The contractor was recommended to me by a friend.
“He’s hard-working, responsible, his prices are very reasonable, but he’s . . . erm. . . kind of. . . well, he’s simple,” she said.
“What do you mean by simple?” I asked.
“Well, you know, simple. You’ll see when you meet him.”
I decided the contractor was intellectually retarded and spoke to him ve-ry slo-o-wly the first time I met him. The contractor probably thought I was the one suffering from retardation.
Today I took a long trip to Lowe’s with the contractor and got an inkling what my friend had actually meant when she warned me he was “simple.”
During the trip, the contractor chose to inform me at length of his feelings about “them black people who run around rampant having all of ’em babies on government dime and buying ’em Air Jordans because they got food stamps ‘n all.”
The good news is that he’s saying “black people”, and that’s something already. The bad news is everything else.
I offered a small lecture on the flawed nature of his approach to race relations and did manage to get him to acknowledge that “some of ’em black kids do want to work and get college degrees and do better for themselves and their families” but I still don’t see him welcoming any black people into the neighborhood any time soon because “wherever they go, they bring crime with ’em and we don’t need no crime round here, no, ma’am.”
Clarissa's Blog 
With all due respect, Clarissa, replace ‘black people’ with ‘MRAs’ or ‘Russians’, and he sounds like you.
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First of all, I don’t say “Russians”, I say “Russuan-speakers.” That’s the group I belong to. And it’s perfectly fine to criticize one’s own group. Notice how whenever I criticize immigrants, I only criticize my own community. Since it’s mine, I’m entitled to criticize it in a way you are not.
MRAs choose to be MRAs while nobody chooses to be black or a Russian-speaker. It’s perfectly fine to criticize dumb choices as opposed to things people don’t control.
So no, he doesn’t sound “like me” at all.
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Sadly, yes it does. How many MRA’s have you met? How many have you questioned? What led them to join such a movement?
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Please, don’t leave comments that say “yes, it does.” I have no idea what this “yes” refers to.
To answer your questions: very many. Very very many. Bad mommy, bad wife, bad feminists (which all means bad mommy). I can commiserate on the mommy issue but only as long as the sufferers don’t confuse it with actual political activism.
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LOL, I believe that my meaning was sufficiently clear, the “yes” follows your “no” immediately above my post ;-D
So, yes, I do believe that your mind is completely closed. I sent you a link to the only MRA group that I know of: A Voice For Men. Did you even look at it?
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I comment through an app and don’t see which comments preceded yours.
I will gladly check out this group but I have to say, it’s weird that a person who hasn’t even taken the trouble to familiarize himself with at least dozen MRA resources would accuse of close-mindedness somebody who has.
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So you recommended to me a website founded by the insane maniac Paul Elam?? Are you fucking serious?
“In 2011, Elam established the site Register-Her.com, which publishes the personal information of women the site claims “have caused significant harm to innocent individuals either by the direct action of crimes like rape, assault, child molestation and murder, or by the false accusation of crimes against others.”[1] While the list includes women who have been sent to prison for various crimes, it also includes others who were acquitted, and some who have not been accused of committing any crime.[1] It also lists any rape victim whose court case results in anything but a full conviction and sentencing as a “false accuser”[2].
The site’s real purpose is for documenting what it terms “anti-male bigotry,” which, in essence, means being female and daring to express an opinion with which men’s rights activists disagree.”
“Elam once accused women who’ve been raped of bringing the crime committed against them upon themselves because “they are stupid (and often arrogant) enough to walk though [sic] life with the equivalent of a [sic] I’M A STUPID, CONNIVING BITCH – PLEASE RAPE ME neon sign glowing above their empty little narcissistic heads.”[5] He has also stated that he would vote to acquit in the event he were called to serve on the jury in a rape trial even if he knew for a fact that the accused were guilty.[6]”
“Elam admitted after the fact to using an unspecified amount of money donated to run A Voice for Men to cover his own personal living expenses.[7] He did not disclose his intention to use some of the money for this purpose to potential donors in advance, only stating that it would go toward “dedicated servers, image royalties, legal fees, internet radio premiums, various kinds of computer and media hardware,” and travel expenses for AVfM-related public appearances.[7] None of this comes as much of a surprise since like the vast majority of men’s rights “activism”, A Voice for Men does basically nothing with concrete real-world civil rights results such as protests, lobbying politicians, buying ad-time on television, or charity work for disadvantaged men.[8]
Also, showing what a great guy he is, he has actually banned people during fundraising events for donating some but not “enough” and once bragged about men in financial trouble giving donations out of their unemployment checks.[7]”
Man, you just slaughtered with using this particular frekazoid as an example of a normal MRA. This is a vicious, woman’hating scam artist. He is proverbial for everything that is wrong with the MRA. Jeez.
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Fair enough, I could have quoted your statement, but I presumed mine followed close enough to be understood. Frankly, I didn’t know there were a dozen MRA groups in North America. The one to which I linked is certainly the largest and best organized. There are numerous MGTOW blogs but they seem angry or saddened, I don’t see the point. There are PUA sites but they seem as vicious as the worst of the feminist blogs. Perhaps the latter two groups are those that you are terming MRA?
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LOL, I don’t know as you should be relying upon the interpretations of David Futrelle aka Manboobz ;-D
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Have you even tried reading the information I provided? Where do you see “interpretations” in it? These are incontrovertible facts of reality. Which of these facts can you dispute with data?
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Of course, I read all of it. None of that list is objective, all are by political activists. Almost all it is interpretation and opinion, some largely based upon fact, those by Futrelle aka Manboobz are not.
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So quotes from Elan were falsified?
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Not necessarily, more likely that they were taken out of context. Elam and Manboobz have a history that predated my interest in either. I wasn’t there to validate or invalidate much of it.
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Who cares about some silly spat? The Elam fellow is a total freak. I read his own words on his own website and it’s just as I said: bad mean feminists ate his puppy. Boring as hell.
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Fair enough, I respect you for looking. We will have to agree to disagree yet once again ;-D
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Is there a reason your friend was afraid to say the other “r” word that he actually was?
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I see it from time to time on the Web that “r,” “a” (antisemitic) and “f” (fascist) words are perceived as “bad”, swear words instead of carrying a specific meaning. Thus, people may engage in the behavior, but protest against being labeled correctly.
And other “nice” people feel more comfortable not to pronounce certain words. After all, if you label it for what it is, you are the unpleasant trouble maker. Uncomfortable questions are raised: should I recommend, use services of and/or be a friend of a racist? (It’s not against you, Clarissa). What should be done?
It’s much easier to “laugh around it.” Or, he is a simple person. No need to say anything to him about the behavior and have a hard conversation.
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“Uncomfortable questions are raised: should I recommend, use services of and/or be a friend of a racist? (It’s not against you, Clarissa). What should be done?”
– Since I’m an educator, I know exactly what should be done. 🙂 On a serious note, I don’t think it’s a good strategy to do what many of my colleague do and avoid all contact with “the locals.” If we are as smart and civilized as we think, we need to reach out and build connections with people.
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“After all, if you label it for what it is, you are the unpleasant trouble maker.”
– And now let’s imagine me being stopped by such considerations. . . Nah, it’s not very likely. 🙂
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I’m not sure she knows this side of him exactly. I’ll have to ask and we’ll elaborate a common strategy of getting him on our side. 🙂
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\\ I don’t think it’s a good strategy to do what many of my colleague do and avoid all contact with “the locals.” If we are as smart and civilized as we think, we need to reach out and build connections with people.
I guess it depends on the situation. In general, I am very pessimistic about my ability to reach out and make an antisimitic person stop being one. Here, you aren’t black, so he may be more inclined to listen to you. But imo underneath such adult people will remain racist and/or antisemitic forever, and if the situation is right – will show that. No matter what you say to him. So both you and your colleagues may be right, if doing X makes you feel better.
// I’ll have to ask and we’ll elaborate a common strategy of getting him on our side.
I was surprised to see you are the kind of person, who cares and wants to help so much. From your blog I got the impression you weren’t.
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“I was surprised to see you are the kind of person, who cares and wants to help so much. From your blog I got the impression you weren’t.”
– Racism disturbs me on a profound level so that I can just barely speak about it without tears. And it’s the same with homophobia and transphobia. It’s like a feel the raw suffering of people coming at me in waves when I think about these forms of hatred.
“But imo underneath such adult people will remain racist and/or antisemitic forever, and if the situation is right – will show that. No matter what you say to him. So both you and your colleagues may be right, if doing X makes you feel better.”
– I agree that there are incurable racists. But in the case of this contractor, and so many other people, this is, I’m convinced, a superficial thing that can be addressed. People are afraid of what they don’t know, especially people of limited parochial worldviews. They just need some exposure and these irrational thoughts will start getting displaced by actual living impressions. I shared with the contractor the story of my “I’m from East St. Louis, ma’am, nothing is too hard” student and I could see that he heard it. Obviously, he isn’t cured of racism or anything but it’s something. All that white folks from around here get to listen to are stories of “hooded thugs on food stamps.” But what if they heard different stories as well?
At least, I’m trying to do something.
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\\ – Racism disturbs me on a profound level so that I can just barely speak about it without tears. And it’s the same with homophobia and transphobia.
Antisemitism disturbs me, and exactly because of that I would keep as far as possible from such people. I am not saying you’re wrong. Just that people may have different ways of reacting to feelings.
// – I agree that there are incurable racists. But in the case of this contractor, and so many other people, this is, I’m convinced, a superficial thing that can be addressed. People are afraid of what they don’t know, especially people of limited parochial worldviews. They just need some exposure and these irrational thoughts will start getting displaced by actual living impressions.
So, is antisemitism of many people also ” a superficial thing”? I never visited US, can’t talk about racism, but can about antisemitism. Shouldn’t the same logic apply for both?
Btw, “Why 1814 should tell us more than 1914 about 2014.” refers to Israel and USA’s role. Does it sound as something I could live to see?
What America could meaningfully do in the Middle East, with its unique diplomatic convening power, is to support the creation of a genuine regional security order, one that outlasts America’s commitments in the region (which should decrease commensurate with the ebbing of its reliance on Mideast energy supply) and remains robust in the face of Chinese encroachment. This would require bringing Turkey, Iran, Saudi Arabia, and Israel into the same institutional fold.
This proposal, known presently as the “Gulf Security Conference”, has been widely discussed in inter-governmental fora such as the IISS Manama Dialogue. It has never been taken seriously by U.S. officials, however, on the grounds that neither Israel nor the Arabs trust Iran. But the time for these neighbors to pretend they inhabit different continents has passed. “Balancing” Iran has been code for attempting to freeze time, yet it has merely meant wasting it—decades of it.“Balancing” Iran has been code for attempting to freeze time, yet it has merely meant wasting it—decades of it. No state should rely permanently on America as a crutch, nor should America endlessly drain its treasury in the name of an offshore balancing policy that incentivizes belligerence. Geography is still destiny. These four regional anchors should be urged to encourage organic bridges to form across the region—like the Ottoman Hejaz Railway, which connected Istanbul to Mecca, with a branch to Haifa—as they did back when the Vienna Concert spelled the rules of civilized conduct among nations. But they won’t do it without American prodding.
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“So, is antisemitism of many people also ” a superficial thing”? I never visited US, can’t talk about racism, but can about antisemitism. Shouldn’t the same logic apply for both?”
– Oh yes, absolutely. My mother once caught a group of her students using the word “жид” as in insult. So she stopped them and asked, “Do you know my husband, uncle Misha? Do you like him?”
“Yes!” the students yelled.
“So let me tell you why it is very offensive to him – and to me – when you use this word.”
Then she told them a short version of the suffering of the Jews, getting the kids to cry. And that was it for their irreflective anti-semitism. These were kids from the families where every other father was incarcerated, often for murdering the mother, so you can imagine the kind of environment. The kids just picked up the word without thinking what it might mean.
“This would require bringing Turkey, Iran, Saudi Arabia, and Israel into the same institutional fold. . . These four regional anchors should be urged to encourage organic bridges to form across the region—like the Ottoman Hejaz Railway, which connected Istanbul to Mecca, with a branch to Haifa.”
– That’s exactly what I’ve been saying. Hallelujah! Saudi Arabia is there already, Turkey is, too. Now all that’s left is Iran and I’m convinced it’s doable. Iran can be turned around, I know it can.
I’m not at all knowledgeable about Saudi Arabia, so I’m not venturing any opinions. But Turkey, Bahrain, Qatar, UAE, Pakistan, and Iran can become the pillars of regional peace and civilizational advances.
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The area in which you are living doesn’t have a great history in terms of race relations. Look closely and you’ll see a lot more of this. My experience there.
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Oh yes. I’m seeing it a lot.
I remember that you are familiar with my school (which shall not be named), right?
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“Almost all it is interpretation and opinion, some largely based upon fact, those by Futrelle aka Manboobz are not.”
I’ve visited Futrelle’s site. His posts include links to the MRA writers he excerpts; he doesn’t quote them without finding links to their writing. You can then follow the links and see for yourself exactly what they write – the whole of it, on their own sites – in addition to reading the (often long) excerpts on his. So, I don’t see what the claims of “out of context” or “not based on facts” are based on.
The funny thing is, he’ll sometimes get MRAs in his comments telling him the same thing you are, and he often asks them to explain the context he’s apparently missing or give him a more favorable interpretation that makes sense in light of what many of them are actually saying or supporting. Maybe you can do a better job than they do in trying to explain… but the writing is all there. You can hop off of Futrelle’s site and see it in all its glory. No excerpts anymore. No “out of context.”
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I did not know that, I’ll take a look. Thank you.
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Have to say that I am not having any success finding the original rape discussion on Elam that Manboobz was talking about..that is the kind of context that worried me.
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I did a spot of googling and found a Manboobz roundup:
The post on always voting ‘not guilty’ in a rape trial is still on A Voice For Men; you can click through where it says “original post here” (shortly under the header: Paul Elam on Why He Would Vote to Acquit All Rapists)
The post on narcissistic bitches asking to be raped might have been taken down by Elam, but Futrelle found a copy through the Internet Wayback Machine and also links to it.
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Thanks, but I am a senior citizen, and I am still not finding that original post. It may drive Clarissa nuts but I am a scientist, when I have doubts, I need to see the raw numbers, not the conclusion ;-D
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Here’s the rape acquittal post, straight from A Voice For Men: http://www.avoiceformen.com/mens-rights/false-rape-culture/jury-duty-at-a-rape-trial-acquit/
I get that some seniors aren’t computer-savvy, but you do comment here regularly and I assumed you could have scrolled down the initial post I provided. That post, by the way, is full of raw numbers in the form of links directly to Elam’s writing, so I’m sure you’ll be eager to click on it anyway and go through it all.
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Well, this is not the discussion that I was searching, but rather when Elam supposedly suggested that women’s behavior were somehow deserving of rape. Personally, I have no problem in using my own ability in discerning guilt, innocence, or insufficient evidence to make any judgment. So I disagree with his decision on that matter.
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I’m uncomfortable linking repeatedly from Clarissa’s blog to AVFM. The original link I posted has exactly what you’re looking for: http://wehuntedthemammoth.com/2013/10/18/paul-elam-of-a-voice-for-men-in-his-own-words/
Seriously, scroll down to the second header, entitled: Paul Elam on rape.
There, you’ll find the links embedded in the paragraph that says: “Elam, apparently trying to project a more respectable image, has replaced the original A Voice for Men post containing these passages with a disingenuous disclaimer. But the Internet never forgets. An archived copy of the original post can be found through the Wayback Machine here. The quote is not any better in context.”
You can do this, sir. I believe in you. In fact, consider it an exercise in becoming more computer-savvy as a senior citizen.
Also, I think it’s awesome that you’re able to reach a polite disagreement with Paul Elam on his encouraging people to vote ‘not guilty’ at every rape trial regardless of the evidence. I guess that’s something you’ll have to ‘agree to disagree’ on with him. Maybe you’ll be able to bond over other things, like recipes for squash soup.
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Hkatz, I truly admire your dedication to these important educational endeavors. I have noticed, however, that all the reason and logic in the world can’t persuade those who choose to think that MRAs stand for something useful.
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Believe me, I don’t intend to become a full-time educator on these matters 🙂
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Quit the nonsense, I wish to see the entire discussion, not the pre-selected highlights. I do not mean to be disingenuous, I am adept at those computer areas where I earned my living, mostly numbers and statistics, but have limited ability in other areas. But I trusted my late wife to protect my back in such areas, and I do not apologize for that.
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For the last time:
Click on the link I gave you. Scroll down until you find the paragraph I pointed you to.
It’s this paragraph (under the header “Paul Elam on rape” and under the excerpt that follows):
“Elam, apparently trying to project a more respectable image, has replaced the original A Voice for Men post containing these passages with a disingenuous disclaimer. But the Internet never forgets. An archived copy of the original post can be found through the Wayback Machine here. The quote is not any better in context.”
This paragraph contains the links to the “full discussion” you say you’re looking for (As I said, I’m not going to keep linking to AVFM from Clarissa’s high-traffic blog.)
Someone who reads and comments on blog posts as much as you do here shouldn’t find this impossible.
Good night and good luck.
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hkatz
Than you, found it. His “disingenuous disclaimer” actually renders his discussion seem rather cruel but ultimately honest.
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I’ve been getting too many upvotes lately and it’s making me uncomfortable. So… time to remedy that.
“Simple” in the context given means “does not have appropriate social filters”. He’ll say what ‘everyone’ believes in any context. It sounds like a step up from ‘common’ (several steps up from ‘trash’ in the white southern caste system) but still below ‘one of us’.
And…. he’s kind of right. Blacks are overrepresented on both the welfare and crime rolls. Working class whites are more likely to bear the brunt of the social dysfunction within US black society so of course he’s going to be cautious.
““some of ‘em black kids do want to work and get college degrees and do better for themselves and their families”
And many of them don’t. Education for the sake of education divorced from material consequences (EFSE) is not (and has never been AFAICT) a strong value among African Americans. But EFSE is one of the strongest predictors of social well being.
As for MRAs, I see a similar situation with nationalism in Europe. Idiotic elites in Europe have done their best to erase all nationalism from the positive values of Europeans. They succeeded in making moderate and reasonable forms of nationalism unfashionable and are now surprised that this created a vacuum for the more unsavory forms to take root and grow (similar to how making black anti-semitism a taboo topic in the US succeeding it letting it fester and grow in the underground*).
US feminism achieved its principal goals many, many years ago and has been looking for a mission and basically failing. This is one reason why the folks at feministing and shakesville are so pathetic and retrograde and resemble Betty Draper more than Germaine Greer.
And feminism (whose classic values went mainstream years ago) never succeeded in formulating any kind of coherent vision of masculinity or the concerns of men as a class (except to occasionally complain that it’s a shame that men aren’t more like women). It’s no wonder that many men retreat into parodies of traditional masculinity.
*http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/volokh-conspiracy/wp/2014/02/19/entrenched-anti-semitic-views-very-rare-among-whites-and-asian-americans-common-among-blacks-and-latinos/
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\\ similar to how making black anti-semitism a taboo topic in the US succeeding it letting it fester and grow in the underground
Black anti-semitism? Do you mean one of Muslim and/or Arab immigrants? If so, I am not surprised. In Muslim countries antisemitism levels are horrifying (old one gets strengthened even further by Middle East conflict).
In the beginning I missed the word “black” and thought you meant that making being antisemitic “undecent” in polite society lets it fester in the underground. In this case, I prefer pressuring antisemiths to shut up to creating a welcoming environment for their propaganda.
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“Do you mean one of Muslim and/or Arab immigrants?”
No. I mean regular (US born for several generations) Blacks in the US. It’s most famous among th Nation of islam (not ‘real’ muslims, see link below) but IME it’s much wider than traditionally reported (and reflexive anit-Jewish feelings are very well established among many black intellectuals, especially those of a separatist or africanist bent).
an intro:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nation_of_islam
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/African_American%E2%80%93Jewish_relations#Black_anti-semitism
“I prefer pressuring antisemiths to shut up to creating a welcoming environment for their propaganda”
You either debate things in the public square or encourage nasty stuff to ferment and grow underground.
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“I’ve been getting too many upvotes lately and it’s making me uncomfortable. So… time to remedy that.”
– Be very careful, people around here are very contrarian and they will upvote you just to annoy. 🙂
““Simple” in the context given means “does not have appropriate social filters”. He’ll say what ‘everyone’ believes in any context. It sounds like a step up from ‘common’ (several steps up from ‘trash’ in the white southern caste system) but still below ‘one of us’.”
– This is obviously a class issue.
“Blacks are overrepresented on both the welfare and crime rolls. Working class whites are more likely to bear the brunt of the social dysfunction within US black society so of course he’s going to be cautious.”
– “Simple people” react to the situation with “being cautious.” And nothing ever changes. The less simple folks begin to wonder what makes the situation so pervasive and unchanging. The latter perceive the country as theirs and want it to get better. The former are incapable of a higher degree of abstraction and see everything in terms of their village. As a result, they vote for pre-modern delusions that sound comforting.
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\\ Be very careful, people around here are very contrarian and they will upvote you just to annoy.
Done!
Btw, I’ve been thinking whether to upvote previously. Not because of necessary agreeing, but because of appreciating interesting discussion. 🙂
\\ The less simple folks begin to wonder what makes the situation so pervasive and unchanging.
What? I don’t think it’s only racism. It’s also home (poverty) culture. What whites can do about that?
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“Btw, I’ve been thinking whether to upvote previously. Not because of necessary agreeing, but because of appreciating interesting discussion.”
– And that’s the most legitimate reason to upvote. We’d all die of boredom here if everybody always agreed about everything.
“It’s also home (poverty) culture. What whites can do about that?”
– In my region, specifically, there is something that could be done today. We could stop opposing the MetroLink train line being brought to our town from St. Louis. This would make it so much easier for black students to come to our university and our local (really good!) community college. This would help erode ghettoization. This would make it easier for black people to actually get to places where there are jobs. We could also start voting against cutting funding to my university because my school is doing really, really important work in East St. Louis. East St. Louis is one of the most dangerous and poverty-stricken areas (if not the most) in the entire country. And my university works with little kids in that area to get them engaged in educational clubs, extra-curricular pursuits, trying to get them to stay in school – and it works! We need a chance to bring more black students to our university. But the students need grants to pay for the education.
There is so much that could be done.
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“Education for the sake of education divorced from material consequences (EFSE) is not (and has never been AFAICT) a strong value among African Americans.”
– And it’s obvious why that is. When you live in a slum, any consideration but moving out of the slum is going to be far removed from your worldview. Back in Ukraine, I also detested the idea of education for the sake of education and only cared about making money.
“US feminism achieved its principal goals many, many years ago and has been looking for a mission and basically failing.”
– Feminism has achieved all of its goals in the field of law-making. However, the greatest battles – which are the ones that lie in the area of mentality – are yet to be won.
“This is one reason why the folks at feministing and shakesville are so pathetic and retrograde and resemble Betty Draper more than Germaine Greer.”
– They got the rights part, but are balking at accepting the attendant responsibilities part.
“And feminism (whose classic values went mainstream years ago) never succeeded in formulating any kind of coherent vision of masculinity or the concerns of men as a class”
– Feminism can’t possibly do that because the underlying basic idea of feminism is that masculinity and femininity are meaningless artificial constructs.
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‘This is one reason why the folks at feministing and shakesville are so pathetic and retrograde and resemble Betty Draper more than Germaine Greer.’
– In actually wish they at least resembled Betty Draper who does have a strong personality. On those websites, the amount of whining and moaning is nothing like what we’ve seen from Betty. Not that I’m a fan of this character.
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// When you live in a slum, any consideration but moving out of the slum is going to be far removed from your worldview.
The thing is you earned money in Ukraine, while blacks in US don’t move out of slums. Don’t know how much they consider moving, but it’s not working and they see it, no?
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“The thing is you earned money in Ukraine, while blacks in US don’t move out of slums.”
– For now – and this is what I’m seeing in my own region – the only way of leaving the slum physically is if you have a car. And where do you go if the “simple folks” view you with suspicion and don’t want to rent housing to you?
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// You either debate things in the public square or encourage nasty stuff to ferment and grow underground.
How do you debate “Jews are crafty” or “We are the victims of a Jewish conspiracy to colonize our land and rob our resources”? (*)
I don’t think everybody and everything can or should be debated with. For instance, the refusal to debate with people who use “n—” word for blacks was a necessary step in the fight against racism.
// reflexive anit-Jewish feelings are very well established among many black intellectuals
Is it true for Christian blacks too? If yes, what are the reasons, in your eyes?
As for Muslims born in US, I am not surprised. Antisemitic “values” unfortunately pass wonderfully down the generations. And they may see themselves as a part of international Muslim community, thus feeling connection to Palestinian side of the conflict. The number of generations in USA doesn’t have to matter, a person may be a convert to Islam and feel so.
(*) In Hungary in 2012 in 2012, Jobbik MP Marton Gyyongyosi called for the registration of Jews with double citizenship (Hungarian and Israeli), since, in his opinion, such persons pose a “national security risk,” an accusation repeated by Jobbik president Vona, who called for the screening of all Jewish MPs and government members. That same year, Sandor Porzse, a prominent member of the party, told a French website that Hungarians were the victims of “a Jewish conspiracy to colonize our land and rob our resources.”
http://www.jpost.com/Opinion/Op-Ed-Contributors/Hungarys-dangerous-precedent-359334
My ‘favorite’ quote is “leaders [of Jobbik] speak openly about “Gypsy crime,” and their hopes of establishing ghettos for Roma “deviants.””
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Anti-Semitism is such a non-issue in the US (especially compared to racism) that I don’t even see the point of discussing it. Every other doctor, professor or a successful business person is a Jew while every other black person lives in a slum.
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I wondered why Jobbik is so centered on Roma and found:
Romani people in Hungary
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romani_people_in_Hungary
Turns out they are the largest minority in the country.(~ 5 -10 % of the total population).
The descriprion reminds of blacks in USA: The separation of Romani children into segregated schools and classeshas been on the rise over the past 15 years. Segregated schools are partly the result of “white flight”. But Romani children are also frequently placed in segregated classes even within “mixed” schools.[…]
Many other Romani children are sent to classes for pupils with learning disabilities. The percentage of Romani children in special schools rose from about 25% in 1975 to 42% in 1992[…]
Much of the Romani population are quite poor. They are not provided with fair and equal access to educational resources, resulting in high unemployment, and the perpetual cycle of poverty that keeps them from social mobility
As for the Jews: Most estimates about the number of Jews in Hungary range from 50,000 to 150,000; intermarriage rates are around 60%. (On the other hand, only 12,871 people declared Jewish religion in the census of 2001).
So, if you are a poor minority, you are a criminal. If you value education and succeed, you conspire to “colonize our land”, even if you are 0.1% of the population. (According to the 2011 census about religion, now there probably are even less Jews).
Btw, I think most white people in USA don’t want black community to succeed, lest it “colonizes” something or “steals our middle class jobs”.
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