People are incredibly stupid. A newscaster in Arizona has to defend herself for pronouncing Spanish words correctly because idiots were traumatized by the realization that other languages exist. The newscaster broke the unwelcome news to them:
Just so you know, I was lucky enough to grow up speaking two different languages and I have lived in other cities in the U.S., South America, and Europe. So, yes, I do like to pronounce things the way they are meant to be pronounced and I know that change can be difficult, but it’s normal. And I know that, over time, everything falls into place.
Just in case anybody has any more questions about the permanently unhireable, ask yourself what kind of a modern workplace would want an infantile hysteric who goes into fits when hearing the word “mesa” pronounced correctly.
Clarissa's Blog 
I am pretty sure I am unhireable in the US. For whatever reason my current skillset is valued by the international market at a rate far below US Federal minimum wage.
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Join the club, I remember talking to an Australian who was living between Poland and Germany about his prospects in his home country. “I’ve got tons of skills” he said “but none that the market is interested in”. I knew just how he felt.
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J Otto. I don’t believe i have ever commented in regards to you so i want to preface this by i do not mean to be impolite. My question is what skillset is it that you have that is more valuable internationally than in the US? I am genuinely curious to understand (especially if you are in a developed country with say GDP above $25k per capita)
Some skillsets become obsolete as technology advances, and I think people have a hard time with that. Blacksmiths are skilled in a way that i am surely not, but they couldn’t provide a living in the advance world (maybe there are a few oddball cases?). I guess I am just trying to obtain if the US is just an outlier in your skillset, or if you would need to retool / modernize to work here.
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Otto is a professor of history in Ghana. He is very talented and has publications coming out of his ears. But he’s anti-Soviet and his American colleagues don’t want him. Which is extraordinarily unfair.
I’ve read his stuff. He’s a very serious scholar who does very important work. It’s a crying shame that he isn’t wanted in this country.
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Hmm, well that is a shame, and i am surprised by the anti-soviet being such a big deal. Either way sounds like he is an important / wise scholar as you attest, and i wish him the best of luck.
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In a world where everything is jive plastic, the man who can fix the ancient iron things that people still depend on is king …
… or at least I’m reliably told this by someone who makes reproduction iron works for people who need to replace items in historically listed buildings, among other things.
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Wow. This reminds me of the people who are driven into apoplectic fits of rage by the “para continuar en espanol oprima numero dos” option in automated phone transactions. The sheer intensity of their reaction is amazing. They really feel like they are being personally harmed in some way.
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All bank machines in Europe (except maybe in the UK) you first have to choose the language which includes the local language, English and usually another one or two (Where I live the options are Polish, English and German while Russian is an option in some other cities).
I’ve never heard a single European complain about this and they clearly don’t believe me when I tell them that some Americans find it offensive when bank machines offer Spanish (though it’s often crap Spanish I remember one that said ‘su transaccion esta siendo procesada” instead of “su transaccion se procesa ahora” like they do in Spain.)
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Just checked this today — the nearby Halifax machine asks you to select from English, German, French, and Spanish before proceeding.
I’ve also seen Polish as an option instead of Spanish in some other locations in the UK, and bank machines in Wales often present an option for Welsh instead of German or Spanish.
When in the United States, if I feel that someone’s shoulder surfing, if the machine presents an option for French, I usually select it because it tends to cause some annoyance, or I choose Japanese if the machine is really, really good with multiple languages. 🙂
Anyway, there’s a fantastic joke a Finnish friend told me once …
“What do you call people who speak three languages well, who can travel to other countries without being completely out-of-touch with the local proceedings?”
“No idea …”
“You call them Europeans! What do you call people who speak one language well, another language barely, and a third language only well enough to understand how to find a brothel or a porta-loo?”
“I don’t know …”
“You call them Brits! What do you call people who speak their native language poorly, who have no clue about how to speak another language, and who find learning any languages at all inimical to their sense of being?”
“Well mate, that’s obvious — you’ve got to be talking about Americans.”
“AND SO I AM!”
🙂
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You do realize that is a VERY old joke, right?
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Poor useless losers. I’m sure we all know who they are voting for.
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Many English words/names of foreign origin are pronounced differently in English than they are in their original language. When one is speaking English, the speaker should use the correct English pronunciation. That’s the way proper English is spoken.
No one in America talks about driving their “FOLKS-VAHGEN” car, or visiting “MESSICO CITY.” If a person is fortunate enough to be bilingual, he/she should strive to pronounce both languages correctly.
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I’m sure people will survive hearing Los Angeles pronounced correctly. And if they don’t, that’s their problem as modernity ‘ s rejects.
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People survive hearing bad English (mispronunciations , faulty sentence structure, plural pronouns referring to single objects, etc.) all the time. That doesn’t make bad English good English.
The correct way to pronounce “Los Angeles” in American English is the way California Governor Jerry Brown does. Using the Spanish pronunciation in an English sentence isn’t a crime, but it shows a lack of fluency in English.
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These poor rubes in Arizona can only dream of having obe tenth of my fluency in English. And what they survive or not is of no interest to me. I’m simply pointing out that they are pissing away their chances to make anything of themselves in a world that has no place for their sad ignorance.
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“MESSICO CITY”
In Spanish it’s pronounced MEH-hee-koh not with an ‘s’. But in my experience Mexicans usually pronounce it dee-STREE-to feh-deh-RAHL (distrito federal) rather than Ciudad de Mexico.
I do tend to agree with the general point, it’s kind of pretentious to try to pronounce names in the original all the time. But it’s not something to get upset about either (in other words, I’m thinking both sides of this are annoying for different reasons).
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I don’t get emotional when people pronounce mesa as “mayzay.” And if I did, I’d be deranged. Just like those who get overwrought over its Spanish pronunciation are.
I don’t care how anybody pronounces but the weirdly emotional response is really interesting.
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I agree, people get extremely emotional about language.
The maddest I ever saw one relative (who I was very close to) was when I casually mentioned that yeah, I’m sure her granddaughter (attending a school that was about 50% black) could understand and speak AAVE, even if she didn’t do it around her meemaw. The idea infuriated her.
Or look at how Russians talk about the Ukrainian language
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Or how Hillary’s accent changes when she crosses the Mason-Dixon Line…
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I haven’t actually heard that but it would make sense if she’s one of those people who picks up the accent around her.
When I try to force a cracker accent it never sounds right but when I’m around people who talk that way it starts coming out on its own….
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Except that Hillary doesn’t “pick it up” naturally during a one-hour fly-in speech.
When addressing a Southern gathering, there are times when she INSTANTLY goes into a phony Southern twang that she probably learned during her years in Arkansas, and it sounds very condescending when used as a political gimmick today.
I grew up in Tennessee in the 1950s and can talk in a heavy, no-longer spoken archaic black dialect (like you’ll hear if you listen to an old Huddie Ledbetter recording), but can’t think of any occasion when it would be appropriate to do so.
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It happens to me all the time, too. People often think I’m mocking them but I don’t control it! It just happens.
What’s “a cracker accent”? Is it the way people in South Carolina speak? That’s the worst accent ever.
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You don’t think Nikki Haley has a sexy accent? 🙂
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Cracker refers to white people born in non-touristy backwoods Florida (cracker is an insult in some contexts but not for white native Floridians for whom it’s a marker of identity). It’s sort of southern but kind of distinct too (you pronounce all the r’s).
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The term “cracker” isn’t limited to Floridians. It’s used nationwide as an insult term for poor, rural, mostly Southern whites — similar to “redneck” or “hillbilly.”
Apparently in some locations, as Cliff says, some whites also use it to refer non-disparagingly to themselves.
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The horrible accent in coastal South Carolina you may be referring to is called “Gulla” or “Gullah” …
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I just want to know where the “mayzay” pronunciation comes from. It just seems counter-intuitive. How in the world do they get a long A sound from the spelling?
I feel like the extreme emotional response has something to do with people clinging to the idea of the nation-state. Being from the US means pronouncing certain words in certain ways, so people who’d prefer the simple dichotomy of “Americans” and “everyone else” get mad at at anyone who says those words in different ways (even though pronunciations can and will differ greatly between states and even places within those states). And since this takes place in Arizona, where people have border issues to begin with, these people take it out on anyone whose Spanish pronunciations are different from their own — after all, it’s no fun making fun of a someone else’s language if you’re doing it on your own.
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The correct way to pronounce common words of foreign origin when speaking English to a broad television audience is the way those words are pronounced in standard, non-dialect English, period.
Yes, local English is pronounced differently in Boston, Brooklyn, and New Orleans. But if you watch the television news stations there, you won’t hear professional journalists/reporters speaking to the camera in weird local dialects. If they did, they’d correctly be called hicks and rubes. Ms. Ruiz is working for an English-language channel, not for Univision, and she should adjust her pronunciation accordingly.
And no, I’m not being hysterical, or a “hater,” or whatever juvenile term some people would like to use to shut down the discussion. But I’m also not going to pretend that speaking English and pronouncing words such as “Los Angeles” and “Volkswagen” like they’re spoken in Spanish and German is in any way correct. That doesn’t reflect your ability to speak multiple languages; it simply shows that you haven’t learned properly learned one of them.
So hate me; I’m still right about this 🙂
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And yes, I haven’t properly learned proofreading, as my last sentence above shows…
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However, there really isn’t a standard, non-dialect English. It doesn’t exist. If you’re speaking any language, you’re also speaking in a particular dialect.
How the hell am I going to hate you? I don’t even know you. However, I do know some of the people who get mad at people for not speaking “proper English” on TV. These are also the people who make fun of other people’s languages.
As for you being right — I’m actually leaning toward an argument that the whole pronunciation preference (especially for words like “mesa” or “Los Angeles” or “Volkswagen”) is subjective. You’re very self-assuming to suggest otherwise.
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You’re right — I’m very self-assuming, and there are plenty of anonymous commentators willing to hate me for my arrogance. I appreciate your not being one of them.
But there is a standard, non-dialect American English. Watch CNN, or Fox News, or MSNBC, or any of the broadcast networks, and you’ll hear it daily.
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Ever seen the movie “Blade Runner”?
There’s this bit near the beginning of the movie where one of the cops speaks a patois that’s a mash-up of several languages — in the non-director’s cut, Harrison Ford’s character says something to the effect that he knew the “lingo”, and every good cop did, which was a fantastic laugh since nearly every word comes from a different language …
Have fun doing that to people. 🙂
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Just in case anybody has any more questions about the permanently unhireable, ask yourself what kind of a modern workplace would want an infantile hysteric who goes into fits when hearing the word “mesa” pronounced correctly.
I suppose extreme xenophobia and modernity are incompatible.
At any rate I’m sure her viewing audience combusted in indignation upon a reminder of the city’s Mexican origins and her multilingualism. I’m sure they’d glowingly mention their one Latino friend upon a job interview. However they probably feel that someone who “works for them” just told them off.
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Here, here in Arizona we love Hispanics even more than Donald Trump does. And they love us, or they wouldn’t keep coming by the thousands.
!BIENVENIDA, AMIGOS Y AMIGAS! (Did I pronounce that correctly?)
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I walked into a London railway station location of Barburrito a few days ago …
… and was asked if I wanted “torr-TILLUH” chips with my “sowl-SUH”.
I suppose could have had a “queue-SUH-dilluh” instead …
I pressed onward with ordering pico de gallo and salsa de tomatillo verde despite the obvious language gap. 🙂
(… “ustedes no pueden entender una palabra que yo dije, verdad?” 🙂 )
Thankfully they also didn’t try to make such sauces as my favourite from Yucatan Mexico, which is xnipec salsa, because I knew I’d probably be deeply disappointed …
http://www.recipesource.com/side-dishes/salsas/01/rec0160.html
BTW, you can find habanero chiles that were grown in Dorset and Wiltshire, but they’re bred there for the base flavours rather than the heat. Consequently, if you’ve grown to be accustomed to the authentic thing, you might wonder if you’re actually eating the correct chiles …
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She should try out for golf announcer for one of the networks. They have high standards when it comes to style guide type stuff and even include the “th” in names of Spanish golfers such as Sergio García and José María Olazábal.
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Wow. That’s truly sophisticated. I wish I were into golf.
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I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, if you like psychoanalysis, you’ll love golf.
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Ah, it’s ’cause they are both slow, painful, expensive, and endless. 🙂
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Psychoanalysis isn’t painful to the therapist, who gets paid to nod off to sleep while the patient babbles on. (Freud admitted that he sometimes did that during therapy.) 🙂
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Yes, spending several hours every day with drug addicts, depressives, victims of child abuse, rape, torture, people who are grieving the loss of a loved one, all of whom weep, yell, and are at risk of killing themselves – what a total snooze of a job.
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Freud was treating rich neurotics whose only problem was figuring out their last dream, so I can see why his attention wandered.
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Yes, that’s true. Today’s patients are decidedly more interesting.
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Fascinating! I guess I have been pronouncing Nevada incorrectly all these years. But I find the “correct” pronunciation so ugly and awkward. I don’t feel like I can force my mouth to utter that ugly of a sound. 😉
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I’ve noticed that I do a thing in Spanish that’s probably weird and I’m pretty sure no native speakers do.
My accent of choice is peninsular with distinción (c before e and i and z pronounced like th and s pronounced more with the tip of the tongue almost like sh). In Latin America these are all pronounced more like an English s.
Anyhoo, I never extend distinción to Latin American place names or personal names or even things that are strongly associated with Latin America like that. So I’d pronounce the Spanish placename Zaragoza with th sounds but the Mexican one with s.
This is something like somebody using American pronunciation most of the time in English but dropping the r’s for British names (or particularly British things in general). (or vice versa using British pronunciation but sticking the r’s into American names).
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