I hope Germans will not start with their usual idiotic attempts to conceal what happened.
“People just started dropping for a mysterious reason. Maybe they had spontaneous heart attacks.”
Munich Shootings
Opinions, art, debate
Opinions, art, debate
I hope Germans will not start with their usual idiotic attempts to conceal what happened.
“People just started dropping for a mysterious reason. Maybe they had spontaneous heart attacks.”
Clarissa's Blog 
Regarding concealment, after reading
\Significant slowdown in posts on IS-linked Telegram channels as news spread that the attack may be another group’s handiwork.
AND
\ A Munich police spokesman says there is no indication of Islamist terror.
I wondered whether ISIS slows down on purpose to create the impression the shooters were their members.
Otoh, it’s not like ISIS gives out printed membership cards. Every not-entirely-integrated person can go, shoot and say it was because of ISIS.
How can police so surely say there is no indication? Would usual criminals go on a shooting spree? If “witnesses report three gunmen,” it can’t be a lone case of insanity. Which other group has behaved thus in the recent times, except Muslim terrorists (=Islamist terror)?
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“Otoh, it’s not like ISIS gives out printed membership cards. Every not-entirely-integrated person can go, shoot and say it was because of ISIS.”
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\If they say they did it for ISIS, it’s strange to doubt that.
But if they are killed by police and don’t say anything, it’ll stay a mystery forever (according to German authorities).
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The Afghan boy from the train left a very exhaustive text, I hear, explaining his motives. I don’t think anybody will be able to shut terrorists up now that we have social media. Even an illiterate terrorist can record a video.
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\ I don’t think anybody will be able to shut terrorists up now that we have social media.
If some smart terrorists wish for clash of civilizations scenario, they will sow more destruction by leaving their motives hidden.
When they say “ISIS” or any other word, Europeans think they (at least partly) know how to tackle the issue.
If seemingly random Muslims started shooting and exploding, the EU public would be even more paralyzed by fear and uncertainty, while governments would be even more unsure what believable to say either and which steps to declare to take.
Of course, I do not expect terrorists to remain silent, except by mistake, since their main goal seems to be serving their own egos.
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That would be sacrificing one’s individual chance to shine for the sake of a cause. And that’s so early 20th century. 😆
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Btw, I notice that the only dead terrorist so far is the one who committed suicide despite the mutual efforts of the local police and of Germany’s elite GSG 9 unit which was sent to Munich. They may be found a car, but no people yet, unless they hide this fact, but I doubt it.
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At this point my best guess is the munich attack is some kind of psychotic breakdown.
The attacker seems to be born in Germany of Iranian parents and was yelling “allahu akbar” and “I’m German” (and a very non-Iranian name was given for him earlier).
I really doubt this would be the islamic state since they are hardcord sunni and iran is mostly shia.
And apparently he shot himself which is not something terrorists do. the whole martyr complex depends on being killed by others, suicide only works if it takes out others (like human bombs).
The atmosphere in Europe is really crazy now so along with the islamic state wannabes as in nice there’s just gonna be more of this kind of thing (and sooner or later indigenous violent organizations – the governments fear them so much they can’t help but help bring them about).
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People are freaking out big way. I have to agree, this shit will just keep mushrooming, fed by fear and hysteria. I think Merkel is definitely done for now.
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\ At this point my best guess is the munich attack is some kind of psychotic breakdown.
I agree. But why don’t we hear of ethnic Germans having breakdowns which paralyze entire cities? It’s not like only Muslims can be psychotic, and in Germany the majority is German.
Being born in Germany, being unconnected to ISIS and probably shia makes it worse since it’s the case of “leaving their motives hidden,” as I described in the previous comment to this post.
If we get
““A friend of mine went to school with him and said he was rather a quiet guy.”
together with
“Nine people were shot and killed, and a further 21 injured” (together with the gunman 10 people died)
it supports the claims of all Muslims being a danger and completely unpredictable.
Meanwhile, I wonder how he got the gun and why he was let into a mall with it. Regarding the latter question, I do not wonder any more. I just imagined there was a guard at the entrance like in Israel, but if nobody was there… May be, Europeans will put armed guards at malls’ entrances too soon, if violence continues?
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Ethnic Germans have had breakdowns that started two world wars. So it’s not like German ethnicity makes one immune from violent outbursts. They’ve been peaceful for a historical nanosecond but everybody is sitting here, afraid they’ll go back to it if something goes wrong. Let’s not pretend that the words “neo-nazis in Germany” aren’t terrifying.
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\ Let’s not pretend that the words “neo-nazis in Germany” aren’t terrifying.
I simply can not believe history will repeat itself in such a way, so do not feel any terror at those particular words. Fascism has been completely discredited in first world countries, according to Bobbitt whom you supposedly trust. 🙂 The most any rise may do is to make German society more Right wing and less ready to receive millions of migrants.
Israel is very Right wing. I have voted for Bibi myself, and am still alive and well and not a neo-nazi. Being slightly more Right wing will not magically turn Germans into Nazis either.
Bobbitt writes about compassion fatigue of 1st world citizens, and how countries will attempt to pressure other states to help (like Germany has done) rather than shouldering the responsibility themselves and paying the economic price. What we are seeing in Germany are the signs of this compassion fatigue, not the signs of Nazi revival.
I am worried about the Middle East and religious fanatism, though. In my part of the world, the current dangers seem evident and bear zero connection to German neo-Nazis.
After reading Bobbitt’s book, I am also thinking in the direction of the competition between different kinds of market states creating a new central conflict rather than any return to the old battle. Environmental issues may contribute to rising tensions too, when more will want / be forced to immigrate.
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Yeah. . . If somebody had told me 3 years ago that within a few months Russian troops would be killing Ukrainians in the Donbass, Russia would annex the Crimea and my aunt in Donetsk would be a refugee, I’d have ridiculed them into the ground. And there were signs but I was refusing to see them. Which is why I will never again say that history can’t repeat itself.
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\ And there were signs but I was refusing to see them. Which is why I will never again say that history can’t repeat itself.
But, where are the signs in Germany? If you believe most Germans support the current immigration policy, you can not also claim logically there is a real danger of German neo-Nazis rising to power.
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I’m not saying they will rise to power. But it’s not impossible that a gang of young hoodlums will get together and will go beat up some immigrants or perceived immigrants.
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—Fascism has been completely discredited in first world countries,
It is a bit more complicated than that. One probably cannot put these particular words on the banner and get too far away with it. However, one can get quite far while insisting that one is not a Nazi at all, one is “just legitimately right-wing”, or “just legitimately nationalist” or “just legitimately patriotic”, or “just-common-sense”, or even “anti-fascist”, or “cannot-possibly-be-a-Nazi-because-of-belonging-to-either-Nazi’s biggest-victims-or-Nazi’s-main-defeaters-or-both”…
Let me offer you some very hardcore Estonian parody. Read the comments too. They explain some defects of translation… And then “just common sense patriots” descend onto them…
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Thank you! The Estonian parody was simply great. Very catchy melody and funny!
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It is indeed a very good melody. The original is a very famous patriotic song from the 80-ies. The correct translation of the title is “No county is alone”, so it is technically, among other things and just being about unity, an allusion to preventing our very own Donbass…
Some hardcore patriotic videos 🙂 :
The next one is even more catchy, at least for me.
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valter07, have you always been living in Estonia? Or are you currently in America?
Simply wondering whether / how non-English countries’ people found the blog.
🙂
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Valter07 is my friend. He was one of the very first people I sent the blog when I first started it.
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Technically, I am in Canada. But I knew Clarissa online (from some other site) long before we actually met…
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But at some point some Estonian girl with Asperger’s syndrome living in England was on Clarissa’s blog…
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I’ve had the most unusual people from everywhere here. It’s the best thing about the blog.
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Or maybe we are not real, but figments of your imagination. Including myself – you created Valter07 to explore some ideas about nation-state… 🙂 🙂
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Have you been reading Borges? :-))))
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Very curious exchange between the shooter and several German men is below, under the word QUOTE (it was before he killed anybody, if I understood it right).
I have never been of the kind to blame Germans’ intolerance for Muslim terror acts, but here can’t help wondering at the criminal stupidity of David S.’s interlocutors. An unstable young man with a gun is in front of them, telling of being bullied and “now I have to buy a gun to shoot you,” and they can think of nothing better than to call him a cunt and shout “Shit/fucking foreigners!” ? WTF? I have no words.
I honestly began feeling pity for him after reading:
\ the 18-year-old is heard to say: “I am German”, while residents shout abuse at him, including the work ‘kanake’ which is a derogatory term for foreigner. He says he was born in Germany, and comes from a ‘Hartz IV area’. He adds that he has been “undergoing treatment”.
In Israel, nationalism is very strong, so reading about a person w/o ability to belong despite probably initially desiring to did strike in a soft spot.
QUOTE
https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2016/jul/22/munich-shooting-police-evacuate-shopping-centre-live?page=with:block-57932ff9e4b03a708a3b0f40#block-57932ff9e4b03a708a3b0f40
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Here is the problem: the man on the balcony SAID something unpleasant. Big whoop. The killer SHOT human beings. He could have used words and argued, insulted and verbally denigrated. But he took lives. There’s no excuse. The man on the balcony is vastly morally superior here.
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Clarissa, the most recent updates bring to mind your posts on parental responsibility. This young man in question:
A – was “receiving psychiatric and medical care”
B – had illegal weapons: “had a 2mm weapon, he also had around 300 rounds in his bag”
C – and a very special collection of books: “Police … found nothing to suggest links to terror groups but they did find books and documents about spree-shootings, including a book translated as “Rampage in Head: Why Students Kill” by US academic Dr Peter Langman. ”
I do not believe his parents had no idea regarding B and C. Yet, they will surely bear no criminal responsibility:
\The attacker’s family are yet to be interviewed as they are in shock, the conference was told. (Munich police are holding a press conference on the shootings.) \
Also, he calmly planned the shooting – hacked a young woman’s Facebook account and “sent a message urging people to come to the mall at 4 p.m. for a free giveaway at McDonalds.”
I guess, since it was not ISIS, things are as usual? What can be done to prevent such cases? I wondered whether parents should be hold responsible to some degree, but then thought punishing parents via state would be a plus for quite a few would be shooters, who are psychologically unable to exact punishment from their family themselves.
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It slaughters me when people give moral equivalency to the parents of the victims and of their murderer. There should at least be a conversation about what was going on in the house that a killer left two minutes before he murdered people. I’m thinking specifically of the Dallas terrorist of 2 weeks ago.
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Last comment for now.
\ I honestly began feeling pity for him after reading
Stopped already. Published that comment on another site and was interested in Gwen’s take (July 23, 2016 at 03:25 PM). It is interesting that a child of immigrants seemed to target new immigrants from different parts of the Arab world :
http://www.germanjoys.eu/2016/07/mass-pro-edogan-protest-coming-up-in-cologne.html#comment-6a00d834516a2569e201b8d20885e0970c
I am glad his real name was Ali Sonboly rather than David S. since the latter sounds very Jewish to my Israeli ears. “German anti-racism measures” fooled me and are frankly ridiculous.
Also, solvent green’s reply to Gwen was funny despite the sad topic.
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\ I honestly began feeling pity for him after reading
Am now ashamed to have written such:
German newspaper Bild has interviewed Thomas Salbey, the man who filmed the shooter on the roof of the car park near the Olympia shopping centre. My colleague Kate Connolly has translated the interview with the 57-year-old digger driver here.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2016/jul/22/munich-shooting-police-evacuate-shopping-centre-live?page=with:block-579386f5e4b0d75e7e5f2c0a#block-579386f5e4b0d75e7e5f2c0a
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He was aiming specifically at children. There is nothing to feel pity for.
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The perfect formula to calm the masses and prevent the rise of anti-Muslim feelings has been found by German authorities:
\ Inevitably, there continues to be much speculation on social media about Sonboly’s religious background. German interior minister Thomas de Maiziere said there is some evidence he was a Christian. \
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