Spent some time with people who are passionately opposed to the Common Core. When I asked them what it is they hate about it, they regressed to the pre-verbal stage and responded with moans and eye-rolling. I wanted to ask what educational standards had been used on them to make it so hard to express a deeply held belief of their own in a complete sentence but thought better of it. The moaning continued for quite a while, becoming very complex and inventive.
I’ve been trying to get people to talk about the reasons they dislike Common Core for months. But the result is always the same. As a result, I’m not sure if Common Core is dangerous but the discussions about it obviously are.
Clarissa's Blog 
I’m going to class soon, but I’m commenting here now to remind myself to write something about it when I get off the bus.
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That’s been my experience too. I do hear some criticism of the idea of national standards, but it all applies equally to the (state) standards already in place so I’m not sure how they expect CC to be worse.
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“That’s been my experience too. I do hear some criticism of the idea of national standards, but it all applies equally to the (state) standards already in place so I’m not sure how they expect CC to be worse.”
– Exactly. I’m opposed to the idea of standardized tests, especially in the form they exist now. However, I would love to hear – specifically and concretely – why this system is supposed to be so much worse than the one already in place.
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Fear that it will devolve into another standardized punishment like NCLB or Race to the top. I am against it in practice, not against the idea of it. Teachers and schools need at least ten years of rest from the beatings and other torture they have received. They need to be allowed to do whatever they think is necessary. Then once they recover they should be offered common core not forced to have it. This is the only way it will work. It is just like asking my students, who come to college with a 5th grade education, to perform at a college level and then punish them when they cannot. You have to be realistic, you have to be kind, and you have to respect the experience people come with and acknowledge the things they already know. Otherwise you will get nowhere. And plus, I personally do not trust the Federal government on anything about education, and certainly not Arne Duncan, after what they have done with NCLB. They should fund local schools to the max, offer them anything, force nothing on them, and pay teachers more so that people who actually might be able to do something like common core get into the schools. But stop forcing s— on people. I will never, never forgive them for NCLB, I repeat, and I will never trust them again.
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“Fear that it will devolve into another standardized punishment like NCLB or Race to the top.”
– Standardized punishment is wrong and NCLB is a total disaster. But I’m seeing people who had no problem whatsoever with NCLB and actually lauded it but are now passionately against Common Core. Am I mistaken in supposing that this is a political thing for these specific people? They liked NCLB because it came from Bush and hate CC because it comes from Obama when, in reality, there is not a whole lot of difference between the two?
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BIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIINGO! Touchdown! Goal! Home Run!
“NCLB = Bush = good; CC = Obama = bad” – it’s all about politics. The fear is that their side won’t be able to control the content. Bush: Evolution not real. “Civil War” not about slavery. Slavery not that bad because slaves got evangelized. Global warming a hoax. Obama: Scientific consensus is that evolution is real and global warming is real – get used to the ideas. Of course, the Civil War was about slavery.
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““NCLB = Bush = good; CC = Obama = bad” – it’s all about politics. The fear is that their side won’t be able to control the content.”
– I would have preferred to be wrong. But it’s better to know than not to know.
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Yes, that is true, although I think CC is better than NCLB, which they also do not like.
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” I think CC is better than NCLB”
– It’s not hard to be better than NCLB. Which I’m sure you know.
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“I will never, never forgive them for NCLB”
– NCLB was, of course, a kiss of death to the secondary education. I’m dealing with the results every day, so I’m with you here.
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I agree that the mania for standardized testing has been bad for secondary education. I am no fan of Common Core test-mania. I don’t have to deal with the results quite as directly as you do.
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I am reposting a previous comment I made because I posted it in a place that wasn’t really about the Common Core. I apologize for the repeat comment. 🙂 The Common Core is so new, it’s hard to see how it’s all going to net out. There are some good things about it. I for one think that a nationally adopted curriculum makes it harder for schools to teach things like “Intelligent Design;” so I support some national standardization. I also like that the Common Core increases analysis of primary texts across the curriculum. So those things are good.
One of the worst things about the CC is that it continues if not intensifies No Child Left Behind’s (one of Bush’s worst pieces of legislation) policies of frequent high stakes testing. Many people also object to how the Common Core teaches math (I don’t know enough about that to comment on it.) Perhaps the most worrisome thing about the Common Core is that it is heavily sponsored by and was lobbied for ETS (Education Testing Service)– the company responsible for the SAT and GRE. So many people fear that this is imposing a for-profit model on public schooling. Again, time will tell how this all plays out. But it does make me nervous to think that ETS–not teachers– are deciding national educational policies.
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I’m hugely in favor of standardizing the curriculum. But just as hugely opposed to multiple choice standardized testing being used to persecute teachers. I believe that student performance on such standardized tests (or any tests) should not have any impact on the teachers’ remuneration, contracts, employment, etc. And the common curriculum should ideally be designed by educators. And ETS should go and die a painful death someplace.
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“But just as hugely opposed to multiple choice standardized testing being used to persecute teachers. believe that student performance on such standardized tests (or any tests) should not have any impact on the teachers’ remuneration, contracts, employment, etc. ”
Exactly. And the Common Core promises to continue those sorts of policies. However, as you point out above, multiple choice standardized testing is _already_ being used to persecute teachers. So the CC isn’t any worse than what is already going on in that sense. Overall, I think the CC might be better than current policy in many ways.
“And the common curriculum should ideally be designed by educators. And ETS should go and die a painful death someplace.”
Yes. Yes. Yes.
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“I’m hugely in favor of standardizing the curriculum”
I’m hugely not in favor of it beyond the state level. I like the old laboratory of democracy idea and national standardization tends to not work well with that.
I don’t know enough about common core to say anything intelligent beyond that it’s a bad idea to implement an entire system at once (since, for example, a curriculum designed for sixth graders won’t work as planned unless theyve had the previous five years of the same system).
If they’re not intended to roll it all out at once then I retreat back to my position of ignorance (except…. from the little I’ve read it doesn’t seem to allow for different learning styles of levels of intelligence assuming that all children can be made into bookish intellectuals which I doubt is true).
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“I’m hugely not in favor of it beyond the state level.”
– Parochialism is dead. Those who graduate from a school in the same state, then go to college in that same state, then have all of the jobs in that same state don’t really exist any longer. That model is dead.
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“Parochialism is dead”
So’s the nation state. Why centralize to a governmental level that’s dying (and wants to divest itself of education anyway)?
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“Why centralize to a governmental level that’s dying (and wants to divest itself of education anyway)?”
– That’s the first step. The standardization with other developed countries is inevitable. And it will come in the near future. Now the goal is not to allow that process to be stratified. The workforce is getting stratified as it is, and when education becomes all about high quality, international standards for the children of the rich and the parochial, limited, online crapola for the poor, that won’t be good for any one.
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The standardization with other developed countries is inevitable. And it will come in the near future.”
That sounds like an Orwellian nightmare.
“Now the goal is not to allow that process to be stratified”
You can’t have liquidity without stratification (or some other major downside). Human social reality abhors a vacuum and if you dismantle structures in one place like national, cultural or linguistic borders then they’ll just firm up structures in another (or create new ones).
“high quality, international standards for the children of the rich and the parochial, limited, online crapola for the poor, that won’t be good for any one”
My prediction is that the actual content of curriculum will have little affect on stratification. Elites will find ways to signal each other and freeze others out.
And now we come to my big problem with common core (with comments here and a very little reading elsewhere). It seems that it’s trying to have the teachers do the learning for the children.
Teaching is not that hard compared to learning (as much as some teachers want to act like martyrs) but if children come from an environment that doesn’t value education then new protocols for teachers won’t change that.
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“You can’t have liquidity without stratification (or some other major downside). Human social reality abhors a vacuum and if you dismantle structures in one place like national, cultural or linguistic borders then they’ll just firm up structures in another (or create new ones).”
– Let’s not be too dramatic about this. Stratification in modern developed societies only means that some people will work day and night while others will watch TV all day while getting enormously fat. Today’s poverty is grossly obese, not emaciated. But it’s unfair that kids should land on the couch next to their parents without even being given a chance.
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The ETS factor is key, key, key.
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I’m guessing people who don’t like common core hate it because they feel stupid when helping their children do homework.
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For example, in this link I could readily figure out these problems, which the National Review thoroughly ridicules. Of course, I really hated memorization of times tables as a kid, so this would have helped me.
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OK, I looked at these exercises and see no problem whatsoever. These are great, fun activities. What is it about them that can possibly make anybody so angry?
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I would have gotten the length of the crayon wrong. I’m pretty sure I would have thought the pictures were meant to represent the objects in the real world in which case they’re all longer than the crayon….
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If they have to help their children do homework, something has already gone really wrong. And not at school.
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If by “help” you mean “do it for them”, then yes, something has really gone wrong.
If by “help” you mean “tell your kid to do their homework and get materials” then I’m not sure.
I did my homework in in 1st and 2nd grade without my parents telling me to do my homework, which was considered unusual. I had a period in middle school where I decided not to do a paper and ended up failing the paper (after a parent-teacher conference, where the teacher wanted me to fail the class and my parents wanted me to get the A after doing the paper). And they helped me with getting materials for science projects. But for the most part, they did not supervise me or nudge me to do homework. My parents, otoh, were much more involved with my brother’s homework in special ed.
In high school, I had classmates who had regular standing dates with tutors to maintain their A average. In contrast, the idea of tutors was anathema to my parents even when I was struggling.
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“I did my homework in in 1st and 2nd grade without my parents telling me to do my homework, which was considered unusual. I had a period in middle school where I decided not to do a paper and ended up failing the paper (after a parent-teacher conference, where the teacher wanted me to fail the class and my parents wanted me to get the A after doing the paper). And they helped me with getting materials for science projects. But for the most part, they did not supervise me or nudge me to do homework. My parents, otoh, were much more involved with my brother’s homework in special ed.”
– Great parents. Good for you! I love stories about good parents. I even discuss those stories with my husband in the vein of, “Ok, so get this. It turns out there are good parents in the world.”
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One problem I’ve heard that no one has mentioned up stream is that common core advocates for teaching a lot of things (like math skills) differently than what the teachers are used to. The problem is that these changes are adopted with very little training for the teachers. Their teaching and the tests (I think everyone has explained/knows the problems with the tests) therefore end up a big jumbled mess.
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Okay. I have a sister in high school that’s gone over to Common Core, and a mom who has to teach it to first graders. I don’t know quite as much about the high school level than about the elementary level, though–mostly because my sister doesn’t talk to me much.
The biggest complaint I have is that it is developmentally inappropriate. A legitimate question on a CC math homework for kindergarteners or first graders is something along the lines of “Why does 2 + 2 = 4?” I have no clue what the answer is supposed to be–and neither do the teachers who actually have to teach to this curriculum. Is it a pattern recognition thing? Do we say that 2 + 2 = 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 = 4? But…doesn’t that defeat the point of memorizing the whole thing? Other documentation claims that you’re actually supposed to say that 2 + 2 = 5 – 1 = 4, though where you’re supposed to get the five as someone just learning addition for the first time, I have no clue. And in the end, you don’t actually ever answer the question of “why” that was posed in the first place. Add to that the fact that many assignments and tests will require complete sentences as answers, and it makes absolutely no sense.
In addition, a CC answer key might say something completely ridiculous. If I recall correctly, on my sister’s homework early in the school year, there was some stupid question like “Explain why 2 * 3 = 6 in complete sentences.” No more direction is given, and no one really knows how to explain it. My sister came up with an absolutely brilliant explanation involving multiplications as patterns in addition–which is true, and a perfectly reasonable response for a senior in high school. However, the whole thing was marked as incorrect because the answer key made according to the CC standards (I’m pretty sure it was taken from a CC test) came up with something involving addition and subtraction, and, for some reason, the number 10. Of course no one got the right answer, because a.) according to CC there was only one correct answer, which is obviously false, and b.) no one even thought to include this random 10, which also indicates that it’s probably not even the standard answer to such a question.
Another point is in primary school history and social studies, where a class of first graders might have to learn–and be tested on–the exact same topic and the exact same level as a group of sixth or seventh graders. For example, my mom had to find a way to teach an entire ancient civilizations curriculum in the space of a few weeks to a group of first graders who were still learning the concept of time. While an exceptionally bright kid might understand the topic and even show interest, these kids weren’t at the point developmentally that they would have understood most of the topic at the level my mom was being asked to teach.
Using CC tests and homework results to judge teacher performance is utterly ridiculous, too. CC teaches kids that there is only one answer to a problem, and ignores the fact that different people work and learn in different ways. It also completely ignores the fact that children of different ages and disability status have different needs. A first grader needs to be able to tell time and add and subtract. They shouldn’t have to learn why, unless that’s the way they learn best (and then, the real “whys” of addition and subtraction are an upper-level university topic). The big problem of the CC is the way it attempts to control teachers too much by putting too much emphasis on finding the “right process,” when really there are multiple processes that work just as well. And the process the CC dubs to be “correct” isn’t always the best choice for a given problem.
I fully support standardization in curriculum, but the Common Core goes way too far. My mom teaches multiple-handicapped kids, and they’re going to need a lot of differentiated teaching that the Common Core doesn’t support. I think everyone needs some level of differentiated teaching, especially at the primary school level. I guess what I’m trying to say is that standardization in information is good and should happen. But Common Core places more emphasis on standardization of process, and that will never be right.
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Thank you for the detailed response!
“The biggest complaint I have is that it is developmentally inappropriate. A legitimate question on a CC math homework for kindergarteners or first graders is something along the lines of “Why does 2 + 2 = 4?” ”
– I think it’s a great idea to ask kids to explain rather than get them to memorize. Why would anybody see this as problematic?
“Other documentation claims that you’re actually supposed to say that 2 + 2 = 5 – 1 = 4, though where you’re supposed to get the five as someone just learning addition for the first time, I have no clue.”
– Again, this also sounds like a brilliant idea.
“Add to that the fact that many assignments and tests will require complete sentences as answers, and it makes absolutely no sense.”
– Why? Are these 5-year-olds still not speaking in complete sentences?
“If I recall correctly, on my sister’s homework early in the school year, there was some stupid question like “Explain why 2 * 3 = 6 in complete sentences.” No more direction is given, and no one really knows how to explain it. My sister came up with an absolutely brilliant explanation involving multiplications as patterns in addition–which is true, and a perfectly reasonable response for a senior in high school. However, the whole thing was marked as incorrect because the answer key made according to the CC standards”
– Now we are getting to a real problem. Why are these teachers grading according to “answer keys”? I didn’t even grade my only multiple choice test according to an answer key.
“While an exceptionally bright kid might understand the topic and even show interest, these kids weren’t at the point developmentally that they would have understood most of the topic at the level my mom was being asked to teach.”
– My personal opinion is that it is never too early to talk about such topics with kids of any age. I’m in favor of talking about them to infants (while they are awake.) I am convinced that such infants will grow up with great vocabulary and will have no problem speaking in complete sentences at the age of 5.
“The big problem of the CC is the way it attempts to control teachers too much by putting too much emphasis on finding the “right process,” when really there are multiple processes that work just as well. And the process the CC dubs to be “correct” isn’t always the best choice for a given problem.”
– OK, the real problem – as I’m finally finding out and thank you for that – is that teachers are told to grade in a certain specific way, right? Grading is supposed to be conducted on the basis of comparing the students’ answers with answer keys, right? If that is true, then that is absolutely idiotic, ridiculous and shouldn’t happen. However, my question is: how is the grading done now? Are the answer keys an innovation introduced by the Common Core or have they been there for a while?
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I think a huge problem with asking kids to explain their answers comes along when you have students who are either a.) developmentally behind, or b.) better with memorization. I personally learn best by reasoning, but there are plenty of other kids who don’t. And when you have students who are developmentally behind and just now learning the concepts of numbers and time, asking these kids to come up with reasons for addition or expecting them to come up with the 2 + 2 = 5 – 1 can be frustrating to all people. I think a huge problem in my mom’s case was being expected to teach these concepts to students who were still grasping the concept of numbers. In this situation, when learning fundamental concepts such as addition, I think students should be taught in the way that they learn best.
As to the complete sentences, many of these kids–in my mom’s case–aren’t writing in complete sentences, or don’t have the vocabulary to fully explain their answers. There are some who aren’t speaking in complete sentences, either, but that’s a whole different flavor of pie.
“My personal opinion is that it is never too early to talk about such topics with kids of any age. I’m in favor of talking about them to infants (while they are awake.) I am convinced that such infants will grow up with great vocabulary and will have no problem speaking in complete sentences at the age of 5.”
– I agree. I agree very, very much. Unfortunately, many parents don’t talk to their children about such topics at all. I feel I should have qualified my comment with the fact that my mom works at a school for hearing-impaired children, and some of them have other developmental or learning disabilities. Quite a few deaf children grow up with little-to-no communication with their parents, or never learn sign language until they get to school, which means they often get frustrated, and have more difficulty with vocabulary and concepts which they may have internalized but have no words for. It can also be difficult to internalize new concepts.
“OK, the real problem – as I’m finally finding out and thank you for that – is that teachers are told to grade in a certain specific way, right? Grading is supposed to be conducted on the basis of comparing the students’ answers with answer keys, right? If that is true, then that is absolutely idiotic, ridiculous and shouldn’t happen. However, my question is: how is the grading done now? Are the answer keys an innovation introduced by the Common Core or have they been there for a while?”
Yes. This is the problem. I think Anon touched on the issue–they said that teachers are expected to accept very specific answers when they haven’t been trained to used the Common Core in that way. Nowadays, grading is inconsistent. My mom doesn’t use answer keys. Most of my teachers don’t, especially when grading open-ended questions. But there are teachers who do, and they almost always look for a very specific process without necessarily telling the student that they are expecting that process. The answer keys are meant to be a solution to this inconsistency, but at the same time it’s like the makers of the Common Core don’t trust teachers to be responsible graders, and don’t trust the students to get the right answers with the method they find most comfortable using.
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‘I feel I should have qualified my comment with the fact that my mom works at a school for hearing-impaired children, and some of them have other developmental or learning disabilities.”
– And such schools don’t have a separate curriculum? Oh Lordy.
“My mom doesn’t use answer keys. Most of my teachers don’t, especially when grading open-ended questions.”
– Good.
“But there are teachers who do, and they almost always look for a very specific process without necessarily telling the student that they are expecting that process. ”
– Again, oh Lordy.
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I don’t know much about Common Core. When I’m not well informed about a policy idea, I employ the following shortcut:
If it’s proposal backed financially and politically by the cretins of the Walton family (of Walmart fame), I become very suspicious of its claimed benefits.
It’s lazy, I know, but I don’t use this heuristic all the time.
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…it’s a proposal…
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“If it’s proposal backed financially and politically by the cretins of the Walton family (of Walmart fame), I become very suspicious of its claimed benefits.”
– Or the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation. Those are real evildoers.
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The teachers I know support Common Core, that is, they support nationally standardized curriculum. The valid concerns I’ve heard are: 1) Teachers aren’t being given enough training 2) Implementation of Common Core is being implemented faster than reasonable 3) Old and/or new testing may lag behind in ability to accurately assess the results.
I also think it’s fair to say that everybody involved, esp. parents and teachers, experiences STRESS when CHANGE is forced upon them. Doesn’t matter if the change is good or bad.
And also, there’s the POWER and CONTROL issues — national vs. state control, union control, teacher control of their own classrooms. And parents, who would like to be in complete control of all aspects of their child’s education, even when the parent doesn’t have a clue about education.
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“I also think it’s fair to say that everybody involved, esp. parents and teachers, experiences STRESS when CHANGE is forced upon them. Doesn’t matter if the change is good or bad.”
– SO TRUE.
“nd parents, who would like to be in complete control of all aspects of their child’s education, even when the parent doesn’t have a clue about education.”
– SO COMPLETELY AND TOTALLY TRUE. I really believe everybody would be better served if people just relaxed a bit about kindergarten math.
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Teacher’s resignation letter: ‘My profession … no longer exists’
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2014/11/10/1343935/-Teacher-s-resignation-letter-My-profession-no-longer-exists
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After reading the letter, I can only say that it is, indeed, a good thing he is resigning.
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