palestinian and make them hate Muslims more. May I now say that all Westerners think so?
I am sure there is a significant minority in Russia which believes what you said, but imo your hard feelings against Russia make you generalize it about the entire country.
Previously today you didn’t want to generalize in a similar fashion about Israel despite large numbers of people who feel like that Russian speaker.
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I obviously wasn’t implying that every single Russian without exception thinks this. But this is an idea that representatives of the Kremlin are floating out in official interviews.
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It’s so funny. The one thing that unifies all racists is the enthusiasm with which they play the ‘What’s the maximum amount of racist I can be before I can be legitimately called a racist’ game. I have to say it’s very entertaining to see them construct these elaborate ‘thought-experiments’ to justify their bigotry.
“AN ARAB KILLED SOMEBODY’S BABY! DO YOU SEE HOW THAT MAKES ME NOT WANT TO TRUST MUSLIMS? WOULDN’T YOU DO THE SAME?”
Um, no.
“BERNIE MADOFF STOLE MILLIONS OF DOLLARS FROM HARD WORKING PEOPLE. SHOVE YOUR PC BULLSHIT UP YOUR ASS AND TELL ME HONESTLY IF YOU ALSO WOULDN’T START MISTRUSTING JEWS THE WAY I DO”.
Um, no.
The other thing is the sincere belief that deep down everyone is a racist, and that the PC liberals are just pretending to not be terrified of black people or muslims or Arabs. So racists try to gotcha us into admitting that we also are racist (which somehow their lizard brain translates to them not being racist. Like how?).
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So, el, let’s spare the effort here. You won’t find a clever way of phrasing your arguments that will lead me to agree with you that muslims should not be trusted, and yes, your consistent efforts to always go there suggest that you might, indeed, be racist.
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\ You won’t find a clever way of phrasing your arguments that will lead me to agree with you that muslims should not be trusted
Trusted by whom? That’s the question. You may come to the Middle East and trust them, I – no.
If I am at war with them as an Israeli Jew, why should I trust Palestinians (including Israeli Muslims)?
I don’t say anything against Druze citizens of Israel, most of whom serve in the IDF and aren’t at war with me.
It’s not about being against Islam as a religion (though I dislike all religious fanatics), it’s about being at war.
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Just out of curiosity: Clarissa, do you understand what I say and mean here? Or do you think my position is “racism”? (I believe the correct term is “Xenophobia.”)
SB, I just want to say that I am not afraid to “be called a racist.” May be, some not-Jewish people who live in perfect safety in Europe and USA are worried about all kinds of PC games and words. I worry about reality.
The murder of Shelly wasn’t a ‘thought-experiment,’ the choice whether to take an Arab driver wasn’t a ‘thought-experiment’ for the Israeli-Jewish woman in the article I linked and many other Israeli Jews, etc. It’s our reality, not ‘thought-experiments’. For YOU it is only a ‘thought-experiment.’ I honestly asked a direct question: in my place, as an Israeli Jew, would you put your child in a taxi with an Arab driver? You chose to call me a racist. I note that you haven’t said: “yes, I would, even in the middle of one of Gaza operations.”
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Yes, I would. Happy?
Observe how you went from:
“won’t make me trust a Muslim more”
to
“Would you put your child in a taxi with an Arab?”
to
“Would you put your child in a taxi with an Arab in the middle of the Gaza slaughter?”
What’s next?
“WOULD YOU PUT YOUR CHILD IN A TAXI THAT HAS THE ISIS FLAG FLYING ON ITS ROOF WITH A BROWN MUSLIM WEARING HANDGRENADES ON HIS VEST CHANTING ‘DEATH TO JEWS’? WELL, WOULDJA??
NO?? AHA, GOTCHA, YOU HYPOCRITE!! NOW LET ME KILL MUSLIMS IN PEACE”
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\ Yes, I would. Happy?
Luckily for your future children, you won’t be in such a situation. I do mean the luckily part.
I haven’t gone from anything to anything. By “trust a Muslim,” I meant “trust not to attack me / not to turn out to be a terrorist.”
// “Would you put your child in a taxi with an Arab?”
to “Would you put your child in a taxi with an Arab in the middle of the Gaza slaughter?”
The tension and mutual hatred (and usually Hamas rockets) are constant. They don’t appear out of nowhere during times of Gaza operations only. Acts of terrorism, including by Israeli Arab citizens, are constant too. Usually it’s like drops of rain, trickling, but at times those drops become a storm.
Btw, we now have very cold and rainy weather in Israel. Unusually so.
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\ “WOULD YOU PUT YOUR CHILD IN A TAXI THAT HAS THE ISIS FLAG FLYING ON ITS ROOF WITH A BROWN MUSLIM WEARING HANDGRENADES ON HIS VEST CHANTING ‘DEATH TO JEWS’? WELL, WOULDJA??
That’s probably the first time you made me laugh. 🙂
Since there are many precisely such people in the RL.
Besides, A BROWN Muslim is a part of European (and Indian?) discourse. Not an expression one hears in Israel, where many Jews are BROWN too. Or even gasp BLACK.
Otto linked to an article just now and said “It is being predicted that if Dzhokhar Tsarnaev is perceived as White he will get a lesser sentence than if he is not.”
It’s so American, so not Israeli discourse. Like from another planet.
War between Israeli Jews and Palestinians isn’t about race (most in both groups are WHITE, regardless of what some Western racist may say) or religion.
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Race is constructed according to local conditions and exists wherever there is an ethnic hierarchy in which categories are based on ancestry, are immutable, and are transmitted from generation to generation. In Israel racial divisions are along Jewish vs. non-Jewish, primarily Arab lines not simply Black vs. White. Although there is a lot of official and unofficial racism against non-Jewish African refugees in Israel. Far more than any anti-black racism in the US. However, the fact that Jews and Arabs look alike does not mean race is not involved. Race can be based upon “blood” or innate and unchangeble ethnic “culture” as well as skin color. Historically this has been very common. Race in Europe at one time was along Aryan vs. Semitic lines even though Germans and Jews are both White.
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I can see that everybody had a lot of fun while I was out shopping but I’ve got to say that the discussion has gone in a weird direction. I just imagined this scene: a Hasidic Jew in Israel (‘Cause it’s got to be somebody visibly Jewish) is running around with a small child in arms, looking for a taxi with a non-Arab driver where he could stick the kid. It’s totally the best thing to do for one’s safety. Making such a show of looking for a non-Arab driver while creating a disturbance on the road and lugging a child from one moving vehicle to another is just the ticket if safety is your concern.
On a serious note, I hope the tragic events in Paris don’t make us all slide into weirdness and hysteria. This is a highly charged situation but we will all be fine. Everything will be ok.
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I hope the events will raise important questions about what culture is and why it is necessary not to subjugate it to political concerns. We will lose our sense of literature and meaning if we slide down in that direction. It is already happening. People object to real or (more often) imagined political content in a writing, rather than reading the text to gain, first of all, an understanding of that text. They speed along and everything happens prematurely.
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I found my self nodding like one of Tony Abbot’s minders while reading this.
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oh.
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Which has reminded my, that buffoon will have something utterly moronic to say about all this. I am not looking forward to that.
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You could avert your eye.
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Let us make our collective stand against all premature ejaculations.
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\ I just imagined this scene: a Hasidic Jew in Israel …
I sometimes feel people pretend not to understand on purpose. The scene you described is one ridiculous thing after another.
” (‘Cause it’s got to be somebody visibly Jewish)” –
Wrong 1. In Israel most Arabs and Jews see who is who w/o being dressed in Hasidic clothes. Arab driver saw Shelly was Jewish w/o her being religious. They see my relatives and I are Jewish at a glance.
“running around with a small child in arms … creating a disturbance on the road” –
Wrong 2. Who catches a taxi like that? You either stand on a pavement and raise your hand when an empty taxy approaches (and then choose whether to enter) OR phone to a company and ask for a Jewish driver. I read somewhere that some Jewish customers asked for a driver which observes Shabbat in order to get a Jewish driver w/o asking for it directly.
\ I hope the tragic events in Paris don’t make us all slide into weirdness and hysteria.
For me it isn’t only Paris. Though I wanted to visit it, but now am afraid since an organized group of Israeli tourists may just attract unwanted attention.
I live in the Middle East, in Israel. What is (still?) unusual in Paris is a daily reality here. Paris just added to it since it shows once again that if you’re a Jew, you won’t be safe from Muslim terrorists neither in Israel nor in Europe.
\ we will all be fine. Everything will be ok.
Hopefully.
But some other Jews both in Israel and in Europe won’t be.
If I hope my family will be OK, it doesn’t mean I should ignore reality.
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