The true leader of these extreme MAGAs I’m talking about is clearly an FBI operation. It’s quite smart because it keeps them from voting and soothes their sky-high anxiety through the narrative of a worldwide benevolent force called “the White Hats” that controls everything and ensures that everything will turn out right. Every state has this kind of counterintelligence (or Deep State, as Americans call it) operations to keep the most disaffected and high-anxiety segments in check.
Here’s what worries me, though. The Q-Anon MAGAs have a left-wing counterpart. This far-far-left is, in many ways, identical to the far-far-right. They even believe in some of the exact same things. One of these things is the global Jewish conspiracy led by the Rothschilds that the White Hats (or the world revolutionaries, in the far-far-left imaginary) are battling and will eventually defeat. Both groups believe that the US is the heart of world evil because it either was turned into a corporation (far-far-right) or because it’s the source of capitalism (far-far-left). Both groups are very high-anxiety. But I’ve never seen any traces of a counterintelligence operation aimed at controlling and channeling into something less angry this far-far-left MAGA type. I didn’t see it 20 years ago and I don’t see it now.
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Clarissa, I appreciate your points, but this one here just seems like pure deflection to minimize the true damage that Trump has done. As I’ve been saying all along, it’s the constant attacks against fellow Americans and institutions, while riling up unstable people that is the true damage.
This “Lin Wood is an FBI plant” angle sounds like pure deflection to avoid confronting objective reality.
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“the true damage that Trump has done”
Oh, please, for the love of god… give up on your Trump obsession… he doesn’t care about you and never will…
He is not some major existential threat to democracy… he tapped into energy that no other candidate could be arsed to notice but everyone (except for democrat Trump devotees) has moved on.
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Hey man, this whole thread is about the MAGA movement that Trump started and still leads, what did you expect?
“He is not some major existential threat to democracy… he tapped into energy that no other candidate could be arsed to notice but everyone (except for democrat Trump devotees) has moved on.”
You’re absolutely wrong about that. The problem is he WON’T go away and a significant enough number of people want him to stay. I’m not complaining though, shit’s gonna be interesting with the Republican party and I’m just here for the popcorn :sunglasses:
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He didn’t start it, he gave the name to it. But they existed from back in 2008, at least. He doesn’t lead them today, as I explained.
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” they existed from back in 2008″
That’s about when I began listening to Alex Jones and the like for a few years (my favorite was a Canadian who claimed Angela Merkel was Hitler’s daughter and that Prince William was the Antichrist).
Anyway, behind the surface crazy (which I think was camouflage…) the rough outlines of a very big and very sincere populist movement could easily be perceived (far bigger than when I had last had contact with it in the early 1990s which was bigger then than when I first became aware of them in the late 1970s….).
Rush Limbaugh had tapped into it in the period of his most dramatic growth, but he wasn’t a populist but rather a very conventional republican and he couldn’t hold onto them…
Jones had them for a while and then Trump tapped into them and became president but didn’t build a wall and couldn’t hold onto them.
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So… are we talking about the same group of people who published documentaries about Waco and Ruby Ridge, and were involved in the quickly-coopted militia movement?
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“are we talking about the same group of people who published ”
I think they’re separate but largely overlapping groups… I had a very leftwing liberal friend who was furious and spitting fire about Waco sounding like a militia member and ended up exploring the underground then (you needed a special type of radio to get some their broadcasts but I forget the details). At one point we drove 50 or so miles to visit a broadcasting station/bookstore…
This friend never took big parts of it seriously but was fascinated by its existence and thought it was largely hopeful.
Back over a decade earlier when I was working for a newspaper the newspaper received (without asking for it) Spotlight a seminal publication. It was mostly nasty trash – very racist and anti-semitic but it was also the first time I heard of things like the tri-lateral commission or the Bilderbergers… The early 90s version had shed most, not all, of the racist rhetoric (and the anti-semitic stuff has morphed together with other weirdness IIRC and not the classic model anymore).
Of course a lot of it goes back to the 1950s and the John Birch society but I’m not that clear on the very early stuff (and might go back further than that for all I know).
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I’ve not seen anything racial at all from this group but there’s definitely a profound obsession with Jews. And the Chinese. China looms very large for these people, although I can’t figure out why.
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hah! I got halfway through that reply and I was like “Wait, is he gonna say this is a reincarnation of John Birch??”
But OK, yeah, I’ve bumped up against that thing, whatever it is, back in the 90s.
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I only started noticing after 2008 and got interested on a deep level in late 2020 when two of my friends (both in academia) joined the movement.
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He didn’t even give it the name, he vastly popularized, energized, and took it to another level. But we’re talking semantics at this point.
And I disagree with you. Lin Wood is a nobody without a following or any real power. The one with the power is Trump.
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Exactly. Trump absolutely did not create MAGAs. And it’s really interesting to me how when you talk to hardcore MAGAs (which I’ve done and wrote this post as a result), the frequency with which they mention Trump and the passion they put into the topic is about 2% of what a regular Democrat does.
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These things are never about one single evildoer who creates a problem. This is a much larger phenomenon, and if you talk to true MAGAs, you’ll see that Trump isn’t that interesting to them. He was at some point but he’s not anymore.
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“Lin Wood”
I’m so far out of the crazy conspiracy loop that I don’t think I’ve ever heard of him (or remember him from when I was hip deep in it).
Does he have a media platform or is he a hermit king speaking from behind a curtain at irregular intervals?
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I’ll answer in a separate email because I think this is important but it’s never mentioned anywhere.
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Loopy-sounding lawyer who showed up in the middle of the election-fraud fracas and filed some lawsuits, re: the 2020 election.
Does that guy actually still have a platform?
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Oh yes. He has a very passionate following.
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Huh. I remember at the time he seemed like either a con artist or a schizo, maybe a little of both. But if he was a feebie that might explain the weird vibe.
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I totally think he’s a feeb. He’s trying too hard, with the cowboy hat, the preaching, the Bible quotes. This is how feebs imagine a religious Southerner and it looks like a ham-fisted parody.
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And the paid events are a total Ponzi scheme. You get to pay more and more for the hope of being in a smaller room with him where he might notice you. But he might fail to show up because he’s fighting forces of evil someplace else, and then you have to pay more.
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FWIW I never once thought he was a southerner. Where does he say he’s from?
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How long do you think it’s been an FBI op? I mean, clearly the Q thing always has been some kind of COINTELPRO type BS. But I can’t help thinking back to the 90s militia movement and how rapidly that got infiltrated by the alphabet agencies– but that was before the internet. Is Q just… the same alphabet-agency operation, retooled for the internet age?
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“… the narrative of a worldwide benevolent force called ‘the White Hats’ that controls everything …”
It’s mostly code.
Normally I’d tell you as Alice in Wonderland that you are too short for this part of Wonderland, and that you’ve had too much to drink and eat, but what the hell …
Throughout Q’s long history, there have been subtle references to the Office of Naval Intelligence (ONI) and to the Director of National Intelligence (DNI).
For a long period since World War II, various intelligence agencies, domestic and foreign, have been fighting a turf war within the US while others have been attempting a George Kennan-like policy of containment over those agencies.
So what’s the code?
Navy sailors wear white hats.
Some of the pictures in the past would be congruous with the DNI during the Trump regime, for instance.
But there are several pictures that are not congruous with anything at all.
They contain pictures of objects or references to objects that should not exist.
That doesn’t eliminate the possibility that they were made at great cost as “bespoke craft items”.
I wouldn’t believe for a second that the US Navy, hosted on a fleet of floating targets, is all that much of an entity that controls everything.
But they may control enough of a specific situation.
This too is mostly code.
Maybe you’ll figure it out.
OOOH PLANE GOES SMACK
HURRY QUICK, GET THE GOLD
🙂
Ah, methylethyl: “I can’t help thinking back to the 90s militia movement and how rapidly that got infiltrated by …”
What if someone told you that movement was already compromised and was a base of operations for an emergent “backwoods socialist movement”?
In 2022 maybe you have your doubts, or maybe it’s old news to you.
But what if someone told you that in 1992?
Would you actually believe it?
OH WAIT … this is about Lin Wood?
AHAHAHAHA HAHAHAH HAHAHAH HA
And you think this is the only one?
Do tell! 🙂
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They study the movements of troops on the US territory. There was a big drama about a year ago about the supposed presence of “UN helicopters” in the US that were taking over military bases. But then it seems like they finally decided these were the good guys posing as UN troops to confuse the bad guys.
There’s a very complicated narrative behind all this. They have a foundational document in 11 parts, called “Devolution.” I didn’t manage to read it because it’s very complicated and confusing but “Devolution” is where Q and these radical MAGAs come together. It’s their joint recitation of their articles of faith.
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“They study the movements of troops on the US territory.”
OK, then what’s going on north of Chipley, Florida right now?
So many helicopters.
So many interesting names.
So obviously training … but whose training?
You can watch most of the air traffic in the world by having an ADSB Exchange feed.
Process the data through some scripts with a cheap and dirty MySQL database, set up some DB triggers and more scripts to tell you when there’s something that looks unusual … it’s not hard to automate.
Understand that my being a Actual Live Anarchist isn’t some kind of LARP, but as for why I’m leaning that way, let’s just say that the hard swing back the other way is so horrible that it leaves me fundamentally in doubt about mankind’s future.
But when I register to vote but don’t vote and openly tell people I don’t vote, I’m that canary in the coal mine for the jurisdiction of my residence so that fraud detection operations can see whether a known Adversary of the State has come out of hiding to “VOAT HARDRRR”.
Which is what all of the Anarchists in Florida are who have registered to vote, even that Meme Slinger Extraordinaire down in Tampa called Sal the Agorist. His not voting in Tampa can be used as a honey trap for fraudsters.
It’s worth keeping an eye on troop movements when you’re a known Adversary of the State.
Especially the kind of State the Devolution converts want.
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If it’s helicopters, and it’s north of Chipley, it’s probably a pilot training exercise out of Fort Rucker up in Enterprise, AL. The army trains heli pilots there.
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Eh, I haven’t kept up with that scene, and I was like 14 at the time, so… only familiar with it through proxy channels. What I was told by a relative who went to a couple of militia meetings to check it out was, stay away. Lotta sincere guys there, but some obvious plants also, egging on the crazies. And this was Nowheresville… I can only conclude that if the feebies were operating in our completely insignificant neck of the woods darn near the beginning of the thing, that they were either running the show themselves, or had devoted hundreds of assets to it almost as soon as it sprung up. Then of course the feebs got what they wanted at OKC, and the whole thing died.
So what I wonder is– is the whole Q phenomenon just the internet version of the same thing, now? Perhaps even a continuation of the same op? Certainly it would be a good way to pacify the crazies, but also to keep tabs on any emerging personalities capable of organizing a resistance movement.
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It’s even worse than that because the main thrust of this particular operation for 2 years has been to convince people not to vote. These are all potential Republican voters. And we are seeing the results. The Georgia Senate seat was lost in 2020 because these people were told not to vote. They were once again told not to vote in the midterms.
The current target of Lin Wood’s propaganda is Ron DeSantis who is, according to him, a child trafficker who is in cahoots with Disney to traffic minors for sex and worse things.
Who benefits from all this? I think the answer is clear.
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oof. Everybody likes a salacious story, and feeling like an insider, I guess. One does kind of wish that an equal number of the leftie crazies could be persuaded not to vote.
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That’s my whole point? The leftie crazies have many identical beliefs. They are angry, disaffected, and prone to conspiracy theorising. But I’m not seeing a similar operation targeting them. If somebody has, I’m interested in hearing about it.
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Have you noticed what this many indent levels does to viewing these comments on a smaller device?
I’ll restart this in the main because in the words of Dennis Miller, “Stop me before I sub-reference again!” 🙂
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I’m so sorry, I read in the app and don’t see the trees. I’ll try to avoid doing comment trees in the future.
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If you’re an up-and-coming peddler of anomalous information, why would you bother creating a new market for your wares when there’s one you can hijack?
Q isn’t Devolution, but the Q movement such that it was has been hijacked in part by Devolution.
Devolution’s Cliff Notes sale is that the people who believe in it regard the “temporary” institution of a seven-part military regime to be preferable to what they regard as “The Steal”.
That’s not so hard to digest, is it?
So why have the Devolution people created so much text around that core idea?
This is way, way too far for you to go into Wonderland even with that potent food and drink: at the least we’d have to talk about a specific technical vocabulary.
But you can sense what some of them are by analogy with “semantic trees”, although these things aren’t semantic trees at all but are instead a kind of hidden structure that’s revealed and that takes over the framing of concepts around it.
Thus the strategy: overload cognition with a veritable “word salad”, in the manner of Jordan Peterson, so that you can sneak in a structural element that then makes it easier to smuggle in the desired samizdat and have it operate.
Devolution hijacks Q by presenting a model incrementally with hidden structural “arguments” that convince people who would normally be against having their government taken over by a military junta to accept that as somehow better than “The Steal”.
Sometimes the people who get hijacked do something and then release a manifesto about it.
Wasn’t that manifesto of that shooter earlier this year absolutely wild?
If you strip away the beginning and the end, the middle contains most of the memetic payload, which to me was fascinating.
So what’s anomalous about the “anomalous information” then?
It’s mostly meaningless and garbage crap, just like Jordan Peterson’s “word salad”, but it’s structured in such a way that it helps to establish a beach head for more of the same shit that’s prefaced by the correct “headers”.
Reading even some of it without suitable analytical filters, as in reading it out of order, reading it slowly, reading it backwards, taking it apart a paragraph at a time (carefully), and so on, can leave the reader with the feeling of having been sucker punched into some new reality.
This is perceived by the people who receive this “shock linguistic treatment” as a revelation when instead they’ve just been brain hacked.
This is also perceived by people who are relatively healthy as a big ball of mud that someone’s trying to force into the brain.
Essentially this is NLP with memetic and structural elements involved.
Once addicted to this shit, people seek out more of it.
Q as a phenomenon was mildly addictive for attention reasons, but Devolution is a much harder drug.
In 2022, this may seem pretty far fetched.
How will you feel about it in 2052?
THIS IS AN EMERGENCY ACTION MESSAGE
STAND BY FOR SPECIAL CODED CONTENT
Are you getting this now?
Did you ever read Aldous Huxley’s “Island”?
There are loudspeakers all over the island where most of the story takes place that say just one thing: “Attention.”
Not loudly, just enough so it’s there to remind the Good Buddhists of Pala that they should practise their mindfulness.
But what if someone takes that over, turns it into a distraction, and then slips something underneath it?
“So James … what do you do for a living?” 🙂
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“But I’ve never seen any traces of a counterintelligence operation aimed at controlling and channeling into something less angry this far-far-left MAGA type.”
Funny thing about memetic infections: sometimes they’re so potent that they’re transmitted as if they’re valuable information, across generations if need be.
Why would you have to propagandise the Left if they’ve already become victims of a particularly nasty infowar?
“History of Memetic Warfare: Antiquity to Late 21st Century” would be an interesting course to take, am I right? 🙂
Many on the Left are gullible: they want to believe in Socialism because it sounds so attractive, for instance, and many try to resurrect it because they haven’t snogged their preferred One True Socialism yet.
With that success, why not try some of the new techniques on people who like to fool themselves as being Not Like That?
You wouldn’t see the structural parts anyway.
“Hi, I’m totally not here, pay no attention to the cognitive redirect, bye!”
Right. 🙂
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