Now, repeat after me: “Clarissa is always right.”
Years ago, I wrote a post titled “Why Female Viagra Doesn’t Exist.” In the post, I explained that even though this is an invention that could bring billions upon billions of dollars in revenues, it will not be made because there is a huge opposition in society to the very idea of this product.
The few readers I had at that time objected and grumbled. But guess what? I was right, as usual. See here:
Journalist Daniel Bergner, whose story on the still-being-developed wonder drug was published last week in the New York Times Magazine, says researchers worry about creating an orgasm-hungry nympho. Yeah, the author expressed surprise at that, too.
“More than one adviser to the industry told me that companies worried about the prospect that their study results would be too strong, that the F.D.A. would reject an application out of concern that a chemical would lead to female excesses, crazed binges of infidelity, societal splintering,” Bergner writes.
Nobody wants women to liberate the full force of their libidos because too many of societal structures that hinge on female sexual repression will collapse. For instance, a woman who is familiar with the concept of an orgasm cannot be bought. And that is what terrifies so many people (both men and women).
P.S. Yes, my writing skills were much poorer when I first started blogging. So what? I was still right.
Clarissa's Blog 
The comments there are even “better” than the article:
A male commentor: “On the positive side it may make those women who are prescribed it and can afford it likely to breed. That is a good thing in a population with only 67 out of a thousand women pregnant.”
A female commentor calms down the worried masses: “I’m pretty sure doctors aren’t going to hand them out like candy; so what’s the big deal?”
Why NOT hand them like candy? Isn’t Viagra freely bought without prescription? Or, at least, handed like candy?
Another man:
“Hate to sound like a prude, but have any of you really thought about this?
Is this really about women getting what they want, or men getting what they want from women?
Suppose it works just great. Think of the applications:
– Pimps can hand it out their stables of ho’s to make them more productive
– Date rape drug, anyone?
– Men can pressure their girlfriends to take a double dose
Will it be addictive? Will there be a psychological or physical dependency? What happens to a relationship if she decides to go “off the pill”? What happens to a relationship if he takes Viagra and she takes this stuff to, um, maximize the romance? The results will probably be comical, and might be tragic, but are not likely to be romantic.
Will it affect judgement in ways that put women at risk? For men, the usual sexual pursuers, the quest for sex can be dangerous and expensive. If women are suddenly and unexpectedly horny, will this change their behavior in other ways? Will they become susceptible to STDs? To manipulative males?
Once upon a time people thought Dexedrine was God’s gift to athletes and the overweight. Free energy! Easy weight loss! It took years to realize … speed kills.
This could be a Good Thing[tm], yes. But do look a Trojan horse in the mouth. It’s only prudent. ”
The comments there are even “better” than the article:
A male commentor: “On the positive side it may make those women who are prescribed it and can afford it likely to breed. That is a good thing in a population with only 67 out of a thousand women pregnant.”
A female commentor calms down the worried masses: “I’m pretty sure doctors aren’t going to hand them out like candy; so what’s the big deal?”
Why NOT hand them like candy? Isn’t Viagra freely bought without prescription? Or, at least, handed like candy?
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Hilarious, eh? Just the idea itself makes people go into a state of high panic. And this is in a culture where everybody guzzles enormous amounts of medication for any invented illness with perfect ease. 🙂 🙂
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Wanted to ask whether you have lately made any changes to the blog’s layout. The blog is presented wrong, if I use Google Chrome. As long as I don’t click on posts, it looks normal, but if I click on a specific post, the comments aren’t presented as well as usual and I am unsure how to comment.
Internet Explorer is worse, when I comment, since n the field of a comment I see only the 1st few lines, like now. 😦 That’s why my comment above doesn’t look 100% good, with a repetition.
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Really?? No, I haven’t changed anything in months. I use Google Chrome, too, and don’t see a problem.
People, do you see a problem? Does anybody have any ideas what is going on??
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Everything looks fine for me on Opera and Firefox
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Thank you!
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I thought you would be against it since it’s a medication and since as some said women should be freer psychologically and men – better lovers, so such a drug wouldn’t be necessary.
I am for it, though. Without a drug many women live their lives without experiencing orgasm even once, or only a few number of times. Telling “be more free in your mind” doesn’t help. If a woman experiences something with a drug, I believe the chances of experiencing w/o a drug increase.
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I agree completely. This is the kind of liberation that can give one enough energy to start solving other problems, too. Getting from underneath the millenia of oppression that were aimed at messing up women’s sexualities is extremely hard. It doesn’t matter what gives the first push, just as long as it is given. The real tragedy of the issue is that until one actually knows what an orgasm is like, one cannot understand why it is worth any effort. It’s like a vicious circle where people don’t make a lot of effort to achieve something they don’t know is worth any effort.
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My advisor for my honours thesis at UVic teaches a class on the Medicalization of Sex, and sexual pharmaceuticals like Viagra and the hunt for the “pink” (as branded by drug companies) Viagra were a big part of the content. Based on what I learned in that course, I predict that if it does pass muster at the FDA, then they’ll do an even more aggressive campaign than they did with Viagra to make it seem like a family-friendly “marriage saving” drug, so that it partially avoids the “nympho” stigma. I can already see endorsements from middle-aged celebrities like the women on The View, or maybe some television starlet, like they had Bob Dole sponsoring Viagra.
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The introduction of female Viagra cannot possibly work this way because, unlike the male equivalent, the need for the product among women will be non-existent around the ages of 40-60 and powerful between 18-30. There is no way of linking this to female middle age or marriage age. Most women nowadays don’t get married at 20.
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I agree with Leah Jane – it is the only way I can imagine marketers positioning this type of pill. They need to associate it with something ‘warm and fuzzy’ (as most advertising targeted at women) & hope that the appropriate age demographic takes notice. I cannot see how they could directly target women in their early twenties and not get slaughtered in the media. Maybe in Europe, but certainly not in North America.
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Magazines like Cosmo and the likes will be the great place for such advertisement. Nobody has a problem with their very strong attempts to push sexuality to young women.
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The advertisement, however, is not problem this drug is facing. The real issue is that nobody wants to see it invented.
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But the purpose of this pill will be mainly for 18-30 years old women, not for older women.
And Honey BooBoo exists….
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Older women need a pill with the opposite effect. 🙂 🙂
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NOOOO! That’s why I like older women!
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I support female Viagra!
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Yay! But there was never any doubt you were a normal person.
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I actually went to try to get a libido booster last year, because my sex drive felt so low and was really depressing me. They told me to go to sex therapy, and I was absolutely shocked. This is america! At least give me a drug to go along with the therapy hahaha
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I wonder about trying Viagra itself. Maybe it is unissex and they are just not telling us?
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I sense similarity with the male birth control pill…
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Absolutely!
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I’m even more supportive of the male birth control pill.
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This would be a phenomenal product that is long overdue. And the reasons why it’s not on the market are deeply ideological.
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What about the masculine condom preceding the feminine condom?
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Of course, this is also a very ideological development. We can all see how female contraception changed the world. This is precisely why it came so late. There are still people who hate it and are terrified of it.
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What about the masculine condom preceding the feminine condom?
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Has anyone actually tried one of those feminine condoms? They look pretty unwieldy, but …
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Stoya apparently did. Unwieldy’s the word.
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Wouldn’t this invention make it *easier* for such patriarchal structures to perpetuate? The same women who debase themselves by marrying older creeps can now enjoy the same relationship, but now with added orgasms, thanks to a pill! Win win. So if you’re the kind of woman who would sell heterosexual sex in exchange for money and status, life just got easier for you.
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I highly doubt it would work in that situation. Or, does Viagra make it possible for you to enjoy sex with just anyone?
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Viagra makes it possible for one to achieve erection.Heterosexual male performers use it regularly to perform in ‘gay for pay’ scenes, so I know it can work even if you’re not too interested in the act.
Come to think of it, I’m not even sure what the female equivalent of Viagra would be.
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People who cannot get aroused at all are very rare. The main problem of all people with sexual dysfunction (male and female) is that the arousal is too weak and / or disappears before culmination. The drug, for both men and women, would make the blood rush to the genital area, creating an arousal of such strength that psychological problems do not manage to weaken it until the culmination is achieved.
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Problem is that blood rush to the genital area is an effect and not a cause of arousal. We can already do that with Viagra in both men and women, but it doesn’t create or maintain arousal – just erections.
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Hi Clarissa,
I do not think it is that simple, that if only some medication created effects counterbalancing psychological problems, then eternal happiness and orgasmic bliss would follow. (If that were true, it would be true for other psychopharmacological solutions as well, which is not the case.) In fact some psychologist believe that many people hide behind sexual problems to avoid dealing with various problems in their relationships. They claim sexual problems [with which no one but the skilled sex therapist can possibly deal, and there are no good sex therapists here, etc, etc, etc :)] to avoid dealing with other issues. Just a simple fictitious example: Suppose a husband constantly treats the wife in a disrespectful manner… She just does not like him enough any more to want to have sex with him. But she is afraid to confront him, so she claims some “desire disorder”… Now the possibility of a wonder drug enters the picture… And the couple in question is forced into very interesting dynamics, because a convenient excuse is removed… A remark: all of the above can be said in reverse, with man having sexual problems as excuse. And some therapists claim that the invention of Viagra played quite an interesting trick with these men. And I am not as optimistic as you about women at large being interested in this drug, while men trying to preserve status quo.
I also did not quite understand why orgasms exclude readiness to be bought. Suppose some wonder drug makes all women easily orgasmic. It is a drug that made them orgasmic, not their men and not the women themselves (via some sort of self-improvement). And both the woman and the man know that. Drug does not change anything in the psychology of the participants. One can even claim the opposite – that by removing the choice between being paid for and having orgasms, the drug will allow those who want to be bought to pursue their desires without any second thoughts… The drug will guarantee the orgasm anyway…
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The issue I’m talking about here is not relational. It is pre-relational, extra-relational. It is an issue that exists for many years with any number of partners in an unchanged form. Of course, it is a result of intense sexual problems that the patriarchal conditioning guarantees to most women in their early years and to most men in their later years. I maintain that the experience of a single orgasm is such a profound thing that it transforms an entire worldview of a woman, an entire scale of priorities. Just like the realization that there might be no more orgasms transforms the entire scale of priorities of so many men in their 50s.
Women who discover (normally, by complete accident) what an orgasm is change their lives profoundly to the complete shock of everybody else. (Just like men discover their gender-specific sexual truths in the 50s and change their lives as a response.) When I say that such women stop letting themselves be bought, I don’t talk about prostitution. Prostitutes don’t sell themselves. They sell sexual services. What I am talking about is something that I engaged in as well, simply because these simple physiological realities were unknown to me. That was accepting the ever-so-popular female fiction of a nice relationship with a good guy as an acceptable path in life simply because I had no idea that the alternative could bring anything positive.
This is precisely the problem: try explaining to somebody verbally why sex is worth sending the good guy with his nice relationship to hell in a basket and why the long and complex journey towards your full and happy sexuality is worth all the aggravation you will discover in the process. You are right, one has to resolve a million psychological problems in the process. But who would be motivated to face them when you have absolutely no idea what the reward even looks like?
I believe that glimpsing the reward once – even with the help of a drug – will be life-changing for many. There are so many very powerful reasons for women not to pursue sexual satisfaction and the most powerful reason to do so is so hard for many to find.
And the relationships can come much later, after this important developmental journey is completed.
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Hi Clarissa, I understand that the issue you are taking is not relational. But I think this is exactly the imperfection of your worldview. :). I do not believe in sexuality existing in vacuum, and being more easily accessed biochemically than relationally. Do not get me wrong, I am not advocating sacrificing oneself to a relationship with a “good” guy with bad sexual skills. I am just judging from my own experience as a male who does not have problem reaching orgasm. So I guess I can extrapolate a bit from that position. Once something is a given, other things do become important. Not instead of sex, but in addition to it. The criteria of good sex may change. Not to exclude orgasms, of course, but sincere enthusiasm for sex in general and for sex with a particular person become more important. And I do not see why, let’s say, a fear of losing partner whom one deeply likes and respects is a worse motivator than experiencing biochemically-induced orgasm, about which everyone knows that it is just biochemically induced.
Sure, the drug should be developed and be as easily available as Viagra. Just out of principle. But I would not count for the effects you expect. I’d rather expect a chorus of women lamenting that once again the progress gave us something that is more beneficial to men. (Giving men seemingly “better”, more validating sexual partners, without improving anything else.) How many women never experience orgasm (despite many having intermittent problems with it)? 10%? I am afraid that for most women it is not [not knowing what the orgasm is] that is the problem, it is clinging to certain patterns despite knowing perfectly well what the orgasm is.
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” do not believe in sexuality existing in vacuum, and being more easily accessed biochemically than relationally. Do not get me wrong, I am not advocating sacrificing oneself to a relationship with a “good” guy with bad sexual skills.”
– But the problem is precisely that a person who has no idea what an orgasm is does not even consider sexual compatibility as a factor in forming a relationship.
“Once something is a given, other things do become important.”
– We are talking about women for whom an orgasm is not a given and who believe that sexual desire means liking somebody as a person and finding a life with him comfortable. The number of such women is tragic.
“And I do not see why, let’s say, a fear of losing partner whom one deeply likes and respects is a worse motivator than experiencing biochemically-induced orgasm, about which everyone knows that it is just biochemically induced.”
– Partners are lost because an orgasm appears in the relationship, not vice versa. A relationship that was based on a woman’s anorgasmy will suffer as a result of the woman losing the anirgasmy. This is precisely the reason why so many women never explore their sexuality: they don’t want to lose convenient, comfortable partners.
” I’d rather expect a chorus of women lamenting that once again the progress gave us something that is more beneficial to men. (Giving men seemingly “better”, more validating sexual partners, without improving anything else.) ”
– The absolute majority of men in North America don’t want such partners. 🙂 They say they do, but the prospect is terrifying. Just look at the male hysteria that accompanies any discussion of liberated female sexuality. Remember this freaky guy on the radio who had a conniption when a young woman publicly declared she needed contraception to because she wanted to have sex? I hear he has an enormous audience. Just imagine what all those men will experience if their sad, hysterical, beaten-down wives discover that no money in the world can substitute the fun to be had out of a cute construction worker down the road. 🙂
“How many women never experience orgasm (despite many having intermittent problems with it)?”
– Intermittent problems are a male issue. I have never met a woman who experienced anything of the kind. This is precisely an issue men should pay attention to before they become Viagra customers.Men tend to drive themselves to partial anorgasmy (the intermittent problems you describe) by 35-40 and to a permanent kind later on because of adopting the patriarchal sexual standards (forcing oneself to perform when one doesn’t want to to prove one’s manliness).
“10%? I am afraid that for most women it is not [not knowing what the orgasm is] that is the problem, it is clinging to certain patterns despite knowing perfectly well what the orgasm is.”
– In the age group we are discussing, the number is overwhelmingly more than 10%. Of course, we are talking about the North American culture. (Latin American culture is just as bad in this respect but as for others, I have no idea.)
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It is also possible to achieve orgasm with someone you are not deeply, or not seriously attracted to — with someone with whom the sex is not really all that great.
I still say sex = #1, otherwise you might as well just be great friends, but to say that “good sex” = achieving orgasm with someone is setting the bar far too low.
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Of course, it’s better to be rich and healthy than even poor and sick, but we are talking about people who are yet to solve this basic problem. After they do that, they can move on to greater things.
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Clarissa, I do not know how what you are describing is even possible… 🙂 Relationships falling apart because orgasm occurs for the first time (and not because orgasm occurs for the first time with person other than the primary partner, i.e. as a result of an affair… see your construction worker example 🙂 )? Women not knowing what orgasm is until the age of 35? Not 20? OK, maybe 25… But 35?
I also venture a guess that all those men who appear uncomfortable with female sexuality are secretly wishing to experience it. As proven by wide spread of pornography. These men just cannot integrate the images of sexually enthusiastic women with the image of their personal wife. 🙂 That’s why they go seek uninhibited sexuality outside their primary relationship…
Or do you want to say I am taking what’s written in books and magazines too seriously?
By “intermittent problems” I meant women reaching orgasm only in a fraction of sexual encounters. Based on the books/articles/etc that I’ve read on these issues, I thought this is much more widespread problem than women not reaching orgasm at all.
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“Clarissa, I do not know how what you are describing is even possible… Relationships falling apart because orgasm occurs for the first time (and not because orgasm occurs for the first time with person other than the primary partner, i.e. as a result of an affair… see your construction worker example )? Women not knowing what orgasm is until the age of 35? Not 20? OK, maybe 25… But 35?”
– This is a very tragic reality for many people. I know a woman who discovered orgasm when she was past 50.
“I also venture a guess that all those men who appear uncomfortable with female sexuality are secretly wishing to experience it. As proven by wide spread of pornography. These men just cannot integrate the images of sexually enthusiastic women with the image of their personal wife.”
– These enthusiastic women in porn are faking. This is the dream of the men I discuss here: a woman who fakes enthusiasm, never questions anything, never expresses any demands, always accepting of everything. These women in porn are the epitome of anorgasmy.
“That’s why they go seek uninhibited sexuality outside their primary relationship…”
– That’s a myth. 🙂 🙂 In North America, at least.
“By “intermittent problems” I meant women reaching orgasm only in a fraction of sexual encounters.”
– I can only repeat that I cannot remember a single discussion with actual women about anything of the kind. Tragically, the female sexuality is often discussed as if it were an exact double of male sexuality. Hence, the insistence on intermittence as a problem that is central to women, even though it only plagues men.
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—- These enthusiastic women in porn are faking. This is the dream of the men I discuss here: a woman who fakes enthusiasm, never questions anything, never expresses any demands, always accepting of everything.
Yes they likely are. But the question is – what are all the meanings of what they are faking? According to my understanding of patriarchy (apparently too enlightened), women serve to validate men by being financially dependent on them in socioeconomic realm. In the sexual realm, women serve to validate men by being easily pleased, and genuinely eager for sex, which demonstrates how good lovers their men are. I do not see how woman actually having orgasm is against this patriarchal validation idea…
I agree about many men having fears of being compared with other men. But again, this problem may be solved by woman being virgin before and then being orgasmic. 🙂 🙂
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” According to my understanding of patriarchy (apparently too enlightened), women serve to validate men by being financially dependent on them in socioeconomic realm. In the sexual realm, women serve to validate men by being easily pleased, and genuinely eager for sex, which demonstrates how good lovers their men are. I do not see how woman actually having orgasm is against this patriarchal validation idea…”
– Honestly, I have never in my life heard anything of the kind. I also never managed to understand what “validate” means in the context of validating people. This is way too American for me. 🙂 Or, as you say, way too enlightened. 🙂 The reason why women remain financially dependent in patriarchal structures is because this is the biggest payoff patriarchy gives to women.
“But again, this problem may be solved by woman being virgin before and then being orgasmic. ”
– Yes, this totally happens a lot. 🙂 🙂
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Well, Viagra hasn’t awakened any interest in men to sell themselves to older creeps. 🙂
Jokes aside, all of these sad women who pontificate during girls’ nights out about how sex is not the most important thing and that all that matters in a relationship is good communication and “a connection”, all they need to have their lives transformed is just to discover what their bodies are capable of once. Just a single time nature has to break through all of these ideas about how sexual gratification can easily be sacrificed for the sake of a good guy who “makes you laugh.” The women who make this bargain are simply unaware what the price they are paying is. And once they do, they will have better things to hunt for than relationships and boyfriends. 🙂
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Jokes aside, all of these sad women who pontificate during girls’ nights out about how sex is not the most important thing and that all that matters in a relationship is good communication and “a connection”, all they need to have their lives transformed is just to discover what their bodies are capable of once. Just a single time nature has to break through all of these ideas about how sexual gratification can easily be sacrificed for the sake of a good guy who “makes you laugh.” The women who make this bargain are simply unaware what the price they are paying is. And once they do, they will have better things to hunt for than relationships and boyfriends.
I know a lot of men who try to convince women of this. But many, many women seem to feel this way. It is almost as though our culture is moving towards being one of those that Margaret Meade talked about who do not employ the female orgasm at all.
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I agree, many women. I have heard this so often from huge numbers of women.
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Bloody hell, I enjoy guys who “make me laugh” because it means they read me well, which increases the chances that they’ll read me well in bed and will therefore be able to sexually please me. But the idea of becoming monogamous with a man that “makes you laugh” yet is sexually incompatible with you is ridiculous. This is what friends are for, dammit. Or do they buy that ridiculous myth about across-gender friendships being impossible?
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David Bellamy,
—I know a lot of men who try to convince women of this. But many, many women seem to feel this way.
what is your take on this statement – are these men saying it because they truly think connection is more important, and that the women should believe that connection is more important, or are these men saying these things because they are taught that this is what women want to hear? It may be not a simple cause and effect relation, it may be more of a cyclic thing, with both sides reinforcing each other’s …non-optimal 🙂 positions…
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valter07, SB and more people on other site mention women selling themselves in connection to this drug. But isn’t rising it as a serious problem problematic too? Doesn’t it uphold a sexist worldview? As if only women sell themselves, as if huge numbers of women sell themselves because of female nature (otherwise, why would they do so in our Western modern world of gender equality?) , and as if a woman potentially selling herself is more worthy of consideration than
a woman who doesn’t and would be helped by the drug. It reminds of purity culture sentiments in a way: we must prevent women deciding to sell themselves (why?) and so it’s important to prevent the drug from falling into heir hands.
woman, who has
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El, I find your response (starting with my nickname) a bit misaddressed. This relationships for sex / for money dichotomy was introduced by person other me (hint, hint 🙂 ). I am not sure this is statistically important choice anyway, even without the wonder drug. 🙂 And I believe in psychological problems being primary source of all problems, sexual or those which make some persons of both genders staying in dissatisfying relationships for material benefits only. I do not think those sexual wonder drugs (real Viagra and hypothetical female wonder drug) are really fundamentally different from all other drugs removing symptoms of psychological problems without addressing the causes. And then new symptoms must emerge to satisfy the same core causes…
But I am responding to person who introduced the dichotomy… 🙂 In a reductio ad absurdum style…
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Correction: “Person other than me”
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I didn’t mean that you or SB took the approach of “ban the drug, lest women begin to sell themselves”. But many people did say exactly that on another site, f.e. how pimps will force prostitutes to take it and so on.
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For instance, a woman who is familiar with the concept of an orgasm cannot be bought.
Not sure how true that is. But I agree that it’s a fear of these men. They might have to work at being appealing!
You’d see a lot less overweight people on drugs if women were allowed free or freer run of their libido. SSRIs kill libido. They also reliably induce weight gain. And really what is more ridiculous than moaning over some fat free chocolate? Seriously.
I have no way of measuring this of course. But every dude I’ve been with has either been terrified (seriously the first dude I kissed was terrified that I’d want too much and induce him into Teh Sex; and I was all of 18) or unable to keep up. And I’m hardly dating at all.
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Interesting article on the interaction between biological and cultural factors in PMS.
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The article seems to suggest that Western women work more than non-Western women. Honestly, I find this position to be quite shocking. But I do see a definite connection between this opinion and the PMS its holder suffers from.
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The line to which I think you’re referring is “Western women live in a culture that promotes overwork”. Could it not be rather that Western women tend to make more busywork for them than non-Western women? I mean, it’s perfectly acceptable for a Romanian woman to kick her feet on the coffee table and pour herself a drink if she’s finished the work for the day. Seems to me that an American woman would feel guilty to do such,and would find some more stuff to do that she’d conceptualize as “work”. For example, interacting with her children, or sports (I follow the writer on Twitter and she seems to enjoy the sport she practices immensely) – things that a non-Western woman would conceptualize as “relaxation” and derive psychic regeneration from. So, even if they put less effort in a day, they conceptualize everything they do as “work”, thus ensuring that even the lightest, most enjoyable activities drain their resources instead of replenishing them, so they need something apparently out of their control to allow them one week a month in which they don’t have to think of everything they do as “work” so they can relax so they don’t lose it completely.
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Well, what you say makes a lot of sense. Why didn’t the article’s author just say all this?
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Because she’s not far enough from her own culture to realise that half of the “work” she complains about wouldn’t actually be regarded as such by non-Western woman, I guess. Easier to see others than to see yourself and all that. Sometimes, I consider the fact that I grew up in a non-Western culture yet spent a lot of time on the Internet exposed to Western culture gives me superpowers.
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“Sometimes, I consider the fact that I grew up in a non-Western culture yet spent a lot of time on the Internet exposed to Western culture gives me superpowers.”
– I know what you mean! This position of somebody on the margins looking in on the center is very powerful and offers many insights.
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// And I do not see why, let’s say, a fear of losing partner whom one deeply likes and respects is a worse motivator than experiencing biochemically-induced orgasm, about which everyone knows that it is just biochemically induced.
How is losing a partner connected? Losing a partner, if what? A motivator for what?
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Anonymous, I meant losing a partner because partner is unhappy about one’s lack of enthusiasm for sex. Respectively, conflicts with partner about lack of desire and enthusiasm (partner leaving is the more extreme possibility along those lines) may serve as motivation for one dealing with one’s sexual problems. I personally think it is better motivation than completely artificial biochemically created experience of unusual arousal leading to orgasm.
With respect to your second message – reaching orgasm through vaginal stimulation alone is a separate issue. The discussion so far was about complete lack of orgasm. If a woman can reach orgasm using toys, hands or tongue – she is capable of reaching orgasm, and therefore does not need wonder drug just to experience orgasm for the first time.
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“Anonymous, I meant losing a partner because partner is unhappy about one’s lack of enthusiasm for sex.”
– In North America?? You are not serious.
“Respectively, conflicts with partner about lack of desire and enthusiasm (partner leaving is the more extreme possibility along those lines) may serve as motivation for one dealing with one’s sexual problems.’
– This scenario sounds completely unrealistic. If a relationship has been formed and has existed for a while on the basis of one of the partners’ anorgasmy, why would it suddenly collapse as a result of what was so crucial to make it exist?
“I personally think it is better motivation than completely artificial biochemically created experience of unusual arousal leading to orgasm.”
– For a relationships built as a result of anorgasmy, the result of one person’s discovery of the orgasm will be the end of the relationship. It is like a blind person who recovers vision or a housewife who suddenly becomes successful professionally and financially. Other examples include immigration and the FSU in the 1990s. When the basis for a relationship disappears and the roles change completely, people tend to separate.
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Clarissa, I just do not understand this concept of “relationship being based on anorgasmy”. I can understand very well that people may pair off based on reasons other than sexual compatibility, just because they like each other, think of each other as good persons and otherwise feel good about being validated by the partner. But I thought they still treat anorgasmy as a problem that will hopefully be resolved (spontaneously, just with experience, or because of “feeling more secure” (I personally do not buy the latter, but many people do), or as a result of therapy, or what not).
Anyway, I do believe that relationships can be evolving, and that discovering that what originally brought the people together is not working any more is an inevitable stage of any relationship, and something to work on together, not necessarily the reason to immediately split up and go look for a better fit. Seems you are not trusting enough in people’s ability to solve problems within a relationship.
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“Clarissa, I just do not understand this concept of “relationship being based on anorgasmy”.”
– I’m happy for you. 🙂 Such relationships abound, however. A man who is not very interested in sex and is definitely not interested in satisfying a partner or making the effort will only be attracted to anorgasmic women. So will a man who is afraid of female sexuality. So will a man who is terrified of the need to compete with other men / women on sexual terrain. So will every one of those men who insist in panucky voices that women don’t care about male looks, just their financial and social status.
“Seems you are not trusting enough in people’s ability to solve problems within a relationship.”
– Once again, I’m not talking about relationships. I’m talking about a problem that many women have that is in no way linked to any relationship. It is a problem that exists in itself and is experienced by people who never have any relationships at all. It’s like allergy, diabetes, blood pressure. It exists whether one has 500 relationships or none. And by the way, this problem’s root is precisely the idea that women’s sexuality is relational and does not exist outside the need to service relationships. I’m still to encounter a situation when I would mention female sexuality and would not hear “But relationships. . .” in response.
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There are two different issues.
1. People not knowing enough about sex / themselves. If they are with the right person then yes, this can be solved within a relationship.
2. People not being satisfied sexually with the person they are with because in fact the attraction is social and not sexual, and they do not know enough about sex to realize this. They expect to “work on it” to “make it work” and expect sexual satisfaction to be a result of friendship … when this makes no sense at all. Then, yes, finally having sex with someone they are interested in for sexual reasons will rock their world and probably destroy their friendly relationship — although the person they had the wild sex with may not necessarily be their best match forever, either.
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“People not being satisfied sexually with the person they are with because in fact the attraction is social and not sexual, and they do not know enough about sex to realize this. They expect to “work on it” to “make it work” and expect sexual satisfaction to be a result of friendship … when this makes no sense at all. Then, yes, finally having sex with someone they are interested in for sexual reasons will rock their world and probably destroy their friendly relationship — although the person they had the wild sex with may not necessarily be their best match forever, either.”
– This is exactly what I’m talking about. Women always know what I mean when I talk about this. 🙂
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If something is mostly culturally or psychologically determined (OK, I can avoid the use of word relationships if it distracts from my point 🙂 ), it is not correct to compare it with diabetes and high blood pressure and treat it with drugs. This is as useful as treating “the problem with no name” ((c) Beauvoir ? ) with antidepressants.
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“If something is mostly culturally or psychologically determined (OK, I can avoid the use of word relationships if it distracts from my point ), it is not correct to compare it with diabetes and high blood pressure and treat it with drugs. ”
– High blood pressure is also psychologically determined and it is also not a good idea to treat it with drugs. But a one-time use of medication just to discover that there is a problem and it has to be addressed is not a bad idea at all. Do you know how many women I have met who had convinced themselves they had orgasms when in reality they had no idea what it even was?
In a very similar way, I had no idea that I lived for years with constantly elevated BP because the state was so normal to me. As a result, it never occurred to me to attribute the many symptoms I was having to blood pressure.
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// How many women never experience orgasm (despite many having intermittent problems with it)? 10%?
Forgot to mention: I think it’s much, much more than 10%, especially in under 30-35 crowd, which is exactly when women marry men, who don’t give them the experience or even can’t ever give.
“About 75 percent of all women never reach orgasm from intercourse alone — that is without the extra help of sex toys, hands or tongue. And 10 to 15 percent never climax under any circumstances.”
http://abcnews.go.com/Health/ReproductiveHealth/sex-study-female-orgasm-eludes-majority-women/story?id=8485289#.UatLrKLWONA
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Valter: I do not see how woman actually having orgasm is against this patriarchal validation idea…
Yes, patriarchal men do want this for the reasons you suggest.
But I would say that this is where all the therapy, sex aids, etc., come in. People think that with these things they will be able to place pleasure where it most serves the status quo. The problem is that that is not necessarily how things work.
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Z, Thank you, for formulating it beautifully
This is exactly what I meant when I said I’d expect women to be opposed to the wonder drug even more than men will be – because for them it will be another sex aid aimed at placing pleasure where it serves the status quo.
I suspect in many cases sexual problems, and anorgasmy in particular, occur because this is, consciously or subconsciously, a way for women to protest against the need to serve men in bed by validating them as great lovers. (And male sexual problems may correspondingly be a more or less subconscious way to protest or take revenge about something that is dissatisfying for men, but that they cannot address, because they are not aware enough or just too afraid.)
I also suspect that this phenomenon is much more widespread than men being so afraid of female sexuality that even the validation aspect could not compensate for being afraid.
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I agree.
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The kind of woman who is the most perfectly adapted to offer this sort of “validation” is the one who is frigid as a door-knob because she says, ‘Oh yes, this is perfect” to absolutely everything just to get the unpleasant process over with as soon as possible.
And every even marginally sexually healthy woman has heard men say, “Really?? All of my previous girlfriends said they loved this. Are you sure you don’t have a problem?” to any suggestion or request in bed. Such men have become proverbial but they share responsibility for their sexual ineptness with all those anorgasmic girlfriends who have been telling them everything is perfect just to get it over with.
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Well, if the men rely solely on what their girlfriends SAY, and are completely clueless about other cues, then there is really no point in blaming the results on girlfriends, however anorgasmic they may be… If one sees and hears only what one sees and hears, regardless of reality, it is his problem.
And, speaking of the benefits of patriarchy for women – the license to be irresponsible in some aspects of life – I agree with you. But on the other hand, this thing is called patriarchy for a reason. No social phenomenon can survive under patriarchy if it does not benefit men as well. The benefit of female dependency for men is that it makes them feel indispensable. which does not exclude benefits for [not the best there is in] women.
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Yes, I agree that these are men who are willfully deaf and blind. So how can a liberated female sexuality benefit this kind of men whose name is legion? They are massively happy as it is.
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I know plenty of women who have taken Viagra and it has the same effect it has on men.
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I’m late to the discussion, but would like to clarify that Viagra does not increase libido. Libido is a function of sexual desire, which, in our species, is a combination of psychological drive and physiological drive. Viagra is a drug that increases blood flow, making it easier to sustain penile and clitoral erections (hence, works both for men and women), which is a physiological function secondary to an already existing libido.
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