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Yovanovitch

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Clarissa

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I have absolutely no idea why it’s necessary to expose the whole country to petty resentments of an employee who’s “devastated” that her boss said something mean about her. It’s petty, ridiculous, internal squabbling that nobody can possibly care about. We’ve all squabbled with people at work.

It’s also bad for feminism to parade around a woman who is pretending to be a fainting damsel in distress who’s falling apart because somebody has been mean to her. I don’t know how she ever worked in Ukraine where people aren’t known for being sensitive wilting flowers. There’s no equivalent to “this made me feel” in Ukrainian or Russian.

30 responses to “Yovanovitch”

  1. el Avatar
    el

    I remember how people speculated about India taking the place of USA in the world. Seems unlikely according to Mike’s report:

    http://www.technologyasnature.com/outdia/

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    1. Clarissa Avatar
      Clarissa

      Here’s all we need to know about India’s capacity to take anybody’s place: https://www.google.com/amp/s/gulfnews.com/amp/world/asia/india/man-loses-wife-in-gamble-allows-friends-to-gangrape-her-1.1564748664269

      Do read until the end.

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  2. el Avatar
    el

    Some Trump supporters I read loved the impeachment hearings and wished for their continuation since

    “The president’s overall approval has been tracking up since Wednesday, the first day of the House impeachment hearings. It was at 46% on Wednesday morning, then rose to 48% yesterday and is now at 50%. Two of the three nights in today’s survey follow the highly-publicized hearings.”
    http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/trump_administration/prez_track_nov15

    Why are Democrats playing this game, again? To court their voters and to present the illusion of political activity?

    If Trump hasn’t done anything worthy of impeachment, wouldn’t impeaching him hurt America, its honor and democratic traditions?

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    1. Clarissa Avatar
      Clarissa

      Democrats have now pretty openly saying they can’t win the election and this is their only way of getting rid of Trump. Why it’s so hard to just win the darn election is still a mystery.

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    2. Clarissa Avatar
      Clarissa

      I’m not watching the impeachment hearings because I don’t want to want to vote for Trump. My opinion of Trump hasn’t changed, obviously, but my extreme contempt for the people in those hearings makes me want to see them lose everything they can.

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  3. cliff arroyo Avatar
    cliff arroyo

    “devastated” that her boss said something mean about her”

    Like I said, women are working to return to the social atmosphere of the 1950s so they can relive the second wave of feminism. As a movement it’s mostly (entirely?) given up on addressing non-western misogyny and it has nowhere else to go but backwards…

    So they’re making supposedly highly skilled professional women look like delicate infants who cannot function normally they’re (squeaky mouse girl from the Kavanaugh hearings also fits in here).
    Combine that with #metoo hysteria which tells men they shouldn’t interact in any way with women at work and within a year or two women in general will be all but unemployable…

    You’re going a long way back, baby….

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    1. Clarissa Avatar
      Clarissa

      It was so ridiculous when the guy questioning her suddenly went, in a voice of a bad psychotherapist, “And how did this make you feeeeeeel?” And she batted her eyelashes and said, “Teeeerrible.” So pathetic. I understand they need to do this because there’s no corpus delicti but it’s pathetic that every time a woman has to enact pathetic helplessness to help reach such goals.

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  4. cliff arroyo Avatar
    cliff arroyo

    “a fainting damsel in distress who’s falling apart because somebody has been mean to her”

    What’s she complaining about? One of Obama’s ambassadors came home in a body bag (in an ill advised attempt to make Hillary Clinton look qualified in foreign relations).

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    1. Clarissa Avatar
      Clarissa

      They have now understood the story is ridiculous and are cobbling together some ridiculous conspiracy theory where she was in mortal danger because Trump apparently colluded with some Ukrainians to kill her.

      To say it’s a total joke is to say too little. But I know people who honestly believe all this crap. He’s colluded with Russians! No, with Ukrainians! It’s quid pro quo! No evidence? Then it’s bribery! No evidence? Then it’s witness intimidation! Mary, cry to show how you are intimidated!

      Tomorrow we’ll hear Trump sexually molested Yovanovitch and she’s so traumatized she can’t move.

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  5. Nelson Avatar
    Nelson

    Ambassador Yovanovitch, when told to flee the country immediately because she may be in danger from figures behind some of the Ukrainian corruption, was potentially in more actual danger than I’d been able to realize. That evening she’d awarded a posthumous medal to Kateryna Handzyuk’s father — an anti-corruption activist who died of wounds sustained by an acid attack. Imagine the ambassador’s state of mind when she got the phone call just a few hours later re. Trump blithely claiming “bad things” might happen to her.

    But sure, this is no different than “It’s petty, ridiculous, internal squabbling that nobody can possibly care about. We’ve all squabbled with people at work.”

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    1. Clarissa Avatar
      Clarissa

      I’m so sorry they ate your brain like this. So, so sorry.

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      1. nelson Avatar
        nelson

        Says the Tucker Carlson fan.

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        1. Clarissa Avatar
          Clarissa

          Ooh, the really big argument has been whipped out for the bizillionth time! You watch a TV show I don’t like! This must mean… something! Everybody must like only the shows I like! Or they have cooties!

          Really?

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  6. MT Avatar
    MT

    “I have absolutely no idea why it’s necessary to expose the whole country to petty resentments of an employee who’s “devastated” that her boss said something mean about her. It’s petty, ridiculous, internal squabbling that nobody can possibly care about. We’ve all squabbled with people at work.”

    This is a specious analogy.

    I find Yovanovitch’s situation to be much more similar to your reaction to a recent article about you that you said you were humiliated about. – i.e. that made you feel humiliated. I went and found it. I completely understand where you’re coming from. Well, imagine if given all your achievements, the article didn’t mention a single one and said you were bad news.

    You may respond that you are writing about this on your blog instead of complaining about it in a televised impeachment hearing. To continue my analogy, imagine that a group of parents of students at your university “worked” with the head of your department to arrange for their children to receive excellent grades for turning in mediocre work. After that agreement was reached and before they could proceed, you were summarily removed from your job because the head of the department knew you wouldn’t let him get away with that.

    If you were then giving a deposition in a formal proceeding after that scheme was uncovered before the semester’s end, you would be completely justified to be outraged or disappointed. Any good prosecutor would make the jury sympathize with you and feel outrage on your behalf.

    Is it that Yovanovitch wasn’t outraged? Would you view her testimony differently were she angry instead of shocked and sad about the whole situation?

    Please give me the courtesy of not assuming I’m incapable of forming my own thoughts and have been brainwashed by the liberal media to say exactly what I’ve just said. I have great respect for you and am asking this in good faith.

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    1. Clarissa Avatar
      Clarissa

      I swear to God I couldn’t follow the analogy because it’s very confusing. My reaction to the article was facetious. I’m not really suffering. The writing is genuinely funny and I want to poke gentle fun at it. I never linked, though, and passwored the post because I don’t want to hurt the author’s feelings.

      As to Yovanovitch, she was removed from her appointment and told off publicly by her boss. Of course, it stings. And of course there is no human being alive capable of seeing any truth in criticisms so tactlessly delivered. I used to be a terrible writer in the style of the unfortunate journalist of my profile. But when my thesis advisor told me that directly, I decided she was a rabid bitch from hell who had some personal dislike for me and my incredible talent.

      However.

      When I went to talk to her about it, I was completely courteous and willing to hear her out, offered to throw away my entire dissertation, and write a new one from scratch. And I found a way to recognize that she was completely right and I was a shitty writer. All of the bleatings about how I was devastated and wounded were kept entirely within the private realm. In my professional life, I was completely cool, composed and open to criticism.

      This is why I don’t respect people who make their personal hurt of being criticized and dismissed into a public drama.

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      1. Clarissa Avatar
        Clarissa

        Also, you’ve got to agree,you just got to because these are facts of objective reality, that Obama didn’t send javelins to Ukraine and Trump did. Obama defied the will of the congress and didn’t send the javelins when they were tragically, urgently needed. Trump did send them. These are simply facts.

        But we are now all constantly discussing how Trump imperiled the national security of the US and undermined a crucial strategic partner like Ukraine. How can you possibly not see that this is insane? Obama didn’t send the javelins when Ukraine was bleeding out in warfare. But that didn’t undermine Ukraine. Trump did and that did undermine Ukraine.

        I don’t want to think that anybody is brainwashed but I very honestly don’t understand how people can square this in their heads. If they just cynically said they don’t care which method is used to remove the president they dislike, I’d get it. But people seem sincerely outraged and it looks very crazy to me because it goes against facts.

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        1. MT Avatar
          MT

          “This is why I don’t respect people who make their personal hurt of being criticized and dismissed into a public drama.”

          I completely understand why you feel this way. I used to be exactly the same. I only respected people who appeared strong, cool, and composed. Any display of vulnerability or pain was weakness. I achieved what I did in life by treating myself exactly the same way – having no pity for myself and pushing myself hard to do what was necessary regardless of how I felt. It’s an adaptation to trauma – you do this so you don’t fall apart. It’s not healthy and not sustainable, and eventually stopped working in my case.

          It’s also hard to feel empathy for others when no one had any for you when you were in worse situations. If a parent didn’t, then when you become one you often end up traumatizing your own children in exactly the same way.

          Yes, I agree that Trump helped Ukraine while Obama didn’t. But then he stopped helping when that was advantageous for him personally. Obama didn’t get criticized for not helping Ukraine, but there are plenty of other things he got criticized for unfairly while Trump is getting away with using his presidency to drum up business at his resorts.

          I agree that saying that Trump’s actions with Ukraine imperiled US national security sounds like it’s too much. I think it’s completely right in principle, though – a president who prioritizes his personal interests (money, winning, the need for praise) over the requirements of his job and the laws of the country he is supposed to be serving is bad for national security by definition. Wouldn’t you agree with that?

          I find letting Trump get away with all his corruption to be a much bigger problem than too much outrage about it. But the two things reinforce each other – the Democrats are getting more hysterical because the Republicans in power are acting as though everything Trump does is completely normal and are not constraining him in any way.

          I’m 7 years younger than you and left Ukraine earlier in the course of my own life. I wasn’t traumatized by the USSR and the indoctrination. You’ve experienced that personally and see the parallels between that and the ideological excesses of the left. I’ve experienced the collapse of the USSR and the open corruption in its wake and see parallels between that (as well as Putin’s mafia state) and how Trump is trying to run this country.

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          1. Clarissa Avatar
            Clarissa

            The only thing I’m seeing that Trump is doing that’s corrupt is placing his stupid idiot kids in jobs they don’t deserve by using his position of power. If he were denounced for that, I’d be very happy. But nobody is interested because they all do that. Look at the career of the supremely dumb Chelsea Clinton. Look at George W Bush. Look at Hunter Biden. They are all like this.

            As for liking praise and sending stupid tweets, these are personal flaws, not corruption. But look at what the presidents with impeccable characters have done. Obama bombed out half the Middle East and mishandled the post-recession. Dubya, who after some youthful transgressions, became very religious and a great family man of extremely sober living, invaded Iraq and caused a tragedy of great proportions in the region. Many people believe that he did that to avenge his daddy. How is that any better than any of what Trump did? But where was his impeachment? Where was the hysteria?

            Trump advanced his personal interests by saying something vaguely stupid to Ukraine’s president. And he traumatized some lady by saying she’s a bad employee. Bush advanced his personal interest by destroying a country and causing deaths of 500,000 people. Obama precipitated a genocide in Lybia and Yemen. I mean, what are we talking about here? I’m ready to join any exhibition of outrage over bombings and over the handouts to the Wall Street criminals who caused the global economic crisis. Instead, we are finding evidence of corruption in tweets and phone calls. That evil Trump, he goes fishing for praise all the time!

            It doesn’t make sense.

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            1. el Avatar
              el

              // Trump advanced his personal interests by saying something vaguely stupid to Ukraine’s president. And he traumatized some lady by saying she’s a bad employee. … Obama precipitated a genocide in Lybia and Yemen.

              Would you have voted for Obama over Trump in the next election if Obama ran again? Why?

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              1. Clarissa Avatar
                Clarissa

                No, I wouldn’t. Sadly, I wouldn’t.

                It’s weird that people look at Trump and see this scary, towering presence when he’s just a weak guy, a people pleaser who hasn’t been able to build a millimeter of his wall because he’s afraid of defying Jared Kushner.

                It’s the same with Putin. People see him as a genius who holds the planet in his hand when he’s simply an idiot. What he does is confusing not because he’s too deep but because he’s dumb.

                Then again, Obama is clearly brilliant, and how did that help us?

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            2. cliff arroyo Avatar
              cliff arroyo

              “Obama precipitated a genocide in Lybia and Yemen”

              And helped revive the slade trade in Lybia, don’t forget that! Even if I’m sure he has!

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              1. Clarissa Avatar
                Clarissa

                I mean, Obama was killing US citizens with drones. Trump sent a mean tweet about a US citizen. Which caused a greater scandal? Hmm, let me see.

                Obama is making money from giving speeches to the same Wall Street guys he rewarded for the recession. But that’s not corruption. Trump said something in a phone call that might be interpreted as something that he never carried out anyway. Bribery!!! Democracy in danger!!!

                I’ll never figure out why people have these intense reactions to him, positive or negative.

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  7. MT Avatar
    MT

    “It’s weird that people look at Trump and see this scary, towering presence when he’s just a weak guy, a people pleaser who hasn’t been able to build a millimeter of his wall because he’s afraid of defying Jared Kushner.”

    Where are you getting this from? He has tried his best to build the wall, using his executive powers to get money for it after Congress refused to give him any. The courts have also been getting in his way. You’re speaking of the situation as though he’s a king who chose not to exercise powers he has. He is a weak and stupid guy who thought exactly that and has now learned that’s not true.

    “Trump said something in a phone call that might be interpreted as something that he never carried out anyway.”
    Again, we’re way past that one phone call. No one reasonable is seeing that phone call as anything more than just one event in a combination of things Trump and his appointees did. It has to be considered together with everything else.

    Trump did carry it out – he froze the aid to Ukraine, which the Ukrainians were aware of and concerned about. The aid was only released on Sep 11, after Trump got caught, and negotiations with Ukrainians about what they needed to do for aid to be resumed lasted through early September. Those are facts corroborated by multiple witnesses on record.

    Gordon Sondland, Trump’s donor and EU ambassador, was tasked with getting Ukrainians to publicly reopen those investigations for Trump. In his testimony he denied any knowledge of quid pro quo. After Taylor and other testified, he amended his testimony to not be charged with perjury. Here’s a link to all of it. Scroll down to page 377 of 379 for his amendments. Point 5 of that section: he says he now recalls telling Mr Yermak, Zelensky’s aide, on Sep 1 in Warsaw, that “resumption of U.S. aid would likely not occur until Ukraine provided the public anti-corruption statement that we had been discussing for many weeks”.

    Have you heard the latest news? Trump spoke to Sondland on July 26, the day after his phone call with Zelensky, while Sondland was in a Kyiv restaurant. Sondland held the phone away from his ear because Trump was too loud, so people around him heard what Trump said. Trump asked him if Zelensky would do the investigations. The people who were with Sondland are now testifying about those events.

    Do you think this is all a conspiracy, with all the witnesses who testified making up and coordinating their lies? Do you think Sondland amended his testimony to start lying to protect himself? I’m not asking about what Obama did, or how dangerous whatever Trump did is to the US. I’m talking about what actually happened in summer of 2019, and how it could possibly be described as one phone call where Trump said something vague and never did anything anyway.

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    1. cliff arroyo Avatar
      cliff arroyo

      “Have you heard the latest news? ”

      Bottom line, even if he’s impeached, there’s little chance of Trump being removed from office and this whole sad dog and pony show will probably result in people turning away from the Democrats in 2020… his approval ratings have gone up since the hearings began…. if the democrats had any sense they’d withdraw from this as quickly as they can.

      But they seem intent on throwing this election (the way the republicans threw the election in 2008 with McCain) and maybe in losing the house?

      best hot take I’ve seen:

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    2. Clarissa Avatar
      Clarissa

      Aside from the rhetoric, the Trump administration has proven to be as pro-open borders as the Obama, Bush, Clinton, previous Bush and Reagan administrations. Kushner, who is handling Trump’s immigration policy, is a fanatical neoliberal. Anybody who can even remotely be described as a nationalist or an anti-globalist was thrown out on their asses 2,5 years ago.

      The only question of any interest here is why irrespective of whoever you vote for, you get identical neoliberal policies of open borders that crush labor and destroy welfare. Everything else is a meaningless ridiculous show aimed at distracting us from the fact that Trump, Adam Schiff, Pelosi, McConnell, Kushner, Buttigieg, etc are on the same side. And that side is the opposite of ours. And that side is winning for as long as we take this charade seriously.

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  8. johnsmith7456 Avatar
    johnsmith7456

    Looks like you were wrong

    Republicans fear Trump’s attack on Yovanovitch ‘backfired’: CNN’s Jim Acosta

    On Monday’s edition of CNN’s “The Situation Room,” senior White House correspondent Jim Acosta reported that Republicans on Capitol Hill are worried that President Donald Trump’s Twitter attack on former Ukraine Ambassador Marie Yovanovitch during her public testimony in the impeachment hearing only hurt his cause.

    “The president will be back to keeping an eye on the impeachment inquiry as the public hearings get underway,” said Acosta. “Mr. Trump’s fellow Republicans are hopeful he will cease his targeting of administration officials who are testifying. As one Trump campaign source told me over the weekend about the president’s attacks late last week, it was not a, quote, ‘good day for the GOP.’ There are a lot of Republicans who feel like that backfired.”

    Lots of Republicans who feel like it backfired.

    https://www.rawstory.com/2019/11/republicans-fear-trumps-attack-on-yovanovitch-backfired-cnns-jim-acosta/

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    1. Clarissa Avatar
      Clarissa

      Wrong about what? That Jim Acosta is an ass? That congressional Republicans are asses? That Yovanovitch is an ass?

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      1. johnsmith7456 Avatar
        johnsmith7456

        Ah, if she’d had screamed and acted out her rage, you’d be praising her to the heavens right now.

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        1. Clarissa Avatar
          Clarissa

          No, I’d praise her if she acted in a dignified way.

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          1. johnsmith7456 Avatar
            johnsmith7456

            That’s what I saw. She didn’t ask to testify, it was required of her.

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A conservative literary critic and college professor

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