I just discovered a blogger who is appalled at the barbarity of parents who pierce their newborn girls’ ears but supports the parents’ “choice” to lop off parts of their newborn sons’ penises. According to this blogger the “particular gender-stamp” of pierced earlobes “is particularly abhorrent”, while chopping off bits of somebody else’s penis is not a big deal.
I agree completely that piercing a person’s earlobes without her consent is atrocious. However, in our Western civilization an earlobe and a penis carry very different sets of meanings. Inscribing your will on a child’s genitals is really not the same as doing it on her earlobe. This is a symbolic act that allows the parents to appropriate their newborn son’s sexuality in the most direct and indelible way imaginable.
It is really disturbing that some people believe in selective respect for bodily integrity. This kind of hypocrisy makes all of their pronouncements very suspect.
Clarissa's Blog 
As a male, I am extraordinarily glad to have been circumcised. As a child I didn’t feel it, and now I don’t have a fold on my skin to trap and accumulate dirt and other generally undesirable buildup. I can’t fault someone without a penis for considering nuanced pitfalls of keeping one’s foreskin, but you should know that it’s not merely an exercise in futility.
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I’m glad you are glad. 🙂 However, the percentage of people who are not glad at all is very large. And, unlike those who weren’t circumcised in infancy, they can’t change their situation.
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Should be “not considering.” Apologies.
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i know it is barbaric and unnecessary,look if you are a grown adult and want to do that 2 your penis FINE by me,be my guest but you have no right 2 do that 2 someone else,its his body let him choose-i hate parents who circumcise their babies,or make their kids get their ears pierced WTF is wrong with you!??? thanks clarissa for bringing this up.
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That’s exactly what I’m saying. It’s just wrong and I’m shocked that people are so cavalier about this issue.
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i don’t know what cavalier means but YA! right on-it’s totally wrong.
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I am not cavalier about the issue, at all, merely stating that data show circumcised men have a lower incidence of HIV infection and other STDs. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1489185/?report=abstract&tool=pmcentrez
Personally, we opted not to circumcise our son, at the advice of a friend who was not circumcised who believed being au naturale enhanced his sexual experience compared to other men. I hope there will be no medical repercussions of our decision.
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You know what else prevents the transmission of STIs?
Condoms.
Last time I checked, it’s a lot easier to put on and take off a condom than it is to grow back a foreskin.
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And much less heartbreaking, at that. My brother and his girlfriend decided to circumcise my nephew–and my little newborn nephew’s cries of pain broke my heart.
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I only read the abstract but I don’t think it suggests they get infected less — but that they spread it less. My hypothesis: if you’ve got a foreskin, it may be harder to see a lesion, and it can be easier to hide them from others. You have to wash that thing, and not be afraid to look / people have to not be afraid to look. But there are plenty of uncircumcised men without STDs, and plenty of circumcised ones with them.
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I don’t think anybody is likely to get an STD when one is a newborn. At least, unless we are talking about families of pedophiles. So I don’t really see the point of bringing up STDs in the context of newborn boys.
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So is it wrong, from a public health standpoint, to vaccinate 9 year old girls with the HPV vaccine because they aren’t sexually active yet?
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I am profoundly opposed to the HPV vaccine.
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Why?
(full disclosure- my best friend from grade school got cervical cancer at age 21; my best friend from grad school researched HPV- although not on the vaccine. It is possible I am not terribly impartial on this issue)
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https://clarissasblog.com/2010/04/30/why-im-against-the-hpv-vaccine/
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Uhm, hate to break it to you. but it’s an HPV vaccine. Not a cervix vaccine. The pathology is the (nasty, excessively mess-with-your-cell-cycle strains of the) virus.
I don’t see how the HPV vaccine is “pathologizing” women anymore than the measles vaccine is “pathologizing” children. Also, they are now recommending it for boys as well. Or are you pro-anal cancer?
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I’m against the unhealthy American dependence on medication.
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And I’m against cancer. I win.
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This country has been addicted to guzzling down meds for three generations already. And there is still as much cancer as ever. I understand that people want to assuage their anxiety about cancer this way but there are less unhealthy, non-chemical, non-invasive ways of doing that.
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The STD and HIV transmission issue may be relevant in Africa, not so much in the industrial world where there is access to condoms. Someone somewhere in the blogosphere said that removing breast tissue reduces the risk of breast cancer, but we wouldn’t go on to preemptively cut off our daughters’ breasts, would we? For goodness sake’s, we don’t even take people’s appendices out routinely, and we know they don’t serve any purpose. Foreskin, on the other hand, has a well defined purpose and nearly all mammals have it. It’s not accidental.
In continental Europe, circumcision is essentially nonexistent in men who are not Jewish or Muslim. I do not believe that Europe is any worse off that the US in terms of STD transmission.
None of my boys were circumcised and I consider circumcision to be mutilation, plain and simple. There is no way I could never endorse someone removing another person’s body parts that are not diseased.
Of course, once you are an adult, you can do whatever you want to your own body.
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Spelling fail above. There is no way I could EVER endorse someone removing another person’s body parts that are not diseased.
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I am under the impression that the appendix does serve a useful purpose, namely recolonizing the large intestine with healthy bacteria if somehow the population of these is compromised. I am not going to take time to look up a reference just now, but I think the idea that the appendix is a useless vestige has been discredited by more recent scientific research.
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David, you may well be right about the recent research on the appendix. However, my point above still stands: even while everybody believed it was useless, it was still not routinely removed, only if it got inflamed. I think it’s terrible to remove a healthy body part that serves an important purpose.
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Is the percentage large? Do you have some data to back this Clarissa? Because I’ve never met any one of them.
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There are many websites that such people open to share their said experiences. You can find them easily through a Google search. Or, you can consult these links on my blog:
https://clarissasblog.com/2011/06/24/ban-on-circumcision/
https://clarissasblog.com/2011/01/20/an-initiative-to-end-male-genital-mutilation/
https://clarissasblog.com/2009/04/06/male-circumcision/
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I’ve seen many of these arguments before, but the complaints of a few (some would say fringe) groups does not make “a large percentage”. I for one am glad I was circumcised, of course I can’t claim that I represent a large percentage either.
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I’m glad you are so in thrall to your castrating mommy. Some people, however, don;t worship the castrator until the day they die. They are much more advanced in their development than you are. So maybe you should just be quite for a while instead of exhibiting your mommy issues for everybody to see.
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LOL
with all due respect, that type of retort seems a tad… below the belt, to my mind.
First, you have no ficking clue what type of relationship people have with their parents. Second, even if you did, it’s a terrible thing to mock people over since there are no perfect children (or parents). Third, even if someone *did* have issues, they probably wouldn’t manifest *that* way.
I mean really. What would you think of someone who told you that you are interested in feminism because your Daddy wasn’t a good enough authority figure?
Fourth, I really hope no one who was ACTUALLY castrated ever reads this. (repeat after me boys and girls- the foreskin and the testicles are different body parts). I mean really. This is like a group of people talking about appendectomy scars and you break in with lung amputation.
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‘that type of retort seems a tad… below the belt”
– My retort can hardly be more “below the belt” than cutting parts of one’s penis off without their consent.
‘What would you think of someone who told you that you are interested in feminism because your Daddy wasn’t a good enough authority figure?”
-Do your homework, buddy. Feminists are more likely to come from families where the father loves and respects the daughter and her mother.
‘it’s a terrible thing to mock people over since there are no perfect children (”
-More terrible than LOPPING OFF an infant’s body part just because you feel like it? Seriously?
‘I really hope no one who was ACTUALLY castrated ever reads this. (”
-I really hope that you go educate yourself at least marginally and stop regaling people with this kind of inanities. Seriously, ignorance is nothing to be proud of.
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It appears your humor detector is broken. I suggest you get that looked at. Word has it, they are much more restorable than foreskin. There is hope for you yet!
Do you have any citations on the feminist thing? Cause that might actually come in handy.
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I have no sense of humor when it comes to genital mutilation. you are right. People who snicker at such subjects are abhorrent.
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There is a difference between snickering at someone who utterly lacks a sense of proportion, and snickering at genital mutilation. As a parent, I realize there’s a chance my son would be furious with me whichever way I chose.
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But one of these choices can easily be reversed while the other one can’t. That’s a huge difference, wouldn’t you agree?
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This exchange, Clarissa, is a consolidated view of why I was sometimes considered shockingly monstrous by some of my American peers who witnessed me in my rare real-life arguments. I absolutely do not get why one needs to be sweetness and light and ‘respectful of the choices’ made by someone one considers ethically corrupt, whereas most Americans appear to think that delivering blows to someone’s self-esteem via mockery or sharp retorts is #1 on the list of crimes against humanity. If someone’s ego is so utterly fragile that they cannot handle verbal references to their shockingly prejudiced or ignorant actions, then this, I have always felt, is not my problem.
I found this trait particularly amusing when the same “Please be hysterically nice!!!” people spoke in sympathetic voices of the need for war in Iraq or Libya or Afghanistan to “bring freedom and democracy to the people”. I’m very grateful most of my American friends were very globally aware and firmly anti-war, but most of my American acquaintances were not.
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I think this might be a legacy of the British “keeping up appearances” policy. Inflict any kind of atrocity on entire civilizations but never bring up the unpleasant realities of daily life for fear of hurting feelings.
Also, a good, direct, honest argument where I say everything I want to and don’t mince words does more to bring down my BP than any medication ever could.
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Very true!
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However, the percentage of people who are not glad at all is very large.
It would appear your “large percentage” statement is based on anecdata instead of actual numbers. Until you have real data to back up your attacks, please lay off those of us who choose to “lop off parts” of our sons’ penises. Thank you.
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“It would appear your “large percentage” statement is based on anecdata instead of actual numbers.”
-Do you even read the crap you spout? If even one person is miserable as a result of this mutilation, what normal person would inflict this risk on a helpless newborn?
“please lay off those of us who choose to “lop off parts” of our sons’ penises. Thank you.”
-You are a disgusting, vile, stupid freak. Please keep away from my blog which does not need to be polluted by your child-hating screeches. Thank you.
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“Until you have real data to back up your attacks, please lay off those of us who choose to “lop off parts” of our sons’ penises. Thank you.”
Um. No. Because regardless of numbers, chopping off other people’s body parts is fucked up.
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I’m starting to get a sinking feeling that this post has been linked to at some blog or forum of crazed mommies who will not relinquish their right to mess with their poor sons’ genitals for anything in the world.
Oy.
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…I think it has been linked to the coalition of the sane, dude.
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A person who believes that there is “the coalition of the sane” sounds like a very scary person.
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This is scientifically incorrect. Or at least, misleading in the extreme to bring up after discussing HPV. Both the incidence and mortality rate of cervical cancer have decreased dramatically over the last 30 years at least (before that, I’m not sure statistics are available).
Also, at the point where you say “non-chemical” ways, you are speaking, scientifically, nonsense. Everything is mediated through chemicals. Water is a chemical. Oxygen is a chemical.
You are either scientifically illiterate, or just plain crazy. Ignorance is nothing to be proud of indeed.
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Buddy, there are many places where you can publish comments promoting the interests of pharmaceutical corporations. Maybe they will even notice you and hurl you a bone. This is, however, not one of those places, so you are wasting your talents. As I already said, I find the American dependence on pill-guzzling stupid and ridiculous. Your assertion that there is no difference between meds and water or oxygen makes you a sad, pharma-brainwashed fool who is of no interest to me as a discussion partner. Go lop off parts of your body and guzzle some pills. Just do it away from here.
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Really, after this conversation I just don’t think I’d be up to snuff! Perhaps if things hadn’t been so tiresome I could have managed a self-appendectomy and some Prozac. Heck, when you catch me on a great day I regularly stab myself with a rusty spoon to remove bits of my liver and take morphine (although only with in that order, otherwise, what’s the point?)! I’m terribly sorry, but you’ve plum filled up my masochism quota for the evening. I feel that all I can muster is a nailclipping and some Aspirin. I hope that will be good enough. adieu
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Nothing is sadder than attempts at humor by people who are not gifted in this area. It always makes me feel vicariously embarrassed for them.
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Clarissa: I love your blog because of exchanges like this.
I don’t think there’s any other blog on the internet where the author is as willing to both a.) not censor conversations and b.) engage in verbal beatdowns of miscreants.
Keep up the good work 😀 .
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“verbal beatdowns of miscreants” is now my new favorite expression and I will bug everybody to death with it. 🙂 Thanks for coining it!
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One thing sadder is the DAOTI being FW who imagines, laughably, that her opponent who has just skewered her is in fact the DAOTI.
Wait….did I say “sadder”? I meant hilarious.
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And here is a person who is striving to coin a funny and original turn of phrase and is failing spectacularly. “DAOTI being FW” just sounds weird and carries no meaning.
I know, let’s all speak in code now. HJYT NB HYTG too? RQQWL being TYLPPO.
I think now El Picador will feel right at home. TYYEWHHJKK?
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Well his wordpress avatar is an alien, maybe that’s his home language on Planet Troll.
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YEAH!!!! Down with vaccines!!!!!! Down with antibiotics!!!!! WE WANT POLIO!!!!!!! WE WANT SMALLPOX!!!!!!!!! WE WANT THE BLACK PLAGUE!!!!!!!!! AND SEPTICEMIA!!!!!!!!!! FUCKE, YEAH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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What’s with the fit of hysteria, buddy? I can see your meds are not really helping you much.
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I don’t know Clarissa, but it seems like your response, when challenged and asked for some facts to support your statements is to pull out the personal attacks… next thing you’ll tell me is that kids shouldn’t be vaccinated because of some stuff some dudes said on the internet, right? Oh, wait, I should go, my mommy is calling… she said she lost the little box where she keeps my foreskin…
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Once again, your attempts at humor are a huge failure. And you predictions as to what I will say next are even more of a failure.
You are not prepared to participate in a discussion with grownups, buddy.
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FWDAOTI stands for “fucking with dumbasses on the Internet”. I think you can deduce what El Picador meant when he called you a DAOTI being FW…
The people you were attacked by are relatively well-known science bloggers.
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Promoting anything on my blog without my permission is not allowed, so I edited the link out of your post.
And stop calling these freaks “science bloggers”. These are just crazed castrating mommies who are compensating for their sexual misery by exercising control over their sons’ penises. That’s all they can do because no adult man would even think of bringing his penis into the vicinity of these hysterics.
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The link you edited out was to a XXXXXs twitter feed where you were discussed quite a lot last night. I thought you’d be interested in checking it out.
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I have a very popular blog, buddy. If I start reading all garbage that some unhinged fan posts about me online, I’ll never get to do anything else. So no, I’m not interested in your tweets.
Have you tried getting a life? I highly recommend.
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What if I were a lesbian? You are being a little presumptuous assuming that the freaky science bloggers sleep with men. Or that we are all female. Using the ‘no adult man would even think of’ line also strikes me as a very non-pro-female dig, ie, is a line I would expect from a misogynist.
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I wasn’t discussing you, buddy, so just relax. After your hypocritical post I have no interest in you or anything you have to say on any topic. These comments were aimed at crazed mommies who posted on my blog about how they will continue lopping parts of their sons’ penises as long as they wish.
Taking everything that is being said online personally is not a sign of mental stability.
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I am glad you recognize this. Best of luck.
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It’s always cute when people struggle to provide a snappy comeback and only manage to produce something childish like this.
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There is so much win in this comment thread:
http://you-win-the-internet.com/?n=Clarissa
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This is so cool! Thank you!
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So ass platter handitude is equated with win by the kids these days? Because in my day someone who got their ass kicked as hard as clarissa just did was pretty much considered the pathetic loser. Ahh, how the times change.
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El Picador, didn’t I tell you to buzz off already? Have some self-respect and stop changing your nickname trying to get where you are not wanted. This looks very ridiculous.
I understand that all this rejection you keep experiencing must hurt but that’s how life is for stupid, ugly losers like yourself.
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Oh circumcision again. I’d just like to say to anyone that is tossing about how it helps prevent STDs/Is I want to see the proof that its more effective that sex education and proper genital hygiene. The problem isn’t the foreskin/no foreskin when it comes to diseases its irresponsible behavior most of the time.
And as for adults that are glad they got it done as a kid, cool. You got it done and you don’t feel wronged by it, fair enough. That still doesn’t change the fact that this is a process in which a body part is being removed because it might cause problems later. Name another body part, male female or otherwise, that its acceptable to just remove for the sake of preventative maintenance.
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“Name another body part, male female or otherwise, that its acceptable to just remove for the sake of preventative maintenance.”
-A body part that it is acceptable to remove without a person’s consent, I might add. If an adult removes an arm because s/he fears it might develop cancer, let them do it. But cutting off bits of OTHER people is beyond wrong. The very idea horrifies me.
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Hey Clarissa I enjoyed this post. I am anti-circumcision but didn’t expect given your background that you would be. Your shaping up to be my favourite blogger ever.
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Oh, thank you, my friend. I got so much flak for these posts that every word of encouragement matters.
If I may ask, which background of mine did you think would make me pro-circumcision?
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I disagree most want to circumcised because it is the norm and the covenant God made with Abraham. Also since they are infants they don’t have to endure the pain. Also it is proven healthy to be circumcised and the lady’s like it
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If the parents of a newborn are so worried that ladies won’t like him unless he gets mutilated, I don’t envy that guy’s prospect for a happy personal life in adulthood.
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Just curious…all you pro-circumcision folks….why the gender bias? I assume female genital mutilation is not part of your repertoire of favored body mods …so why boys and not girls? Personally, I’m pro-choice at the age of consent…until then, your body is your body.
Male circumcision is just one more example of our history of “power over” instead of “power with” .
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I’m curious…for all you folks who are pro-circumcision..why the gender bias? I’m assuming female genital mutilation is not one of your preferred body mods. So, Why boys and not girls?
In my opinion, no one has the right to modify anyone’s body regardless of age…so, ageism, sexism??? not to mention, another glaring example of “power over” so prevalent in our society.
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apologies on the double-post…tech probs.
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Not a problem. This is a point that deserves being reiterated.
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