After the mass murder Elliot Roger perpetrated today, MRA groups and especially the PUA-hate forum should be designated domestic terrorist groups and get investigated by the FBI.
Outlaw MRAs!
Opinions, art, debate
Opinions, art, debate
After the mass murder Elliot Roger perpetrated today, MRA groups and especially the PUA-hate forum should be designated domestic terrorist groups and get investigated by the FBI.
Clarissa's Blog 
I never thought of that before. But I completely agree with you. I think PUA groups are indeed terrorist groups. I’m so upset and saddened by this.
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When people get together to discuss their hatred for members of a specific group, plan violence against those members, and then people end up dead, that’s terrorism. I say, enough is enough. We’ve got to stop tolerating this hatred against women as a society.
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Clarissa, something smells about this shooting.
1) Looking at the guy’s videos, he is fairly calm and robotic (as opposed to boiling over with rage). I could imagine this guy shooting himself in a dark corner somewhere, but not the mass shooting.
2) This person happens to be the son of the assistant director to the Hunger Games (read status and money), and this guy can’t bed someone in social-conscious California?!
Everything about this points to a red-flag event.
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It’s only one among many other cases like these. Remember the Montreal massacre? Remember Columbine?
As for his Daddy’s money, how much money would he need to give you for you to have sex with him?
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If he had been boiling over with rage in the videos, the rage would have stayed there and none of this would’ve happened. In the video I’ve seen, he uses a very controlled voice that’s entirely at odds with his body language – he’s twitching and bouncing around in a way that, had I seen him do this in a bar or something, would’ve served as a very serious hint to take my drinking elsewhere very fast. This is getting-ready-for-violence agitation.
As for his status and money not getting him laid, the consensus among the sex workers I follow on Twitter seems to be “too high-risk to take as a client, even before knowing he killed people”. I can’t imagine many amateurs would’ve thought differently.
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Stille: exactly. Besides, I’ve seen no evidence this guy actually looked for sex. I have known several men who enjoyed in this kind of anti-women rants. Every single one of them did everything in their power to ensure there’d never be any women around them.
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He probably didn’t do anything likely to lead to him getting laid, yeah. I haven’t read his manifesto, and I’ve watched very few of his vids, but it certainly does look like he was in need of an outwardly visible thing to point at as proof that he was not getting what was rightfully his, and sex could serve this purpose for him.
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Tell me Carissa, and what should we call the Feminists groups that have violently attacked others? And what about the none one-off events woman has slain men? By your definition, they’re terrorists too and need to be put on death row. Oh but that’s women ‘fighting the patriachy’ right? PSH I want a pound of whatever you’re smoking. Get real. When i see women like you spouting mysogny every chance you get, it makes me wonder just exactly what kind of a relationship you have with men in your life such as your father, brother, husband or son. Wouldn’t be surprised if you had none of those. Bottom line is, you women can cry all you want and spout all this nonsense about the patriarchy that doesn’t exist (anymore). At the end of the day, a majority of men will still be in the higher echelons of social status unless women stop playing the victim and actually get off their ass and work hard. You want that extra dollar? Then you do some heavy lifting at your job just like men. Otherwise, I’d rather you just say thank you and go your own way.
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Had a look at his picture and whereas before I was not convinced, now I truly realize he was an alpha male!! What more is there to say really? Perhaps alpha males should be placed in a cage somewhere, so we can observe them more closely. What a great thing to be!
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I believe that whoever filled this guy’s empty head with all that alpha-male garbage should be facing responsibility now. I further believe that it should become as socially unacceptable to rant about alpha make and gender differences as it is to be a Holocaust denier.
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I have been saying that for years and years. Because I suffered a lot of financial set backs and emotional trauma due to people behaving in this way. I’ve said it and I’ve said it, but until people take it seriously, society will pay a huge cost. Fundamentalist Christianity is a large contributor to this sort of brainless idiocy.
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My husband listens to a Fundamentalist radio station and he says he’s shocked at how similar the discourse is with what the leading US feminists who are not me are saying.
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Geesh. USA culture will never cease to disappoint me.
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I wouldn’t merit his interest. Then again, I’ve had to literally run away from women dead-set on bedding me (pulling a Joseph, minus the getting jailed part).
Obviously these massacres are done by sick individuals with poor family backgrounds (the Cali killer’s dad has a perverted sense of his wife’s value). Calling all MRAs and PUAs terrorists would be like calling anti-abortionists terrorists based on the behavior of whackos who shoot up abortion clinics, or calling all nationalistic Ukrainians neo-Nazis: the bad behavior of a few individuals should not condemn all.
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I’m also hotly in demand! It is amazing!!!!1
Nothing merits my interest but I will sidle along and comment here. Stop blaming people. They is Sinnaz. God made them thus. Nobody can do anything about anything. Human Naycha.
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I’m not entirely sure that calling “anti abortionists” terrorists is so far off the mark. The movement is marked either by overt violence or a malevolent undercurrent of violence. The desire to control all feminine bodies is violent in and of itself and a desire that is akin to terrorism.
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I support the idea of considering anti-abortionists terrorists! That’s a very productive idea. Anybody who has in any way inspired anti-abortionist violent acts should be investigated.
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Yeah, the murderer in Montreal had a terrible family background. Both of his parents behaved very abnormally in the Canada of that era.
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Have you actually looked at this kid? He was five nine, weighed about one hundred and thirty five. He is 22 years old, has wealthy parents, he drives a bloody BMW, but has not even kissed a girl. This reeks of closet. Look at his face https://plus.google.com/112420115103149734170/posts
Afraid it looks far more narcissistic, even effeminate, than alpha aka dominant male ;-D
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Fox News was the day the American mind died.
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I don’t understand what the BMW is doing in this discussion at all. Would you have sex with a person just because they drive a BMW? I can’t imagine anybody having sex in exchange for a ride in some stupid car.
So I suggest we leave the BMW out if the discussion altogether because it’s not related to the issue in any way.
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http://wehuntedthemammoth.com/?s=puahate
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Interesting how we always need an excuse or reason to blame for nuts. Rather than just put the onus on the one who is nuts. 😦
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To the extent that he’s “nuts,” he didn’t become “nuts” and his “nuttiness” didn’t manifest the way it did in a vacuum, sealed off from any outside influences. The fact that there are outside influences doesn’t mean that he didn’t make his own choices, only that he didn’t become what he was entirely on his own.
But people have a need to just shrug and say “he’s nuts,” no need to look into this further, just move right along…
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The guy was healthy enough to function in society. I see no value in this discussion of “nuts.”
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Ted Bundy was healthy enough to function in society too.
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Exactly. This is not an issue of mental health or lack thereof.
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Of course it is.
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@hkatz
As many people that need to “shrug it off” probably equals the ones “who need to find the reason” to feel better about themselves. Where would you suggest we just “move right along” to?
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Thinking about this guy and why he might have done what he did doesn’t make me “feel better about myself.” What are you even talking about?
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Always annoying when people confuse evil and crazy.
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Always annoying when people confuse evil and crazy.(Stille)
Yeah, its not like the two can exist together in the same individual, right?
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Of course they can. It doesn’t look to be the case here though. Do note that the bastard could manage college. As much as it may comfort you to think of him as abnormal enough to not be worth thinking of, the fact is that anesthetizing your critical faculties with such trite platitudes will only leave you unable to protect yourself and the people you care about from similar evil.
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“Do note that the bastard could manage college. As much as it may comfort you to think of him as abnormal enough to not be worth thinking of, the fact is that anesthetizing your critical faculties with such trite platitudes will only leave you unable to protect yourself and the people you care about from similar evil.”
– I agree completely. “Oh, he’s just crazy” is a reaction that rejects every shred of the existing evidence that this criminal was in full possession of his capacities and engaged in a premeditated, completely reasoned out murder of people.
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It is apparent from his “manifest” that he was not able to manage college and had in fact dropped out from many of his classes – one of them because he found out that the pretty girl in that class had a boyfriend and couldn’t handle the jealousy (his own words).
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Every student drops out of many of the courses. That’s how American higher ed works. You would be better served trying to analyze what drives you to defend a mass murderer.
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There supposedly are as many “nuts” lonely women as they’re men. However, they usually don’t go shooting football teams or male students’ dormitories. Culture does make a difference.
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@el
Women express their violent tendencies differently.
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// Women express their violent tendencies differently.
The question is why.
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This question has been answered many times. :-). Women are socialized to interiorize rage while men are socialized to exteriorize. Gangs led by women are notoriously more successful than gangs led by men and female sharp- shooters are more successful than the male ones precisely because women don’t allow themselves to explode in rage. Women who are not me, I mean. I’d make a horrible sharp-shooter. 🙂
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Good question. Do you think physiology might have an answer to that? Or should we just say its all “culture”
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@Clarissa
Culturalized or just physiology showing that externalized rage with a somewhat less physical capability might not work out so well. You know, taking all the weapons away and just letting your natural physical tendencies to dictate. 😉
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“Culturalized or just physiology showing that externalized rage with a somewhat less physical capability might not work out so well. You know, taking all the weapons away and just letting your natural physical tendencies to dictate.”
– Have you lost your command of the English language? This comment is a jumbled collection of words that don’t amount to complete sentences. We have many commenters here who are not native speakers of English, yet they still make an effort to be understood. Try imitating them.
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Is it culturalized or just physiology showing that externalized rage while possessing a weaker body might not work out to well?
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You donìt need that much strenght to use a gun.
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Women don’t go around shooting? Lol have you ever picked up a newspaper in your entire life?
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Some would argue that blaming “nuttiness” is itself an excuse to avoid examining more pervasive social factors.
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I wonder if all those folks who are saying this mass murderer is “crazy” are trying to communicate that if they were to sit on a jury where he or such other criminal were on trial they would return the verdict of “not guilty for reason of mental disease.”
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“I don’t understand what the BMW is doing in this discussion at all.”
It’s a convenient way to explain away their own failures with women. So instead of focusing inwards and examining why they repel women, they just say ‘I’m not rich, and bitches love money, so fuck that, I’ll just stay in tonight and call women whores in online chat forums’.
It’s so delightful to observe the terror in their reactions to this thing.
‘You mean to say He had a BMW???! And he didn’t get laid??’ FALSE FLAG, FALSE FLAG, HE WAS AN EFFEMINATE GAY. THANKS OBAMA!’
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Yes, I think you are right. This explanation did not occur to me but it makes every sense.
It’s funny that all of the defenders of this guy fail to answer the simple question of whether they would have sex with somebody just because s/he drove a BMW. If this car looms so large for them, they should be able to overcome repugnance somebody provokes in them and get sexually aroused by staring at a car, right?
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Are you honestly trying to pretend that some women are not attracted to males displaying high status material goods, e.g. that BMW ;-D
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Please try to answer the question asked of you: would you have sex with somebody just because they drove a BMW? Is it such a difficult question to answer?
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Ah, but b g is probably a guy, of the sort that thinks women aren’t really people, so of course it isn’t relevant to the discussion that he’d never have sex with someone just because he or she had a BMW.
b g, there is certainly a subset of women who decide to trade sexual and emotional favours for material and social status rewards. However, not even they would bother with some prat way too full of his parents’ money – this is not the sort of material and social status that can be maintained by the guy himself, and as for short-term rewards, do note the sex workers who said he wouldn’t have been worth the risk.
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“Ah, but b g is probably a guy, of the sort that thinks women aren’t really people, so of course it isn’t relevant to the discussion that he’d never have sex with someone just because he or she had a BMW.”
– It will never cease to amaze me how attached many men are to this ridiculous myth that they can actually awaken sexual desire in women with their cars and wallets. I don’t know if to pity them or laugh at them. It’s just too bizarre.
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Sorry, I thought your question was rhetorical. No, I have never been attracted to any woman because of her vehicle.
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You have answered your own question then. Vehicles don’t cause sexual desire. Unless one is a fetishist. 🙂
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My question to you was also not meant to be a mere rhetorical device. Are you honestly trying to pretend that some women are not attracted to males displaying high status material goods? And no, I am not saying she wants to have sex with those goods, but rather that she might in part be attracted to him because of those goods.
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Sexual attraction works the same in men and women. Of course, there are prostitutes of both sexes, but there is no evidence this guy sought sex workers’ services.
And no, nobody is attracted to anybody because of goods. There are people who manage to overcome their disgust and force themselves into servicing an undesirable partner but this has nothing to go with attraction.
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Sexual attraction works the same in men and women.(Clarissa)
Lol, of course it does. Its only cultural stuff that would make it different, not anything physiological. 😉
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Hmmm, I disagree. Factors that influence sexual attraction such as youth, beauty, size, age, power, and dominance are very different in men and women.
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“Factors that influence sexual attraction such as youth, beauty, size, age, power, and dominance are very different in men and women.”
– These factors have no influence on sexual attraction in anybody. I highly recommend the following post: https://clarissasblog.com/2011/05/07/what-causes-sexual-attraction/
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I also recommend this one because it’s very good: https://clarissasblog.com/2011/10/07/the-reasons-people-are-romantically-and-sexually-unsuccessful/
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Hmmm, I am afraid that we will simply have to disagree…that’s getting to be a habit ;-D
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That’s OK, I’m doing all I can to attract people who disagree to the blog. 🙂
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Fair enough, not only our sexes polar opposites, but our education and upbringing are very different. We should expect different conclusions…but should try always to reduce them. Because, that too is part of the dance ;-D
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There are no “polar opposite sexes.” There is only a painful need to make these meaningless statements to allay the terror of the realization that one has been brainwashed into eating up the crappy meal of identity politics.
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“There are no “polar opposite sexes.” There is only a painful need to make these meaningless statements to allay the terror of the realization that one has been brainwashed into eating up the crappy meal of identity politics.”
Actually, those who believe in polar opposite sexes will no doubt be the least sexually successful of all people, simply because embracing the notion of “I and you and you in me” is really at the core of a very robust sexuality. So when people start to proclaim “men and women are fundamentally different and there is no overlap” what they are really saying is “we define sexuality out of existence — then, we wonder why we are not having any sex.”
Well, it is obvious, is it not? You’re afraid of contamination or you don’t want to become “feminized” though too much interactive intimacy, and therefore you are not capable of any sexual experience.
The Bible tells me so.
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“Actually, those who believe in polar opposite sexes will no doubt be the least sexually successful of all people, simply because embracing the notion of “I and you and you in me” is really at the core of a very robust sexuality. So when people start to proclaim “men and women are fundamentally different and there is no overlap” what they are really saying is “we define sexuality out of existence — then, we wonder why we are not having any sex.””
– EXACTLY. The key to sexual success and an ecstatic personal life is to abandon these meaningless stereotypes. I wish people would just stop to think for a moment: who taught me all this stuff about the “polar opposite sexes” and what goal did that person pursue. Gosh, how is it possible that so many people go through what they call lives without even trying to think for themselves. They whine and moan that they are not understood, that nobody wants them, that they are lonely, that nobody wants them. Yet the tiniest bit of effort needed to look at what it is inside them that is so repulsive to others scares the hell out of them.
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Yeah, their repulsiveness is caused by the sense that boundaries should never be contaminated — there should never be an “I in you” or a “you in me”. But such a supposition seals their sexual fate.
Now, all of the reason why my sex drive stays so high and why it is so succesful is my capacity to put myself into the mind and sensations of a sexually active male. I want to experience the ways in which he enjoys himself. I am, in that sense, turning myself into a male, in my imagination, but also not actually becoming one. And the results are a very high level of sexual interest, engagement and capacity.
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Gotta say that I have no noticed any “terror” ;-D
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Stille
Actually I am a widower and a retired scientist.
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I am romantically and sexually successful — very much so. It’s weird how it came about. I was on some Nietzsche discussion boards and then I took a wider interest in philosophy and moved onto another list. There, some guy sent me jokes, as I was part of his jokes list. We got talking and I said, “Well, why don’t you come to Australia, as I need a man?” He put in for a redundancy and sold his furniture and was here within a matter of months. He had given me some money to book a motel for a few weeks. I was exhausted from all the tension of the arrangements, so I collapsed on the bed. He went to the shower, throwing off his stuff: “Uncircumcised as you can see!” And that was December 2000. We’ve been together ever since.
But you do need a certain depth of personality to pull this kind of thing off, as it were.
I think a lot of kids are brought up these days without any depth to their personalities — which is what my latest video was sort of about.
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“But you do need a certain depth of personality to pull this kind of thing off, as it were.”
– Absolutely true. You need to be complex and mature human beings with great insight into themselves and others.
I love such stories.
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Well I am not sure how much the VERY TRADITIONAL notion of maturity comes into it. It’s instinct, really, and courage, and having the capacity to maintain your depth.
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I don’t mean the traditional notion, I mean my own rendering of it.
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sure. That is different from the traditional notion of social conformity though. Most people think that one is mature when one embraces social conformity.
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Good on ya ;-D
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and not only that, but I enjoy it.
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I should also make the point that the guy came from the US and we had never met in person before. He’d also sent me a picture of himself looking about 20 years older than he does now, incase I was overestimating him.
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This is quite an amusing sad luck story. Probably I am best advised not to repost it here, but I did focus very much on memoir writing as a sub-genre of shamanic writing, so here is something that looks a little like a memoir. I have just waded through the first few chapters. Like I said to anyone who wants to comment on it, you really do need to read Dambudzo ,Marechera’s writing to see what real memoir writing is about. Read HOUSE OF HUNGER
http://www.scribd.com/doc/225960813/Elliot-Rodger-Santa-Barbara-mass-shooting-suspect-My-Twisted-World-manifesto
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I’m not against angry writing, but there are writers and then there are writers. Compare these two:
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You have to admit, this guy belonged in an institution. And for the love of truth, admit that his size and face are not sexually attractive features. That is how the world is.
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“You have to admit, this guy belonged in an institution.”
– Ah, I see you have the gift of diagnozing mental illness online. Have you used it to make money? 🙂
“And for the love of truth, admit that his size and face are not sexually attractive features.”
– As I have already explained, size and face have zero to do with sexual attraction. They are just ways people explain to themselves the chemical processes they are incapable of understanding.
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He looked a little like Johnny Depp, who is thought to be thrilling and fascinating by many women.
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Damn, but you are stubborn ;-D I think it is part of all the mystery…and yes, I agree, there is a strong chemical/biological influence. But no, size does matter and so does confidence. +
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The elliot cretin is too funny. I just read that each day he spent two or three hours walking around the neighborhood, and didn’t meet any girl. Each walk left him “bitterly disappointed”.
There is a similar passage in Beckett’s Molloy, where the character stands in the middle of an empty field and waits for someone to offer him a job, by nothing happens and he eventually leaves (after waiting the whole day) bitterly disappointed with life and the universe.
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In Santa Barbara where nobody walks, this is really rich. I knew somebody like this in grad school. He was convinced a deserving woman had to knock on his door one day, so he sat at home waiting, ranting about all those whores who didn’t appreciate a quality man like him.
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He also keeps using the expression of “clamored” up the stairs (twice now), when I think he means, “clambered” (like an ape).
Really, the thing to do when one is down and out is to laugh at oneself. I also had similar troubles around his age, crying every Christmas, for reasons that I didn’t know why (maladjustment and not quite feeling any nourishing sensation from life).
The key is to access the negative part of the dialectic better — one’s own trauma (I hadn’t acknowledged my tremendous losses in being uprooted from Africa and hence I hadn’t mourned) and sexual messiness (you have to take risks, if you can find anything attractive or interesting that can lure you in). Of course women are a little different from men, at least in my own experience, because at that age (22 or so) I wasn’t that interested in sex, but more in exploring nature and the environment, which I needed to be a sensual experience at that point.
So I can understand, at least abstractly, what he is going on and on about. Other point is that I’m from Africa where a strict hierarchy was in place (and one is never at the top) so I would never have had that sense of entitlement to go around killing people.
But certainly one has to grow OUT OF one’s immaturity and there are ways to do so.
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Surely, you know that this kid is insane.
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And finally: the way a real human being deal with loneliness:
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And you all believe in this crap?
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“- It will never cease to amaze me how attached many men are to this ridiculous myth that they can actually awaken sexual desire in women with their cars and wallets. I don’t know if to pity them or laugh at them. It’s just too bizarre.”
Bear in mind that most men in North America have literally been watching this exact scenario play out in advertisements for their entire lives.
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I believe in personal responsibility. I watch the same ads but I’m not trying to sell myself for a ride on a BMW. If they choose to see ads as a good source of knowledge about life, that’s their misfortune.
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Well ads are a source of pleasure, offering us self esteem for very little and never criticising us, except when we deserve it, so that is okay.
I wonder if many people, apart from me, notice how almost completely incapable of self-criticism the majority of consumers are? Even to point this out is already socially taboo. You’re supposed to stand back and let the good feelings abound.
To tell people that yes they really are suckers for ads and that their ideology will take them in a downward spiral is thought, by some, to be antihumanistic.
Or, if I criticise MYSELF, that is not understood as analysis, but as self-contempt, to be remedied by others doing their part.
And, when I say that those kinds of attitudes lack depth, people will react as if their feelings have been made to hurt, they have been deprived of their humanity and the words themselves should be put in quarantine.
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Hmmm, I am wondering if any of the women starting this blog have enough
jam to apologize ;-D
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Apologize for what?
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For believing that the authorities should be used to control/curb/criminalize otherwise innocent citizens whose only “crime” is disagreeing with your personal feelings.
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The thread is long already, please don’t spam it.
There are no “women” writing this blog. I’m the only author. In the post I suggested that terrorist organizations be investigated.
It is impossible to disagree with feelings.
I invite everybody who is compelled to discuss things with voices in his or her head or “disagree with personal feelings” to do that away from my blog.
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You should be embarrassed, as should Evelina, and several others. There is no voice in anybody’s head. What you each said was posted in public. You both called for criminalizing innocent citizens because such people had the nerve to disagree with your feelings on sexual matters. Further you went beyond the PUA to also include all of the MRA be investigated. And now, you actually have the bloody nerve to ask for censorship. Sorry, you were morally wrong then, and you are wrong now.
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‘And now, you actually have the bloody nerve to ask for censorship.’
– Ask whom? Are you feeling OK today? What happened to you all of a sudden?
” You both called for criminalizing innocent citizens because such people had the nerve to disagree with your feelings on sexual matters.”
– Please provide the link to the place where I said “I call for criminalizing innocent citizens because such people had the nerve to disagree with my feelings on sexual matters” or apologize for these bizarre allegations. I would also be interested in knowing where you saw “sexual matters” in this thread.
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“After the mass murder Elliot Roger perpetrated today, MRA groups and especially the PUA-hate forum should be designated domestic terrorist groups and get investigated by the FBI…”
These are sexual matters, the men and women of the MRA are seeking civil rights, equal protection in the courts. It is what it is.
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You should have just said from the start you are trying to be funny.
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Oh, I am quite serious and you know it. And you, particularly as a tenured professor in the humanities, should be deeply ashamed of that post.
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Civil rights are sexual matters? 🙂 🙂
By the way, I’m not a tenured professor in the Humanities. Are you really sure you are OK today?
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Oh I am sorry, I thought that you had received tenure…maybe half a year ago? And yes, civil rights can be sexual matters. Both of us are aware of subsection (2) of Section 15 of the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms, and which equity groups are protected against discrimination and which are not.
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You are confusing me with somebody and you are seeing sex where there is none. 🙂
Thank you for making me laugh today.
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“I know the freakazoids from that cesspool. They once tried to troll me, so let’s keep defense of those cockroaches from my blog, OK?”
Won’t you give some hostile and threatening lunatics more of a chance on the vague possibility that they might have something valuable to say? They could be sincere and just struggling to express themselves. I mean it’s not even Christmas and you are already giving up. And you are still quite young! There is plenty to time to hear them out and let them speak their minds.
Or would you prefer them to shoot you in the head?
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“Won’t you give some hostile and threatening lunatics more of a chance on the vague possibility that they might have something valuable to say? ”
– Yes, I’m just like Stalin, Hitler and Pol Pot all rolled into one, persecuting these poor bunnies with important messages. 🙂
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You’re pressuring them down, making them feel the cracks developing in their seams. And all for what? You don’t have any point of existence and you know it. Beither do any of the lay-dees. All this pretending to be an intellectual when you KNOW you don’t really enjoy it. You just want a young man with a BMW and some cool sunnies.
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http://www.chaunceydevega.com/2014/05/the-true-alpha-male-ucsb-mass-shooting.html#comment-1403851933
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b g, It would be much better if MRA movement concentrated on issues like equal treatment in custody cases, or society accepting that men are not always perpetrators and women are not always victims of domestic violence, etc. And unequivocally denounced those “MRA” which come up with the BS a la “if only women were more eager to bed Eliot Rodger, he wouldn’t have a reason to go on a rampage”, Which has nothing to do with 15(2). Unfortunately, the MRA seem to be unable to do that, too desperate for allies to openly reject unsavory characters… In other words, MRA PR sucks.
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I also kept hoping that the MRA would stop the infantile whining act, get themselves together and start addressing real issues. But it’s useless. All they ever do is moan that Mommy doesn’t give them all they deserve.
It isn’t their PR that sucks. They suck. Collectively and individually.
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Fair enough, the MRA is speaking truth to power, and that is always difficult. I am not seeing anybody suggesting that women should have eagerly bedded Elliot Rodger…except himself. His thought process was so alien to me that I wondered if he was not sexually confused.
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“His thought process was so alien to me that I wondered if he was not sexually confused.”
– No, he’s MRA brainwashed. All he said or wrote was copy-pasted from MRAs websites. But yet again you reveal a need to see sex everywhere. Have you tried spending more time on dating websites?
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I do not know. I give people benefit of doubt. It is entirely possible to believe some MRA issues are legitimate, and to simultaneously believe anyone’s entitlement to having the sex one wants, regardless of what potential partners think, is a complete, utter and dangerous BS. And if that is possible for me, I should not doubt that it is possible for others too.
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“I give people benefit of doubt. It is entirely possible to believe some MRA issues are legitimate”
– I looked hard for any signs they were interested in doing anything but moan. I even have about a dozen of their blogs in my blog roll. But it never goes beyond whining.
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“All he said or wrote was copy-pasted from MRAs websites.”
Can you provide an example of this?
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I’m not even remotely interested on wasting my time this way. You care so much, you investigate. But not before you work on your personal life because you are getting all loopy.
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LOL, that’s what I thought ;-D
From what I came across, he blogged on PUA HATE and a bodybuilding one.
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Good, so go investigate.
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I did, the murderer has been in therapy since he was 8. His responses on the two blogs have been removed. PUAHATE is one opposed to PUA. Do you realize that?
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“PUAHATE is one opposed to PUA”
– For the sole reason that its suggestions didn’t work for the pathetic losers gathered there. Which means they all tried them.
I know the freakazoids from that cesspool. They once tried to troll me, so let’s keep defense of those cockroaches from my blog, OK?
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LOL, not to worry. I only visit one MRA group, about a third of its members are female, a rapidly growing segment. It has a heavy MGTOW component, but I haven’t seen any PUA positive or negative influence whatsoever.
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Who’s worried? You are the only one in this thread having a fit over these freakazoids being called what they are.
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LOL, I am not the one calling for a large number of innocent people designated as a domestic terrorist group. So now, which of us might be accused of having a fit ;-D
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Nobody is calling for that either. I’m suggesting that domestic terrorists be investigated. You got a problem with that?
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“After the mass murder Elliot Roger perpetrated today, MRA groups and especially the PUA-hate forum should be designated domestic terrorist groups and get investigated by the FBI.”
This is actually what you posted, so yes, somebody was calling for exactly that. And that somebody was you. Further, you have failed to apologize for making such a statement. So yes, I most certainly do have a problem with this.
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“So yes, I most certainly do have a problem with this.”
– Nobody cares about your problems.
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LOL, hey, you asked, so I answered. Have a good night ;-D
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http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/05/27/your-princess-is-in-another-castle-misogyny-entitlement-and-nerds.html
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Yes. As I keep saying over and over and over again, when you have to make efforts – any efforts – to attract somebody, you need to stop immediately and go see a psychologist because you are engaged in something very unhealthy.
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Well, I do apologize for my mistake, and I hope that you do get tenure. And the laugh is no problem, giving you a well deserved spanking is the least that I could do ;-D
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Man, if I may say so, have you considered working on your personal life? Because you are turning into Private Smith from the joke:
“Private Smith, what are you thinking about?”
“Sir, broads, sir!”
“Why broads, Private Smith?”
“Because I always think about them, sir!”
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LOL, this is hardly my first rodeo ;-D
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“- I hate, hate, hate it when people mask psychological issues under the guise of political activism. This goes both for pseudo-feminists who confuse crappy personal lives and daddy issues with feminism and the MRAs who confuse crappy personal lives and mommy issues with fighting for gender equality. I feel extreme contempt for creatures that are so incapable of self-awareness.”
This is interesting because in my case my fight toward a more feminist level of consciousness and my “daddy issues”, as it were, were deeply intertwined and related. And consciously, I knew that they were, that my capacity to think for myself was deeply threatened by an internalized sense of my father’s profound rage. He was angry at a number of issues and most of them had social origins and meanings in relation to gender.
For instance
1. He was extremely angry at his mother for marrying a step-father who abused him emotionally. His mother had had no choice but to remarry very quickly after his biological father died in action in WW2.
2. He was extremely angry at losing the war in Rhodesia, and blamed, as it seems, feminine or socialist traits in the world at large for his sense of betrayal.
3. He couldn’t make a swift adjustment to the new social environment and start again easily from a lower social status, and was extremely angry about that.
4. His abuse by his stepfather and emotional neglect by his mother at a very early age had given him a borderline personality disorder, which became salient whenever he felt under stress.
So, I myself had to grow up under circumstances of extreme hostility, where my father basically replayed the scenario of his own rejection by his step-father and his rage at his mother in relation to me. At times he was the hostile and demeaning step-father (in relation to me) and at other times he was the raging two-year old, tearing strips off his “mother” (who I seemed to represent to him, at times) and hurling abuse about allegedly weaker feminine traits.
Now, add to this mix:
5. That he had been in the army for much of his life, indeed from his teenage years, and that an extremely common tendency in the military is to hurl abuse at others by accusing them of having “soft” or feminine traits in order to toughen them up. Misogyny is psychologically systematized in the military.
So I hope I have now explained to modern people, who still don’t get it, why my relationship with my father was so pivotal to developing a feminist consciousness.
I’m sure that other people haven’t had to bring themselves up within a blizzard of extreme animosity, but I had to try to do this, and I finally succeeded after many years.
I don’t take kindly to people to misunderstand or minimize my efforts, which were substantial.
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I hope you don’t think I wasn’t referring to you when I mentioned pseudo-feminists with Daddy issues. I was referring to the drama queens at Feministe and Shakesville, not you. I apologize if my comment sounded offensive to you. I’d never want to offend you!
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No, I THINK I knew you better that that, but I felt like making it very clear, just for general purposes, around now, what the situation was. I guess I would like it if more people would take into account situations like mine and stop dismissing them as not being particularly meaningful. Because when people deny the reality of those kinds of struggles, they show their extreme superficiality of their particular brand of identity politics. So that is why I am pointing it out. Also, I am forced to again come to terms with the limits the past has placed on me due to current political changes in Australia and they ways they may adversely affect me. Long term mistreatment leaves a horrible economic result and all I can say is that it’s amazing that I am in other manners so preserved. I had to fight some pretty nasty people.
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http://www.theonion.com/articles/no-way-to-prevent-this-says-only-nation-where-this,36131/
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This would be funny if it weren’t so true.
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“You should be embarrassed, as should Evelina, and several others.”
Embarrassed? That’s ridiculous. I’m not remotely embarrassed about anything I’ve expressed on this thread (or on this blog more largely.) We clearly have an issue in the US with young men going on shooting rampages and I think the frequency of these rampages partly stems from our culture of misogyny and patriarchy. It is also indisputable that MRAs, PUA, and PUA HATE perpetuate misogyny and patriarchy. Anyone who is a member of or who supports any of those groups should feel “embarrassed.” Honestly at this point any decent person who is a member of such a group should publicly renounce their allegiance, and apologize to all Americans for being part of such a violent, anti social, and hateful movement.
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Elliot was a member of the website PUAHate. Men posting there were so hate filled as to be mentally ill. Site such as that can damage the psyches of both males and females. But do not conflate that site with legitimate groups.
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Enough already with these boring online diagnoses of people you’ve never seen. You are making yourself ridiculous diagnozing illness sight unseen with zero qualifications. It’s boring, enough already.
You used to leave good, valuable comments. What suddenly put you into this broken record mode?
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And no, websites can’t damage psyches. Try to read up on human psychology at least before you start handing out diagnoses.
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Why are you so invested in defending these groups? Are you a member and feeling guilty? PUA-HATE is clearly a group. Just because they are loathsome doesn’t make them less of a group. They are a group of men who insistently and disgustingly proclaime their hatred of women.
Now innocent women (and men) are dead and the perpetrator of the crime publicly espoused PUA philosophy before he committed the crime. And yet you are interested in defending these group’s “right to speech” and trying to suggest that women are in prostitute-like thrall to men with “status” and expensive cars? Do you not understand the magnitude of this tragedy? Do you not see the horrible pattern that is emerging in American society?
I really don’t understand your love of these hate groups. It should be deeply embarrassing to speak of them in polite or educated society. Like admitting to being a member of the KKK. Perhaps you should consider why they are so attractive to you.
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I am not trying to defend PUA or PUA-HATE. But I do question calling the entire MRA a terrorist or hate group.
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I just came to a different conclusion than you ;-D
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“I just came to a different conclusion than you ;-D”
Clearly. The question is why are you so ardently defending groups that are akin to the KKK in terms of hatred and violence?
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My mistake, I meant to post that comment to Clarissa.
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MRA groups by definition attract men with a grudge against women in general and against ex-wives/ ex-girlfriends and the mens’ own children in particular. I have known divorced men who would not dream of not paying child support – these men don’t join MRA groups and stay, they get on with their lives. MRA and PUA groups are not generic “men’s clubs” in which the goal is to get together with other men and do something fun (locally, I might suggest the duck hunting clubs as an example).
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Actually, the largest Canadian MRA group basically argue for equality under law in the criminal, civil, and family court systems.
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Hi b g.
I do not know you, so please do not assume I am attributing any of the views discussed below to you personally. I had quite a lot of exposure to MRA recently… I met one of them at another forum about another subject, we learned a lot about each other, and as a result became somewhat emotionally invested in each other’s wellbeing. So I did my best effort giving MRA as much benefit of doubt as possible, and not only listened to that guy, but read some of his favorite websites. Yes, officially MRA groups argue for equality under law in the criminal, civil, and family court systems. However, the problem is – they attribute the existing inequality almost exclusively to some all-encompassing feminist conspiracy. (I do not idealize women’s right movement – any liberation movement sometimes strays into oppressing the former oppressors or just into too far-reaching generalizations… But this does not mean that there was (or is) no valid cause for the movement to begin with.) Once one gets into feminist conspiracy theory mode, everything said by women, or worse yet, feminists, becomes suspect. The very existence of “rape culture” is denied on the grounds that this is just a ruse feminists use to psychologically bully men into submission, or to lobby for government money for feminist causes, etc. MRA leaders are for some reason blind to entitlement issues within their movement… You can look at it any way you like – either this is a tactical move, or they really do not see what is wrong with this level of entitlement. But if it is a tactical issue – this still means MRA leaders have to be blind and mute not to offend their base, because they know what their base believes…
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“However, the problem is – they attribute the existing inequality almost exclusively to some all-encompassing feminist conspiracy.”
– I hate, hate, hate it when people mask psychological issues under the guise of political activism. This goes both for pseudo-feminists who confuse crappy personal lives and daddy issues with feminism and the MRAs who confuse crappy personal lives and mommy issues with fighting for gender equality. I feel extreme contempt for creatures that are so incapable of self-awareness.
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Good Afternoon valter07
Actually, the current inequality system was only partially because of feminist demands, some arrived via the traditional sympathetic rulings on females in court cases. The federally funded Status Of Women’s Judy Rebick’s insistence upon adding a subsection to the equality clause to our Charter to allow affirmative action.
I am rather dubious about “rape culture” and know nothing about any entitlement issues. Can you perhaps explain what exactly you are doubting?
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“Actually, the current inequality system was only partially because of feminist demands, some arrived via the traditional sympathetic rulings on females in court cases. . . I am rather dubious about “rape culture” and know nothing about any entitlement issues.”
– And here is precisely a case in point. Mommy issues, bad mean feminists are to blame for everything, whine whine whine, moan moan moan – and that’s all there is to this MRA crap. If I were to meet a single – and I mean a single one – MRA who didn’t immediately proceed to whine about how evil feminists hurt his feeeelings and stomped all over his tender eeeeemotions, I might be interested in hearing him out. But it’s all infantile drama, so who cares about these losers?
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Clarissa
Hmmm, I was looking through some of the MRA debates on children after divorces, mostly because it was so prevalent in the extended families of both my wife and myself…and appears to be increasing with each generation.
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I’m a firm believer in a 50/50 shared custody in at least 90% of cases. But the only people on the planet who are actually fighting for this and getting results are feminists. So if that’s what you really wanted to fight about (and get shit done) you’d be a feminist.
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Clarissa
Far too much water under the bridge for that. I was at university in the mid 60’s when the second wave showed up.
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“Far too much water under the bridge for that. I was at university in the mid 60′s when the second wave showed up.”
– This is a fight that is happening today. Tell me, are you even aware where the 50/50 custody in the absolute majority of cases has been achieved? I seriously doubt you have the slightest clue. Because in spite of all of your belly-aching, you leave this to the feminists to fight for.
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Relax, that battle has been going on for almost fifty years now. I am not about to voluntarily surrender ;-D
But give me a link and I’ll have a look at what you have.
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Ah, so big MRA champion of the rights of fathers has no clue about where these rights have been successfully defended and by whom. Once again, you are waiting for a feminist to do the work for you so that you can then whine about how this work is not up to your standards.
Man, you are a walking example of the MRA hypocrisy. So many words about the rights of fathers and you are too lazy even to conduct a simple search on this blog.
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LOL, you are making a lot of false presumptions ;-D
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What, is that all you’ve got to say about the hugely important issue of fathers’ rights? It’s all LOL to you? The plight of fathers and kids means nothing, in the end?
Just as I thought.
I don’t know what your purpose was in this thread but what you achieved is to discredit the MRA movement and present them as a collection of vapid, silly, verbose, superficial folks.
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LOL, okay, now that the ad hominem phase has been addressed, tell me what you really think ;-D
You have to remember, that my late wife and myself took our vows before you were born. Shortly afterward, no fault divorce appeared. Up until then, one needed adultery, abandonment, serious physical abuse or substance abuse, and the like, or a couple stayed together…literally “for better or worse, unto death do you part.” So one tried harder, one made it work, because one were expected to do so. There were greater responsibilities on a couple, but it was a much gentler time.
No fault made it easy, foolish feminist social workers insisted the kids would somehow be better off, we all know this isn’t so now. The consequences are terrific, rending that first of one’s trust and bonds are horrific and can be long term. Both sides of our family have many walking wounded, we tried all we could and salvaged one of my nephews and one of her nieces. The others are divorcing and marrying again and again, the girls always hopeful, but the guys are definitely now going MGTOW. I am hoping that is only because of our current economic uncertainty, but I do not know. So, I was simply looking for desperately needed answers, which is why I asked if you had a positive link.
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“Shortly afterward, no fault divorce appeared.”
– Thank God!
“Up until then, one needed adultery, abandonment, serious physical abuse or substance abuse, and the like, or a couple stayed together…literally “for better or worse, unto death do you part.” ”
– Horrible savagery.
“So one tried harder, one made it work, because one were expected to do so.”
– Translation: people forced themselves to sleep with partners they didn’t want to impress neighbors and relatives.
“There were greater responsibilities on a couple, but it was a much gentler time.”
– Yes, because it’s SO gentle to overcome a gag reflex every time you force yourself into bed with a person you don’t love just to please the stupid courts.
“No fault made it easy, foolish feminist social workers insisted the kids would somehow be better off, ”
– Of course, kids are a lot better off when they don’t have to live inside a loveless, sexless marriage where miserable, unfulfilled parents “try harder” to force themselves not to vomit in bed.
“The consequences are terrific, rending that first of one’s trust and bonds are horrific and can be long term.”
– the best thing responsible parents can do for their children is divorce the second they stop loving each other.
“The others are divorcing and marrying again and again,”
– Good for them!
“So, I was simply looking for desperately needed answers,”
– Answers to what? Needed by whom?
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“Well, those are the correct questions to ask. What I hear more often, however, is “not all men”. I hear that age-old horror of women’s anger drowning out everything else. Not all men are like this. Don’t look at us. Don’t shout at us. Please, don’t ask us to stand up and be counted.
One thing I’ve found, when talking to people involved in the savage end of the “Men’s Rights” community, the Pickup Artist scene, or both, is that to a chap they are keen that I understand the difference between their grouplet and the next – those guys over there hate women, those guys over there have a broken worldview, we’re the reasonable ones. And before the charges of book-burning and censorship begin: interpretation does change everything. There are certainly men out there who engage with the ideas of “Pickup Artistry” without absorbing the contemptuous misogyny at its core, much less pursuing it to its conclusion. One of my best relationships, in fact, was with a young man who swore by The Game as a handbook for shy boys who wanted to be able to talk to girls at parties, whilst mocking the sexism at its core. ”
http://www.newstatesman.com/lifestyle/2014/05/lets-call-isla-vista-killings-what-they-were-misogynist-extremism
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LOL, tell me, and truthfully, is your boyfriend guilty of all of this too ;-D
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You’re a really great star, you know that? You are the one with truly great insight on this blog. Secretly we all want to be like you, b-g. But we are small and we cannot help ourselves. You, on the other hand are The One.
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Okay, if you say so ;-D
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No, that is entire feminist horseshit, it always was. Children want their parents to bond, they utterly upon it. We have had to salvage too many, I am not buying your horseshit about some miserable life. We lived together for almost 45 years, she asked me to cuddle her bum that night like we were kids, but no poking because of her surgery, she was gone a few hours later. Get your head out of your bum, you are going to be embarrassed and you deserve it…again.
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But-tocks.
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Children of miserable sexless marriages are better off with their parents becoming not miserable and not sexless. The only thing that children of loveless marriages can learn is how to reproduce this misery. And so the misery continues for generations. Until one brave soul chooses to break this circle and gives hope to everybody by ending this ridiculous charade.
The only point of living is to be happy. Forcing yourself to stay with somebody you no longer love is masochism.
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One chooses to be happy or unhappy.
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Exactly. People choose to be happy and divorce.
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Yes, always be honest…and as a male, I do truly appreciate girl bums and I wish you well ;-D
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That’s a great revelation — and thank you for your honesty, especially regarding your buttocks preference. It is always much better than meeting an American liar.
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No sweat, she loved spooning, and so did I. I finally got angry because of the self absorbed reference to miserable and sexless marriages. One chooses that, or one takes their vows seriously…and tries to make the other happy. Feminism has always been selfish and thus unhappy.
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If your marriage was happy, that’s great. But we are talking about people who are miserable and want to get divorced.
You are the one to talk about selfish, seriously. Not everything is about you, man. You are insisting that OTHER people should suffer because you were happy. That’s completely warped.
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Clarissa
LOL, love can be a verb. Do you understand that?
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“LOL, love can be a verb. Do you understand that?”
– Man, there are 181 comments in the thread. Do you really think there is any need to spam it with these Dr. Phil-type trivialities?
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You want the government to tell people whom to fuck. Do you realize how wrong that is?
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LOL, remember that you were the one advising governmental authority to investigate those disagreeing with you on this subject.
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“LOL, remember that you were the one advising governmental authority to investigate those disagreeing with you on this subject.”
– Yes, exactly. And you want the government to force people to sleep with unwanted partners. Tell me, what’s worse?
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LOL, you’re giving me the choice of being hung or having to fight the mad dog ;-D
Okay, I choose the latter, particularly if there are children involved. Reconciliation is possible if the marriage hasn’t descended to the level of open contempt. At that point, continuation would harm the children.
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“Reconciliation is possible if the marriage hasn’t descended to the level of open contempt.”
– You have decided what is or isn’t possible for people you’ve never met and want the law to uphold this baseless opinion of yours? And you expect to be taken seriously with this line of argument?
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Seems like a logical outlook to me. Just throwing out your spouse like so much garbage does not seem right. But then feminism always seemed rather self absorbed and mean spirited to me.
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Feminists if your group claims to be all about equality and says it will address the issues men face then WOMAN THE FU*K UP AND DO IT!! feminism has been around how long? 75-100+ years and yet all they have shown the world is their movement is misandry and racism. your group was soo quick to shove VAWA into law yet in the nearly 20 years its been around feminism has done NOTHING to ensure MEN are protected from domestic violence at the hands of women. Your group gives a pass to 25+ yr old female teachers having sex with underage boys (that’s RAPE if you didn’t know) and all the while doing its damest to make sure women whom commit the same crime as men DON’T serve the same punishment or any punishment at all. Your group was so quick to ONLY talk about the shooting victims of Roger Elliot all the while ignoring the male victims and even distorting the facts to serve their own personal agenda. Feminism is ONLY about female privilege and superiority. I will go at this till the HATE group known as feminism is wiped out of the face of existence.
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“in the nearly 20 years its been around feminism has done NOTHING to ensure MEN are protected from domestic violence at the hands of women.”
– Why do you need women to introduce such laws? The absolute majority of the legislature is male. If men wanted this law, it would be passed.
“Your group gives a pass to 25+ yr old female teachers having sex with underage boys (that’s RAPE if you didn’t know)”
– I agree that it’s rape. And every feminist I know agrees, too.
” all the while doing its damest to make sure women whom commit the same crime as men DON’T serve the same punishment or any punishment at all.”
– You are confused. feminists oppose all that.
‘Feminism is ONLY about female privilege and superiority.”
– Only idiots use the word “privilege.”
” I will go at this till the HATE group known as feminism is wiped out of the face of existence.”
– Maybe you should go at improving your writing skills first. Because everything you say is wrong and your writing is very bad.
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@ b g: Do you really think that no fault divorced should be outlawed? You think the state should have a say in when two people decide to end their marriage? Do you really think that? Or am I misunderstanding you?
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The state already has that say. Not only in how a marriage begins, but in deciding the terms under which it is ended…including how the children are to live, and how material goods and earning power are divided. Once a marriage degenerates to the point of contempt, reconciliation seems unlikely. But we need to think about the consequences. Sadly, too many young men have concluded that the risks are too great, that’s what MGTOW is about.
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And you want to give the state even more power? Why?
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Do you have an alternative? If MGOTW is more than a passing phase created by the current economic conditions, we are in serious trouble. If it increases significantly, marriage as an institution will fail, and society will collapse.
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What’s this MGTOW that has you so scared?
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I believe it is the largest group of the MRA. Let’s hope it is just the economy.
https://www.avoiceformen.com/sexual-politics/m-g-t-o-w/mgtow-and-female-disapproval-2/
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