I’m so tired of articles by people who moved to the US from Western Europe or Canada and who are eager to tell us how everything here sucks and everything over there rocks. If you liked it so much back in your country, then why the ef didn’t you stay?
Very annoying. And rude.
Clarissa's Blog 
Rude it may be (if rude is defined as “something one does not fancy hearing”) , but in general I think you are biased here for some reason…
People migrate with a variety of motivations. One may migrate for professional realization (aka finding a good job) but this does not automatically obligate a person to like everything in his/her new country OR ELSE. The same way you are not obligated to not say that Montreal rocks in some way while St-Louis sucks…
I see this idea that a newcomer (for several generations – wink) should not criticize anything as a close relative of the soviet and post-soviet “emigrants as traitors of the motherland” idea. (Or maybe then there is nothing wrong with that soviet idea either?..) The sign is different, but the underlying principle is the same. Where does this idea even come from that one should either fully accept some reality or leave (or not come in the first place)??? Why should any country be populated by people who all think alike and like or dislike the same things? You are obviously talking not about any attempts to forcibly overthrow the foundations of the society and establish some Wahhabi cult as the state religion… You are talking about people from Western Europe, for Pete’s sake…
People can of course democratically elect to turn their territory into reservation where they can tell each other only how great everything is in their reservation. But these peoples will fall behind.
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“One may migrate for professional realization (aka finding a good job) but this does not automatically obligate a person to like everything in his/her new country OR ELSE. ”
I criticize plenty here in the US. But I don’t condescend or preach. And when I start doing that, I will be ready to for people to ask me when I’m planning to buy my return ticket.
If somebody agrees to accept newcomers, I absolutely believe that newcomers should be grateful and willing to repay this great favor. And when people see the preachy immigrants and say, “You know what? Do we even need any immigrants here?”, I can’t judge them. Because I’d say the same in their place. This article by a dude from Finland that I read today is simply appalling. He is welcomed here in a way that nobody would welcome an immigrant in his country but he condescends to people in a way that is inexcusable.
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— I absolutely believe that newcomers should be grateful and willing to repay this great favor.
This is exactly where we disagree. I believe that immigrants and accepting country are inherently even to begin with. Remember, we are still talking about people migrating for jobs, not refugees saved from some war-torn country. The accepting country is solving some of its own problems at the expense of the immigrants (in the case of highly-qualified immigrants – saves hundreds of thousands of dollars someone else invested in our education) and should stop pretending that the ONLY thing that is happening is doing immigrants some great favor. And when immigrants themselves are participating in this illusion, seemingly against their own interests, it makes me question why… and unfortunately one explanation that comes to mind is that these immigrants subconsciously want to participate in some sort of “dedovschina” and some time along the way tell the next generations of immigrants that now they in turn have to be eternally grateful and shut up.
—I will be ready to for people to ask me when I’m planning to buy my return ticket.
I am ready for things like that too, because I am a realist and know what many people think, but it does not occur to me to think that something is fundamentally wrong with ME when that happens. I may decide that in a given particular situation, with this particular person of certain particular background bringing up some particular example might have been insensitive, and apologize, but I do not generally believe in indulging the “country’s owners” complexes. If someone does not like me I can buy them a ticket to the destination of their choice. Wherever the Mayflower came from, for example.
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Whatever one says to oneself to feel better about immigration is perfectly fine. But the basic laws of communicating within groups remain unchanged for centuries, and there’s a reason for that. We don’t bring our own samovar and our own “ustav” to a new place for a reason. If people live in a certain way and have done so for a long time, it cannot possibly be reasonable to start a communication with, “Gee, this stinks. Where I’m from we do it so much better.”
Imagine me coming to your house and ridiculing the decor, the food and the furniture because my house is organized differently and, anyway, I have decided that I made you a favor by showing up. What’s the likelihood that we will have a productive engagement after that?
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Hm… So far we were not talking about “starting communication” with these negative remarks. I bet all those people that inspired you for your post did not tell that everything sucks in North America to the first customs and immigration officer they encountered. They are living here, working here, contributing to the society, experiencing life and various interactions just like everyone else… and then are expected to shut up because it is not “their” country…
—But the basic laws of communicating within groups remain unchanged for centuries
Yes and no. I believe same rules apply to the changes in the interaction patterns within and between groups as to any other advances, for instance technological. Nothing remains as it was forever. The changes occur if there is enough push behind them occurring. The Luddites have the right to disagree. To sabotage the technical progress. Or to sabotage the societal progress by calling the opinion different from theirs “disrespectful” or “not in line with tradition”. To some extent this is true, any change is inherently “disrespectful” towards the tradition, but nobody seriously considers stopping technological progress based on such arguments.
And I did not say immigrants made anybody a favor, I said they and the accepting country are even. The example you brought up, with you showing up at my house and rudely criticizing the decorum confirms that you are operating in the “owners of the country” paradigm, with country as the private property of a certain group (on top of everything defined in some artificial way other way than “all citizens and permanent residents”). My whole point is that one should not apply this private property concept to a country. The relationship between people and their country is a contract, not an ownership relationship.
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Yes, I’m still hanging on to the nation-state mentality. It’s outdated, I know, and we should all move on. But I’m not that certain that what we are moving on to will be so amazing.
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And on a lighter note – Montreal rocks and sucks at the same time:
http://ottawacitizen.com/news/national/this-viral-video-from-montreal-puts-ottawa-traffic-problems-to-shame
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At least, you’ve got snow. . .
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It is human nature; Americans do the same thing when they move to Europe or Canada.
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Precisely. I always tell my students before they go on Study Abroad, “Just give it a chance. If people over there are doing (eating, drinking, dancing, etc) it this way, there might be a reason for that.”
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However, in Quebec? We do make the best poutine available, anywhere 😉
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Oh, poutine. . . I love having real poutine in Quebec. I also welcome readers from Quebec!
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