Why, oh why does a blogger who has quite a few interesting things to say feel driven to babble incoherently about one subject that betrays his sexual loneliness and relational misery?
I’m talking, of course, about the Last Psychiatrist and his strange obsession with regaling his readers with boring drivel about gender issues. This is one area where he has nothing of interest to say, yet he insists on trying. LP begins his most recent post on gender with a series of very bizarre opinions on why women wear make-up:
The only appropriate time to wear make up is to look attractive to men. Or women, depending on which genitals you want to lick, hopefully it’s both. “Ugh, women are not objects.” Then why are you painting them? I’m not saying you have to look good for men, I’m saying that if wearing makeup not for men makes you feel better about yourself, you don’t have a strong self, and no, yelling won’t change this. Everyone knows you shouldn’t judge a book by its cover, now you’re saying the cover of the book influences how the book feels about itself?
I warned you he was prone to babbling. Let’s leave aside the idiotic argument about a book whose feelings are not influenced by its cover (and probably by anything else as well), and observe how ridiculous people make themselves look when they make conjectures about the motivations of others instead of simply asking.
As a woman who loves make-up, let me tell you how I use it on a daily basis. Every week-day, after I get up and wash myself, I spent at least 15 minutes carefully applying my make-up. After that I stay at home working all day long. Alone. There are no men, women or children (or even house pets) to observe me in my make-up. The reason I wear it is simply that when you work from home, you need something to remind yourself that you are not on vacation, that this is a working day like any other. So I put on make-up and wear formal clothes during my work day at home. I know from experience that if I spend the day in pajamas, I will get no work done. Contrary to LP’s bizarre beliefs, this story demonstrates that my self is no way weak. His rhetorical question,
You are enhancing your outward appearance, which is great, but then you pretend it’s for internal reasons?
proves that his intellectual limitations make him incapable of recognizing that his understanding of other people’s way of being may not be as exhaustive as he believes. People do all kinds of things to their bodies for purely internal reasons. The reason why LP pretends he doesn’t know this is his contempt of women (Mommy surely did a number on this guy, let me tell you):
Ask it this way: how would you like to be in a world where men said,” oh, I feel so much better about myself when I’m wearing makeup.” You’d run for the nearest totalitarian regime.
The poor guy would have a conniption if he knew how many men use things like a concealer on a regular basis. He also is faking ignorance of the many things men do daily to their appearance to achieve a variety of goals (including to feel good about themselves). Shaving is one such thing. Unlike make-up, shaving causes pain and discomfort to every single man I’ve ever known. Yet they keep doing that and nobody has ran away to a totalitarian regime as a result.
And this is just the beginning of an article that gets more and more incoherent and hysterical with every paragraph. LP regales us with the following bits of wisdom:
1. There are more women in Senate than ever before because Congress has lost all power and “is seen” (yeah, I know) as feminized and pathetic. Men are abandoning this useless organization to women and doing something more powerful. Like nursing. Seriously, go read the article. He actually says this stuff.
2. It should mean nothing to women to see other women succeed professionally. It should also mean nothing to racial and ethnic minorities to see people like them succeed professionally. And a white male LP will now explain to us all why we are all traitors to our gender and ethnicity if he have achieved something.
3. It also means nothing that women have won access to higher education because it really upsets LP to imagine any woman engaging in anything meaningful. Plus, male nurses have got all the power in the world anyways.
4. Women deserve to be paid less for the same work because we are weak, overly emotional, and pathetic. (Translation: LP’s Momma was ultra-powerful, cold, distant, and ate his balls for breakfast when he was five. Then she ate his Pappa’s balls when LP was 5 and a half).
5. Jessica Valenti is to blame for Sandy Hook killings. Ah, now you are agreeing with me about LP’s Momma, right?
6. Jessica Valenti and all feminists are evil because Huffington Post. Yeah, I know. Why not because ocean? Or because ice-cream?
7. Some TV show or movie called Girls is not feminist. I never even knew this work of Tv or movie genius existed but I could have told you it has nothing to do with feminism just based on the title.
8. If a skinny kid wearing eye-glasses is bullied at school by a gang of huge brawny jocks that’s not the fault of the jocks but of every other skinny kid in eye-glasses. Or, in LP’s words, when women are raped only women are to blame. (And when Jews are shepherded to the concentration camps. . . And when the Ukrainians are starved. . . And when children are molested. . . And when Africans are enslaved. . .). The argument is old and very well-known. One would have thought that a smart person like LP would recognize the good old victim-blaming, yet he is so blinded by his hatred of women that he presents it as some huge intellectual breakthrough of his own.
There is, however, I precious bit of wisdom among all this raving lunacy. One statement that I had to agree with in its entirety, namely:
Sites like Jezebel and Feministing are much, much worse than pornography.
Yes, this is true. For the purposes of achieving sexual arousal and release, these sites are completely and utterly useless. So much words wasted to tell us nothing but what we already knew: LP is one of those people whose intelligence crumbles to dust when a fresh attack of sexual resentment overcomes him.
Clarissa's Blog 
To be fair, it really depends on the pornography.
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You are right, of course. 🙂
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LOL.
He is bang on the money and you know it chickie. That’s why you’re so angry about it – and rage is the typical response when women are forced to confront stuff like this.
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Ah, another sexual reject who is projecting his anger onto others. Have you tried being less obvious, dickie?
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The tone of your post didn’t even come across as ‘raging,’ more like exasperated with some amusement – it made me laugh, anyway. (But RPJ is true to form, though I would have expected him to start his comment with YAWN instead of LOL.)
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Who is this RPJ? Do we know him?
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When “humans” are forced to confront, you macho asshole.
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Nice take-down. Gender-based ressentiment seems to be overflowing these days. I am keeping track of it via YouTube, so I can see how I and other women are being portrayed. (I don’t like nasty surprises.)
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It’s curious how normally intelligent people begin to unravel whenever the word “woman” crosses their minds.
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If you want to see the source and content of the current wave of anti-feminism, you probably ought to visit ‘girl writes what” on YouTube. The notion that feminism is really just a form of traditional, biologically driven femininity seems to prevail in much of the current discourse, for some reason.
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Men like this don’t want to understand women, for all their apparent obsession with us. They’d rather stew in their resentment, because they are the ones who are weak, and pouting and saying “It’s not fair!” makes weak babies feel more powerful. Note to men who are reading guys like this and possibly thinking “gosh, is this the way it is?” It’s not. You’re just fooled because our culture tells you that if a man speaks in that authoritative, declarative way, he’s telling the truth. But there is an actual, real authority on women who you can consult for all the answers to your questions: it’s called “women.”
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“But there is an actual, real authority on women who you can consult for all the answers to your questions: it’s called “women.”
Unfortunately for them ‘women’ aren’t a homogeneous entity, so either they’ll have to keep ignoring the wide range of individual voices or occasionally spotlight a woman who does agree with them and promote her as a ‘spokeswoman for all women.’
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“But there is an actual, real authority on women who you can consult for all the answers to your questions: it’s called “women.””
– Yes, instead of making these wild conjectures, one could always just ask. This seems like a very novel idea for some folks. 🙂
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I go till “sexual loneliness and relational misery”, then I couldn’t read it anymore. When has unwanted singlehood become a slur?
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What makes you think the guy is single?? He is very obviously a middle-aged married man whose miserable relationship makes him hate women. I think he also is a father of at least one daughter which makes things even worse.
Also, what makes you think I was using this as any sort of a slur? i was just stating a fact. They guy is miserable and he insults women as a result.
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No, I don’t know whether he is single. I just don’t like how you say a way of babbling (which you don’t seem to like) shows a person’s “sexual loneliness and relational misery”. It’s like saying his babbling shows he got Asperger’s.
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Asperger’s is not a choice. Hating women and making sexist statements is. The guy is a psychoanalyst. If anybody is qualified to repair his broken personal life, it’s him. He just chooses not to.
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“sexual loneliness and relational misery” is not a choice either!
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For a psychoanalyst? It absolutely is. Like not speaking Spanish is a choice for a Hispanist. Or having leaky pipes in his house is a choice for a plumber.
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Putting on makeup and professional attire to work alone at home is a form of Magickal ritual. It works well for some people. For me, and important Magickal practice is that I grade papers only in my office, never at home. It still boggles my mind that some people think Magick is unscientific.
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“Putting on makeup and professional attire to work alone at home is a form of Magickal ritual.”
– Ah, I didn’t know! My sister used to do the same thing to get through a complicated pregnancy. And it helped.
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Did I post something problematic that led my last post to be put into moderation, or was it just that I changed my name for it??
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There is an ongoing Spam attack on the blog that started a few days ago and now the system is ultra-cautious. I apologize for the inconvenience!
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Sexual loneliness is not necessarily a choice…except maybe for a psychoanalyst, but I think he made a good choice.
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“You are enhancing your outward appearance, which is great, but then you pretend it’s for internal reasons?”
I think this fucktard is correct on this, but this is simply not applicable to you. Your case in an exception.
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“People do all kinds of things to their bodies for purely internal reasons.”
People like you, you should not generalize.
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“People like you, you should not generalize.”
– No, even people who are not like me. 🙂 Anorexics, for example, or self-cutters do many things do their bodies but their motivation is deeply internal. A psychoanalyst like LP should definitely know that.
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I know crowds of people who are such exceptions. They all have their own reasons, and those reasons do not involve attracting men. Only some men really need to think that all women do is about attracting men. 🙂
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Not all women do…but make-up? You’re not common on this.
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Let’s look at this from the pov of logic. Most women I know use make-up. Pretty much all of them are in long-term, happy, committed relationships and are very very busy with work, children, their social lives, hobbies, etc. None of them has any interest whatsoever in attracting men because they are happy with their personal lives.
Question: why should I assume that these women who very obviously do not want to attract men still want to attract men? Especially when attracting men will bring them nothing but problems?
No, this just doesn’t make sense. Unless you think that women are by nature irrational.
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Take my mother (or every other middle-aged woman with an extensive family). She always puts on make-up when she gets together with her numerous girlfriends. And so do they. They can’t be hoping to attract men because there are no men present for their regular “hen parties.”
I also have a heavily pregnant colleague who wears make-up to work. Do we believe she wants to attract men in her 8th month of pregnancy with 2 small children and a phenomenal husband at home?
No, this just doesn’t make sense.
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“He also is faking ignorance of the many things men do daily to their appearance to achieve a variety of goals (including to feel good about themselves). Shaving is one such thing. ”
I’m shaving for women purposes only.
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“I’m shaving for women purposes only.”
– In the corporate world this is often demanded. Most companies don’t tolerate a full beard unless you are a CEO.
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This is the same thing.
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More precisely, the same thing but this is a patriarchical form of repulsed faggotry.
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The make-up part of your post is grossly over-generalizing taking yourself in account. Other women are not you. The second part of your post is excellent. He’s a childish fucktard.
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I’m just curious: what posts do you like from LP? I don’t read him regularly but whenever I do, I cringe at how simplistic and ignorant he seems. He had one post about the uselessness of Humanities majors that made me write him off entirely. But I know that people are more complicated than a few cringe-inducing posts. When does he seem intelligent or worthy of reading?
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I think it’s a good thing to read about your enemies.
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Evelina,
His posts on narcissism are very insightful. Here are a couple of examples: http://thelastpsychiatrist.com/2010/07/nobody_will_understand_what_we.html
http://thelastpsychiatrist.com/2010/01/im_building_a_rape_tunnel.html
When he’s good, he’s very, very good.
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I really liked this one about the psych prescriptions: http://thelastpsychiatrist.com/2012/10/if_psychiatry_is_committing_su.html
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I used to quote him a lot on my Sunday Link Encyclopedia. But his recent collection of anti-women posts has been too bad.
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“Anorexics, for example, or self-cutters do many things do their bodies but their motivation is deeply internal.”
I agree.
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“None of them has any interest whatsoever in attracting men because they are happy with their personal lives.”
It’s not because you’re happy in your personal live that you don’t want to attract others…especially if you’re the one that loves less the other in the couple. And many husbands are very pleased that “their” trophy is attractive to other men.. And don’t forget that the man often sees the results, so women can do that to please their husband.
Using a patriarchical tool like make-up is particularly irrational…unless you want to do a working ritual. And I don’t think I would be the case if N was not there…
.
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” And many husbands are very pleased that “their” trophy is attractive to other men.. And don’t forget that the man often sees the results, so women can do that to please their husband.”
– David, you know that I like you, so please take what I say as a result of the kindest feelings possible, OK? Your comments in this thread are a clue to why your personal life is not as good as you deserve. The reason is that you are deeply suspicious of relationships and don’t have a healthy, happy model of a relationship in your head. For you, a relationship is a dangerous place where one person is always likely to be hurt, manipulated, and abused. If you change that model, I know that you will become very happy.
“And I don’t think I would be the case if N was not there…”
– Do you seriously suspect a middle-aged lady like me being so naive as to think that sexual interest is aroused by make-up? 🙂 🙂 C’mon. 🙂
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“Do you seriously suspect a middle-aged lady like me being so naive as to think that sexual interest is aroused by make-up? C’mon. ”
Okay, in your case, this is for internal. No problem with that. Sorry.
I don’t talk mainly about you. I talked about others.
“The reason is that you are deeply suspicious of relationships and don’t have a healthy, happy model of a relationship in your head. For you, a relationship is a dangerous place where one person is always likely to be hurt, manipulated, and abused.”
Replace “relationship” by “forced monogamous relationship” and you have what I think about it. It has been a long time that I’m not interested by this patriarchical model so It has been a long that I changed my model.
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” It has been a long time that I’m not interested by this patriarchical model so It has been a long that I changed my model.’
– And that’s great. Now the next step is to start seeing more happy relationships around you. They are there but we tend to have selective vision that only shows us what will confirm our world-view at any given moment.
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“Take my mother (or every other middle-aged woman with an extensive family). She always puts on make-up when she gets together with her numerous girlfriends. And so do they. They can’t be hoping to attract men because there are no men present for their regular “hen parties.” ”
Okay, you brought another example of make-up not used to please men. But I don’t see that as for “internal” purpose. I see that as a result of her friends’ peer pressure to look better that others or maybe to please other women.
“Do we believe she wants to attract men in her 8th month of pregnancy with 2 small children and a phenomenal husband at home?”
They’re are many men who have the pregnancy fetish and who want to fuck her right now, so she could do that to please other men. Or maybe this is just for working colleagues’ peer pressure reasons. But this is not for “internal” purpose.
You’re the sole case of using make-up for internal purpose that I know. You’re not alone, but this is not common.
.
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” I see that as a result of her friends’ peer pressure to look better that others or maybe to please other women.”
– It is very strange when people assign motivations to women they never even met. You could have just asked why she did that and I would have told you that it’s her way to mark these meetings as festive occasions. Peer pressure at her age does sound a little funny. Pleasing other middle-aged hetero women with using make-up is even more funny.
“They’re are many men who have the pregnancy fetish and who want to fuck her right now, so she could do that to please other men. Or maybe this is just for working colleagues’ peer pressure reasons. But this is not for “internal” purpose.”
– Again, you are assigning strange motivations instead of asking questions. This is what i mean when I talk about disrespect for women. What makes you feel this need to explain rather than simply ask? Do you believe that you know better than women you have never even met what drives them?
“You’re the sole case of using make-up for internal purpose that I know. You’re not alone, but this is not common.”
– There must be a reason why you need to believe this.
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I don’t know specifically their reasons but I’m 99% confident that this is not “internal” like in your case. Peer pressure for adults? Of course this is very common, even more than non-adults…especially in those non-Aspergers conformists. That’s one the main reasons with this is so hard to change mentalities!
Human nature is not Santa Claus nor Cinderella.
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“I don’t know specifically their reasons but I’m 99% confident that this is not “internal” like in your case.”
– I promise that the moment you let go of that certainty, your personal life will get a lot richer and happier.
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I think that David you are being a bit too simplistic. I wear make up every day–when I’m alone or when I’m sick or when I at work or when I’m with my female friends or when I am out on a date with my wonderful partner. Make up makes me feel more beautiful. I don’t think I am ugly without makeup but I feel more beautiful with it. And when I feel beautiful, I am happier and more confident. And it’s fun to play with! So I wear it.
I accept that the fact that I feel more beautiful with makeup may be the result of social or patriarchal conditioning. My notions of beauty are certainly the result of social/patriarchal conditioning. But you can’t draw a straight line between wearing make-up and wanting to please men. Honestly, if my partner had told me that he prefers me with makeup, we would have broken up. He doesn’t care if I wear it or if I don’t. So conditioning and pleasing men are different things.
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Good comment. It’s possible that I coufound “conditioning” and “pleasing others”.
But again, as intellectuals, you don’t live in the same world than the average Joe. Even if individuals is in a great relationship, they have the tendency (not all, but a big majority) to want to attract others. That’s simply human nature.
“He doesn’t care if I wear it or if I don’t.”
Personally, I don’t like it at all, it’s an anti-sexual device for me, but I will not judge someone that do that for internal reason. But there’s worse: tatoos.
.
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“Even if individuals is in a great relationship, they have the tendency (not all, but a big majority) to want to attract others. That’s simply human nature.”
– This is precisely one of the biggest stumbling blocks on your way to personal happiness. We tend to encounter whatever we expect to encounter.
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And how about this for a head-exploding possibility: some women have multiple *different* reasons for wearing makeup at *different* times. Sometimes they have many different reasons at the same time. Shocking! Is it seriously so hard for people to imagine alternative motivations?
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“And how about this for a head-exploding possibility: some women have multiple *different* reasons for wearing makeup at *different* times. Sometimes they have many different reasons at the same time. ”
– Oh my God, what are you saying? That women are not simplistic, one-dimensional, amoeba-like creatures?? That is too shocking! I know that many people cannot deal with this possibility.
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I don’t like to wear makeup at all. I hate the feeling of gunk on my face. But, if I wear it, I’m going to spread it on thick. I much prefer the idea that makeup is a mask than a refinement. I don’t like refinements, but a mask gives one the opportunity to project a certain kind of character — and of course, that is very shamanistic.
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It’s somewhat similar for me. I wear it very rarely, and when I do I don’t bother with the boring parts like foundation, concealer, whatever else. I go straight to the bright-colored lipsticks and eyeshadows. (I’d wear eyeliner and mascara too if I had better fine motor skills, and also did not wear glasses in the case of the mascara. As it is, I’ve got long eyelashes and glasses that sit pretty close to my eyes, so I’d be afraid of getting a bunch of black smudges on them and not being able to see!)
If you’re going to change your face, you might as well make it look noticeably different from your regular face, right?
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Here a little late (and my conscience won’t let me stay long since I got a bunch of stuff due later that I’ve barely started).
I find TLP to be a mixed bag, some awesome stuff (he’s good at finding the loose end of string that helps unravel the knot). But he’s also kind of a one-noter and his expository style could not be different from mine (therefore frustrating/exasperating to me) if he tried. Sometimes I get halfway thru and give up waiting for him to get to The Point. I just skimmed this post (looking at a few places more closely).
You are Missing A Point. Makeup is signalling, period. The origins and development of it (by both sexes at different times and places) are entirely about sending messages to other people (most people most of the time cannot see their own makeup). The fact that a few people find internal reasons for using makeup does not change the fact that it’s basically about sending some kind of social message.
In your case, one of your uses of makeup is about letting yourself know that you’re a person at work (instead of lazing about) at home*. That doesn’t change the fact that most of the time most women in NAmerica wear makeup to signal other people. The precise nature of the signal will vary from “I’m suitable mating material” to “I’m one of you!” to “I’m not one of you” to “I got it together, world, so hear me roar!” to “I can turn the world on with my smile!”.
People who convince themselves that they engage in signalling behavior for entirely internal purposes are kidding themselves and/or very much out of touch with themselves.
Women (especially self-styled-feminists praising other women for non- (or very banal) “accomplishments” is just as infantilizing as anything The Patriarchy every came up with. Jezebel is a bad joke. Feministing is an excellent joke (I still can’t decide if it’s serious or an elaborate hoax).
Finally, your sex shaming of men you disagree with is really old and carries no weight for most of the men you’re trying to shame. Most women (hah!) have no idea how to really shame men anymore. The flipside of eliminating slut-shaming** is the elimination of cad-shaming or loser-shaming.
*I have a similar cue with clothes I can only work at home if I’m wearing outside-the-house-clothes. Notice both cues are about physically turning ourselves into our public/social selves to fulfill a role whose demands come from outside the house.
**No, I’m not referring to you. But the feminist agenda of never criticising any woman’s sexual choices has a consequence I don’t think they’ve throught through.
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Did most people in North America tell you that?
Don’t you find it strange that a third man in a row in such a small thread is explaining to women why they wear makeup and make pronouncements on my completely invented difference from their standard of femininity?
This is extremely bizarre. It is also extremely bizarre that men should care so much about this topic when women in this thread remain indifferent.
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“explaining to women why they wear makeup”
I’m expounding on a general theory of makeup (as used in some places and times by men as well).
Using makeup for anything but signalling is beyond odd and very inefficient since most of the time the wearer can’t see their own makeup. If makeup makes a person feel better about themselves (divorced of considerations of how other people see them) then it’s no longer makeup – it’s medicine or a narcotic.
Thinking that anything as large as the cosmetics industry could be built by each woman having an individualized and idio-syncratic relation to the products involved is beyond bizarre – economics don’t work that way.
“It is also extremely bizarre that men should care so much about this topic”
To be clear, I don’t care about makeup per se, I’m interested in patterns of behavior, this particular behavior is makeup usage, it could be about lots of other things.
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“I’m expounding on a general theory of makeup”
– This is a very childish and silly theory. A woman past the age of 20 who believes that make-up will sexually attract anybody should visit:
1) a sexopathologist
b) a specialist in extreme mental retardation.
“Thinking that anything as large as the cosmetics industry could be built by each woman having an individualized and idio-syncratic relation to the products involved is beyond bizarre – economics don’t work that way.”
– You are assigning strange opinions to me and then debating them. I’m arguing that nobody but the infantile and severely retarded wear make-up to attract anybody sexually. LP argues that women wear make-up ONLY to attract men sexually. That’s the crux of the debate here.
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I suspect the reason bloggers like TLP are picking up this topic is that recently the American feminist who focuses on avators in computer games has been accused of hypocrisy because she decries the objectification of female game characters, whilst wearing makeup herself. She also made a cool quarter of a million dollars with her online appeals for funding. Many men perceive her as being a shrewd marketer, riding a wave of feminist sentiment for personal gain. They perceive that feminism must necessarily be nonsensical if people can do that.
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“A woman past the age of 20 who believes that make-up will sexually attract anybody should visit”
Yeah, TLP is completely stupid if he says that’s the only reason women wear makeup. On the other hand, what I’m saying is that makeup is almost always directed toward signalling to other people (a milder, and I think reasonable argument), which you seemed to be disputing along with the more unreasonable position of TLP.
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I’m only arguing with the LP’s post here, nothing else.
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And please don’t worry about my shaming of sexual losers not being effective enough. I’m perfectly fine with how it works so no need to worry. 🙂
As for “slut-shaming “, I blogged many times about it being a spurious concept. Shame has an internal locus of control. This means that nobody can shame you if you don’t choose to be shamed.
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“I’m perfectly fine with how it works so no need to worry.”
If it’s for internal reasons then knock yourself out. Just don’t expect anyone to actually take it (or you) seriously when you engage in it.
“Shame has an internal locus of control. This means that nobody can shame you if you don’t choose to be shamed.”
Roughly yes. The usual distinction is guilt (internal moral monitoring) vs shame (loss of social capital) in that sense shame is a social (not internal) phenomenon. It’s internal to the extent that if a person doesn’t care what other people think about them then they can’t be shamed.
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“If it’s for internal reasons then knock yourself out. Just don’t expect anyone to actually take it (or you) seriously when you engage in it.”
– Writing that isn’t motivated internally is worthless.
“It’s internal to the extent that if a person doesn’t care what other people think about them then they can’t be shamed.”
– Exactly. Here is an old post on this subject: https://clarissasblog.com/2011/07/15/are-you-ashamed-of-how-much-water-you-drank-today/
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So I had this great recent experience with a troll, where I thought a troll had suddenly become endearing and insightful, then realized that I was just being counter-trolled in a much more direct way than I had previously imagined.
I’d forgotten I’d left a comment on one of the Youtube videos mocking women for being vacuous groupies who overempathized with each other in an insane way. Because I’ve always found it extremely irritating when people take something I’d meant ironically in a literal way, I deliberately set out not to notice that these were men playing the role of women, by acting like a pathetic Greek chorus. One way to insult a group of men is to insult their women, so I decided that the cross-dressing was something I wouldn’t notice. Instead, I commented, “American women are very strange.”
In response to that, one troll said I looked like a “trannie”. At first, I thought this troll must have had an amazing insightful perspective into my use of makeup. But more recently, I realized it was just simply tit for tat.
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The other thing is there’s a certain amount of truth to TLP’s article, which I perused last night. You do find that contemporary feminism is really not very much about helping oneself. I’ve learned this with regard to teaching self-defence to people here. They want what’s socially acceptable, or cool, or “empowering”. What they don’t want is to delve into their subjectivity, or to encounter something new or slightly difficult, or something that requires persistence to master. So, TLP and a lot of anti-feminists are right, that many women want the badge of success, but without having to sweat for it. Perhaps many of them do get a degree of this shiny kind of recognition — they rise to the top of their group using cultural mechanisms. But there’s something fakey-fake and solipsistic about it.
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I would like to ‘like’ this comment about 374 times.
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OK, I have no idea why people are getting so aggressive about this topic. I also have no idea what I have done to provoke this series of accusations. When did I demonstrate an especial attachment to what’s socially acceptable or cool, exactly?
I understand that LP has many fans but one could also have a sense of humor about this whole thing.
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“I also have no idea what I have done to provoke this series of accusations”
Please, the poor-little-me card does not become you.
What I loved about musteryou’s comment was nicely articulating what I find off-putting in the younger online ‘feminist’ sites I come across (not yours). Sites lite feministing read like 6th grade mean girls gossiping with each other about how awesome they are how much they _loathe_ those uncool kids who want to sit next to them in the lunchroom, like who do they think they _are_, anyway?
Whatever wave of femnism we’re onto now is doing more to infantalize women and feminism than the last 200 years of patriarchy put together (ymmv).
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“Sites lite feministing read like 6th grade mean girls gossiping with each other about how awesome they are how much they _loathe_ those uncool kids who want to sit next to them in the lunchroom, like who do they think they _are_, anyway?”
– Given that I published dozens of posts ridiculing the website in question, it is very strange that people address accusations to that site to me. Why not lay them at the door of the addressees?
“Please, the poor-little-me card does not become you.”
– I can’t decipher this sentence at all.
“What I loved about musteryou’s comment was nicely articulating what I find off-putting in the younger online ‘feminist’ sites I come across (not yours). ”
– Let’s say you come to a Jewish person’s blog and leave a comment about the evil behavior of Jews.
“What did I do to provoke all this anger?” the Jewish person will ask.
“No, this isn’t about you. This is about other Jews I met someplace else,” you’d say.
Substitute the for Jew for man, woman, American, Liberal, Conservative, Christian, Muslim, etc.
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“Whatever wave of femnism we’re onto now is doing more to infantalize women and feminism than the last 200 years of patriarchy put together (ymmv).”
– Oh Jesus. Sure, using words like “cool” and “empowering” (which was the only specific accusation in the original post) is SO much more infantilizing that having no right to own property, work, vote, acquire an education and have financial freedom. Now who is being infantile?
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Okay, I’m not sure what’s going on I’m not sure if it’s the Aspie thing or not being a native speaker of English or somethng else (or a combination of two or more of those). So, in no particular order (if I’m writing anything overly obvious then I apologize in advance)
“doesn’t become you” = is not flatterng to you = doesn’t make you look good (metaphorically)
part of being a successful blogger is the comment conversation ranging off into directions very different from that suggested by the original post – musteryou said some things about some current feminists (not you) and it nicely articulated something I’d notice but yet articulated so I heartily approved her comment.
If you want it to always be about you then say so (and delete comments that go too far off topic and be prepared for far fewer comments). Otherwise comments will drift in all kinds of directions that may be…. inspired by the original post but aren’t directly about it (or you).
“having no right to own property, work, vote, acquire an education and have financial freedom”
If that’s the agenda then congratulations, in the US feminism won. None of those are serious issues in the US at present (the last is but it affects everyone, not just women). My problem with most of the young whatever wave we’re on now feminists is they don’t seem to be about these issues – they’re all about getting free shit from the government and meddling with people’s personal values that really aren’t their business.
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““doesn’t become you” = is not flatterng to you = doesn’t make you look good (metaphorically)”
– What makes you think I care about looking good to people I never met? This is bizarre, indeed.
“part of being a successful blogger is the comment conversation ranging off into directions very different from that suggested by the original post”
– I never asked anybody for lectures on how to be a successful blogger. I feel very successful in this area as it is.
“If that’s the agenda then congratulations, in the US feminism won. None of those are serious issues in the US at present ”
– These were serious issues in the past 200 years – which is the time span suggested by yourself.
“My problem with most of the young whatever wave we’re on now feminists is they don’t seem to be about these issues – they’re all about getting free shit from the government and meddling with people’s personal values that really aren’t their business.”
– Since the only feminist in this discussion is me, it makes sense either to demonstrate where I have asked for any free shit or to lay these accusations at the door of the people who do ask for free shit.
“If you want it to always be about you then say so (and delete comments that go too far off topic and be prepared for far fewer comments). ”
– You are kind of new to the blog, so I will tell you this: nothing makes me more livid than getting unsolicited advice. Please never offer any advice to me that I did not ask for, OK?
“Otherwise comments will drift in all kinds of directions that may be…. inspired by the original post but aren’t directly about it (or you).”
– I can only repeat that it annoys me to receive complaints about some vaguely defined, imaginary feminists who have infantilized all women and asked for imaginary free shit. There are tons of spaces on the Internet where the bugbear of mean, evil feminists is deplored. Such discussions bore me and should be taken elsewhere. I like specific arguments, not vague complaints about the universe.
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““doesn’t become you” = is not flatterng to you = doesn’t make you look good (metaphorically)”
– What makes you think I care about looking good to people I never met? This is bizarre, indeed.
What part of ‘metaphorically’ don’t you get?
People are engaged in spirited discussion (not about you) and you weigh in with the equivalent of “why are people being mean to me?” It makes you seem like a less vigorously intellectual person than I’ve been assuming you are.
“My problem with most of the young whatever wave we’re on now feminists is they don’t seem to be about these issues – they’re all about getting free shit from the government and meddling with people’s personal values that really aren’t their business.”
– Since the only feminist in this discussion is me, it makes sense either to demonstrate where I have asked for any free shit or to lay these accusations at the door of the people who do ask for free shit.
Okay, straight question: Do you _want_ all the comments to be about you or not? If yes, then I’m wasting my time here. I’m interested in exploring ideas (wrong and right) not massaging egos.
– You are kind of new to the blog, so I will tell you this: nothing makes me more livid than getting unsolicited advice. Please never offer any advice to me that I did not ask for, OK?
I didn’t think I was offering unsolicited advice there, but on the other hand I did offer unsolicited advice a few days ago that you seemed to like (maybe you didn’t recognize it as such but that’ what it was). Perhaps you mean “please never offer any advice to me that I don’t like”?
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“It makes you seem like a less vigorously intellectual person than I’ve been assuming you are.”
– We have started going in circles. 🙂 🙂 I don’t care how I seem to people or what people choose to assume.
How do you feel about folks saying that “men rape, ergo all men are rapists”? How would you feel if somebody came to you blog with this statement? That’s how I feel when people direct their resentments against imaginary feminists to me.
“Do you _want_ all the comments to be about you or not?”
– No. I want comments to be specific. Statements like “feminists want free shit” bore me because they lack specifics. If you were to give concrete names and say things like “Feminists X, Y and Z want free shit, here are links to posts where they demanded it”, I would be very interested.
“Perhaps you mean “please never offer any advice to me that I don’t like”?”
– Are you trying to make this discussion stall? I can only repeat: I hate getting unsolicited advice, please do not do it. Is this such a difficult request to honor?
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“People are engaged in spirited discussion (not about you) and you weigh in with the equivalent of “why are people being mean to me?”
– This isn’t even remotely what happened. Musteryou made a comment and I responded. You, for some reason, started defending her from me.
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My comment was not directed at you.
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I understand what Cliff Arroyo is saying but it surprises me that make-up occupies such a strange category in so many men’s minds. Of course, as I said above, wearing make-up is somewhat motivated by socialization. In that sense, we do it “for others.” We are part of a social world. We are socialized from the moment we are born. Unless we are hermits, EVERYTHING (from food to music to the books we read) becomes about out how we as individuals interact with the society and people around us.
So make-up isn’t unique here. It’s like wearing clothes. We don’t really see our own clothes. They are indeed a social signifier. In the “state of nature,” everyone would be naked. Only a very small part of the “ritual of clothing” involves protection from the elements. Clothing is a part of our culture—and a part of our culture that brings many people, both men and women, pleasure (and frustration.) In part, the pleasure of clothing derives from a desire to attract others sexually.
But I would hope that most people can agree that viewing clothing as _only_ a mechanism for sexual attraction is woefully reductive. Clothing is about decoration, about aesthetics, about the “art of the self.” Make-up is the same (as are jewelry, piercings, tattoos etc.) I find it curious and somewhat troubling that men seem to cling to the belief that make-up occupies some special category for women that’s different than clothing or jewelry. It seems to belie a troubling need to categorize women as always thinking about and wanting to please men.
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” Clothing is about decoration, about aesthetics, about the “art of the self.” ”
– Also, sometimes it is simply too cold to walk around naked. 🙂
I find the idea that women wear make-up solely to attract men to be very dangerous. Given that most women in monogamous relationships don’t wear make-up at home but do wear it outside the home, then any woman can be assaulted sexually with impunity. This is rape mentality at its scariest. Instead of choosing the reasonable route of asking individual women why they wear make-up, LP decides that it is their way of signaling desire for sex and refuses to hear any objections. What a convenient position for all of the fans of the “She asked for it” excuse.
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“Even if individuals is in a great relationship, they have the tendency (not all, but a big majority) to want to attract others. That’s simply human nature.”
I said this and I think this is in fact a good thing. The bad thing is the bullshitting fake around this because of some religious faggot women-hating institution.
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“The bad thing is the bullshitting fake around this because of some religious faggot women-hating institution.”
– Let’s keep completely extraneous things such as religion out of this thread because it promises to become overgrown already.
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The bullshitting around “you should not attempt to attract others when you’re in couple” is created by these religious woman-hating faggots, so this is not an extraneous thing.
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“The bullshitting around “you should not attempt to attract others when you’re in couple” is created by these religious woman-hating faggots, so this is not an extraneous thing.”
– Monogamy is a sexual orientation just like any other. It exists irrespective of any religion and is often practiced by atheists and agnostics who never set their foot inside a church.
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“Given that most women in monogamous relationships don’t wear make-up at home but do wear it outside the home, then any woman can be assaulted sexually with impunity. This is rape mentality at its scariest. Instead of choosing the reasonable route of asking individual women why they wear make-up, LP decides that it is their way of signaling desire for sex and refuses to hear any objections. What a convenient position for all of the fans of the “She asked for it” excuse.”
I don’t kno if it’s that what LP is thinking about, but this is not what I think. There’s is no such “right to rape”.
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know
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“Monogamy is a sexual orientation just like any other. It exists irrespective of any religion and is often practiced by atheists and agnostics who never set their foot inside a church.”
This is raving lunacy.
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Why is it raving lunacy?? I believe it is probably true, although people can be monogamous in practice, or temporarily, and later follow a different path, so monogamy is perhaps not as set in stone as some people seem to feel sexual orientation to be.
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It’s raving lunacy because it’s not based about the historical evolution of this woman-hating faggot institution. This is not because someone is an atheist that it’s way of life (not a sexual orientation) is not conditioned by religious institutions.
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“This is not because someone is an atheist that it’s way of life (not a sexual orientation) is not conditioned by religious institutions.”
– I grew up in a country that has been 99,9% atheist for generations. Still, many people were happily monogamous simply because that is who they are.
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So, I’ve been in a polyamorous relationship and read a lot of stuff about polyamory, and there are some in that community (it is a community, people get together online to talk about things relating to polyamory, give each other advice etc.) who think polyamory is an orientation. You are polyamorous, or you are not.
I understand this to an extent — some people have such strong feelings of sexual jealousy, or such a strong desire for exclusivity (not sure those two things overlap 100%) that the thought of sharing a sexual partner with others makes them break out in (metaphorical) hives. For other people, it’s no problem at all, and might even make them feel happy that their partners have some extra intimacy in their lives. That sort of thing varies a lot by individual, and there’s no right or wrong to it — it’s just how you feel. So I can see the rationale behind calling it an orientation, even if I don’t think of it that way.
(I think of polyamory as something you and your partners *do* together.)
All this is to say, if one can accept that the willingness or ability to be in a polyamorous relationship has aspects that vary between individuals …. that is a concept that sits really close to “sexual orientation” in my head. Things that differ between people when it comes to sexual attraction and relationships. Not ALL of those things count as sexual orientation, but obviously some do. And it is not clear to me at all how much these things are up to the individual or under individual control. Can a monogamous person let go of their need for faithfulness? Can they *really* do it, without coming to resent their polygamous partner(s)? Should they try? I have no idea. My own choice would be to be faithful to a monogamous partner, because it apparently means so much to them, but maybe not every person capable of polyamory would make that choice. Maybe, for them, poly/monogamy are incompatible orientations that do not belong in a relationship with one another.
You’re absolutely right that patriarchal religions have really muddied the water around monogamy, and made it harder to tease out whether it really is what most people want, but I doubt that patriarchal religion is the only thing making people monogamous, and that we would all be polyamorous or promiscuous if it were absent. There is no way to answer that question, though, as it is a hypothetical.
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“Can a monogamous person let go of their need for faithfulness?”
– I can’t and I don’t see why I should as long as I only enter into relationships with people who share my orientation completely. Of course, I would NEVER want a person to suppress their natural urges and remain faithful to me at the expense of their physical and mental health. This is why if my husband or I experienced any sexual or romantic interest in any other person, I would end my relationship with him immediately. I’m not inviting anybody to follow my example, of course. I;m just saying what I would do.
“I doubt that patriarchal religion is the only thing making people monogamous, and that we would all be polyamorous or promiscuous if it were absent”
– Exactly. I have already given the example of my own deeply non-religious culture.
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“This is why if my husband or I experienced any sexual or romantic interest in any other person”
How does that work? How do you define ‘sexual or romantic interest’?
I can absolutely understand (and heartily support) behavioral monogamy.
But most people’s minds are a different story altogether. Fleeting attractions with no deep emotional content and which a person doesn’t physically act on seem to be a pretty normal part of most people’s mental functioning.
And true to my taxonomic inclinations I think of orientation as dealing with the kind of body a person is attracted to (male, female, both, neither, etc)
Monogamy (in its variants) and the various alternatives seem to be about something else. I wouldn’t be surprised if someone has come up with a name for it which I’m just not familiar with. For right now I’ll call it ‘relationship focus’
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” Fleeting attractions with no deep emotional content and which a person doesn’t physically act on seem to be a pretty normal part of most people’s mental functioning.”
– I have absolutely no problem with people being the way they are even if that way of being is completely different from mine. 🙂
“For right now I’ll call it ‘relationship focus’”
– There was a time when I feared and hated relationships but was still profoundly monogamous.
“How does that work? How do you define ‘sexual or romantic interest’?”
– I didn’t know there were different definitions. 🙂
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“This is raving lunacy.”
– Let’s be respectful of each other’s sexualities, OK? I will respect yours, and you will respect mine. Won’t that be fun? 🙂
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Let’s be respectful on real sexual orientations, OK!
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“Let’s be respectful on real sexual orientations, OK!”
– Respect consists in not passing judgment on whether other people’s orientations are “real.”
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And pretending that monogamy is a sexual orientation is a raving lunatic comment.
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And I don’t think LGBTQI (personally, I would not add the “A” because I don’t think asexuality exists) people would be happy with that kind of comment.
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“And I don’t think LGBTQI (personally, I would not add the “A” because I don’t think asexuality exists) people would be happy with that kind of comment.”
– With your questioning of sexual orientation as being something that happens outside of our choice? Yes, they would be quite unhappy.
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I’m bisexual, and for me it’s inherently tied up with the question of whether polyamory is an orientation or not. Certainly some people take to it more readily than others. I myself don’t consider it an orientation so much as a practice, a way of conducting one’s romantic and sexual relationships, but other poly people do call it an orientation. It seems obvious to me that if being poly is an orientation, then so is being mono.
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“I myself don’t consider it an orientation so much as a practice, a way of conducting one’s romantic and sexual relationships, but other poly people do call it an orientation.”
– I think that both approaches are perfectly fine and that both are based in how individual people experience this. Just like monogamy might be a choice for some and a natural inclination for others.
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It is my sexual orientation and it seems to bother you just as much as homosexuality bothers any religious fanatic. Interesting. . . 🙂 🙂
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It’s your way of life and you have the right to be jailed on this. But this is not a sexual orientation.
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“It’s your way of life and you have the right to be jailed on this. But this is not a sexual orientation.”
– This is EXACTLY what gay bashers say. Don’t you notice that?
This is the most funny thread in a very long time. 🙂 🙂 People are going berserk.
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Yeah…I admit that discussion went way far beyond make-up. Make-up is not a very important thing, in fact.
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” Make-up is not a very important thing, in fact.”
– That is very hard to believe given how emotional people are getting in this thread. Note how the post on course eliminations in Quebec will cause nothing like this sort of interest.
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unfortunately…
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its way…
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But you know what, you’re not the only one that believes in this raving lunacy. Almost all “Québécois de souche” women (and men) in Québec believe in this fucktard ideology.
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Sexual orientation is not a matter of belief or choice, contrary to what anti-gay fanatics want us to think.
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I agree. Sexual orientation is always natural. Monogamy doesn’t meet this criteria.
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“I agree. Sexual orientation is always natural. Monogamy doesn’t meet this criteria.”
– I’m sure you can do better than the old and tired “everybody who is not like me is unnatural” argument.
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And the vast majority of monogamous people have no respect at all to non-monogamous people, like the heterosexuals with the LGBTQIA people.
Or maybe I should play the game of sexual orientations, after all…
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“And the vast majority of monogamous people have no respect at all to non-monogamous people, like the heterosexuals with the LGBTQIA people.”
– This is the best. 🙂 🙂 First, I get blamed for some imaginary feminists who want free shit. Then, I get blamed for bigots who disrespect otehr sexual orientations.
AND ALL THIS JOY JUST IN ONE DAY AND ON A SINGLE THREAD.
Folks, this is too funny, seriously. 🙂 🙂 🙂
“Or maybe I should play the game of sexual orientations, after all…”
– As long as you stop playing the “Blame Clarissa for the universe’s imperfections” game.
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I don’t blame Clarissa. I blamed the vast majority of monogamous people who have no respect at all to non-monogamous people. So why you act like them right now? Please stop your posturing bullshit.
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” I blamed the vast majority of monogamous people who have no respect at all to non-monogamous people. So why you act like them right now?”
– I’m only suggesting that we respect and don;t judge other people’s sexualities. What is so traumatic about this suggestion?
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Let’s suppose for the that your raving lunacy is real and that monogamy is a pure non-religious induced sexual orientation.
So let’s define monogamy as an sexual orientation.
Monogamy: The sexual orientation that consists to not be attracted sexually to any other people than your actual partner.
Sorry, but I don’t see at all how there’s such a thing. I will always be attracted by Laeticia Casta, sorry.
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“Sorry, but I don’t see at all how there’s such a thing. I will always be attracted by Laeticia Casta, sorry.”
– You don’t have to be sorry. 🙂 I don’t know who Laeticia is, but I fully support your right to be polygamous. It is just as valid and respectable as my being monogamous.
You see how nice it is to be tolerant of sexual difference? 🙂
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And that’s great! 🙂 So maybe you should criticize other members of your sexual orientation to stop be non-monogamous-phobic bigots.
But again, I can’t believe than you’re not attracted by any other men than your partner.
P.S.; In fact, there’s better than Laeticia Casta, but I wil not name her here. I will always be attracted to her, unless she would be becoming too slim.
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“So maybe you should criticize other members of your sexual orientation to stop be non-monogamous-phobic bigots.”
– This is too hilarious for words. Are you guys being funny on purpose? Not an hour after i asked on reader to keep the unsolicited advice to himself, another one begins in the same thread!!
“But again, I can’t believe than you’re not attracted by any other men than your partner.”
– That’s your right. 🙂 🙂
All this put me in a very good mood.
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“I grew up in a country that has been 99,9% atheist for generations. Still, many people were happily monogamous simply because that is who they are.”
Of course, there was no Orthodox Christian colonization in Ukraine before communism and communists had a great respect for other sexual orientations than hetero-monogamy!
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“Of course, there was no Orthodox Christian colonization in Ukraine before communism”
– If you are arguing that what happened 5 generations before is more important than what one is witnessing now, then you can offer supporting research. I, for one, do not think you will find it.
“and communists had a great respect for other sexual orientations than hetero-monogamy!”
– What does this have to do with religion exactly? Remember that you were the one who brought up religion in this context.
It is unquestionable that many people were / still are pushed into monogamy against their inclination and their will. This is horrible and unacceptable. However, that does not mean that nobody on the planet is naturally monogamous.
I will ask once again, what is so threatening in the idea that some people’s sexualities are different from yours? Not better, not more superior, just different?
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“If you are arguing that what happened 5 generations before is more important than what one is witnessing now, then you can offer supporting research. I, for one, do not think you will find it”
Not “more important” but “very important”, of course yes!
“What does this have to do with religion exactly? Remember that you were the one who brought up religion in this context. ”
I never said that It was only caused by religion. But again, these bolchevists lived also in the orthodox christian Ukraine the era before they take control.
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It is unquestionable that many people were / still are pushed into monogamy against their inclination and their will. This is horrible and unacceptable. However, that does not mean that nobody on the planet is naturally monogamous.
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I should wrote “bolchevism”. My bad… 😦
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“Not an hour after i asked on reader to keep the unsolicited advice to himself, another one begins in the same thread!! ”
When you do the same to homophobes here, I support you on this. So I ask the same about mongamists.
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“When you do the same to homophobes here, I support you on this. So I ask the same about mongamists.”
– OK, once again: I ask absolutely everybody without exception to stop offering me advice. Is that so hard to understand?
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“It is unquestionable that many people were / still are pushed into monogamy against their inclination and their will. This is horrible and unacceptable.”
That’s what I want you to say!
“However, that does not mean that nobody on the planet is naturally monogamous.”
If you accept my definition of monogamy as a sexual orientation, there’s no such a thing. Do you have another definition, though?
You seem to be confused between “sex” and “love”. I never said that should have no preference for anybody, which is absolutely normal. This is not what I’m talking about.
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“If you accept my definition of monogamy as a sexual orientation, there’s no such a thing. Do you have another definition, though?”
– No, I like yours. As a monogamous person, I’m incapable of experiencing any attraction to anybody than my partner. That’s just who I am. Remember my story about not noticing a crowd of naked guys? 🙂 That’s just how it is. I’m still surprised that people are getting so upset about it.
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“This is why if my husband or I experienced any sexual or romantic interest in any other person, I would end my relationship with him immediately.”
So if this would happen to him, you will not have sex with anyone anymore? And this is impossible that this would happen to yourself, because monogamy is your natural sexual orientation!
And if, for the sake a of an example, N. tells you frankly to you that Angelina Jolie is attractive instead of lying by omission…this is the end?
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“And if, for the sake a of an example, N. tells you frankly to you that Angelina Jolie is attractive instead of lying by omission…this is the end?”
– If he feels sexually attracted to computer-generated images, I would suggest that he consult a sexopathologist. If he shares his attractions with his wife, he is a manipulative jerk who should be kicked out on his ass immediately. I never understood folks who just sit there and tolerate this kind of blatant manipulation and disrespect.
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And if you ask him the question and he answers “Yes”?
“If he shares his attractions with his wife, he is a manipulative jerk who should be kicked out on his ass immediately”
No, the real manipulators will fake and lie. I prefer to be a manipulative jerk than to be a “naturally sexually oriented” liar.
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You are forgetting that I’m not 14. 🙂
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What question? About Angelina Jolie? If I do, he will think I suffered a massive brain damage. Adults people don’t have such infantile discussions. What next? “Do I look fat in these pants? ” :–)
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More than a few women do wear make up because of feeling not presentable / attractive enough without it. In my early 20ies I was told by several other young women that no presentably looking, not badly smelling (such a “high” standard!) man will want make-up-less me with undone eyebrows. And those women were not the worst (intelligence, etc).
Btw, isn’t a traditional Ukrainian beauty supposed to have black eyebrows?
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“Btw, isn’t a traditional Ukrainian beauty supposed to have black eyebrows?”
– That happens naturally. 🙂 Unlike the Russians, Ukrainians are black-haired and dark-eyed.
” I was told by several other young women that no presentably looking, not badly smelling (such a “high” standard!) man will want make-up-less me with undone eyebrows. And those women were not the worst (intelligence, etc).”
– Very sad. They don’t even know that it is a person’s natural body odor that attracts sexual partners. Poor things make it harder for sex partners to find them by masking their body odor. And then they sit there and complain about being lonely.
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// That happens naturally. Unlike the Russians, Ukrainians are black-haired and dark-eyed.
I refered to (opposing and strange to me) idea that trimming eyebrows out of existence is the hight of attraction.
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Nobody believes I do nothing to mine. I’m too lazy, though.
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Just looked and saw the following. Hard to believe it’s done for healthy, not society related reasons:
http://echidneofthesnakes.blogspot.co.il/2013/01/labiaplasty-why-on-earth.html
Make-up has be often used unhealthily too, if even those extreme things happen.
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Uncanny!!! I was just looking at the same post.
Of course, I support everybody,’s right to do whatever they want with their bodies but these folks are too bizzare. Some sort of sexual trauma, I think.
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This, albeit on another topic, I just had to share:
http://echidneofthesnakes.blogspot.co.il/2013/01/on-pregnancy-police.html
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Completely horrible. This just confirms my point that foetus -worshippers have no interest in foetuses. They simply hate women.
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I will never pretend that I’m the beautiful man in the world. I’m too much a manipulative jerk to pretend that.
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I will never pretend that I’m the beautifulest man in the world. I’m too much a manipulative jerk to pretend that.
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Once again, people are different. I cannot be with somebody who is not the most beautiful man in the world to me. I simply don’t see the point of settling for less than perfection.
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“If he shares his attractions with his wife, he is a manipulative jerk who should be kicked out on his ass immediately.”
If a woman tells me that kind of shit in the real life, I would run away subito presto.
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People are different. 🙂
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“I simply don’t see the point of settling for less than perfection.
When the perfection doens’t want you as much, there’s a point…
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“When the perfection doens’t want you as much, there’s a point…”
– I’m very sorry for people who have experienced this.
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And you know what, even this perfection is not the beautifulest woman in the world, but she’s the most interesting though…for now.
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“And you know what, even this perfection is not the beautifulest woman in the world, but she’s the most interesting though…for now.”
– I think that’s very good, too. 🙂
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“What question? About Angelina Jolie? If I do, he will think I suffered a massive brain damage.”
Okay, forget Angelina Jolie. What about someone both of you know in the real life? (it’s not necessary to ask him the question…just if he tells you that…)
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“What about someone both of you know in the real life? (it’s not necessary to ask him the question…just if he tells you that…)”
– I already said: end the relationship. This is not the kind of a relationship I need.
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even If you would have a baby right now?
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“even If you would have a baby right now?”
– I do not believe in being miserable “for the sake of” the poor baby.
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A dealed adjusted new open relationship is not being miserable.
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“A dealed adjusted new open relationship is not being miserable.”
– For non-monogamous people, I’m sure it will be extremely happy. For monogamous people, though, it is extreme misery. Which is precisely what I’m trying to explain here. People are different, and that’s the beauty of the world. 🙂
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Note that I didn’t talk about a real adultery here.
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“Note that I didn’t talk about a real adultery here.”
– Adultery only exists when people are dishonest. When everybody is honest from the start, that is the best policy, I think. So many problems arise because people initially keep quiet about their preferences and desires out of a misguided intention to make a good impression.
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It’s extremely subjective. Most men f.e. would dump a woman suddenly offering such to them post-marriage.
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“It’s extremely subjective. Most men f.e. would dump a woman suddenly offering such to them post-marriage.”
– People normally discuss their orientation way before getting married.
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// People normally discuss their orientation way before getting married.
Actually, no. Because being monogamous is the automatic assumption, enough people after X years of marriage would want to have sex with others too, but (often rightly) don’t think it’s a possibility, if they want to preserve their family.
There are worse cases too. F.e. on a forum for Israeli university students one man said he would like to have an open marriage after ~10 years of being married, but isn’t going to warn a woman before those years passing. Because he thinks all women will refuse in the beginning (with being a “good girl” thing playing a role too), but would be more likely to agree later.
In Israel because of religious laws a “cheating” woman would be in much worse position than a cheating man in a divorce court imo, which is another thing a woman must consider before agreeing to such. Especially if she has mutual children and a husband offers opening as a way to “save marriage”. Afterwards in court he’ll be able to use it against her.
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“Because being monogamous is the automatic assumption, enough people after X years of marriage would want to have sex with others too, but (often rightly) don’t think it’s a possibility, if they want to preserve their family.”
– This isn;t a marriage you are describing. It’s a fake.
“F.e. on a forum for Israeli university students one man said he would like to have an open marriage after ~10 years of being married, but isn’t going to warn a woman before those years passing.”
– I was a child, too, and I also believed all kinds of childish things. And then I grew up. 🙂 If we are talking about an actual marriage between two people who are the closest human beings to each other on Earth, concealing anything of this proportion is a fantasy. My husband knows even sitting in a different room when I get an upsetting email in my room. And we haven’t been married for 10 years yet.
In a close relationship, you feel very sharply when the connection between you two gets interrupted even for a moment. So all of these stories about how “my spouse had 15 lovers and 25 children on the side / gambled / used drugs / was a serial killer and I had absolutely no idea” are lies.
“In Israel because of religious laws a “cheating” woman would be in much worse position than a cheating man in a divorce court imo, which is another thing a woman must consider before agreeing to such. Especially if she has mutual children and a husband offers opening as a way to “save marriage”. Afterwards in court he’ll be able to use it against her.”
– This is why I insist that an civilized society should protect the separation between church and state at any cost.
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Rush Limbaugh: ‘You Know How to Stop Abortion? Require That Each One Occur With a Gun’
http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2013/01/rush-limbaugh-you-know-how-to-stop-abortion-require-that-each-one-occur-with-a-gun/267279/
But recently, anti-choicers have grown a bit tired of pretending that this is about “life” … Couldn’t make it more clear that gun nuttery is part of a larger constellation of a psycho-sexual obsession with masculine dominance. Must have MORE GUNS while making sure that women are firmly relegated to a second class citizen status, unable to exert basic control over their bodies. Ugh.
http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2013/01/18/rush-limbaugh-incites-violence-against-women-seeking-abortion/
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“But recently, anti-choicers have grown a bit tired of pretending that this is about “life” … Couldn’t make it more clear that gun nuttery is part of a larger constellation of a psycho-sexual obsession ”
– Finally somebody has started pointing this out. Hallelujah.
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Somebody is Amanda Marcotte from Pandagon.
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I’m changing my opinion of her for the better as we speak. 🙂
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