Update about Vaccines

I talked to my friend who is a pharmaceutical scientist (long experience in the industry, publications, accolades, etc), and here’s what she says.

The Pfizer and Moderna vaccines are something she’d never take herself. It’s a completely new, untested technology that was rushed through without any attempt at following the usual protocols. Nobody has any idea what the long-term effects will be. Pfizer and Moderna are, of course, protected from being sued if you do have adverse effects.

But there’s good news! The Johnson and Johnson vaccine that was approved a couple of days ago isn’t gene therapy, like the Pfizer and Moderna ones. It’s a traditional flu vaccine like the one many people take every Fall. Another company, I forget the name, is about to come out with this traditional-type vaccine, too.

If things get really dicey and you need proof of vaccination to travel or work, you now have an option. Take the J&J vaccine (or the other one that isn’t mRNA), and you’ll be fine.

This friend is very careful with pharmaceuticals and never took the yearly flu vaccine. But she’d take the J&J if it’s the price to pay to rejoin normal life. Pfizer and Moderna she wouldn’t take under any scenario.

I now feel a lot better because this means that vaccine passports aren’t the end of the world. There’s a way around them.

22 thoughts on “Update about Vaccines

  1. My concern with JJ vax is whether it uses the same adjuvant that caused narcolepsy in a significant number of European children (Pandremix H1N1 vaccine). I wonder if your friend could look into that.

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  2. Yes. The AstraZeneca one that they are giving in the UK and India is also a traditional vaccine. I was planning to go visit my family there and take it if push came to shove. But good to know there’s an option here as well.

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      1. Good question. Does anybody know if there were and still are quarantines upon arrival in these countries? I’m hung up on the Canadian situation, so I haven’t been following.

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        1. India is issuing visas and letting people in on visas (except tourist visas). I still have family there and I recently visited on an emergency visa when my mother was sick. I am told a person of Indian origin can get an entry visa to visit family without a medical emergency but I haven’t tried it myself.

          In India most states don’t have official quarantines anymore if you have a negative covid test from 72 hours before. You are supposed to “home quarantine” for 7 days. Anyone who is familiar with India knows that this means nothing. So yes- technically you can still get in to India if you have a visa and if you have a test then you don’t need to quarantine.

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          1. India is issuing visas and letting people in on visas (except tourist visas). I still have family there and I recently visited on an emergency visa when my mother was sick. I am told a person of Indian origin can get an entry visa to visit family without a medical emergency but I haven’t tried it myself.

            In May or thereabouts they stopped processing the person of Indian origin and overseas citizen of India applications. It seems much more relaxed now but AFAIK they haven’t resumed processing them?

            From what you say, it must be more relaxed. (And anecdotally, from the Whatsapp groups.) Several months ago my cousin’s mother-in-law died and he had to get permission to drive ~600 miles south for the funeral. He barely made it.

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            1. They resumed processing visas and OCI cards in late October (which is when I got mine). I haven’t checked since I got back to the US in January, but I’m told they are continuing to be quite reasonable and things are opening up.

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  3. Another vaccine that is still in trials and is likely to come to market in a couple of months is from Novavax. It is protein-based and more traditional as well. Notably, they have done animal testing with that one.

    As an aside, from what I understand, the Russian Sputnik vaccine is based on the same technology as Johnson and Johnson and AstraZeneca.

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    1. I wouldn’t put anything that the Russians make into my body because they have no scientists left. There’s no transparency, no protocols, etc. But it’s just my personal thing.

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    2. “Another vaccine that is still in trials and is likely to come to market in a couple of months is from Novavax. It is protein-based and more traditional as well. Notably, they have done animal testing with that one.”

      In another post in this thread I mentioned late stage side effects resulting from a vaccine manufactured in the usual (non immnotherapy/mRNA platform) way. The side effects in a large number of study participants was an alteration of lung architecture/fibrosis.

      The study, which ended up being cancelled, had already passed the animal testing phase. So, perhaps be a little cautious of the Novavax one when it first comes out, just in case.

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    1. I’d look at who’s finding them. Unfortunately, university programs are very often beholden to Big Pharma for funding and then have to say whatever the company that pays them wants. Half of the information at that link is demonstrably untrue. But that’s not new, unfortunately.

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  4. “Take the J&J vaccine (or the other one that isn’t mRNA), and you’ll be fine.”

    Too strong a statement.

    The spike protein that allows the virus to enter cells binds strongly to the ACE2 receptor. Those receptors are found in every organ, which means that along with the virus being able to infect many types of cell, any vaccine utilising that spike protein to bind strongly to ACE2 receptors will be able to affect many types of cell.

    When viruses enter cells and take them over, the end result is usually cell death. When vaccines bind to the same cells and can do the same thing, with the very least you can expect is disruption of proper function.

    If a cell type is affected by the vaccine that is responsible for performing some kind of task which is subtle but important, which would only be noticed weeks or months after the cells were interfered with/switched off, it may well be that the vaccine will cause damage that is not readily apparent or attributable to the vaccine.

    An example of such an effect would be, say, tissue fibrosis (ie the tissue becoming full of strands of protein so that it becomes stiffer/less stretchy, similar to a diffuse scarring). I mention that effect because that was one of the consequences of one of the original attempts to find a vaccine for SARS-COV-1 about a decade ago.

    Since many cell types may be affected due to the universality of the ACE2 receptor in all organs, the risk of a bad late stage side effect is much higher than usual.

    On that basis, the best thing for people to do is avoid both infection and vaccine if possible to allow for the emergence of late stage effects in volunteers/test subjects/human guinea pigs, as difficult as that may be.

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    1. Absolutely. You are 100% right. I should have added this. She said she won’t take any of these vaccines precisely because she doesn’t want to be a guinea pig. But if it becomes unavoidable to be able to work a d travel, she’ll go with the J&J one.

      Thank you, this is an important clarification.

      She also said there’s a high risk of developing an autoimmune disorder with these vaccines.

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    2. I agree with you, all these vaccines (as well as getting the virus) come with a risk, irrespective of the technology. Unfortunately, with the way things are going, some of us may eventually face the choice between being let go from work or taking one of these. I could even accept not being able to travel, but losing income is another story.

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  5. I do not know your feelings on stem cell lines:
    From the Archdiocese of Denver

    …In the case of the Pfizer and Moderna COVID-19 vaccines, their use is morally acceptable since neither company used fetal cell lines from an aborted baby at any level of design, development, or production. However, we must also acknowledge that these two vaccine options are not untouched by abortion, as both relied on fetal cells from an aborted baby for one of the confirmatory lab tests. In our current circumstances, when better options are not available, the use of the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines remains a morally valid option. On the other hand, vaccines such as AstraZeneca-Oxford use aborted fetal lines in design, development, production, and testing, and therefore are not a morally valid option because better options are available…

    OTOH the Pope was vaccinated two months ago.

    I don’t know if this guy really represents ROCOR thinking:

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    1. I don’t follow the happenings in the Russian Orthodox Church but I highly doubt it. They’d never go against Putin’s dearly beloved Sputnik vaccine.

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