My flight to Spain was cancelled but it’s OK, I’m rebooked, it will be fine. The observation I want to make is that I’ve been mulling around the JFK airport and the airport hotel, and it’s become clear to me that immigration levels in this country are utterly unsustainable.
There needs to be an immediate pause in any form of immigration until those who are already here get absorbed. People take a long time to integrate. They don’t know how things work in the new country. Unless they are surrounded by the overwhelming majority of locals who model the accepted behavior, they’ll never find out and the existing behavioral models of gentility, politeness and kindness that make America America will disappear. I had no idea how to behave as an American either when I first arrived. It took years to absorb the norms.
For the first time in all my years in America, the orderly disembarkation from a flight yesterday was broken by people unwilling to wait for their turn, trampling over passengers in front of them, shoving aside elderly passengers. Not in an aggressive way but with a beaming smile of people who sincerely have no idea that this is not how things are done. Women in hijabs and saris were waving American passports and acting in ways no native-born American would act. A Dominican guy driving everybody up a wall, conducting a conversation over loudspeaker on a small airport shuttle. A Colombian woman cutting into the front of the line and becoming aggressive when the receptionist explained that you have to wait for your turn. Native-borns are too polite to say anything to stop this behavior, so they suffer stoically, which feels very symbolic of the entire situation.
Clarissa's Blog 
“existing behavioral models of gentility, politeness and kindness that make America America will disappear”
They still exist at all? As a child and younger person I sometimes took Greyhound (or similar) to visit relatives and I remember a pretty civil experience. The (integrated by then) passengers dressed up a bit and mostly sat in silence or read or talked in relatively quiet voices. Then, while visiting from Poland (when I no longer had a car) I found myself on buses again but the civility was long gone. People were dressed like slobs and behavior was… not pleasant. At one point a driver stopped to yell at a passenger to get her kids under control (no escalation to yelling it was the opening move). This was decades ago and the decline was very noticeable. I even remember a couple of times in the 90s when I would go back to the US I was disillusioned by how much worse things had gotten just in a year or so…. Then I kind of stopped going back
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There’s always an occasional weirdo or antisocial person. But what I’ve seen in these past two days is new to me. I haven’t been to New York for a long time, so I didn’t observe the gradual change. It’s disturbing to arrive at the tail end of the replacement and see what it looks like.
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This in no way invalidates your point, but what makes you think those people actually want to integrate and become Americans (rather than American passport holders)? My sense–although I’m speaking from a Canadian experience–is that they are perfectly fine just continuing totally untouched by the American way of life. All they want is indoor plumbing and a few other perks that living in the US (or Canada) brings. (The problem, of course, is that there is indoor plumbing in the US partly because the Americans behave differently from what you describe.)
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I actually agree and I’m the child of immigrants myself, my parents were Cuban refugees. I’ve encountered loads of people from other countries who want to have American citizenship and American goodies without being Americans, they just want stuff and actually loathe regular Americans.
They often act like the people at the airport and think American norms are fake and racist and repressive, they’re actually proud of being rude and assholes because “it’s their culture”. This is why I don’t associate with Hispanic people and I feel at ease around hipster white people, the hipsters are very liberal but have basic manners and American cultural norms
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It doesn’t matter what they want as long as the numbers aren’t too high. A group absorbs an individual. Not at once and not easily, but the group dominates. A group of fifty can absorb one very effectively within several years. But a group of fifty can’t absorb 30 without a lot of strife and problems. It can’t absorb a group of 40 at all.
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In my experience, orderly exits from airplanes are not the norm, irrespective of who the passengers are.
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I think it’s a matter of perspective. I grew up elsewhere, which is why I can appreciate how downright miraculous North Americans’ behavior on different forms of transportation is.
When we first moved to Canada, relatives who had been there for a while would purposefully drive us by bus stops to see Canadians line up for the bus in an orderly line. To us, it was like seeing aliens from another planet.
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“In my experience, orderly exits from airplanes are not the norm”
Where are you from Barnyard land?
In my memory departures were generally orderly and flights I’ve been on in the last 20 years or so (mostly, but not entirely, from or to Poland) are generally more orderly than not.
Polish people have a habit of standing to get off the second the plane stops but then they just stand and there’s no pushing and shoving to be first off the plane or shoving through passport control (though the last time I flew out of or into Schengen was…. 2016? A while ago….
In Cyprus once a plane full of Greeks were behind the passengers from my flight and one guy started yelling but the reactions of other Greeks indicated he was being funny rather than crazy or threatening…
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Yes, Cliff, Barnyard Land. Got it in one guess.
Honestly.
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“Honestly”
Yes, it’s exasperating. If a person mentions a systemic problem caused by mass immigration some liberal is sure to pipe up with one of the following:
-natives do worse!
-it was already broken
-good! it’s what you deserve!
Pick a new card, the “natives are terrible” one is worn out.
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Sorry, Cliff—as soon as kindness and compassion get old, the bad guys win.
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”worn out,” I should say. When kindness and compassion get worn out.
OT: No kings.
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“When kindness and compassion get worn out.”
There is absolutely no kindness, nor compassion, by anybody supporting the intake of massive numbers of illegal aliens that will not only lower the wages of your fellow citizens but undermine all social services. Fortunately, there is an effective training device ;-D
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“as soon as kindness and compassion get worn out”
But who do you think you’re being kind and compassionate two when you counter any negative effect of mass-immigration with ‘natives are bad/worse’?
You’re not being kind or compassionate to your fellow citizens, many of whome face a degraded social situation (not to mention the horrific crimes committed by some that Biden’s open border let in).
You’re also not being kind of compassionate to those who immigrate for reasons that even they cannot articulate beyond worrying if they don’t do it now they won’t have a chance later.
You’re posing as a kind and compassionate person while policies you support have very bad effects in the real world.
In other words, you’re not kind and compassionate (on this issue) at all.
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That’s what bugs me the most. Mass migration devastates thf countries of origin of the migrants (eg El Salvador). Absolutely devastates them. Creates horrors beyond imagination. It breaks up families. Young patents torn away from their children. All that’s needed to find out how horrible this is is simply to talk to a few people who experienced it. Mass migration is not a kindness. All anybody has to defend this atrocity is the inane narrative of choice. Nothing else. It’s not kind.
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Breakup of the family is a liberal ideal, though. Through that lens, El Salvador is a success story: everybody’s been totally liberated from family and country, right? They must be so happy, free, and able to be whoever they want to be.
(/sarc)
This makes it doubly ironic that in the liberal worldview, Latinos are the only people who get to have “family” as a core value.
-ethyl
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The “kindness and compassion” depends on correctly identifying what’s at stake and what the issue is. What Clarissa described is not a capital “I” Immigrant Program issue. It’s a goofy goobers who can’t get off a plane properly issue. And as I stated earlier, that’s an international problem (or more accurately, inconvenience)–Barnyard Land has no borders and literally billions of people are willing or unwilling citizens.
This is a problem that can be (largely–nothing is ever completely solved) settled with an instructional video, visually demonstrating an orderly way to get off a plane, to be shown before the flight begins.
Are there big, systemic problems involved with immigration? Sure. This just isn’t one of them. And as we tackle such problems, it’s never a good idea to let fear make the decisions for you. And no, kindness and compassion aren’t enough, either–some wisdom is very helpful. Of course, maybe that latter commodity is in too short supply, but one can hope (a commodity that never runs dry).
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This reminds me how people in Germany show earnest videos to migrants that it’s important to respect women and not rape them. As of now, the videos have produced no positive results.
People have a different culture not because they haven’t seen an instructional video. But because it’s their culture and they enjoy it.
Once men who want to rape women are the majority, what makes you think you’ll be showing videos to them to teach them how to act instead of them showing videos to you to teach you?
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“This reminds me how people in Germany…”
While I see the possibility for immediate comparison, I’m not sure we’re on the right track when we start equating leaving a plane and rape. Some people may indeed want to rape, but nobody wants any trouble entering or leaving their modes of transportation, or even, I suspect, to be the cause of any such trouble.
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According to my grandma, you could *become* somebody from Barnyard Land. It’s a contagion you catch from leaving doors open and whistling in the house.
-ethyl
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Speaking about immigrants, I have absolutely no idea what you, people, are talking about.
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As kids, if we walked through an exterior door and did not close it behind us, the next thing we would hear an adult say is: “Were you born in a barn?”
If we were *really* thoughtless and tracked dirt into the house or whistled indoors, somebody might threaten to send us back to the barn where we belonged.
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““Were you born in a barn?””
The version I remember was “Were you raised in a barn?”
There was also “Get your elbows off the table, this is not a horse’s stable”. Which I don’t understand because horses don’t have elbows…..
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My favorite Ukrainian equivalent is, “Is your father a glassmaker?” for when you are standing in front of somebody and obscuring their view.
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I grew up with the “leaving the door open” barn connection. Not the whistling so much.
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It’s too late anyway.
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People have no idea what they are losing, what they are throwing away. They have no idea at all.
I’ve been physically trampled by a mob running to exit a vehicle. There was no reason to run and create a stampede. It was simply what people did. The memory of people trampling all over me, head, face, body, is unforgettable.
When Americans who have absolutely no inkling of how incredibly lucky they are not to live that way tell me that America always had disorderly transport, I want to sit down and cry.
No, people, you haven’t seen disorder yet. But you are doing everything you can in order to see it so congratulations.
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Ugh. I’m already sad about all the stuff I had when I was a kid, that I can’t offer my kids: stability, a safe neighborhood, good libraries, nearby relatives. They can’t even have pets.
“It gets so much worse” is not what I wanted to hear.
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I don’t mean to be negative, I’m sorry. I’m having two crazy days.
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Okay Kid, I will send some memes to cheer you up…it works sometimes ;-D
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“standing in front of somebody and obscuring their view.”
You make a better wall than a window. (some say ‘door’ instead of wall)
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My family said ‘door’. If you stood around with your mouth open, you’d also be asked if you were trying to catch flies.
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Doors are moveable 😉
-K
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“people in Germany show earnest videos to migrants”
And then illustrated this with drawings of ethnic German women trying to molest disabled male migrants IIRC….
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“nobody wants any trouble entering or leaving their modes of transportation, or even, I suspect, to be the cause of any such trouble”
You sound very sheltered…. in many parts of the world people simply don’t think in those terms.
It’s ‘I want it” with no thought given to others. In some places actively being the cause of such trouble to others is a life goal.
The whole world is not made up of polite mid-westerners…
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Can confirm. During our time in latin america we were baffled by the total unfamiliarity with the concept of queuing. If you wanted anything at the post office desk during a busy time, you pretty much had to elbow your way to the front, or just step aside and wait until there wasn’t anybody else who needed anything (regardless of whether they’d come in before or after you). It’s a wonder they don’t have fatal crushing episodes at *every* futbol game.
This is not the case in East Asia, where we attended several huge, packed Catholic masses, expecting the communion line to take twenty minutes. No, under five. Everybody knows the drill and performs it with quick, silent precision.
-ethyl
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This is a nice picture of the culture change happening in many parts of the world…
https://x.com/AndrewHammel1/status/1980228147728769325
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“settled with an instructional video, visually demonstrating an orderly way to get off a plane”
This only has any chance of working if those targetted care about what others think of them and/or want the acceptance of the local population.
Despite stereotypes pushed relentlessly by the media that is not high on the agenda of most migrants today. And… a lot depends on the country/culture of origin.
People from a culture with thousands of years of recorded history are not likely to be impressed by a video telling them how to behave. Neither are those from a religion that tells them they are superior to other people.
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It’s always the people who insist that diversity is our strength who don’t believe that diversity of anything but physical appearance exists. Any explanation about cultural differences is greeted with scorn. “Surely, you aren’t saying that there are people on the planet who are not exactly like me! Surely you don’t suggest it’s possible for humans to want what I don’t and not value what I do!”
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