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I don’t want to hire any more women.
Yes, I said it. You cringed when you read it and I cringed when I wrote it, and even more so when the thought first occurred to me. I am a woman, a feminist, a mother, and a passionate entrepreneur. I don’t just stand for equality – I have crashed the glass ceiling in every aspect of my life. I get extremely angry when I come across articles that insist there are gender differences that extend beyond physiology. I am fortunate to have had female role models who taught me through their own examples that I can accomplish absolutely anything I desire.
Over the years, I have hired outstanding women – educated, intelligent and highly articulate. Yet, I am exhausted. I have become profoundly tired of being a therapist and a babysitter, of being drawn into passive-aggressive mental games and into constantly questioning my own worth as a manager. I have had several women who quit to stay home to “figure out what to do next”. No, not to stay home and care for children, but to mooch of a husband or a boyfriend while soul searching (aka: taking a language class or learning a new inapplicable skill that could be acquired after work). Incidentally, I have not had a single male employee quit with no plan in mind.
I have had women cry in team meetings, come to my office to ask me if I still like them and create melodrama over the side of the office their desk was being placed. I am simply incapable of verbalizing enough appreciation to female employees to satiate their need for it for at least a week’s worth of work. Here is one example to explain. My receptionist was resigning and, while in tears, she told me that although she was passionate about our brand and loved the job, she could not overcome the fact that I did not thank her for her work. It really made me stop in my tracks and so I asked for an example. “Remember when I bought the pictures with butterflies to hang in the front? And you just came and said ‘thank you’? That is a perfect example!” – “Wait”, I said, “So, I did thank you then?” – “Yes! But you did not elaborate on what exactly you liked about them! Why didn’t you?” She had bought them with the company credit card and I actually did not like them at all, but I digress.
I have developed a different approach for offering constructive criticism to male and female employees. When I have something to say to one of the men, I just say it! I don’t think it through – I simply spit it out, we have a brief discussion and we move on. They even frequently thank me for the feedback! Not so fast with my female staff. I plan, I prepare, I think, I run it through my business partner and then I think again. I start with a lot of positive feedback before I feel that I have cushioned my one small negative comment sufficiently, yet it is rarely enough. We talk forever, dissect every little piece of it, and then come back to the topic time and time again in the future. And I also have to confirm that I still like them – again and again, and again.
I am also yet to have a single male employee come to my office to give me dirt on a co-worker or share an awkward gossip-like story. My female employees though? Every. single. one.
When I opened my company, I was excited for many reasons. One of them was wanting to make it an amazing place for women to build their careers. After all, we were two women, both mothers with very small children, opening a company in a very competitive industry. I was going to celebrate the achievements of my female hires, encourage them to find their voices, celebrate their pregnancies and year-long maternity leaves, be understanding and accommodating when they would have to juggle work/daycare/school schedules. Yet, I had no idea that the problems women faced in their workplace were often far removed from the typical inequalities feminism continues to address. It is not men who sabotage women and stump their career growth – it is women themselves!
What is at the root of the problem? Lack of confidence? Wrong upbringing? What am I not seeing? Is there something else I should be doing as a manager? I welcome your comments, as I secretly continue placing the resumes of female applicants into the “call later” folder.
The post was written by a guest blogger but the veracity of every aspect of the story has been verified by Blogger Clarissa.
WARNING: People in the past 2 hours I have had to Spam 63 comments from losers who tried to inform me that “men and women are psychologically / emotionally, etc. different.” Once again, anybody who embarrasses him or herself by chirping idiotically “yes, men and women are different” will be banned outright. This will be my small investment into sparing these losers further public embarrassment. Stop wasting your time, such comments are not going through on my blog.
Clarissa's Blog 
I haven’t cried once at work or University, and I have honestly never seen another woman cry in a professional setting. Now that I teach almost all-female classes I have still yet to see one of my students cry.
I have however seen countless men doing careless work, not listening to others (especially women), bullshitting their way through work and claiming they understand things which they didn’t solely to fight for their position in the hierarchy. On the other hand, I have experienced women to be very careful, self-critical and much more honest and my collaborations with them have gone better with men.
This is just to say: experiences differ. 🙂
Maybe it has to do with my own expectations about men and women. From observing my parents, my expectation is that women are more analytical and controlled, and men are more emotional.
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I have never been praised publicly after doing something correctly, and i never expected it. I later got good reviews about my work but that is all.
But, ofc i am a male. Working with one female is ok, sometimes even better than working with a man, but working with 2 or more women in the same team = hell.
Yes, i agree about women boycotting each other… Competition 24/7… Same with looks, women dress up in order to be better than the other girls around, to receive more attention than them. This is very easy to see in a one only female office vs a several female worker office.
I would not hire several women neither, worst working environment i had was being in charge of 8 women and 0 men… Fights between them weekly, no respect at all, not following orders… Every single day someone was ill… Never again…
Men are simple, women are complicated.
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You’re just bitter and you’re trying to blame your employees for your own inadequacies.
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Ha! Profound and helpful. What am I bitter about?
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Here is a thought, you are letting the women-folk walk all over you. My suggestion is to buy a large box of kleenex tissues. The type of box that has individual boxes of tissues in them. When someone comes to you to gossip, give her a box and tell her the next time she does this to just pack up her desk and go home and then tell her to get back to her job. The next time time one of your gals comes to you with a special need of just having to discuss the recent meeting give her a box of tissues and tell her you are paying her to solve the problem not talk about solving the problem.
You are not their friend. They are not yours. They are your employees. You pay them to do the work you don’t have time to do. Why do you let them take up your time?
The only resource you have that is limited is your time. Your female employees are stealing that time and you are letting them get away with it. The time you spend consulting with your partner about a female’s special need is time wasted.
One thing you might also say to the next time-waster, be thankful you got a box of kleenex, you might just get a pink slip instead. You probably won’t have to do this to every female, the word will spread rapidly. Make sure your stack of boxes sits right behind you at your desk. More than enough to handle all your women-folk. Some males might be in need of one as well. Eventually you can have the stack removed.
This sounds mean, but it really isn’t. You didn’t get into your business to become a counselor. If one of your females comes up and asks you if you still like them, hand them a box and tell them point blank, “I don’t like you. I never have and I never will. Here’s a box of tissues to ease your pain. I don’t dislike you either. I didn’t hire you because I like you. I hired you to do (Insert her job). Likes and dislikes are luxuries I can’t afford. Ask me again and that box will be a pink slip. Have a good day.”
If you want to know why they are acting the way they are acting, that is a distasteful subject, full of sexism and ageism and all sorts of rage inducing comments.
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I cannot stop laughing – this is a post in itself.
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You are welcome.
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My experience is quite different. I have had women working for me in positions ranging from Sales Director to various Engineering Manager jobs…with the groups they were running usually encompassing both men and women, sometimes as subordinate managers…and have generally not had these problems.
Yeah, there have been emotional situations…crying (though never in meetings) and the occasional knife-in-the-back attempt, but I’ve encountered inappropriate emotional behavior from men, too.
I did find your assertion “I get extremely angry when I come across articles that insist there are gender differences that extend beyond physiology” to be interesting, and wonder what you base this belief in absolute similarity on, unless it is some kind of religious revelation. The “extremely angry” part is worrying…I have to wonder if you find it difficult to be exposed to information that conflicts with your deeply-held beliefs, and hence if you suffer from even more confirmation bias than the general run of people…and whether this leads to problems in hiring and management.
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Well, I hardly think that my post can be basis for psychoanalysis and my probable anger management issues.
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A manager’s own psychology is highly relevant to the way she or he performs their job: I thought you were looking for insights.
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It seems that you’re not the only feminist who has come to this conclusion regarding female employees:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-1168182/Catfights-handbags-tears-toilets-When-producer-launched-women-TV-company-thought-shed-kissed-goodbye-conflict-.html
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Serious people don’t quote Daily Mail. It’s toilet reading.
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So because she recounted her story on the Daily Mail that makes it irrelevant?
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“So because she recounted her story on the Daily Mail that makes it irrelevant?”
– Tabloids lie. Didn’t you know that? Not a single article published by a single tabloid has ever been true. Everybody knows that all these tabloid stories are invented.
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I guess in the future I’ll have to rely solely on bloggers such as yourself to get my daily dose of truth. Because everyone knows that bloggers never fabricate stories, right?
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“I guess in the future I’ll have to rely solely on bloggers such as yourself to get my daily dose of truth. ”
– Are you aware of no other sources of information but bloggers and tabloids? Seriously?
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Entrepreneur may be hiring women who reflect an aspect of herself.
She may be hiring women who do not threaten her.
Maybe she wants to be the smartest woman around, and unconsciously hires women who are inferior to her.
MEN DO THAT TOO. But men hire weak, non-threatening men – who do the job. But this isn’t a good situation: they aren’t doing the job. Because their real job is to make the boss feel that all is going well. Not take up the boss’s time and annoy the boss for nothing. They aren’t doing their job, because the boss does not feel all is going well.
None of the above is a crime. Just a possibility. No negative is meant. People do all sorts of things and Entrepreneur did ask for help.
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“Entrepreneur may be hiring women who reflect an aspect of herself. She may be hiring women who do not threaten her. Maybe she wants to be the smartest woman around, and unconsciously hires women who are inferior to her.”
– You do know you are talking about yourself here, right?
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Yearlong maternity leave and all I have to do to be better than all other female candidates is behave like a professional? Egads, I wish I could sign up.
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Hear, hear!
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// I was going to celebrate the achievements of my female hires […] Yet, I had no idea that the problems women faced in their workplace […] it is women themselves!
I think (almost) any group in a worse condition both is discriminated against in many (work)places and self-sabotages. Women, poor (I believe culture of poverty exists, as many sociological studies claim), some blacks in USA (because of culture of poverty, which is, like the case with women, a matter of socialization, unsuitable for success in capitalist workplace), etc.
If you want to help any disadvantaged groups (by not refusing to hire them), you must be ready to find out they aren’t ideal. A history of discrimination seldom affects its subjects in a good way. It becomes self-fulfilling prophesy, which also has been shown in studies.
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I’d question your hiring practices and whether you’re hiring the wrong people. Crying on the job and needing validation all the time isn’t professional behaviour – there are many women who never exhibit these traits. Why don’t you hire them? Also, if you’re not aware of your male employees’ gossip, then you’re out of the loop. Men gossip all the time – it’s just they tend to see it as exchanging information. But the content is typically the same.
It’s also highly inappropriate for a junior employee like a receptionist to be feeling comfortable enough to tell you off for not validating her feelings, if you’re her employer. And why are you engaging in soft talk and therapy with your employees? People react according to the incentives you give them. It sounds like you’re acting like a therapist – so don’t be surprised if your employees emotionally dump on you.
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I don’t actually engage in these conversations – what I have been doing (and am now stopping) is softening my approach and cushioning my feedback.
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Also, I do not care who gossips – what I cannot stand is people throwing others under the bus instead of taking ownership for their own actions (or lack thereof). I have a new example from today’s workday: I brought two of my male employees into my office to discuss a situation they had mismanaged. I explained, they gave me their insight, we agreed on a future plan of action and that was it. Under 5 minutes. Every time I have a similar situation with my female employees it takes at least five times that amount of time. And they go back to the discussion in future meetings!
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Interesting to read many of the comments here. A large number of them suggesting that there must be something wrong with E’s management style, that she’s prejudiced against women, etc. Anything to avoid the possibility that her views might have some veracity. As a small employer myself I have six full timers of which two are women. Can’t complain myself because everyone on the team is top notch. And in teems of non-producing slackers, I’ve seen them from both sides of the isle, so to speak. The female interviewees in the past have definitely had a greater sense of entitlement despite being less technically adept than the male interviewees, but I don’t interview enough people to say whether it is a pattern or the luck of the draw.
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Here’s a little insight into some women compared to some men. A while back I noticed Muster getting upset that someone was clicking “thumbs down” to a lot of her comments. It visibly upset her and she made several remarks in relation to it. Most men I know would not have even come close to making a comment about it. It may have bothered them but most would remain silent. Generally, there are differences, whether people want to admit that is another issue. 😛
For entrepeneur I think its important you take stock as you are doing and ask yourself is it really worth the energy with the average woman compared to the average man.
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Since there’s only one person on this blog who is so preoccupied with musteryou, I have now guessed what your avatar used to be. 🙂
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Ah, now isn’t that interesting. Someone has installed a video camera in my house and has been watching my typical feminine mannerisms as I made my observations about things.
I didn’t realize that people could be so shrewd, but now I know it.
So how did the camera get installed in the first place?
I’m very curious!
I’m inclined to suspect it may have been an imaginary camera installed in the mind of the one doing the imagining, but there may be something about technology I do not know.
So, how was it ascertained that I was “visibily” upset?
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“I’m inclined to suspect it may have been an imaginary camera installed in the mind”
a.k.a. “objective reality”
Doesn’t matter what the content of those remarks were or your purpose for writing them, because that information is too sensitive for the all-seeing camera to capture. The images are rather grainy. But we can still make out your womanly silhouette in this grainy photo – and that’s all we need to know about you to really know you…
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I’m sure there is a high level of emotion being emitted — specifically (and not more than) the material contained in a highly conventional and rather fearful male mind.
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Ah the sarcasm. And the white knight hk rides to the rescue.
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white knight haiku? Sounds good. I need several. I will be visually ecstatic.
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Im sure you will. Do another vid so we all can see how much. 😉
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hahahah. I haven’t made any videos lately. I did do one on my midweek martial arts training, but there is not much to it. The other videos have some philosophical content and some more general musings. That is what they have in them.
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I like your martial art vids. You have almost perfected not punching like a chick, almost. 😉
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“So, how was it ascertained that I was “visibily” upset?”
– Through our old trusty friend, projection.
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@Clarissa
Yes, you have taught it well.
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It’s a testimony to my incredible blogging talent that even in a thread of 232 comments people easily say “it” and expect me to know what “it” refers to.
I’m very brilliant.
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You do realize that is one of the main reason I read your blog. Your brilliance is interesting and educational. Mind you, you are a little nuts sometimes, but hey, we all have our crosses to bear. 😛
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@JT
“And the white knight hk rides to the rescue.”
As a woman, I can be a white knight? *claps hands excitedly and squeals*
But seriously, you think I commented to rescue her – when I don’t even think she’s in need of rescuing…
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Hkatz: you routinely leave brilliant comments that rescue the entire blog from boredom.
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“Hkatz: you routinely leave brilliant comments that rescue the entire blog from boredom.”
Thanks, but this blog wouldn’t become boring, even without my comments 🙂
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Hkatz
I thought feminists could be whatever they wished. You got balls, so you can be a white knight too. lmao.
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Oh come on, I havnt chatted her up in a dogs age. 😛
You know Im right though. 🙂
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Oh, by the way, there is someone else who loves her more than me. The one who clicks the thumb. 😉
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One suggestion? Start keeping record of how each of your employees reacts to certain things, on a spreadsheet or chart (however is easy for you to organize). That way you can see in front of you, in black and white, the difference between the two sexes. I’m not at all expecting you’d see a different answer, however. Do you have an equal partner at your business? Have them do the same, and compare notes.
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All very interesting but you should be thankful you are a woman, you can get away with writing such a thing, you could probably get away with writing that you didn’t want to hire men anymore. Can you imagine a man, not only holding such a position, but coming here and making a blog post on it? His company would be made to suffer I assure you. But then again, who ever said this was a free country?
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There is treatment available for paranoiacs. Have you tried seeking help for it?
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Thank you for proving my point.
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“Thank you for proving my point.”
– Seriously? A 541-comment thread and you decide it is crucially important to clutter it with “Thank you for proving my point” a propos of pretty much nothing? And I’m supposed to remember who the hell you are and know what this idiotic chirping is supposed to refer to? Do you consider yourself mentally stable? Because you are not managing to make such an impression.
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“I get extremely angry when I come across articles that insist there are gender differences that extend beyond physiology.”
That’s your first mistake. Insisting that the differences between male and female are ‘social constructs’ as opposed to biological and neurological in spite of the evidence to the contrary (both scientific and observations – your own included) means you will be forever spinning your wheels trying to explain the differences. Different expectations? Discrimination? Policy failure? Etc.
Evidently this is a generalization (which is perfectly legitimate. We can’t discuss people without generalizing) but one must be willing to look at explanations that don’t fit with the accepted narrative.
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“That’s your first mistake. Insisting that the differences between male and female are ‘social constructs’ as opposed to biological and neurological in spite of the evidence to the contrary (both scientific and observations – your own included) ”
– Such evidence does not exist.
“Evidently this is a generalization (which is perfectly legitimate. We can’t discuss people without generalizing) but one must be willing to look at explanations that don’t fit with the accepted narrative.”
– Another person with ridiculously poor writing skills and zero education.
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There is plenty of evidence. It’s simply unpalatable to most. The social explanations for the differences are increasingly inadequate.
Poor writing skills? Now, now. I’ll have to go discuss your hurtful comments with a counselor in order to feel validated and whole.
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Apollyon, you are stupid and boring. Please go away. You are embarrassing yourself butting into a conversation between people who are vastly superior to you.
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Wow, this is hilarious. It’s like seeing reddit’s IAmVerySmart page come to life and interact with real people. You should go into comedy!
https://polldaddy.com/js/rating/rating.js
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Jeez, finally somebody with a sense of humor. Thank you for not being a humorless idiot like so many others.
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Now, now Apollo, make sure its an analyst instead of a counselor. 😉
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Just cause this is funny. 🙂
https://scontent-a-ord.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/v/t1.0-9/10245445_10152139679276700_7990133035512208420_n.jpg?oh=cabd7b26eee7fd45451074aaa87c0bcc&oe=53FAB3BC
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apollyon911 said “There is plenty of evidence. It’s simply unpalatable to most. ”
This is another Americanism. Sure, there is snot dripping down my nose and that is unpalatable news to most. But humans are not innately disgusting or born in sin, fearing the truth and having to have it forcefed to them by some God fearing man representing Absolute Reality.
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Hello Clarissa, welcome to the world of being an employer.
You may notice that most “gender social construct” and feminists are not employers.
You may also notice that most of those in your classes 15 years ago are not employers either.
I would say it’s a good bet that most of them depend on the gov for handouts, jobs and subsidy while spouting the same stuff you did, but never having the guts to go out and prove how good and independent they really are.
People are paid to do a job efficiently without the kindy treatment.
If they can’t, fire them and replace them. And surprise…most are men lol.
Once again welcome to reality.
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What is it, an advent of losers and brain-dead chirpers to the blog? Wake up, Phero, and try to read the pits you are commenting on. Clarissa is not an employer.
Do you manage to sit upright without toppling over with this degree of awareness?
God, I hate idiots.
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Two thoughts after reading the blog and a good share of the comments.
First, it might be helpful to think of this in terms of the types of personalities we attract into our lives. Usually, this is talked about in terms of romantic relationships, but more broadly we tend to reproduce dynamics of our early life in our adult relationships. Perhaps the women who make it through the three interview process at your company reflect relationships you (and/or the others responsible for conducting interviews) had with a sibling or someone else with whom a particular relationship dynamic is still playing out today.
Getting clarity on such personal dynamics can help in identifying red flags to look for during the hiring process. And again, if you aren’t the only person interviewing and/or making the final hiring decision, it isn’t just your dynamics that are at play. This would require all those involved in the hiring process to do some work.
However, this doesn’t address the problem you have right now: you’ve already hired employees who take a lot of energy to manage. Worse, when you try to change your management style to shift that culture, the passive-aggressive behaviors get turned outward, and the rest of your staff suffer.
Here’s the thing: Your staff were suffering even when you were taking this all on yourself, because they need you to be managing the company, and you can’t do that as effectively if you’re energy is going to being a counselor and confidant.
So, what to do? Here’s my suggestion: bring in an HR person with the background and experience to fulfill a specific mandate: to do the emotional labor of shifting the culture. This means not only checking the passive-aggressive behavior of those who don’t appreciate your change in management style, but also keeping you on track as you work to change that management style.
Now, this means hiring someone for a job function your company doesn’t currently have. You may already have HR staff, but they aren’t tasked with this. You’re trying to do it on your own.
Is it worth the investment to create this new position? To answer that, consider all the work you might be doing to grow and advance your company’s mission if only you weren’t so busy managing the emotional lives of so many of your employees. If recovering that opportunity cost is worth the overhead of a new employee (or consultant? idunno, maybe), then do it.
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I find the first part of your comment helpful and aligned with the comments I had found particularly useful so far. As I am indeed the common denominator in these situations, I am certainly an active participant and a contributor to the issue. On a side note, I am “allergic” to HR (I am opening myself to another attack here, I know), so I would do any soul searching I possibly need and can before I would consider an HR department. However, that is a story for a different post. 😉
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“On a side note, I am “allergic” to HR (I am opening myself to another attack here, I know), so I would do any soul searching I possibly need and can before I would consider an HR department. However, that is a story for a different post.”
– Yes, please. Let’s stir another hornets’ nest with that one! We can call it, “Why HR Is Useless.”
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Okay, I get that. So perhaps not “HR”, as such. A supporting executive/lateral managerial position might be another way to structure what I’m suggesting, or maybe a consultant is the way to go. Shifting the culture can be a full-time endeavor in and of itself, so it is worth considering bringing someone on board with the experience to move that process forward.
After all, if the issues you describe were easy to figure out and resolve, you’d have figured them out and resolved them already. Like any other skill set, you need to decide for your business whether its something you would best hire for, or whether you can make it work with the skills you and your employees already have.
That all said, glad to have planted a seed for a future post. 🙂
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I write essays for my two young boys to read some day, and think the ones about social confidence and social norms answer Entrepreneur’s questions.
http://davidvs.net/hobbies/masculinity-confidence.shtml
http://davidvs.net/hobbies/masculinity-norms.shtml
I expect that if Entrepreneur could test for social confidence (as I define it) in her job interviews she would cease to have trouble with women employees.
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i wonder if any of this has to do with a person’s sensitivity to the fucking annoying aspects of their own gender. for instance, i’m a man and other men are exhausting to be around with their constant posturing and maneuvering for dominance, it requires a huge amount of thought (though it’s more subtle than what’s described in the article, being noticeable mostly in its absence).
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I am indeed sensitive to people who choose to quit jobs and do nothing with their lives.
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Maybe this is more of a society problem than just a “women in the workplace” issue. Being held to certain standards physically and emotionally takes a toll. But it’s almost expected of women to act a certain way at work is it not? If you tell a person they are dumb repeatedly do they not eventually believe it? We are told that we are overly emotional, that we cannot handle the pressures, etc. So then we stand our ground saying “I’m emotional – I can’t handle it”. What we need to enforce is “it’s not personal, it’s just business” over and over and over again. But society defines us (men and women) so much by their job, their looks, their everything except that core person. I admit I take things way way to personally at work. Sometimes I think I’m justified and hold my ground, other times it takes my husband or uncle to give me perspective. It just does. I agree with the sentiment that the WORK should be appreciated not the person. Maybe what we as a gender need to do is make it clear in the workplace what is and is not acceptable. If you don’t want to hear the gossip, especially as the boss, tell them it is not appropriate in the workplace. There are always two people in a conversation one talking and one listening. If you tell them you choose not to listen, the conversation stops. I’d like to personally be more business focused (not more manly) in the work place. A lot of our emotion helps us take a different perspective. We don’t all have to be the same, but we can enforce work place propriety. Just my two cents.
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PS – that isn’t to BLAME to society – it is to just find the source for which change needs to be implemented.
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Guy here, leading a team of 5 developers out of which one is a woman fitting this bill. I dare not say all women like you do! Anyway she has had trouble working with people before but her stint with me happens to be most productive and longest.
It is not like I didnt face problems. I was clever and most of the times fixed things up with the guys beforehand. It didn’t take long to convince the guys of the situation. With her we would concede defeat on issues that might have blown up otherwise. Sometimes talk really low of myself, trivialize details just to get her to try things she would otherwise never take up. I totally understand the fatigue Clarissa is subjected to, it feels distinctly different to work with mature men or women.
Shenanigans, is something productive men and women manage to remove actively from their careers.
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Guy here, leading a team of 5 developers out of which one is a woman fitting this bill. I dare not say all women like you do! Anyway she has had trouble working with people before but her stint with me happens to be most productive and longest.
It is not like I didnt face problems. I was clever and most of the times fixed things up with the guys beforehand. It didn’t take long to convince the guys of the situation. With her we would concede defeat on issues that might have blown up otherwise. Sometimes talk really low of myself, trivialize details just to get her to try things she would otherwise never take up. I totally understand the fatigue Clarissa is subjected to, it feels distinctly different to work with mature men or women.
Shenanigans, is something productive men and women manage to remove actively from their careers. People who don’t, do stand out like a sore these days.
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Thank you, Varsha, for your intelligent comment.
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Didnt Varsha pretty much just say men and women are different, as in, he treats the woman in his employment in a specific way that it seems he doesnt treat his male employee’s? In fact, he has to explain to his male employee’s how its all going to work. Talk about infantilizing.
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Behave differently and are different are two completely different things. I know you know that but just can’t let go of this thread. 🙂 🙂
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I made it clear I was being specific with “fitting the bill”. It means my boss who is a woman does not surprise me with a problem of the day. She probably takes it out on some one else, but has that decency to not bring it to work.
I am pissed enough to say, this is the typical padding I used to do. jeez JT
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I really like this article. Sometimes I have these self-loathing moments because of some aspects of myself that I identify as common among girls. This may not be a positive realization in itself, but at least it lets me recognize that I can’t just be willful and take off my own responsibility because I’m too sensitive, or I feel weak. My feelings may be hurt at times, but I know I have to suck it up. And I’m proud when I become stronger afterward.
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You have a lot to be proud of!
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The experiences you shared seem to be indicative of a larger trend. People just don’t want to change. In your case, you’ve hired women who have used the techniques you mentioned to avoid change in their work lives for many years. They are effective. What confuses me is that the men in your group seemed so willing to change. That tells me that either we’re letting women get away with things they shouldn’t or that the men in your business received unique experiences that forced them to adapt. I only hope that women in business will push themselves to adapt to challenging environments.
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Stumbled across this post – was entertaining to read and while I don’t doubt its validity at all, I also couldn’t help but being really surprised at the amount of women that actually are doing this in your company. Being a woman myself and also working for a few variety of companies, managing people, and observing the women around me, I have never seen it that bad. And maybe I’m just an anomaly (though I never thought I was), but I avoid drama like the plague, never gossip about my coworkers or gossip at all, have never cried in a review or team meeting, and take constructive criticism like a boss.
That being said, I’m learning a lot recently about hearing from people’s experiences with women – mainly raising girls and managing women, and how much more of an emotional wreck women can be. I’m finding it really interesting, coming from a place where I’ve never personally experienced many crazy emotional ups and downs, don’t really come in contact with it too often, don’t have kids, and have always had a more feminist-like mindset. I have however observed that women tend to be more submissive in everyday interactions and I’m sure that’s a very deeply ingrained thing at this point.
I bet there are many intelligent women out there who also think that they are less emotionally-driven but I wonder how much of that we actually have control of. Of course it’s a case-by-case basis type of thing and the brain is a complicated thing, but I can see in a lot of cases women trying not to be that way (or denying that part of them) and then becoming overly aggressive or assertive to compensate, which actually still classifies as emotionally-driven. Overall it’s rare to find any person, woman or man, in touch with their emotions – not blocking them out or denying them, just aware of them and in balance with them, therefore not being overly reactive to them or replacing them with some other way of being that isn’t true to their nature.
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Can I hire you?
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I’m a male software engineer in my 30’s.
Hands down my best bosses over the years have been women. My girlfriend, who is from Taiwan, manages many women for her job. She has zero of the characteristics you outlined above while many of the American women she manages fit these descriptions exactly. Not sure what American culture teaches women here but it is some lame BS. There is no expectation of being a princess in Taiwan…no matter who you are male or female, your ass is working and not making excuses.
I believe these are cultural problems and not problems inherent to any gender. In college, I attended computer science training with many smart foreign women from Europe, India and South America who worked their f*cking asses off to land great careers at GE etc and had no princess syndrome.
Americas cultural diseases are many and endemic princess syndrome is one of them. I’m sure there are male equivalents…bro culture?
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Thank you, Derper! This is a great, very intelligent comment.
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“Americas cultural diseases are many and endemic princess syndrome is one of them. I’m sure there are male equivalents…bro culture?”
Right. This is what I was thinking, too. So much of the thread is not very intelligible to me because these are specifically American cultural issues. It’s not that Australia has not become to some degree Americanized, but whenever I hear “women are emotional” or “women are sensitive” I have to try to put myself into the mind of a fundamentalist Christian and see the world from the point of view where each gender represents a partial person. Perhaps women are half a person and men are three-quarters of a person. That’s the only way any of this makes sense.
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” So much of the thread is not very intelligible to me because these are specifically American cultural issues.”
– Same here. I have, as of now, spammed over 90 (!) comments where people were repeating like crazed parrots “Men and women ARE different.” Just imagine the degree of terror one has to feel when facing the world to need these repetitions addressed to a vacuum. There is so much fear and so much rage in them that somebody dared to question the only certainty they think they have. They are so empty at the core that all they have to fill the gaping void are these incantations. It’s like their religion.
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I don’t know what they hope to gain by those assertions. They reduce quality of life (not experiencing the complexity) and also put the person making the assertion at a disadvantage.
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They don’t have a life. They have a shiftless, aimless existence that they try to invest with meaning through conforming to the narrative of gender stereotypes. Theirs is the primal fear, ‘If these binaries are meaningless, then why have I subjected everything in my life to upholding them?’
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I can’t even imagine being a person who thinks that way, but of course my imagination is limited.
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Hi there, wow. I’ll try my best to keep this brief.
Context: I’m a guy, late-20s, working in a consulting firm, Asia
Reaction to article: Surprise, followed by recognition of the problem, and similarity to actual events.
Here’s the story:
I work in a consulting firm, and have a female colleague at my workplace of similar age.
She has equivalent academic standing, more experience than myself in consulting (about 6-7 months more), and is at the same level as myself in the firm.
Difference in her experience at the firm vs. mine:
I take any feedback that I receive for what it is. Distill the parts necessary to make myself a better worker, and ignore the parts which I feel are unnecessary and prejudiced – based on my best judgement. This was a long hard process, because when I started out, I used to take feedback extremely personally, get depressed, and complain to my friends about how there was no appreciation in the firm. This changed over a period of time when my mentor kept beating into me the fact that I shouldn’t take it personally but value it for what it is: Feedback.
Switch to her. She experienced a similar situation when she started. She took feedback personally like anyone else. There were situations when I saw her crying and leaving for the restroom. She complained to me as I did about my supervisor etc. too.
Problem is, it hasn’t changed. I understand that different people treat things differently. But I feel like she’s still stuck in the past and still can’t take feedback. It’s been 1 year now and she’s stuck in the same position whereas I’ve been promoted once since then. She’s constantly paranoid about getting fired, and worries that the people in her team hate her. Whenever she receives any feedback – she gets defensive. All in all, it’s alright that this happen, and I understand that it gets better over time. But it hasn’t.
As her friend, I tried to listen to her, understand what she was saying, and suggested some simple ways of dealing with the problems. Better communication with the manager, better communication with her fellow team members, pushing back when necessary instead of overloading herself with responsibilities, etc. But to no avail.
Everytime we have a discussion about the work culture it comes back to routine discussions about how it’s flawed instead of ways of working around it.
Simply put, instead of thinking of constructive ways of changing things or learning to accept things, she’s still on the route of complaining about things and taking everything personally to heart. I would have assumed that her mentor/manager/team members would have something to do with it – but…. I’ve worked with all of them before, and have had a perfectly fine, professional experience. Curt, feedback which stings, but good feedback nevertheless which has helped me get better at my job.
I get it, I understand that it’s hard, but until I read this article I had only thought of her case as only anecdotal evidence and nothing else. But after reading this, the flash of recognition that jumped onto me was ridiculous.
She’s Asian, driven, smart, charismatic outside the office. But when it boils down to it – I feel like despite all her experience and her accomplishments – she takes things personally. That you’re being valued for the quality of your work and your performance – absolutes, and not necessarily for who you are as a person
And maybe that’s what needs to be changed.
Just my $0.02
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A paraphrase, but: “You meet an asshole in the morning? You met an asshole. You meet assholes all day? You’re the asshole.”
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Ha! That was funny – I will remember it for next time. 😉
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Entrepreneur: don’t tell me that you are actually managing to read all of these! 🙂
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Entrepreneur: don’t tell me that you are actually managing to read all of these! 🙂
I wish people posted on the bottom so that it would be easier to find new comments but I scroll through to at least answer some. Very interesting discussion.
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I posted quite far up on the page, earlier, before realizing how many replies were still lower on the page. 😛
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I know this is link bait, but I’ll chime in anyway. Entrepreneur sounds like the typical abuser in a leadership position. Typical (pun intended). After reading some of the replies, at least Entrepreneur seems self aware. Entrepreneur, instead of justifying your motivations or behavior, it would be easier to just admit the truth. You’re probably just an a–hole. That’s your true calling, your talent. It’s sad that being an a–hole is considered a real talent in the business world.
I applaud the women and men who quit. If everyone stopped working for a–holes, even brilliant a–holes, we wouldn’t have so many of them running around. At least not in leadership positions.
I happen to be an entrepreneur myself, and fully realize that not everyone is the right fit for a job. And I know how difficult it is to start a business. But I’ve never met anyone who wanted to work who couldn’t help a business in a meaningful way if they were properly motivated. We need to flip the work/life balance. Work is for life, not life for work.
The reason I can say this with confidence is because I’ve worked for companies on both sides of the fence. Ones that hire managers like Entrepreneur to run things, and ones that consciously hire good people to run their companies. And guess what – they both work. Both styles make money. The difference is that the workers are miserable in one company, and joyful in the other.
The atmosphere of a company is based solely on the personalities of the founders. Start with abusive founders, and you’re going to have an abusive company. Start with generous founders, and you’ll have a generous company. Compare Google and Amazon. They both work, and yet by all accounts, Google is a great place to work, and Amazon is hell. And please don’t tell me that it’s because of their different business models. It’s not, it’s solely based on personalities.
So given the choice, why not treat people great? There simply is no excuse not to. Unless your an a–hole.
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Try to read carefully, ok? Entrepreneur isn’t a hired manager. And has no “generous founders.” Your comment sounds very immature.
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Actually, I really wish I were an asshole. It would make it easier for me to follow the suggestions of creating an environment where people do not dare express themselves and semi-fear me. I have actually considered working on being more of an asshole so that (a) these situations do not occur and so that (b) I can easily ignore them when they do.
What did you notice in my post that led you to suggest that I do not treat people well and how do you suggest I should have modified my behavior? Tangible suggestions only please – if you have a need for an emotional outburst, it will do nothing for this discussion.
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“Tangible suggestions only please – if you have a need for an emotional outburst, it will do nothing for this discussion.”
– The thread has been hijacked by programmers, and they are very emotional, unstable little bunnies.
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Out of curiosity, would you ever criticize (or blame) a man for making the same type of comments or complaints? I feel a male writing this same post would be absolutely shunned in the programming community.
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How do you know the post wasn’t written by a man?
I’d post it irrespective who the author was but it wouldn’t be valuable written by a man.
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It says… “I am a woman, a feminist, a mother, and a passionate entrepreneur,” in the first paragraph…
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It’s a mistake to be too gullible. 🙂
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You lost me at “mooch of (sic) a husband.”
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Yes, what an enormous loss! We are all weeping.
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When I “mooched off my husband” he couldn’t have afforded to pay anyone what I did as a moocher. I wont go into the cost of hiring a full time cook/maid/personal shopper, etc. It was an interesting statement. She didn’t lose me there, but I’m a little confused why a woman choosing to to stay at home (regardless of whether she has children or not) is considered a moocher. Serious question here. Not a condemnation.
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“When I “mooched off my husband” he couldn’t have afforded to pay anyone what I did as a moocher. I wont go into the cost of hiring a full time cook/maid/personal shopper, etc. ”
– So you suck at selling your labor? Is that the entire point of your comment here? And we really needed to hear this in a thread that is already 330 comments long?
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I actually make quite a good living, however, I did ask a serious question. I don’t understand why it upset you. Do you really feel if a wife stays home she is mooching? This is the best blog post and comment activity I have read on the internet in years. I’m learning here and I’m not quite sure where your anger came from. I don’t suck at anything except clearly not understanding what I suck at. My point was why you feel mooch was the appropriate word. That is all. I even said it was a serious question. Interesting reply. Still, best blog post on the internet in FOREVER.
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“I actually make quite a good living, however, I did ask a serious question.”
– I can only respond to what you say. I have no other information about you. you positioned yourself as a cheap maid. So I responded to what you say.
” I don’t understand why it upset you.”
– You are projecting.
“I’m learning here and I’m not quite sure where your anger came from.”
– This is also projection.
“My point was why you feel mooch was the appropriate word. ”
– Let’s wait for the post’s author. If she manages to find her way through the thread.
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Thank you! I appreciate your response. I hate when I project. It is very ignorant of me. I will continue to read and learn. I’ve clearly been spending time reading the wrong blogs. Ones where no author even considers replying to someone who doesn’t believe the exact same way they do.
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I saw the Xs in your nick name, read the first sentence of your post and thought the discussion was going into a completely different direction here. 😉 On a different note, I do have zero respect for anyone who chooses not to work (please note the word ‘chooses’ – I of course do not mean people with health issues or caring for sick loved ones). When these people do decide to work, they are the most likely to do a crappy job or quit altogether because they believe that doing nothing is a viable option.
Cooking, cleaning and shopping is something your husband should be able to do on his own, as all other adults. Again, this is all completely irrelevant if he suffers from a health problem (I hope not). If he is so busy with work that he is uncapable of completing his chores, then he should be making enough money for a maid. You are a wife, not hired help.
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4 X’s, not 3 🙂 I was proud to do what I did when I chose it. Even though I chose to stay at home my husband did more than half of the work at home, so it was more a question of the word mooching that I was wondering about. I know I didn’t mooch. I definitely worked. I did write a comment earlier that didn’t go through. I vowed after working for a woman that I never would again. It was the worst experience of my life. It’s why I chose to stay at home until my next position which was working for a man. I so get this blog post only from the perspective of an employer to a horrific woman boss. One who did the things you describe your women employees did. Not only that, she was completely jealous, catty, unqualified, narcissistic, incompetent and AND cried in meetings. I’m glad I didn’t give up completely on women as bosses though because my current boss, who is a wonderfully gifted and fair woman, is the BEST! What I love about working with and for men are they just say what they want, they give and accept criticism and feedback, and they don’t bring their home issues to work. I can’t tell you how awesome this blog post is. This is an issue people don’t like to talk about (like racism) because they believe if they ignore it then it isn’t valid. Thanks again for stimulating my mind and reminding me (Clarissa) that projecting is a very bad trait.
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I meant I understand this post from an employee’s perspective having worked for a woman like you describe work for you.
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People who have suffered from abuse during their childhood tend to have a REALLY hard time identifying personal boundaries and receiving negative feedback. Women are bullied into a gender-biased pidgeon-hole when they are kids, which qualifies as emotional abuse from EVERYONE. Plus women who have had a certain upbringing (read: chauvinist) are prone to really encompass the stereotypical cartoon-like female behaviors, while being slightly chauvinist themselves and under the false impression that all women are the same as themselves. Considering even hardcore feminists roll under this definition, it’s even hard to turn off the “implanted chip” once someone else is acting like society mandates that we act and expects us to act that way as well.
That’s my theory and what my experience -which is quite similar to yours- has shown me. Think of it this way: when a woman makes a feminist-inclined choice (i.e. “I don’t want to have kids”), it’s usually her FEMALE peers who give her the hardest time. The only reason women are a majority that keep on being treated as a minority is because feminism isn’t generalized yet – and with the modern undertones of “feminazism”, some women are even afraid of being called a feminist.
That being said, I do think these women CAN be identified during the interviewing process. Perhaps your feminism and your open mindedness took you to take chances on these kinds of women under the impression that your gut was being prejudiced if you didn’t – this is something feminists as myself do struggle with, and I confess I am often kinder to women than to men because of this.
As a sidenote, I do really want to say that the only reason men never quit a job without a plan is due to social pressure. If they knew they wouldn’t be judged as harshly as women for quitting their jobs and staying at home without a plan (something that’s easier than just working it out), some would definitely go for it. Yet today a woman who does nothing is called a housewife: a guy who does nothing is called a leech.
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Thank you, Steph, this is brilliant!
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// People who have suffered from abuse during their childhood tend to have a REALLY hard time identifying personal boundaries and receiving negative feedback.
But men are also bullied, not less than women.
// Women are bullied into a gender-biased pidgeon-hole when they are kids, which qualifies as emotional abuse from EVERYONE.
What would you and Clarissa classify as abuse? I don’t remember being bullied, seems it’s more subtle, usually. Like not buying trucks for a girl or boys’ clothing. Not putting some choices on the table to begin with.
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“What would you and Clarissa classify as abuse? I don’t remember being bullied, seems it’s more subtle, usually. Like not buying trucks for a girl or boys’ clothing. Not putting some choices on the table to begin with.”
– “Boys don’t cry”, “suck it up, aren’t you a boy?” are among the worst ones. Or, “stop reading all the time, nobody will want to marry such a blue stocking” (this is one I always got.) “Women are made to suffer, that’s our lot in life.” “The toilet is a woman’s face” – this one is too Soviet for foreigners to understand, I guess.
Can anybody even see my comments in all this jumble of a thread?
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Evidently my experiences will come into play for my answer, but I do feel I was bullied into a more submissive, feminine, “behave like a girl” role mostly by my mother but also by my peers, my school and other members of my family. Yes, boys are bullied into a different role, but a dominant and self-sufficient one that actually helps them in the scenario Entrepreneur is showcasing.
I know I said “victims of abuse” – but I’m not saying that it’s sufficient emotional abuse to cause PTSD symptoms but there is an interesting parallel. These women Entreprenuer describes are VERY borderline, feeling heavier emotions than other people, emotions they can’t control in the workplace. That would stem from a flawed attachment pattern in childhood… it could be that I’m taking a coincidence too far in my head, but it’s an interesting discussion nonetheless.
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Steph, your comments are wildly refreshing in their intelligence and insight. Thank you.
There is definitely an attachment trauma behind these workplace behaviors.
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Thanks Clarissa! Glad I could be part of the conversation 🙂
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If somebody has a lover who wants to encourage them to take time off, and you decide to label that mooching, that seems like a problem you’re creating for yourself. You could as easily celebrate their opportunity. I’m sorry you haven’t known men who got a chance like that. I wish more people did.
And if someone cries at meetings, maybe that’s a chance for you to notice things going on that create pain?
It looks like people are assuming that you are describing “problem women”; to me, it looks like you haven’t figured out how to create a workplace full of authentic, compassionate and effective connections. What a bummer.
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“I’m sorry you haven’t known men who got a chance like that.”
– I do. It was my ex-husband. I’m ecstatic that I dumped his ass for this.
“a workplace full of authentic, compassionate and effective connections.”
– Sounds like a workplace from hell.
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Ladies and gentlemen, the women I described in my post are clearly not unicorns. Here is the perfect example. Celebrating not working, validating that crying in meetings is acceptable and assigning responsibilities to management that go far beyond professional ties. Here is exactly what I have been talking about.
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This looks over-emphasized. I am a woman. I am working in one of the most prestigious company. I know you are aware of the fact that women are successful but you might not be aware that I have faced failures. I have received negative comments from each and every manager and i have never over-reacted. Worked on each of them and now i am one of the most wanted programmer. And i know many such women (since I have been a part of convent school I have many female contacts) It’s like you are trying to focus a lot on a weakness of one or two women. Yes I agree one major factor holding back women is they don’t speak aloud. they don’t fight for higher salaries they like to stay silent in the matters of money and growth. They don’t ask for promotion but saying that “women are too emotional and hard to handle” is totally unfair 🙂 Try to focus on Talents of women and you will find they can do amazing work. You might also consider putting right resources in right kind of work 🙂
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Congratulations on succeeding in a highly competitive field! That being said, your comment is not aligned with my post. I never once questioned women’s ability to do amazing work or to speak up.
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Well, I think I agree on many points. Some women just can’t manage their careers.
There are plenty of men, who are losers and mooch of more productive coworkers as well. I seriously suspect that in the beginning you had gender bias and were hiring male A players and female A/B/C players.
So you view is skewed towards man because you were more selective when hiring men. You probably also had more woman centric culture, which made the B players feel at home in their B attitude.
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In my personal opinion one has to separate private and professional interactions. I suspect – in order to support women – you introduced a very family like environment at work. Although I do appreciate and wish for friendly environments, there are certain rules to obey, one of which is: we try to do the best work we can and in order to always do so, we have to improve ourselves, thus looking at our products critically and honestly. For my coworkers I always said: they are my coworkers, but we also have a great relationship outside of work. See how I put coworker first? The same goes for my bosses.
Maybe that is something you have to make clear to your current and future female coworkers: they work for you and you give them the opportunity to do great work (that is how you support them, you don’t want to be their second mom/babysitter). In order to support them fully on their career, you will need to be strict and give them open and honest evaluation. In addition you respect the female life cycle of giving birth. If they are willing to accept the straight forward environment, they are welcome to join a friendly group of coworkers.
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Yes, you are beyond right. I think that one of my core mistakes was created a friendly familiar work environment. I unwillingly erased the line that separates coworkers from buddies and bosses from friends. Perhaps I also felt slightly guilty about owning my business at a younger age than my employees and tried to overcompensate by positioning myself as very easy going, approachable and pleasant.
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Clarissa, you are a control freak! After reading this blog post, all the comments made thereafter, including all your own comments, I can’t help but find you to be a seriously twisted individual. Feel free to censor (or “ban”) me, as I will most definitely never read anything on this site again anyhow. Oh, and feel free to call me “uneducated” and then follow that up with how you only want the “enlightened” to post their thoughts. The irony in all that you have said on this blog post, is that you are very much the type of woman Entrepreneur is complaining about. The only difference being that your ego is manifested in an overbearing, shortsighted fashion. You are anything but “enlightened.”
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“h, and feel free to call me “uneducated” and then follow that up with how you only want the “enlightened” to post their thoughts. ”
– No, not necessarily enlightened. Just people with a functional brain of whom you are obviously not one.
“as I will most definitely never read anything on this site again anyhow. ”
– Finally, good news! Bye bye, freak.
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I’ve worked for male and female bosses, and I’ve seen the same pattern from the lower ranks. The difference is that I didn’t see this when the boss was a male. My male coworkers all behaved basically the same regardless of who the boss was – male or female, authoritative or hands-off, the guys would tend to just plod forward and do what they were going to do anyway whether that was productive or not.
On the other hand, I’ve only ever seen women behave this way when their immediate superior is a woman. They don’t treat men this way. Some flirt with male bosses, some chafe at his management style (and one that I know of was not at all subtle about sleeping with the boss). But they only followed the pattern described here when the boss was female. I think it’s a “sisterhood” thing where they expect to be treated as equals and not as subordinates, but I’m a man, so that’s just a guess. It just strikes me as though they expect collaboration – equal input and authority (or lack thereof) with their female boss. If they’re looking at it that way, criticism isn’t direction, it’s tearing someone down. No wonder they get upset (again, if my guess is correct).
… And here I am phrasing my whole answer with repeated disclaimers. Maybe I’ve worked with too many women.
I neither know nor care what is at the root of it. I only know that when I’ve seen people point out the problem in public, they get fired; when they point it out in private, everyone quickly gets too uncomfortable to really probe the question and look for a solution. I’ve learned to just let work around it, biding my time until I have the capital to start my own firm. Keep it small enough to avoid discrimination laws; I have no problem hiring or working for women, but I would have to do so carefully. If I hire a man and he poisons the work environment, I can fire him and that’ll be the end of it; if I hire the wrong woman, I’m stuck with her or a lawsuit.
That’s the solution – avoid it altogether.
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Men and women are physiologically different.
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And today is Friday.
Got any more platitudes to share?
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My father was a manger in a large government office, gendered effects have been know for years, but never really spoken about publicly. For an office full of women he’d use a male office manger, (put a cockerel in the chicken coup was his phrase), it brought peace to the place. For an office full of mostly young men he’d add some slightly older women, it civilised the them. Language, work ethic and personal hygiene all improved,
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“What is at the root of the problem? Lack of confidence? Wrong upbringing? What am I not seeing? Is there something else I should be doing as a manager? I welcome your comments, as I secretly continue placing the resumes of female applicants into the “call later” folder.”
Why did you write this? You had a post that was confident, complete, and full of your observations of other’s behavior. Why did you back off of every observation you made, and either take the blame for these other women’s failings or attribute those failings to circumstances beyond control? You are not to blame, you provided opportunity, freedom to grow, and a supportive environment.
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Because a mature person always looks to him or herself for answers first. that’s called introspection and self-awareness.
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A mature person also recognizes that their influences over others behavior is limited at best, only when enforced with policy, strong leadership, or some other overriding influence. I would hope that E, and you, know that people who gossip tend to gossip, people who will shirk tend to shirk, and that people who sabotage their own success tend to be unsuccessful.
Clarissa, I’m going to point blank ask…. Did you recommend that E add this these thoughts at the end, or suggest that SHE was doing something wrong? It’s completely out of the line of the rest of the post, so out of line it’s basically an afterthought. The previous sentence is literally a condemnation that women sabotage themselves, and the next one is literally a call to sisterhood!
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No, I had zero influence on the text. It was sent to me as is and I published it without any editing or suggestions.
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Fair enough.
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I am asking myself, why you are still a feminist. You don’t (want to) see the obvious. I personally believe (as a white male) in the equality of both genders, but this equality is not what Feminism is standing for. Continue to hire your employees in favor of capitalism, the buisness and most important of all: Yourself! If you think woman don’t fullfill these conditions, then do not hire them.
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“I personally believe (as a white male) in the equality of both genders, but this equality is not what Feminism is standing for. ”
– Yes, it is.
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I am sorry. I forgot to mention that his whole thing is based on my opinion.
Furthermore, I hereby criticise the cencoring of certain comments and refer, reagrding the censoring, to the freedom of speach. Although I know some of these opinions are complete BS, where as others are totally legit.
Last. I excuse myself for all grammatical and/or lexical mistakes, since I am not from an English speaking country.
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Just a little food for thought; the brain cannot be both logical and emotional at the same time. This applies to both men and woman equally. The problem with todays society is that we teach people to fully express their emotional urges at all times instead of reinforcing logic and rationality. This also applies (through societal force) to woman more often than men. Again, there I am not implying that there is some fundamental difference between men and women, on the contrary it is society that has created the stereotype of irrational behavior in women by encouraging them to be emotional.
This will probably be filtered/deleted but before you do I suggest you google what Im saying. If nothing else its interesting.
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“Again, there I am not implying that there is some fundamental difference between men and women, on the contrary it is society that has created the stereotype of irrational behavior in women by encouraging them to be emotional.”
– Exactly. This is what I’ve been saying this entire time. Hallelujah!
“This will probably be filtered/deleted but before you do I suggest you google what Im saying. If nothing else its interesting.”
– I don’t delete interesting insightful comments such as this one.
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First time (male) commenter; love the blog, Clarissa!
I was very interested to read about your experiences, Entrepeneur, and immediately found many of my own insecurities bubbling up. I have more than once felt like you describe your female employees as feeling, but thinking back over the years, I don’t think I’ve ever reacted the way you describe. I’ve wondered how a boss felt about me after receiving correction or criticism, and I’ve talked to friends about it, but I’ve never scheduled a meeting to talk about it, let alone two or three. I’ve been frustrated by what I perceived as a lack of appreciation for my work, but I don’t think I’ve ever addressed it with a boss, except perhaps as a (sadly, passive-aggressive) joke and then let it drop.
I sent a link to this post to a good (male) friend of mine, who responded to me that he absolutely identifies with the women you describe. And it is true that he, unlike me, has spent a lot of time having calls and meetings with supervisors to work out possible slights, and to try to get at what his business partner was thinking, and worrying about whether the boss or partner was angry or upset in some way. I feel as if he and I have many of the same worries or concerns, but he’s far more open than I am about having the meeting to figure out whether his concerns are acknowledged than I am.
I don’t know exactly what it is that is different between my friend and me, or between us and the women you describe, but I think my own issues stem from insecurity and fear. I don’t know whether the issues you’ve describe are different only in degree, or in kind.
Thanks for sharing your experience.
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You are deleting the comments of those who respond that “men and women are different”, yet your entire blog post is about how men and women in your company are different.
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“You are deleting the comments of those who respond that “men and women are different”, yet your entire blog post is about how men and women in your company are different.”
– Please, please, just try to concentrate, OK? The person who has a company and the person who deletes comments are two completely different people. The post describes differences in BEHAVIOR. Do you understand the difference between being different and behaving differently? For instance, I behave differently towards you and towards my Dean. But in both interactions I’m the same person. Think about it. Now think some more. You can even learn to enjoy the process of thinking.
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Gee, I thought I was concentrating. YOU posted the blog, so this is YOUR blog post, even though you are not the author of its contents in this case. I know nothing about you, but feel sorry for anyone who is apparently compelled to be so caustic and sarcastic for no reason.
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“Gee, I thought I was concentrating. YOU posted the blog, so this is YOUR blog post, even though you are not the author of its contents in this case. I know nothing about you, but feel sorry for anyone who is apparently compelled to be so caustic and sarcastic for no reason.”
– Can you take your boring emotions and go away? I’ve witnessed too many weirdos unravel in this thread already.
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🙂
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Would you care to give me a little bit more info? I would love to know how long the average employment period in your company is (especially for women) and wether you saw a change in behavior in them over the time? I often had the feeling, that women came out of a bad employment with very bad climate and it’s really hard to leave something like that behind.
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You make very interesting points. After reading the comments I am sorry that you have to deal with certain individuals that fall into the categories that you discuss in your post.
To the readers:
Why is there a masculine way and a feminine way? I don’t understand when someone is so busy running a company asks you to do something why does that person have to take their time and explain how they appreciate you? Sounds like a personal not a personnel issue.
Just because your boss is a female why does she have to set boundaries? Why is it her responsibility? Aren’t we all adults in charge of our own feelings and professionalism?
I worked for my mother for 10 years and we ran a successful restaurant. I have extra respect for female entrepreneurs because women take advantage of it.
Men are less likely to call there female boss a BITCH than their female coworkers.
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