Undercover Officers Have Sex With Activists They Spy On

My “State Universities” thread has been overrun by the discussion of British undercover officers who had sex with activists whose groups they infiltrated. I think we should move this discussion to a separate thread because I want the important conversation about state universities to continue.

Honestly, I have no idea why people are reacting so passionately to the article about the sex lives of undercover police officers and activists. Yes, it’s annoying to find out that your sex partner wasn’t entirely honest. It happens all the time, though. What’s the big deal? Is the entire hullabaloo being caused by the officers’ profession and the fact that many people disapprove of it? Well, I have to remind everybody that having sex with people’s professions is very unhealthy. Sexual desire and sexual enjoyment are a value in themselves.

Say, you’ve had sex with somebody, enjoyed it, had an orgasm, and then discovered that your partner is or does something you personally happen to find unacceptable. Say, they are a Putin supporter. (I hate Putin, in case people don’t know.) How is that going to diminish the value of the orgasm you experienced with them?

Or is it all about the lies those undercover officers told? Well, again this happens all the time. But we don’t bed the texts people utter (if we are sexually healthy, that is.) We bed their bodies and are attracted by their sex appeal. If the sexual attraction was genuine on both sides and if pleasure was experienced by both partners, then who cares what things they concealed from each other? (Of course, I refer to the concealment of things that are not life-threatening.)

I tried imagining what I would have felt if when I was a union organizer, I had discovered that an undercover policeman slept with me to get some information or whatever. If the sex had been good, I’d laughed and thought to myself, “This union organizing thing totally rocks. Now it’s giving me satisfying sex partners. Yippeee!” And if the sex had been bad, it would be an annoying waste of time, irrespective of the partner’s profession.

I don’t even know what tags to add to this post because the entire topic is so contrived. What’s the big deal, folks?

34 thoughts on “Undercover Officers Have Sex With Activists They Spy On”

  1. Hm. The whole thing just “feels” wrong to me, although if I really think about it I can’t put my finger on a real reason. If you ask me, lying to get into someone’s pants is always wrong, but I suppose this isn’t really any more wrong than, say, a married person telling their sex partner that they’re single. As far as I know, the activists weren’t particularly any more vulnerable than the general population (they weren’t underaged or anything, right?) and the officers actually had LESS institutional power when they were undercover…so…yeah, I suppose this is no more exploitive than other situations where one sex partners lies in order to get sex the other person wouldn’t otherwise want. But that alone makes it pretty damn bad.

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    1. Let’s say you are into long hair. And you meet this man with beautiful, luscious long hair. You get immediately aroused, have sex with him, and then discover that he is bald and that hair was nothing but a wig. I don’t know about you, but I’d totally laugh. For days. And I’d publish the story on my blog to let everybody else laugh.

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      1. RE long hair I would laugh too. However, RE married status, I would feel disgusted (mentally and physically), hurt and very angry. That’s what happened here, not long hair joke.

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        1. And how is a person supposed to guess that you get sexually aroused by one’s single status? You have to agree that sexually, it makes a lot less sense than to be aroused by long hair.

          You can never know what in your personal history might cause an unhealthy disgust in any given human being. The most important thing should still be whether the sex was good. And if it isn’t, there are many sexologists and sexopathologists in all major cities in the developed world.

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      2. //And how is a person supposed to guess that you get sexually aroused by one’s single status? //

        Married people, who cheat and hide being married, know it well. Aren’t you aware of cultural meme against sleeping with married people, which many do share (not only in words)?

        May be you think more in the direction of 1 night stand, while I imagine quite long relationship, as happened in this case with several officers (a year is long too, imo). About 1 night stand I agree one doesn’t have to give lots of info, but imo if you’re dating for a while – lying about important aspects like married status isn’t OK.

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        1. If you have an actual relationship with a person that is characterized with such a degree of emotional distance, then that is your choice. Nobody can maintain a lie about one’s married status for more than 2 days, believe me. I mean, how do you imagine that on a practical level? “Here is my phone number but don’t call me because. . .” what? “Here is my address but don’t come by unannounced because. . .” what? I won’t be spending Christmas (St. Valentine’s, summer vacations, the weekends) with you because. . .

          Nobody can conceal their married status in an actual relationship. And people who claim they have been duped are of the “ах, обмануть меня не трудно, я сам обманываться рад” variety.

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  2. The real outrage is here is that police officers were told by their employers that they HAD to have sex with the people they were investigating. When the police officers be joined the force, they were not signing up to be prostitutes. Why is this sexual coercion being glossed over?

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    1. Yes, I agree that this is what should be the real issue in the situation. Were the officers coerced into having sex under the threat of being fired or damaging their careers? If so, then that is outrageous and legal action should be taken.

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    1. So they don’t know anybody who got married for money and had kids to assure themselves a bigger payout during divorce? I know at least 3 such people. Yes, they are jerks, but where is the popular outrage about that?

      As to how “deceitful” the relationship was in this case, we can’t know that. From the article, it seems like this officer directly contravened his orders by having a family with this woman. Who’s to say there wasn’t a legitimate interest in having kids with her on his part?

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  3. Besides, other people may experience sexuality a bit differently. F.e. some women would be *physically* disgusted upon the revelation that the man was 1 night with her and another night with a lover or a hidden wife and then put his organ in her again. Others wouldn’t be *physically* disgusted. And I don’t see any reason to deem any group “unhealthy” or whatever. People differ in many aspects, surely such personal thing as sex can have some healthy different approaches (along with many unhealthy ones).

    For me physical desire is a must, however, I can imagine a situation, in which new facts make one feel disgust despite initial physical appeal. Some extreme examples: a spy against your country, a serial rapist, a phedophile. Can’t you truly imagine *any* scenario, which would make you feel horrible in retrospect?

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    1. “F.e. some women would be *physically* disgusted upon the revelation that the man was 1 night with her and another night with a lover or a hidden wife and then put his organ in her again. ”

      – Yes, I’ve had a friend who couldn’t forgive her husband when he revealed that the day before meeting her and having sex with her, he had sex with another woman. She tortured him and guilt-tripped him about it for years and then lashed out at me when I pointed out that she wasn’t being reasonable. I still think she wasn’t though, and no amount of talk as to how “everybody is different” is helping me change my mind. 🙂

      “ome extreme examples: a spy against your country, a serial rapist, a pedophile.”

      – A serial rapist and a pedophile will not be interested in consensual sex with an adult, so this scary scenario makes little sense. As for a spy, we all know I’m not patriotic, so I’d find the whole situation titillating. 🙂

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      1. I agree she wasn’t reasonable, but not because of physical disgust (if she felt it and not something else). Being disgusted and deciding to break up because of it is perfectly reasonable. Being disgusted/hurt, but trying to move on is reasonable too. Guilt-tripping for years isn’t so, imo. This situation has nothing at all to do with the point I was trying to make.

        I always thought that most rapists have consensual sex too. Anyway, if you describe it as “scary scenario”, it probably means you too have limit beyond which sex can be re-judged, re-evaluated and found horrible. Others put this limit in different places and may feel part of emotions you would feel in this scary scenario.

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        1. Most rapist are completely impotent in their regular lives. Remember Chikatilo?

          “Anyway, if you describe it as “scary scenario”, it probably means you too have limit beyond which sex can be re-judged, re-evaluated and found horrible.”

          – No, it doesn’t. I was referring to those stories that people tell themselves to feel scared for no reason. All of this “And then I discovered that my husband of 30 years was a serial killer of little kids and, boy, was I shocked! You can never trust anybody!”

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  4. //Nobody can conceal their married status in an actual relationship. //

    I was trying to find some hypothetic equivalent example since here the officers did fool those women. Or do you think undercover police officers aren’t professional enough for that and any not desiring to be fooled woman would see through them? If those tactics are used in espionage, they must be refined beyond the standard cheater level and the officers in question were trained, supplied with entire false identities, everything. If it all were standard cheater level, nobody would infiltrate sensitive places in international espionage or even criminal gangs. I see truth RE usual cheaters, but here the situation is different.

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    1. el, if we are talking about actual relationships here, the idea that people can go for years and not notice that conversations about one’s place of employment and their career go nowhere, that their partner disappears on a regular basis, that he has acquaintances and receives phone calls you know nothing about is ludicrous. Of course, if you decide not to notice, you won’t notice even if your partner moves a live elephant into the house.

      In a relationship, people feel each other, they establish a dialogue that is beyond words. I can be in my room with the door closed, and I immediately know when N. gets an email that upsets him in another room with a closed door. What happens in an intimate relationship is always complex and can never be fully understood by people outside of that relationship. never.

      If these women really failed to notice, then the relationship was completely fake on both sides.

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  5. I want to add, in the spirit of full disclosure, that my first marriage fell apart precisely after I discovered a horrible and completely unexpected truth about my then-husband. It took me years to recognize that the “completely unexpected truth” was something I had studiously avoided noticing because it was more convenient and suited my purposes.

    But oh, I was totally outraged when the “hidden truth” was first revealed.

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  6. “Most rapist are completely impotent in their regular lives.”

    Can you expand on this? I, like el, assumed that most rapists probably have consensual sex too.

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    1. I’m sorry, I can’t find the research on this at this moment. I know I had this info, and it was extensive, but I have no idea where it is. I’ll try to find it in the new year, OK?

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  7. This reminds me of the woman in Israel who sued a man for *rape* after she had a one night stand with him, because she later found out he was Arab (he claimed to be Jewish in his dating profile).

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    1. From wiki:

      Sabbar Kashur, a Palestinian Muslim accepted a plea bargain and an 18-month sentence on the reduced charge of rape by deception in 2010 after a period of incarceration and house arrest. After Israel was widely condemned in the international press,[5] due to perceived anti Arab racism in the conviction, the judge unsealed the records to show that this had in fact been a plea bargain in a case in which Kashur was originally charged with violent rape of a Jewish woman allegedly left bruised in an apartment building stairway.[4] The court sent the victim to a mental hospital for treatment and convicted Kashur on the lesser charge.[3] Prosecutors agreed to the plea bargain in order to spare the woman a long cross-examination that might undermine her evidence.[4] The conviction is currently under appeal.

      But, of course, the legend of women vs men and Arab-hating woman putting not rapist in jail lives on.

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  8. “As regards being with women in very, very, very promiscuous groups such as the eco-wing, environmental movement, leftwing, or the Animal Liberation Front – it’s an extremely promiscuous lifestyle and you cannot not be promiscuous in there.”

    You have to wonder if these sort of revelations are not just propaganda in an attempt to put these groups in a bad light with those that think sex is evil.

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    1. Also this quote contradicts yours and they’re in the same article:

      “The best way of stopping any liaison getting too heavy was to shag somebody else. It’s amazing how women don’t like you going to bed with someone else,” said the officer, whose undercover deployment infiltrating anti-racist groups lasted from 1993 to 1997.

      I doubt those not-liking-cheating women slept with several men, while wanting monogamy from this one.

      In general, “she is a whore” AKA “promiscuous” is a dog whistle, meaning “she deserved it, don’t worry, she is not “a good woman” like you, so if she were exploited – it’s fine” . And many buy it and will close eyes on practically any abuse of “not like us” people, which is exactly what police department wants. Like even after a rape of 11 year old by many men, they were protected with “she is a loose girl, her mother didn’t watch her”. So I am not surprised that those women were called “extremely promiscuous”.

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