There is also a metaphysical reason why Germany is doing so well. This is the only country that is dedicated to making at least some kind of reparations for the damage it caused with its totalitarian past. Germans have taken a responsibility for the crimes of their progenitors and are expiating their collective guilt. The result can only be a healthier society that, of course, produces more.
Germans have sought out everybody whose labor was exploited by the Third Reich and is paying out reparations. Back in Ukraine, an illiterate Baba Motya whose apartment was across the landing from ours started receiving cheques from Germany back in 1990s. She had been forced to go to Germany to work on a farm for no pay during the WWII, and now Germans were trying to pay her for that work.
In the meanwhile, it took Spain forever to grant citizenship to the members of the International Brigades who had defended democracy in Spain in 1936-9. It isn’t like the country is so overpopulated that there won’t be any room for the few surviving brigadists (who are probably not planning to move in anyways). But even making this inexpensive gesture of recognition took a lot of effort.
And in my part of the world nobody is getting compensated or recognized in any form whatsoever.
This is why hopes are high for Germany’s future, not too low for Spain’s, and non-existent for us.
Clarissa's Blog 
There is a lot to this. By coming to terms with the Nazi past the Germans are able to move forward in a way Russia is not.
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I wonder if collective guilt acknowledges the projective identification, which is behind the persecution of minorities. The primitive notion, “we have an enemy within”, which can be identified and destroyed/cast out in order to purify and thus “save” the community tends to run beneath the level of conscious awareness. It afflicts communities that are very stressed and therefore inclined to adopt regressive modes of coping.
I think that whenever communities become very stressed they are in high danger of creating another scapegoat to purify themselves and try to change their bad luck into good luck.
Reparations are one thing, and I have no comment on those, although in some circumstances they would be a good idea. But I don’t think they get to the psychological roots.
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Seems to me like it’s precisely the projective identification these sort of reparations work on. The enemy within was not actually an enemy and the monsters were ourselves, and so on.
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oh, ok, but the minute you make it all about one group, another group has already become victim and then another. Hard to keep up. I do think that collective guilt has actually worked to CAUSE more stress and thus MORE projective identification in much of the Western world. I point this out, but because I am considered one of the evil ones, I may as well be speaking to the air. Paranoia increases with guilt and insight deteriorates.
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Hmm, you do have a point there. I’ve certainly seen that happen in social justice circles.
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Found that today:
I can get where people are coming from who say that Jews “whine” too much about the holocaust to this date. […]
We, as in us Germans, are still expected to pay (with money) for what happened 60 years ago – a time where most of the people paying for it today (with our taxes) weren’t even born.
None of the other groups who were killed in the holocaust expect the German government to pay them money for the horrible things that happened back then.
So yes, I can definitely see where this is coming from (and I think it’s ridiculous that we still pay for something that happened 6 decades ago).
But why did people go along with it? Surely not because they felt fine and everything was dandy.
But because, like someone further down also pointed out, other nations were thought it’s fun to crush Germany after WWI. It’s very easy to take a nation on its knees and make them accept horrible things with the promise of a better future.
The sad thing is, that things like these are slowly happening now in Germany again. In Eastern Germany, there are a lot of young people with no future. They already know that after they finish school, they won’t be able to find work. They come from poor families. The government? Doesn’t care. The nazi parties? Organise things for the youth.
The sad thing is, that the politicians don’t seem to realise what’s happening. They don’t offer anything in return.
This is what needs to be addressed over here, not how much more money we can pay when a lot of people don’t have any for themselves. Or else I really see history repeating itself in 50 years down the line, if it takes that long.
http://a2zmom.livejournal.com/203685.html?page=2
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This person is mistaken because the reparations are paid not only to Jews.
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On a different, friends-only LJ post, I have seen a report on a study how teenagers in France and Germany react with violence and denial, when their history teachers attempt to teach Holocaust. I am sure it also happens in other countries. Interesting whether Holocaust is taught at all as a separate event in FSU.
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I just read the other day – and I should have saved the link but didn’t – that in Russia there is a very strong tendency towards not teaching the Holocaust as a genocide against Jews specifically. The approach is that the Nazis were equally hateful towards everybody. This is the official reading if history.
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// in Russia there is a very strong tendency towards not teaching the Holocaust as a genocide against Jews specifically
That’s what I thought. 😦 I am for honoring *all* victims, but the Jews’ position is hidden on purpose here.
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I should have kept the link. It was worded in a very shocking manner, saying something like, it is a mistake to make this about Jews. As if this hadn’t been made about Jews long before we were all born.
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Below this comment is an interesting part of discussion:
http://a2zmom.livejournal.com/203685.html?thread=4096933#t4096933
QUOTE
For example, it’s not only holocaust victims who’re old and live in poverty. There are more than enough Germans who live in poverty too, old and young, and who were affected (or ist effected?) by WW2 as well (obv. only the old in that case *G*).
My grandfather lost his home when the Russians drove the Germans out of Danzig. He was just a child then. He resents the Russians for it, but do I? No, because those that live there now, are not the ones who did it (okay so there are other things wrong with the Russian government nowadays but that’s not a part of this debate *G*).
[…]
I think the idea of reparations is problematic as well, because of what was pointed out here: No amount of money can make up for the loss of lives. It can’t forgive anything, and it won’t. And like you pointed out, after a while, it can turn into the opposite: The rise of things like Nazism. Now, I’m sensible enough to know who to vote for and who not. I don’t resent the Jews or any other nationality – to the contrary. But others aren’t. We already have nazi-parties in the Landtag of two states. And this is something I’m ashamed of. I’m ashamed that parties like these are still allowed to exist – free speech or not, I believe that parties who promote ideas and ideologies like these should not be allowed to exist. But that people vote for them is even worse.
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These reparations are crucially important to Germany. They are not about Israel or Jews or Ukrainians they are compensating for using their forced labor. This is what they need to be doing to avoid going in the direction where Russia and Ukraine and Spain are today. If they choose to stop apologizing and making amends, they will see their standard of living plummet. It’s their funeral, what do I care?
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// If they choose to stop apologizing and making amends, they will see their standard of living plummet
Aren’t you viewing the world in a mythical / religious way here? This German woman says they already have plenty of young people without future, who turn to extreme ideas (interesting to know the % of immigrants among them). What if the end of reparations, after the last survivor dies (very soon), and the plummeting, which is already in the making, simply coincide?
Besides, this woman says it’s the government that pays and many people would be against it.
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If she thinks in her country youth has no future, she should visit Russia or Spain.
I’m simply observing how countries fare after experiencing a totalitarian regime. The stronger is the effort to distance oneself from the past, the more miserable the country will be.
The threat of fascism right now doesn’t come from Germany. It comes from Russia, a country that erased its past.
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Clarissa, I hope you don’t say “this quoted German woman is a vile person, who should be ignored” since I am sure there are many (I would bet on most) Germans, who think this way. I would love to hear your opinion on the continuation of reparations. Do they (only and automatically) stop, when the last survivor dies? What about franzi’s point of “it can turn into the opposite”? It could go together with the post you promised on Austria. 🙂 Looks like also in Germany the things aren’t as rosy as one could think from your post.
“Below this comment is an interesting part of discussion” — I gave the wrong link. The discussion begins under his next comment.
roga is an Israeli, and, below his comment, his discussion with franzi1981 was interesting to me. Here is the correct link:
http://a2zmom.livejournal.com/203685.html?thread=4097189#t4097189
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// It was worded in a very shocking manner, saying something like, it is a mistake to make this about Jews
It’s not shocking to me at all.
I can bet Polish students also get this version of history. When Israeli students from a school I know went for an educational (about Holocaust) trip to Poland a few years ago, they were shocked by Polish children-teens (?) shouting slurs at them on the street.
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LAST COMMENT ON IT (wanted to quote yesterday, but lost it – would love to hear your thoughts – what she says has a grain of truth in it, imo)
What is worth debating and questioning is whether reparations directly to the victims and their families is the right way to go about seeking amends. Maybe spending some of that money on education problems to open up discussion in Germany of the subject might be more beneficial in the long run, less likely to incur further resentment towards victims who refuse, even now, to shut up and forget about it.
Maybe if the German government had put some money towards a version of a Truth and Reconciliation committee for the communities or a Facing History and Ourselves program for the schools, there wouldn’t be so much current tension between Good German Citizens and Those Nasty Muslims Immigrants.
“and I think it’s ridiculous that we still pay for something that happened 6 decades ago”
To a limited degree, I think you right. It’s ridiculous that the German government–and let’s be honest here, the German government is the official face and voice of the German people–has been paying lip-service through money, and as far as I can see only lip-service through money for a horrible manifestation of underlying problems such as prejudice, discrimination, etc. that haven’t gone away. Please consider for a moment the significance of the fact that the Holocaust is still considered the benchmark for evil that people can do to each other. Then consider that ‘never again’ has yet to take root.
You should only stop paying money if you and your government make it clear that in the memory of the Holocaust you’re finally investing in addressing the problems that gave rise to the Holocaust in the first place.
You’re not alone. For goodness sake, your country is not alone in its wrong-doings–but that doesn’t excuse any of you one iota.
http://a2zmom.livejournal.com/203685.html?thread=4828325&style=mine#t4828325
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The whole argument that people get nasty and xenophobic because of the reparations is very disingenuous. Such sentiments cannot be provoked or caused by the victims. The sentiments pre-date the victims.
This is just an attempt to rationalize one’s hatred by expressing it in socially acceptable terms. This is the most insidious kind of xenophobia (or racism or sexism). It poses as being motivated solely by concern for victims themselves.
“It’s your fault I hit you. You shouldn’t have provoked me,” is the oldest line of all abusers in the world.
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Take Spain. The entire Civil War was drowned in anti-Jewish rants even though there hadn’t been any Jews in the country for centuries and obvioulsy nobody was paying any reparations.
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// The entire Civil War was drowned in anti-Jewish rants even though there hadn’t been any Jews in the country for centuries
What?! I wonder what would it take to make this mythical “Jew” disappear. For all our people to die out? Never visit Spain for literally a thousand years?
Btw, have you seen that short story about Spain, Jews and memory I linked before?
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I meant Henry Roth’s “The Surveyor”
http://www.newyorker.com/archive/1966/08/06/1966_08_06_022_TNY_CARDS_000282572
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German jurist from the city of Wuppertal… the judge convicted two German-Palestinian men of attempted serious arson against a synagogue in the city, along with a juvenile accomplice. But in his ruling, the wise man of the law declared that the crime was motivated not by anti-Semitism, but instead by a desire to “bring attention to the Gaza conflict.”
The torching occurred on July 29, in the midst of Israel’s Operation Protective Edge, a 50-day armed conflict waged in response to Hamas rocket attacks. A few days before the firebombing, “Free Palestine” had been scrawled on the synagogue walls.
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/02/09/german-court-rules-synagogue-firebombing-an-act-of-protest.html
Meanwhile,
the University of Southampton in Britain will be hosting a conference in April on the very legitimacy of the State of Israel.
“This conference will be the first of its kind and constitutes a ground-breaking historical event,” says the invitation, as it “concerns the legitimacy in International Law of the Jewish state of Israel.”
The invitation makes it clear that the conference this time will not be dealing with Israel’s actions, but “will focus on exploring themes of Legitimacy, Responsibility and Exceptionalism; all of which are posed by Israel’s very nature.”
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4631775,00.html
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Germany criticised for forming antisemitism commission without Jews
New commission, created in wake of increase in antisemitic incidents in Germany, does not include a single Jewish person
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/feb/10/germany-anti-semitism-commission-no-jews
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Suddenly saw a dissertation on Israeli and Palestinian National Narratives, written by a formerly-Orthodox (pro-Palestinian) American Jew who lived both in Israel and in Ramallah. Seems interesting:
https://books.google.co.il/books?id=KwwUYjgqLbMC&printsec=frontcover&hl=iw#v=onepage&q&f=false
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I posted the previous link to the dissertation here by accident. Thought it was “links” post.
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