I fell asleep and snoozed through the first half of the debate. Some political correspondent I am. So please feel free to tell me how you felt about the first half-hour that I missed.
I woke up to Romney saying that he knows “how to balance budgets.” I will scream if I hear this idea that any budget is balanced in the same way once again. Does anybody still not understand that governing a country is not the same as balancing any other budget?
Obama was given a wonderful opportunity to talk about women’s issues and he squandered it by telling the same boring story about his mother and grandmother that he already told in the first debate. In those same words! I think he is trying to lose the election. And then he said “this is not women’s issue, this is a family issue and middle-class issue.” OK, folks, as a woman I find this hugely insulting. A woman has interests of her own that are separate from the interests of any family. And there are women who don’t belong to the middle-class. This was such a great chance to get the female vote and Obama did a phenomenally bad job.
Obama seems to believe that women are only worth existing if they bring up great men like him. Does he have a single female adviser preparing him to this debate?
The whole thing is hopeless. The supposedly pro-women candidate opens his mouth and tells us how great his Mommy and Grandma were and how women’s rights should only be defended as long as this benefits “the family.”
Romney shared d a bunch of baloney on the subject, too. “Stronger economy will benefit women all on its own.” This was not an answer to the question. Extremely strong economies have existed without benefiting women in the least. Does he own a history textbook?
Obama decided he needed to hammer down his idiotic point even more and said that contraception is important because “that is money from the family budget.” The possibility that there are crowds of women with their own budgets does not even begin to occur to him. There are women who make their own money and don’t ask any men to pay for their contraception, Mr. President. You better wake up and recognize that.
Obama used the expression “women and families” consistently. In his mind, women do not exist at all unless they serve some family need. He can’t even think in terms of just women, it seems.
Oh just shut the fuck up about “these are not women’s issues, these are family issues.” A few more slogans like this one and I will switch sides.
Obama didn’t manage to make the case that Romney is not different from Bush. This could have been another brilliant way to hit Romney but it was squandered, too. I don’t care, though, because I’m still reeling from “women and families” and “women’s issues do not exist.” Super valuable when said by a man. I told you, people, I’m a feminist first and everything else second. I hear “there are no women, there are just families”, and I care about nothing else.
Obama helps make Romney’s point that Romney is different from Bush. Is he insane? This is exactly what Romney wants.
Obama says, “This is not the kind of leadership that you need.” Very condescending. The entire campaign, all of the debates and the election itself is about people deciding for themselves what they need.
Romney says that unemployment hasn’t been reduced since 2008. Everybody knows that this is completely wrong.
And now Obama has said that Latino immigrants are gang-bangers. That is how it sounded to me. I wonder how he would feel if he said “black” and somebody immediately responded with “the ones who are gang-bangers or the good ones?” I think he has now alienated the Latin vote. Women gone, Latinos gone, who’s sticking around?
Of course, Romney is so disagreeable that the election seems to offer a very sad choice no matter whom you prefer.
There was a very weird “mine is bigger than yours” macho crap competition about where these two very rich men invested their huge pensions. In the meanwhile, women belong to the families and have no budgets of their own. Yes, I will be on this like a broken record for months. This is my blog, so deal with it.
Romney said that Obama started his presidency with an “apology tour.” That’s a great thing. Is he now trying to promote Obama? (Yes, I know he is pandering to his base. I’m just being facetious.)
Obama continues to present his sexist persona. “Hillary Clinton works for me!” in a tone that would have incensed me if my Chair or Dean discussed me in this manner.
Obama shares another boring story about “a guy and his Mom.” In his stories, women always appear as companions, caretakers and furniture surrounding the all important men. Men are protagonists. Women are supporting staff. He knows how crucial women’s vote is for this election, yet he didn’t even try to get some advice from women on how to speak about and to women without sounding like an overentitled male douche?
Romney decides to catch up with Obama in terms of sexism and suggests that people who have children without getting married are creating future criminals and drug lords. According to this bizarre logic, my niece Klubnikis, who already speaks 4 languages in complete phrases at age 2,5, who is surrounded by a crowd of adoring relatives and who is developed better than the absolute majority of kids her age according to every criterion, is doomed to go about waving an automatic rifle because her parents chose to live together without getting married officially. What an idiot.
Am I insane or did the moderator interrupt Obama with “Yeah, right”, said sarcastically under her breath?
The moderator is obviously extremely pro-Romney. Is it a normal practice to choose moderators who have such heavy political biases?
I don’t know who won the debate in your eyes but Obama lost it in my book with the way he handled the questions about women. I don’t care if this is how he really sees women or if he is pandering to the patriarchally minded folks in this country. I just know that if we had elected Hillary 4 years ago, we wouldn’t be hearing this crap today.
We need a female president, folks. These guys, with their Mommies, Grandmas and bored housewives cheering them on, have no idea how most women live in this country.
I wish I just continued sleeping through this debate because I have been extremely disappointed in Obama.
Clarissa's Blog 
I missed the first half, too. I managed to find it on the internet right when Romney was saying how women should be let out of work early to make dinner. How in the world did he think that answered a question about fair pay?
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“I managed to find it on the internet right when Romney was saying how women should be let out of work early to make dinner. ”
– I didn’t see that part. This sounds disgusting. But we all knew he was a total sexist anyways.
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It seems to be out of fashion in American politics to mention wanting to help women outside the context of their families.
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It’s out of fashion because we allow this. 😦
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Clarissa:
I agree with most of your points. I watched the entire debate. Obama was much sharper than in the first debate and I think the debate overall was a draw. However, because Obama has a record, he failed when challenged to explain why things are not as good as he had promised they would be. The failure is not a matter of debating skill. One cannot lie completely about the facts in front of 70 million viewers.
Ultimately, I believe that voters’ views about the state of the economy will determine this election. All the social stuff is marginal simply because individuals really fear their economic futures. As well they should.
It is a very good thing that Obama faces a real risk of losing this election. He is very arrogant and this is the first real setback for him. If he wins, he will have a little more repect for others. And if he loses, well he is still young enough to move on, learning from his past errors.
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If a right wing retard like Rowley says “I think the debate overall was a draw” it can only mean that Romney lost handily.
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Let’s not use the word “retard” because I;m an autistic and this is a very offensive term to me. I grew up to the sounds of “retard” addressed to me because I was slower than other kids. 😦
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“It is a very good thing that Obama faces a real risk of losing this election. He is very arrogant and this is the first real setback for him. If he wins, he will have a little more respect for others.”
– I have to agree. I also see a huge arrogance in how he treats his base and in how he takes it for granted that certain groups in the population will vote for him no matter what. That is a big mistake.
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I think Obama clearly won this one. I was watching the debate with three friends, ranging from left-wing-to-moderate (Jaime) to a friend of mine who is a hard-core Canadian leftist, and we all agreed that Obama came out swinging right from the beginning, far different from the meek man we’d seen in the first one. I remarked that I hadn’t seen a political sparring with so many heavy punches since Justin Trudeau knocked down Patrick Brazeau!
One thing we noticed and appreciated was how many women were in the audience, asking questions, even if the answers regarding women’s issued were waffled on/less than satisfactory.
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Obama looks very tired. The past 4 years have aged him enormously. This is understandable, of course, because the job is hard.
As for women, I would have preferred to see two women on the stage instead of any number of women in the audience. 🙂
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As for women, I would have preferred to see two women on the stage instead of any number of women in the audience.(Clarissa)
If that would mean they would have different political agendas, then great. But if they are as influenced by big money as is clearly evidenced by Obama and Romney then it doesnt matter what gender they are. 😦
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“If that would mean they would have different political agendas, then great. But if they are as influenced by big money as is clearly evidenced by Obama and Romney then it doesnt matter what gender they are.”
– Are you reading the posts before responding? I explained very clearly why it matters.
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But what if the women dont share your ideology. I would imagine there are some women who would get on that stage that you would clearly want off. Michelle Bauchmann comes to mind or maybe Sarah Palin.
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I formulate my technical public choice judgments on such matters very carefully, without allowing personal preferences to intrude. The debate was a close run thing. Romney is smarter than Obama but Obama has incumbent advantages. Unless there is a late October surprise, I expect the election to be as close as 2000.
How do you define a retard? I should be really interested to see your scientific definition, if you have one.
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I believe the legal definition of a retarded person is someone with an IQ lower than 65.
My son gets called retarded and stupid because he has ADHD, and thus, has some trouble keeping up with conversations, as he gets distracted. It bothers me a lot when I hear someone say retarded. When I was younger, and didn’t have kids, it didn’t really phase me. Now, I’ve woken up.
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“How do you define a retard? I should be really interested to see your scientific definition, if you have one.”
Heh. That’s easy. To some people it’s anyone to the right of Joe Stalin.
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“Let’s not use the word “retard” because I;m an autistic and this is a very offensive term to me. I grew up to the sounds of “retard” addressed to me because I was slower than other kids.”
Sorry. I meant to say he’s an idiot, and that’s the word I should’ve used.
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I agree that Obama misses the mark with women. Neither candidate said anything useful about pay disparities, and Romney’s comment about pulling in a binder full of women so that he could exercise his weird version of affirmative action was absurd. You are very right. We need a woman president. We don’t need one so badly, though, that I’d ever vote for crazies like Michele Bachmann or Sarah Palin. I wish Hillary Clinton had won. I voted for her in the primary.
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“We don’t need one so badly, though, that I’d ever vote for crazies like Michele Bachmann or Sarah Palin.”
– Of course, I agree. That would be a huge disaster.
“I wish Hillary Clinton had won. I voted for her in the primary.”
– I was on her side, too.
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//suggests that people who have children without getting married are creating future criminals and drug lords
What would you think / feel, had he said thus about children of single mothers?
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This was precisely a dig at single mothers. The Republicans love to beat up on single mothers which I find very offensive. Romney said, “Get married before you have children.” At the same time, he wants to defund Planned Parenthood. His position is very hypocritical.
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I thought so. Simply you gave as an example Klubnikis, who is not in a single-parent situation, so I asked your pov RE children he meant to refer to, in real single mother families.
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I think that single mothers are unfairly stigmatized and that is absolutely wrong. A single father is always a hero but a single mother is frequently deemed a producer of criminals and a horrible person. THAT IS WRONG!!!
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I accept Stringer Bell’s apology and I thank Clarissa for her intervention.
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“Oh just shut the fuck up about “these are not women’s issues, these are family issues.” A few more slogans like this one and I will switch sides.”
Swith sides? You mean, the Green Party of the US? I would vote for them too:)
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Your reaction is interesting to me. I thought Obama did well and clearly won the debate. I thought he seemed passionate but presedential and I thought he seemed very much aware of policy. His first few answers, which you missed, set the tone for me. So perhaps that’s the difference.
Moreover, I actually thought Obama did quite well when he spoke of women’s issues and I was fairly happy with him. Though I share your annoyance that he only talked of women as extension of family, I liked that he cast contraception an economic issue. Also most Americans see contraception as something that is only a “single women’s issue.” So I thought that Obama was trying to make the case that contraception is something that all citizens, including men and women with families, should care about. I also liked that he talked about the importance of Planned Parenthood. So, while I had a couple of issues with how he talked about gender, (but I will _always_ have issues with how people discuss gender), I personally thought Obama did well with women’s issues. In many ways, I think Obama is better on women’s issues than any presedential candidate in my memory. I could be wrong but I think he is the first candidate to ever make contraception a part of the conversation at all. So I’m giving him a bit of leeway here. 🙂
For what it’s worth, I also agree that the gangbangers comment was offputting but I thought that his firm stance against the horrible Arizona law and his support of the Dream Act made it clear that Obama is a much better choice for Latinos. Anyway, though I had a different reaction, I always like reading your perspective! 🙂
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“I liked that he cast contraception an economic issue”
– For the middle class. That’s what he said in a very pointed way. And that makes absolutely no sense at all. The middle-class folks can pay for their own contraception easily. It isn’t a huge hardship to them when contraception isn’t covered.
“So I thought that Obama was trying to make the case that contraception is something that all citizens, including men and women with families, should care about. ”
– I honestly didn’t see all citizens there. I saw a suggestion that contraception only mattered to married middle-class women because it impacted their husbands’ wallets.
“Also most Americans see contraception as something that is only a “single women’s issue.””
– Aren’t they right, though? The highest incidence of unwanted pregnancies does not really occur among married middle-class 40-year-olds. The 16-year-old girls for whom $30 per month is a huge amount of money are the ones who suffer.
It really bothers me how every issue in this country is always subsumed by the imagined neediness of the married middle-class folks. I mean, I’m one of them, and I’m not that needy. There are people in real need but both candidates pretend like they don;t exist.
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I agree that free contraception is something that is most important for people in vulnerable positions (young, lower income etc.) But, crazy as it seems, contraception is still stigmatized in this country. Many Americans either see it as unnecessary or as only important “to sex crazed single women.” So I think that at this point Americans (or perhaps American men) need to realize that _all_ women need and use contraception–that contraception is a fundamental and basic facet of a woman’s existence. Once contraception is destigmatized then it becomes easier to talk about how to grant the vulnerable access to it. But I do agree with the spirit of what you are saying. I just think that this is the first time contraception has ever been discussed in an election and I find it refreshing. Perhaps my standards are too low. 😉
Re: the middle class, I completely agree that the middle class has been discussed to death and the lower classes ignored in this election. Part of this is the American peculiarity that refuses to identify as either lower or upper class. Something like only 7% of Americans identify as lower class while in reality something like 15% of American’s live in poverty. By contrast, something like 90% of American’s self-identify as middle class. So by addressing the middle classes, politicians are in some ways addressing everybody—from those making $25,000 to those making $150,000. But I agree: the refusal to acknowledge poverty in this election is still very very troubling.
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” Many Americans either see it as unnecessary or as only important “to sex crazed single women.””
– The birth rates in this country are 2,5. This would not be possible if many people refused to use contraception. In reality, 99% of women and 93% of men use contraception (http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nsfg/abc_list_c.htm#currentuse).
So who are those people who supposedly stigmatize contraception? Evangelical preachers? But they are never going to vote for Obama anyway.
“So I think that at this point Americans (or perhaps American men) need to realize that _all_ women need and use contraception–that contraception is a fundamental and basic facet of a woman’s existence.”
– If Obama said anything of the kind, I’d be happy. He said the opposite, though. He said that contraception is not about “just women” but about the family’s pocketbook. Which, of course, gives a massive weapon to all those men who want to force their wives into pregnancies against their will. The idea that only a woman should decide whether to get pregnant or not has been lost completely. Now it’s all about what’s best “for the family.”
“By contrast, something like 90% of American’s self-identify as middle class.”
– I didn’t know this. Is this one of the manifestations of people not wanting to believe that class divisions exist in this country?
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“I didn’t know this. Is this one of the manifestations of people not wanting to believe that class divisions exist in this country?”
Yes. American’s are really funny about class. I don’t like Real Clear Politics all that much but this is a good article on the subject (it refers to the Pew survey that was on my mind when I wrote the above comment): http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2012/08/27/saving_the_middle_class_115210.html
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Have you heard this RE women issues?
Politician Who Said ‘Some Girls Rape Easy’ Was Discussing the Actual Rape of a 14-Year-Old Girl
http://jezebel.com/5952166/politician-who-said-some-girls-rape-easy-was-discussing-the-actual-rape-of-a-14+year+old-girl?post=53561825
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The child rapist is sentenced to 90 days??? And the jerk of a politician makes jokes about this?
The people of Wisconsin who just sit there and tolerate this and then go vote for this freak are complete idiots.
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