An idiot journalist at WashPo constructs a completely bizarre argument as to why the striking Illinois teachers are evil:
Wilfrid Laurer’s David Johnson studied the same Ontario strikes and also found that they hurt student achievement. Like Baker, he found only small effects for students for whom the strike occurred in third grade, but large effects if the student was in sixth grade. In the latter case, the percentage of students getting a passing score on math standardized tests fell by 0.21 percentage points per day, and the percentage getting a non-failing score across all tests fell by 0.10 points per day.
If this brainless maniac tried paying attention before blabbering stupidly, he would have managed to notice that the teachers are striking precisely because these standardized tests are completely useless. All this freakazoid manages to prove in his article is that the teachers are absolutely right. The success on these standardized tests is evidence of nothing save how many hours students spent memorizing specific answers to specific questions.
By the end of his article, this stupid parrot does seem to realize that he is making the teachers’ case for them:
One last thing — one could protest that all these results rely on standardized testing, which may or may not correlate to real learning. That’s fair enough, but there’s a bounty of evidence, from Harvard’s Raj Chetty (pdf) and Stanford’s Eric Hanushek, among others, suggesting that standardized test scores correlate with higher education achievement, lifetime earnings and more.
This bounty of evidence he has taken out of his ass and is now waving around proudly is worth as much as any other thing that comes out of anybody’s rectum. As a university professor who has spent the last 11 years teaching students at 4 different universities in North America and who has discussed this issue extensively with other educators, I can assure everybody that there is nothing worse than having a bunch of these standardized-test takers in one’s classroom. They have zero knowledge and no capacity to analyze facts, draw conclusions, and relay their findings either orally or in writing. Actually, it seems like the author of this article was very good at taking standardized tests given how intellectually impotent he is today.
The Soviet Union loved standardized testing and always employed the same teaching evaluation practices that Chicago teachers are striking against today. Does that tell you anything?
Clarissa's Blog 
Many…not “some”!
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TOO MANY people.
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A shitload of people!
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“This bounty of evidence he has taken out of his ass and is now waving around proudly is worth as much as any other thing that comes out of anybody’s rectum”
Mean Clarissa strikes again! 😉
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It just makes me really angry when people vilify the strikers.
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It’s Wilfrid Laurier, in fact. (not your fault here!)
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What’s Wilfrid Laurier?
I’m a little dumb today.
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Wilfrid Laurier University is an Ontario university named with a former Prime Sinister of Cacanada.
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“Prime Sinister of Cacanada”
= 🙂 🙂
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http://www.wlu.ca/
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wilfrid_Laurier
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Why so many people are anti-union like this? (and I’m very critical about unions in the public sector, but not on this very topic).
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“Why so many people are anti-union like this?”
– I think they feel envious of those who find the courage to organize and defend their rights.
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Another article that I don’t think you’ll like….
http://www.cnn.com/2012/09/11/opinion/moe-unions-teachers/index.html
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So he thinks that it’s the teachers’ fault that “Our children are being denied a quality education, fulfilling careers and productive lives. The nation is losing precious human capital, its long-term economic growth is taking a direct and destructive hit and its position of leadership in the world is seriously threatened”?
he needs to have his head examined. Maybe a careful examination will find traces of brain matter but I doubt it.
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He wrote it like there’s no bosses that actually made all this bordello happening!!!
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But I have one criticism about this strike. These teachers are utterly overpaid, but I support their “no standardized test grievance”.
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The Illinois K-12 teachers I know get paid ridiculously little. They all make under $30K per year.
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With no signority?
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No, the people I know are all only just starting their careers.
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I’m gonna go ahead and add to Evelina’s point.
If you take that $75,000 number and divide it by the ~40 weeks per year that teachers work, and then divide again by 60 hours per week, you get $31.25/hour.
Only $31.25 an hour for people who, for the most part, have Master’s degrees. (Most teachers get a Master’s once they’ve been teaching for 2-5 years. By the time they reach the point in the hierarchy where they’re actually making the “average” salary, almost all of them probably have more than one degree.) Not to mention, $31.25/hour is not going to go very far at all in Chicago. It’s a very expensive city.
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“I have one criticism about this strike. These teachers are utterly overpaid . . .”
I’m glad you support the strike and are against standardized testing but how are teachers overpaid? The average teachers goes to 5 years of school (4 years for BA and a year for a credential) and is required to keep up in his/her field. Why are teachers expected to prove their worth or their commitment to their profession by being paid less than other similarly educated professionals? Chicago is an expensive city to live in and teachers should have an income that allows them to live in a middle-class neighborhood. Nobody is complaining about bankers or CEO’s salaries and they are paid FAR FAR more than a teacher. It’s _shocking_ to me that people are worried about teacher’s salaries as CEO’s are taking in bonuses that would pay for about 10 teachers.
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“It’s _shocking_ to me that people are worried about teacher’s salaries as CEO’s are taking in bonuses that would pay for about 10 teachers.”
– Bonuses they get as a result of corporate welfare!!! AND nobody rates their performance either.
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I think that 76 000$ on average per year (if it’s really 30 000$, I will restate my claim) is overpaid. I will never have that kind of salary in Québec, not even close. (and I’m way more instructed than teachers)
“Nobody is complaining about bankers or CEO’s salaries and they are paid FAR FAR more than a teacher.”
And I agree, this is a bigger problem. But that changes nothing about my claim.
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I have seen the figure of $75,000 quoted too. Let’s just accept that number for sake of argument. How is $75,000 a unfair salary for someone who has gone to school for 5 years and who is working easily 50-60 hours a week? Again, Chicago is an expensive place to live. People I know in Chicago pay $2000 and above for their mortgage or rent. I think every teacher should start between $65,000- 75,000 and then end their careers at no less $95,00-100,00. It’s what most professionals make (engineers, lawyers, nurses). Some of those professions make much much more. Why should teachers make less than the average college- educated professional?
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“I think every teacher should start between $65,000- 75,000 and then end their careers at no less $95,00-100,00. ”
– It would also be good if college professors made anything like this kind of money.
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Ugh.. where to begin.. I will address my other issues in later comments.. but your complaint about teachers vs. CEO’s pay is ludicrous. There are at best 2,000 CEO’s of the type you are talking about… and over 5 million teachers in this country.. MUCH harder to be a CEO… something called supply and demand.. econ 101 (I do agree some CEO’s are bailed out.. which is despicable).. but you really lose credibility with ludicrous statements.
Another critical point about the salary.. they work 3/4 of the year… so.. um.. yeah… that is a huge life-style bonus almost no one else gets. Also, their pensions are through the roof… essentially there pension adds between 15-25k annually from an actuarial basis ( I can explain details if needed).. but this basically means it should be added to the average 76k. So the average teacher really makes 90-100k in comparison to the private sector…
So… enough said on that… I will chalk one up for Matt here 🙂 Normally don’t like to spike the ball and like to be more cordial.. but I am so right here I just have to pat myself on the back for once!
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“Also, their pensions are through the roof… essentially there pension adds between 15-25k annually from an actuarial basis ”
– Are you making fun of me? I work in the public education system in Illinois. What pensions, buddy? Our pension fund has been looted, or haven’t you heard? People who have been teaching here for 30 years are not going to be getting any pensions. Let alone anybody who has worked here for less time. Please don;t mention pensions to any public worker in Illionois if you don’t want people to hate you.
“So the average teacher really makes 90-100k in comparison to the private sector…”
– The average teacher I know makes $28K in Illinois. You really need to check the facts before you blab. For shame.
“but I am so right here I just have to pat myself on the back for once!”
– You are so deluded that I feel vicarious shame for you.
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“- Bonuses they get as a result of corporate welfare!!! AND nobody rates their performance either.” You’re absolutely right, but this changes nothing to my claim.
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“No, the people I know are all only just starting their careers.”
Okay, this is very different than the 76 000 on average. So the fucking public sector syndicalo-bossist mantra of “signority is more important than competence” strikes again!
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oops, seniority, I think.
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“An idiot journalist at WashPo constructs..”
Not everyone at the Washington Post is an idiot.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/answer-sheet/post/the-real-problem-with-rahms-school-reforms-in-chicago/2012/09/11/c77c3cc4-fba4-11e1-8adc-499661afe377_blog.html
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Finally, somebody is saying something intelligent on the subject.
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Does anyone think k-12 teachers are on MASS high intellectual achievers? (bear in mind my sister was 2nd in her high school class and one of my best friend who is also a teacher was valedictorian at her school). But in general, and both of them have commented on this.. the standard teacher is not highly motivated, high skilled, or particularly brilliant. I know I am coming off entirely harsh.. but this issue is bullshit. I am as passionate about education reform as about any topic and about anyone out there.. but the way certain people coddle teachers is ridiculous. In general 10-30% of teachers are great…20-40% are mediocre… and the other 30-50% need to be weeded out (often these are the most tenured…. and thus the highest paid.. but who are woefully unmotivated or equipped to teach).
Standardized tests are not perfect… but they are at least one way of objectively having some standards. Even more importantly, I have a hard time taking anyone seriously who says they are “for the kids” but against charter schools. If Charter schools are bad in the long-run no one will choose to go there. What part of that logic is wrong? The only objection to letting people choose as I could see it would be to say “we know what is best for them..”… but i know how you despise paternalism Clarissa so I would hope/assume you at least support the choice of charters.
Of course some are bad… but many are great! Definitely believe they should have the same standards as public schools… but let them flourish.
I know I am just serving up red meat for those who agree with me here and am unlikely to change positions… but wow… I now see how some people get bitter and shut off on issues because it drives me insane these same ridiculous arguments about teachers ….
1. They are paid well
2. Standardized testing is at least an objective measure of knowledge. I guarantee you being a valedictorian i would out-perform 99% of kids on tests… which ding ding ding is what tests are supposed to directionally measure
3. Charter schools can be a great force (but need to be made to compete and be held to the same standards)
4. Teachers almost never get fired after five years on the job… which is just ridiculous and NO other (non-govt.) industry does this… this clearly is not a recipe to keep the best
End of rant for now.. but will probably comment more soon. SO ANNOYED RIGHT now…
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“Standardized tests are not perfect… but they are at least one way of objectively having some standards.”
– No, they are not. They don;t measure anything and only produce completely stupid, ignorant students.
” Standardized testing is at least an objective measure of knowledge.”
– Is it some sort of a mantra for you? No, it isn’t an objective measure of anything. I have 22 years of teaching experience, so I’m not interested in any opinions on this subject from anybody who hasn’t even taught a single class.
“I guarantee you being a valedictorian i would out-perform 99% of kids on tests…”
– What are you, 3 years old? Who cares about stupid valedictorians or stupid tests?
” If Charter schools are bad in the long-run no one will choose to go there. What part of that logic is wrong? The only objection to letting people choose as I could see it would be to say “we know what is best for them..”… but i know how you despise paternalism Clarissa so I would hope/assume you at least support the choice of charters.”
– I don’t know anything on the subject, so I don’t have an opinion. It would be great if you could do the same on standardized tests since you don;t have to do endless remedial learning every single days who come out of IL schools without even being able to find this continent on a freaking globe.
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Charter schools are a privatization scheme, and many are eccentric or substandard. There are great alternative public schools and I would much rather see public money go to a public asset, not into the pockets of the people owning these charter outfits (many of which will not last).
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“Charter schools are a privatization scheme, and many are eccentric or substandard. There are great alternative public schools and I would much rather see public money go to a public asset, not into the pockets of the people owning these charter outfits (many of which will not last).”
– So these schools have an OWNER, yet they get PUBLIC money? OK, the insanity intensifies. Who came up with this piece of brilliance, I wonder.
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Charter schools are not privately-owned. Charter schools are essentially a hybrid between public schools and private schools. They allow the freedom in teaching and curriculum a private school provides, but are publicly-funded and owned. They are held accountable regarding academic achievement standards since they get public money and more freedom.
They are a part of the public education system and are a way to introduce the element of competition into the public education system. They tend to be non-unionized however and the teachers unions tend to hate them because they provide an element of competition and are also not subject to the demands of the teachers unions.
The public education system functions as a Soviet-style system. It was originally structured off of the Prussian education system, which was not designed to educate people so much as to school them in a specific way of thinking. It was very good at producing soldiers and employees, as that is what big business and industry, and government wanted at the time. It was the time of factories and industry jobs dominating the economy, the assembly-line. They did not want people with critical-thinking skills.
John Taylor Gatto, who taught in the New York City public school system for nearly thirty years and was named the New York City Teacher of the Year and New York State Teacher of the Year, has written extensively about all of this in his books, “The Underground History of American Education: A Schoolteacher’s Intimate Investigation Into the Prison of Modern Schooling,” his “Weapons of Mass Instruction: A Schoolteacher’s Journey Through the Dark World of Compulsory Schooling,” and his “Dumbing Us Down.” One of his central points is that rather than failing, the public education system is spectacularly successful at doing what it was originally designed to do, which is to pump out people who are not really educated and who do not think critically.
A relic of this for example is the bell system where children change classrooms for each class with the ring of a bell. That was to socially condition children for working in industry. Private schools and Catholic schools do not use any such bell system and have each grade in its own classroom.
Charter schools and school vouchers are thus a way to introduce a “free-market” element into this system if you will, to create competition. Being that school choice completely undermines the power of the teachers unions however, the unions seek to undermine school choice, and thus wage a never-ending war against school vouchers, charter schools, and even private schools.
For example, efforts to unionize the teachers in charter schools are on-going, which will destroy the ability of those schools to be unique as they will then begin functioning like conventional public schools. Now charter schools are not a panacea. There are some crappy charter schools and there are some really great public schools, but charters provide an alternative to conventional public schools.
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“They allow the freedom in teaching and curriculum a private school provides, but are publicly-funded and owned.”
– So why do the taxpayers have to be paying for something this bizarre??? I’m completely appalled.
“Charter schools and school vouchers are thus a way to introduce a “free-market” element into this system if you will, to create competition.”
– And I as a taxpayer should pay for this shit? Jeez. . . I’m being robbed here. Can anybody tell me who is the brain-damaged imbecile who invented this idea? Does anybody have a name or a few?
“The public education system functions as a Soviet-style system.”
– Kyle, please make an effort and spare us this round of ignorance. Have you ever been inside a Soviet school? I have. I got educated in one and I can assure you that the statement you made is egregiously stupid. Please try to control yourself. It is impossible to discuss anything with a person who fires off such silly things. The next comment you make that mentions the Soviet Union IN ANY CONTEXT will be moderated. Choose any other topic but this one. I hope you manage to respect my request.
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“- So why do the taxpayers have to be paying for something this bizarre??? I’m completely appalled.”
The opening of charter schools is influenced by the public desire. If the public in an area is very against it, the government won’t open them. If they are for them however, they will open them. Why do you consider them bizarre? They are designed and governed by each local community, as opposed to a central bureaucracy, which allows them to meet the needs of each area better (or so goes the idea anyway).
“- And I as a taxpayer should pay for this shit? Jeez. . . I’m being robbed here. Can anybody tell me who is the brain-damaged imbecile who invented this idea? Does anybody have a name or a few?”
In 1991, Minnesota’s legislature passed the first charter for a charter school, and the first one opened in 1992. Remember, charter schools are part of the public education system though. They are not subsidies given to privately-owned schools. All students are allowed to attend them and they do not collect tuition.
I would think it would be an idea you would like as it allows choice regarding schooling for one’s children, and you say you love there to be choices available.
“- Kyle, please make an effort and spare us this round of ignorance. Have you ever been inside a Soviet school? I have. I got educated in one and I can assure you that the statement you made is egregiously stupid. Please try to control yourself. It is impossible to discuss anything with a person who fires off such silly things. The next comment you make that mentions the Soviet Union IN ANY CONTEXT will be moderated. Choose any other topic but this one. I hope you manage to respect my request.”
My apologies, however I did not at all mean that the average American public school is the equivalent of a Soviet school. I just meant that the structure of the American public education system itself, is structured in the way the Soviet system was (i.e. government-owned and government-run, government employees, etc…). However I probably should not have used the term “Soviet-style,” so again sorry.
It’s like if you said the British National Healthcare Service is “Soviet-style” in its structure, in that it’s a government-owned and operated system—but that doesn’t mean of course that the NHS itself provides the equivalent healthcare of the Soviet system (which going from what you’ve written about it was not very good).
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1. They are paid well
HAHAHAHAHAHALOLSOB.
If I had children — and based on my income — they would qualify for free/reduced lunch at the school where I teach. That is, even the school system believes that I do not make enough money to feed my own (hypothetical and forever nonexistent) children.
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My colleague’s husband has worked as a teacher in the Illinois public school system for over 20 years. He is a teacher and the football coach. He makes $60K and now that our pension system is shot to hell, he doesn’t even know when he will be able to retire. So I have no idea what people are talking about with these imaginary $100K salaries.
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Matt, I’m going to respond to this:
“If Charter schools are bad in the long-run no one will choose to go there. ”
I suspect this isn’t true. Most private schools are awful, but people still pay thousands and thousands of dollars per year to go there. There’s a common misconception out there that a private school will provide a better education than a public school, and somehow, no amount of entitled jerks with no real education or knowledge being churned out of private schools will end this misconception. I think it’s entirely possible that the same phenomenon will happen with charter schools.
Of course, it might not. Maybe the general public still goes on thinking that private schools are good because the really rich products of private schools never actually interact with the “commoners” enough for the general public to see how little they really know. Or maybe it has nothing to do with that, and people just choose private schools for the prestige. So maybe the success of charter schools will be dictated by their performance. I’m just a little skeptical, since the success of private schools is NOT dictated AT ALL by their performance.
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““If Charter schools are bad in the long-run no one will choose to go there. ””
– Yes, let’s sit here and wait for “the long run” when we are all surrounded by illiterate idiots and there is not a single person capable of even understanding, let alone creating, technological advances in this country.
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“the standard teacher is not highly motivated, high skilled, or particularly brilliant.”
Chicken and egg problem here. Pay teachers better and more intelligent, highly motivated people will become teachers. There is still the feeling among a lot of people that a teaching career is a last resort. This situation varies a lot from state to state, however. In states that pay well, teachers are more motivated, less depressed, and more effective. I am just going on personal experience with teachers I am acquainted with and students who tell me about their teachers.
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“Pay teachers better and more intelligent, highly motivated people will become teachers.”
No, all you have to do is…just hire good teachers! But statist school aren’t very interested by that.
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Why Are (Some) People Stupid?
Because politicians want to be in charge of education, instead of trusting education to actual educators.
Really, given the system, what we should be asking is — “How do some people escape?”
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Well, the status of charter schools is murky and odd, and there are different ways of designating, funding, and running charter schools. Here’s Diane Ravitch’s fairly famous piece on them: http://www.nybooks.com/articles/archives/2010/nov/11/myth-charter-schools
Here she is, very concisely, on current situation with this in Louisiana. http://dianeravitch.net/2012/08/25/local-school-board-in-louisiana-roasts-john-white/
The thing is: you drain money from the public system to fund, via vouchers, somebody’s semiprivate startup.
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