I’ve been wondering, does anybody want to talk about the Eurovision? I know I have many European readers, and it seems wrong not to give them a chance to discuss something that means so much to them.
Do you like this year’s winner, Conchita? Was your country unfairly down voted? Would you want your country to win? Was there, in your opinion, an ideological statement implied in this year’s Eurovision?
Let’s discuss! Or if you believe Eurovision is trivial and there are more crucial things to discuss, you can start discussing them in this thread, too.
Clarissa's Blog 
After the show, a member of the IBA’s board, Yaakov Neve, said that he would issue a recommendation against participating in the competition in 2015. “There is something odd about failing to reach the finals four years running,” said Neve.
Foreign journalists and performers echoed that opinion and said that being denied a spot in the finals this year proves Israeli claims that their progression in the competition has been held up by political considerations.
If Israel was to retire, even temporarily, from the Eurovision, it would create an opportunity for Arab countries affiliated with the European broadcasting union to enter the competition – which they had avoided in previous years because of their refusal to compete with Israelis.
In recent years various European countries have called for the participation of the Palestinian Authority in the singing competition, despite the PA not being member of the European broadcasting union.
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4517879,00.html
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Russians are in a tizzy over Conchita Wurst’s victory.
This is a good yearly opportunity to ponder what is Europe and what the concept means.
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I think that even if Israeii singer has lost 100% because of anti-semitism (haven’t watched – can’t judge), ceasing to participate will be a mistake. May be, it’s the opposite way: the more antisemitic suspicions rise in our heads, the more we must insist on participating and showing ourselves as one nation among many. Seems insane to me that Israel is ready to spend on the infamous “hasbara” (or propaganda), but there are voices and real chance of taking ourselves from this competition (and bringing Arab countries in at the same time! (*) ). Such competitions work to create a “new state” of EU / world, (to some extent) defining in people’s minds “who belongs to Us”, without them being aware of the fact. Does Israel really want Europians to see Israel as “out” and PA as “in”? Insane.
(*) If Arab countries’ ideology prevents them from participating, so that not to “compete with Jews” – Israel must participate, imo. I am for them changing the approach and competing with us, but untill they change …
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“Does Israel really want Europians to see Israel as “out” and PA as “in”? Insane.”
– Europe is already far gone down the road towards PA and away from Israel. You know how they voted on recognizing Palestine. Look at how European demography is changing, too.
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// – Europe is already far gone down the road towards PA and away from Israel.
OK, but must we ourselves help them? I believe that millions of dollars invested in explaining our position will bring smaller dividends in minds of Europeans “on the street” than one good EU performance.
Israel must participate everywhere: Olympic games, song contests, chess tournaments, etc. If we ghettoize ourselves, 100% that the only things associated with Israel in people’s minds will be Middle East conflict and (often) Israel as the “bad side” in it.
// Look at how European demography is changing, too.
Do you mean Muslim immigration or something additional?
Anyway, sooner or later, Israel will have better relations with Muslim world than now. Even if not soon. Israel shouldn’t dismiss Muslims seeing us as a (slightly more) normal country for a moment either, even if they won’t vote for us.
– el
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” I believe that millions of dollars invested in explaining our position will bring smaller dividends in minds of Europeans “on the street” than one good EU performance.”
– The problem is, as we can see with Conchita Wurst, that people watch a performance but don’t see or hear it. They see and hear the voice of ideology speaking over the performance.
“Israel must participate everywhere: Olympic games, song contests, chess tournaments, etc. If we ghettoize ourselves, 100% that the only things associated with Israel in people’s minds will be Middle East conflict and (often) Israel as the “bad side” in it.”
– Of course.
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You have read it, but just in case:
Rebels in the Donetsk region of eastern Ukraine have claimed that 89 per cent of voters had cast ballots in favour of independence in a disputed referendum on Sunday, with 10 per cent against.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-05-12/ukraine27s-donetsk-region-votes-89pc-for-independence3a-rebels/5445564
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“Rebels in the Donetsk region of eastern Ukraine have claimed that 89 per cent of voters had cast ballots in favour of independence in a disputed referendum on Sunday, with 10 per cent against.”
– The scenario is exactly the same as in the Crimea: glass booths, no privacy during voting, armed people at the polls, people bringing in 10, 20, 120 ballots from God knows where, no lists of voters, etc. So now they can claim 1,000% of people voted.
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I couldn’t care less about eurovision, but I’m happy about the winner.
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And we should call that englishvision…
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I was thinking Anglovision since the American influence was far stronger than anything identifiably European.
I liked it better when performances were in national languages than in Eurocrap English, which works for face to face basic communication but which has no artistic soul.
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Yeah, Anglovision…only three of them sang in their native language…
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I’m a huge Eurovision fan, but as a guilty pleasure. I like misguided attempts to integrate folk traditions into the songs, bad choreography, ridiculous outfits etc. So I’m always up for Eurovision talk.
Overall, the finals (missed the prelims while I was in Turkey) had a pretty blah selection of songs. Nothing stood out as especially inspired or as a glorious trainwreck either. I probably liked the Dutch entry the best, but it sounded not very European and owed a little too much to ‘Every breath you take’ by which I mean, of course, it was a total rip-off of that song.
I think that Austria won for…. socio-sexuo-political reasons and not for the song (kind of anonymous) or the performance (workmanlike rather than inspired). And I don’t think it was very edgy at all. This is not the first drag act in Eurovision (I can think of a couple of others without trying) and a transexual won back in the 90’s.
Poland’s entry was the best it’s had in many years (and was 5th in televoting) but anything like traditional sexuality is a very hard sell to western European tastemakers now and it was marked way down by the national juries.
I’m of two minds about the booing of the Russian act. On the one hand these are 17 year olds, on the other hand they didn’t get to be in a position to be sent without having developed pretty tough skins. Also the song lyrics, about crossing a line to take take something are not appropriate either. On the other hand, the booing wasn’t about what Russia is doing in Ukraine but sexuopolitical ones.
Also, in honor of Ukraine, the previously highest placing drag performance at Eurovision which was second in 2007….
The winner that year was also a kind of drag performance
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“Also, in honor of Ukraine, the previously highest placing drag performance at Eurovision which was second in 2007….”
– Not of Ukraine, but of Russia. This is a very Russian fantasy about Ukraine.
“I think that Austria won for…. socio-sexuo-political reasons and not for the song (kind of anonymous) or the performance (workmanlike rather than inspired). And I don’t think it was very edgy at all.”
– That’s what everybody’s saying. I had a feeling this was, most of all, a gesture of, “Yes, Europe as a concept and an identity might be crumbling but we still have our gains, for instance, our sexual freedoms.”
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// “Yes, Europe as a concept and an identity might be crumbling … ”
Then what is left? You have written about post-national stage, but if the wide concept of Europe fails, what lies in the future?
– el
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At this point, the general disillusionment with the greater European identity is taking Europeans in the direction of breaking up into tiny nationalisms. Scotland and Catalonia are just the beginning. It’s a very stupid and self-defeating thing to do, but it’s what we have. My hope is that the Catalonian and Scottish projects fails so spectacularly that they act as a deterrent to everybody else.
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I remember when the ESC was a spectacle full of performers that would outragiously incorporate their folk traditions and national identity into a horrible pop song full of kitsch and quirkiness. Man, I loved that. 😀
Today most songs are so boring and so crappy that they can’t even stand on their own without the show.
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Australia generally has more interesting artistic ideas in it than Europe, especially so far as radio broadcasting is concerned.
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I don’t normally care about Eurovision, but I love Conchita Wurst because she pisses off conservatives, which is always a cause I can get behind.
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Seems thin gruel. Lots of western conservatives are big Putin fans because he pisses off liberals, which is always a cause they can get behind.
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One of the things that made me feel better about the amount of time that my teen was spending online a couple of years ago was discovering that–thanks to international online communities she’d found of fellow feminist/queer/nerdy teens–she not only knew that the Eurovision contest existed but she had strong feelings about some of the contestants. For a kid hunkered down in the US midwest, that’s huge.
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“It’s a very stupid and self-defeating thing to do, ”
Could you elaborate on that? I would’ve thought you’d be all over this. Why is it so important for these countries to subscribe to a greater ‘European identity’?
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Bit players don’t win in today’s world. Look at Ukraine, which is so much bigger and has so much more resources than little Catalonia.
Estonians managed to jump into the Eurotrain and Ukraine didn’t. Now Estonia is sitting there all protected, and Ukraine is left to die on the side of the road.
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” the general disillusionment with the greater European identity is taking Europeans in the direction of breaking up into tiny nationalisms”
I think there’s a couple of things going on. When times are good people don’t care as much about borders, when times get tougher (or the future more uncertain) people want to put up fences closer to home.
Also, the “European” identity pushed by those in a position to do so (especially the non-democratic technocrats in charge of the EU) is so unbearably phony and artificial that many people want nothing to do with it and withdraw from it in different directions toward something more organic and real or that at least seems to take their real, maybe unpretty but real, history into account.
Others look for higher levels of abstraction and fancy themselves ‘citizens of the world’ (or other hateful ideologies).
A lot of European ‘culture’ now (conchita included) reminds me of the “beautiful ones” in Calhoun’s mice studies. Solitary and sterile.
Essentially, I dont’ think Western Europe ever really got over the trauma of WWII and has lost all kinds of basic survival instincts and young western Europeans seem alienated from their own cultures. Ironically, the countries that were part of the Warsaw Pact (except for the CCCP countries themselves) seem to have done better in some ways (though they have lots of existential problems of their own).
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“I think there’s a couple of things going on. When times are good people don’t care as much about borders, when times get tougher (or the future more uncertain) people want to put up fences closer to home.”
– More specifically, this drive towards “sovereignty” is Catalonia’s and Scotland’s way of blaming somebody else for the economic crisis. It’s a feel-good tantrum that will cost them dearly in the long run. Curiously, it’s precisely what caused the crisis in the first place.
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As for Conchita, I understand that her act is supposed to be subversive but I fail to see where the subversion is and what is being subverted. A bearded woman was a staple of circus performance for centuries. And people gawked just like they do today. We are going back to some of the most historically offensive forms of entertainment and calling that progressive. I don’t get this at all.
And if somebody wants to argue that Eurovision possesses and confers the dignity that the circus of 150 years ago didn’t, that’s just silly. I can’t know about other countries, but Ukraine and Russia routinely send their most circusy performers to Eurovision. Remember Buranovskie Babushki? That shit wasn’t serious.
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“I understand that her act is supposed to be subversive but I fail to see where the subversion is and what is being subverted”
It’s the Obama model, she’s offering feel good emotions to the audience for appreciating her. When voting for a good song (as unlikely as that is likely to happen at Eurovision) the good feeling is transferred to the performer. When voting for an allied country (Cyprus awards 12 points to….. GREECE!) the good feeling goes to regional solidarity. When voting for the bearded lady the good feeling settles around the voter for being so wonderful and progressive. That can be very intoxicating.
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You think you are spot-on. And the funny thing is that when people went to a circus to gawk at a bearded lady 100 years ago, I’m sure they didn’t derive any “Wow, I’m so progressive” feelings out of it.
I tried to listen to Conchita’s song 3 times, and got bored and distracted every time. It’s not a bad song. It’s fine. But it’s neither memorable nor unique. And nobody is even claiming it was a kick-ass performance. I started this thread without expressing my feelings about the performance. If I saw people say, “Wow, she’s so talented,” I’d be happy to accept that my music taste is undeveloped and she is a great singer.
But neither here not in any if the posts I read about her has anybody claimed she’s talented.
It’s like that American Idol competition where the fat fellow was competing in the finals against Clay Aiken. It was all about which ideology would prove more potent, so I stopped watching. I mean, why do people need to sing at all? They could just stand on the stage, and we’d vote on whose identity is more pleasing to us.
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