So what do you think about the whole Clivern Bundy debacle?
I’m Ukrainian, so I find it hard to condemn somebody who protected his cows and refused to let them be taken away. Governments come and go while cows are forever.
In the light of recent developments on the world arena, I also don’t feel too good about the federal authorities that say, “One more step and we’ll shoot / impose scary sanctions” and immediately follow this with, “Nah, never mind. But next time we’ll definitely make you pay!”
I’m also wondering why everybody is suddenly fixating on these cows when much more important stuff is going on in the world. Mind you, I have no conservative sites in my blog roll, so you can’t say it’s just the Republicans who are obsessed with this. I don’t think I’m ready for one more article saying, “If you don’t hate Clivern Bundy, you are a racist”, so I have to turn off my newsfeed for the day.
Clarissa's Blog 
It’s not just about the cows, or for that matter desert tortoises.
Of far more importance, it’s about the sovereignty of foreign nations abroad, individual freedoms in the U.S. vs. crony “capitalism” and a massive Federal bureaucracy that disregards politically inconvenient laws and regulations while forcing others to obey those laws and regulations which it favors. Please see also this article.
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Dan: the second link doesn’t work.
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Thanks and sorry about that. Please let me try again
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“I suggest Cliven Bundy is far more endangered than is the desert tortoise, and that his kind will be gone shortly in a way the federally protected tarantula and Gila monster or delta smelt will not. . . Mr. Bundy is no Rahm Emanuel, Al Gore, or Jay Carney. He is no Jay-Z or Sean Penn. He is a world away from the Kardashians and the BMW meets Mercedes crowd of the California coastal corridor or the psychodramas of brats at Dartmouth. ”
– This is actually the best thing I have read about the whole issue. Now the situation is clear to me, and this is precisely what I’ve been saying recently in the post on the advent of modernity. This is a way of life that is becoming extinct and the violent outburst of those who feel alienated from the changes is understandable. Trying to pretend that this isn’t so and Bundy is just some greedy cowboy is a mistake.
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I agree a lot, but, Guys, this wasn’t an attempt to collect any fees, but a ruse by obamas power with “HIS” government to see what would happen if he started to take our freedoms from us. This is the exact way Hitler started…..think about it, or learn about it, then think about it. It is also the same game Putin is playing in the Ukraine at the moment. It goes back to the bully in the schoolyard situation that most of us went through when younger.
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Richard, have you heard of the following cases?
Why is nobody caring about them, instead of focusing only on Bundy?
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Well my blog is out and out reactionary. That is beyond conservative. 😎
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Right, I forgot, you’re the resident reactionary. 🙂
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Let’s see.
Steal the use of federal land for your own cattle grazing purposes, rack up millions in rent and fines for doing so. Claim that the land actually belongs to the state of Nevada instead of the federal government, (as it somehow it would be less wrong to do what he’s doing).
Nevermind that the title to the land clearly states US government and both the US government and the state of Nevada have come out and said, look, this is federal land.
Claim government tyranny, get a right-wing militia to show up to fight this horrible government injustice.
Reminder, the people who’re unironically complaining about Federal tyranny are POINTING GUNS AT FEDERAL AGENTS:
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If it’s true that, as I just read, he was being told to reduce his cattle of 1,000 to under 150, I can understand his annoyance. In his place, would you just do it?
And the whole part about the turtles – if it’s true, which I’m not sure is – is just bizarre. Can anybody in the world expect a cattle farmer to get rid of 800 heads of cattle to protect an endangered turtle? He feels like his whole lifestyle is slipping away and then the authorities come at him with the turtle argument?
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Do you really believe in the sovereign individual and the romance of the old west? That whole thing was dead 100 years ago.
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“Do you really believe in the sovereign individual and the romance of the old west? ”
– It’s Clivern Bundy who sees his way of life disappearing, not me.
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The mainstream media is far too uninformative about what the issues (and media with lots more info are not noted for pristine accuracy) are but I don’t think the federal government taking over more land is a good idea on general principles.
What I can gather about the government’s actions is that they’re pretty crummy and suspect and not necessarily following their own laws. But that’s a general impression.
While I cant’ vouch for the accuracy of this version, it’s is all too believable.
http://danaloeschradio.com/the-real-story-of-the-bundy-ranch/
“One more step and we’ll shoot / impose scary sanctions” and immediately follow this with, “Nah, never mind. But next time we’ll definitely make you pay!”
I appreciate that position, but if, as seems very likely, this is a politically motivated land grab then backing down when faced with the will of the people is the proper response (minus the ‘you just wait till next time’ nonsense).
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I don’t think the federal forces should have shot at the people, of course. I’m suggesting they shouldn’t have made threats since they knew they wouldn’t follow through on them.
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Seriously, at this point, I automatically tune out anyone who uses the word ‘tyranny’ unironically. I feel so sorry for their stupidity, I actually cringe.
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From what I can tell, he’s just another dipshit who doesn’t want to pay his taxes. No more or less interesting or tragic than the whackjobs here who’ve fallen for the freemen-of-this-land malarkey.
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“He feels like his whole lifestyle is slipping away and then the authorities come at him with the turtle argument?”
A lifestyle of stealing land and not paying taxes, yes.
Funny post from a message board I frequent:
“I think it’s important to remind the right wing and the libertarian right that when they decry the vast government overreach — my libertarian sympathies can find a lot to nod along with — but when this clown and his band of merry gun-totters become the archetype of people under the jackboot of the feds, you do start to wonder if the whole movement isn’t just thinly veiled old white guy porn. I really can’t find a less sympathetic cast of characters than this rancher and the half-wits arming themselves for war with the BLM in the grand play of Feds Versus AMERICA. Part of me thinks the libertarians yet again are just need of like semi-competent PR people to stop them from making this crew and the Paul family their Pied Pipers but it will come as no surprise that the cynic in me just wonders if the whole movement isn’t really just thinly veiled old white porn when people and situations like these are the perpetual standard-bearers. Like I bet cops shot a dozen unarmed black people and droned an Afghan wedding, probably just yesterday. But it’s all RANCHERS, WHITE PEOPLE, BLACK PRESIDENT, AMERICA’S DUSTBIN, STATES RIGHTS, GUNS, AGENCIES KNOWN BY ACRONYMS. “
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\\ Can anybody in the world expect a cattle farmer to get rid of 800 heads of cattle to protect an endangered turtle? He feels like his whole lifestyle is slipping away and then the authorities come at him with the turtle argument?
I wanted to ask you in general: do you agree that those turtles are more important to us than his cattle? It’s not like cattle isn’t raised in factories more effectively than by letting them graze. I think it is important to preserve animal and plant species for future generations, and a shame to let species in “Red Book” die out. You expressed your pov about being vegetarian, but do you agree with preserving wild species as a value in itself? I do.
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The turtles don’t seem to be endangered (in any meaningful sense of the word). If they were, they wouldn’t euthanize several hundred of them…..
http://linkis.com/www.rawstory.com/rs/XROjg
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Wow, that’s a very Soviet speech. 🙂 The argument that what matters to the collective should supersede any private interests, let alone private property, is eerily familiar. 🙂
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Btw, today is Earth Day.
“Earth Day is an annual event, celebrated on April 22, on which events are held worldwide to demonstrate support for environmental protection.”
In this case, since the land isn’t his, he must get rid of his cattle w/o compensation. However, had the land been his, wouldn’t government have any way to protect endangered species, while naturally fully compensating the man? Theoretically, one can kill 10 species, if one has the land and is selfish enough to rob humanity of them forever. 😦
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Not Soviet only. Surely, even as sacred a right as a right to use private property as one sees fit, may sometimes be prevented. Soviet government wouldn’t compensate full extent of the damage, as I offered.
For instance, in Israel, Ariel Sharon removed Jewish settlers, which were formerly permitted to build houses there by Israeli government. They were compensated. Surely, removing people for nonexistent peace process is less important for future generations than protecting our planet’s natural resources. I feel like I must use economic language, “recourses”, to sound Ok. 😦
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The problem is that it’s easy to expect others to give up what matters to them to protect what matters to us. But what if it were the other way round? What are you prepared to give up to advance somebody else’s priorities.
I’m being asked to abandon books and switch to digital textbooks. That makes me angry, even though this move might (or might not) save trees. We all have something in the disappearing way of life that we’ll miss. Everybody has a stake here.
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// I’m being asked to abandon books and switch to digital textbooks
And this will extremely soon lead to this new great library, full of empty spaces for cooperative brainstorming. Paper books need renewing, and if nobody prints them any longer …
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“And this will extremely soon lead to this new great library, full of empty spaces for cooperative brainstorming.”
– Just so you know, you just gave me a panic attack with this image. 🙂
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This is a story which has gone through the youtube/twitter conspiracy theory hoohah. I have not seen a coherent non-ideological report on this yet available from Google. I would give it a few days and see if any competent reporter can produce an article.
From what I can gather, the guy is not paying his taxes, and is encroaching on public lands (ie, lands that belong to the ~250.000,000 of us, not just this one guy). So, his cows are being repossessed for failure to pay taxes and for trespassing. BFD. I just paid my taxes. I don’t trespass on public lands against the rules. I do my best to “leave no trace” for other campers and hikers on public parks. I don’t feel one ounce of sympathy for some guy who wants to grandstand. Sic his tax-paying, law-abiding neighbors on the freeloading guy.
There is no such thing as a sacred right to personal property, at least if one is in secular society. There is a social consensus. There is operation of power. Aren’t zoning laws contradicting an absolute right to personal property? Tell me you think it is within your neighbor’s right to start a hazardous waste dump next to your home, or to keep a pit bull breeding and dogfight “training” area in the yard next to yours (the dogs are trained to be vicious to everyone, and are starved to keep them aggressive).
For that matter, there is no such thing as an agreed-upon sacred right to one’s own person, if the person in question is female. A significant part of the society (~20% of the US population?) says that if you are pregnant and sick, well then, die, only the fetus counts – if you were raped, you deserved it – and so on.
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I’m trying to get people to look past their situational dislike for this specific unappealing guy and towards greater issues at stake. And I’m obviously failing utterly at this task.
Everybody has reaffirmed their identities and feels good that his or her identity is for now supported by the social consensus. If that’s the most we can do for now, that’s OK.
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There is a dearth of competent reporting on this guy, just a bunch of Tea Party websites.
Sorry: i am one of those people who prefer to exist somewhere in between the two beliefs that “All property is theft” and “All regulation of property is theft”.
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I had to Google Clivern Bundy to find out what this post was about, and the first thing that came up on Google was your blog. Talk about self-referential! So I’m assumiong that Clivern Bundy is a Ukrainian and Putin stole his cows. Am I right?
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I’m congenitally incapable of writing names correctly. He is Cliven, without an r.
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