What I find completely bizarre is how the recent developments in Hugo Schwyzer’s life are leading many people to say that now they doubt his sincerity. I have no idea how they even manage to connect sincerity to what is going on.
Even the sincerest among us can get sick. Even the most determined to stay healthy can end up in a hospital. Having a nervous breakdown does not in any way invalidate the sincerity of one’s political position or of one’s desire to be healthy. I mean, I recently developed gestational diabetes. Does that make you doubt the sincerity of my last week’s post on the separation of spheres as a patriarchal phenomenon? If so, then you are the one who belongs in a mental clinic.
The degree of earnestness you invest into an endeavor does not guarantee success. It is only the very immature who believe that trying very very hard will ensure that things will work out.
If one were to discover that Hugo had donated money to Mitt Romney’s campaign or collected signatures to shut down a Planned Parenthood clinic, then yes, people would be justified in suspecting that everything he had ever written on the subject of feminism was a lie. But having marital trouble and getting sick are in no way related to how honest one is about one’s political convictions. Or about trying to avoid getting sick or having marital trouble.
Everything said above can be applied to Hugo’s marital issues. How many relationships in your life have failed despite your completely earnest and sincere dedication to making them work? One? Two? Eight? Are those failures evidence that you were insincere all along? If so, then you need to reexamine the kind of magical thinking that leads you to invest sincerity with the power to make everything right.
And just so that I don’t have to start a new post on this subject: if you in any way care about the nature of Hugo’s marital problems and wonder if he cheated on his wife, who he cheated with, how many times, etc., you need to know that you have serious psychosexual issues that you’d be well-served to address. An emotional investment into the sex lives of anybody other than your own sex partners is not healthy.
Clarissa's Blog 
I think part of it is that he is absolutely a full-out manipulator, and he manipulates without a conscience about it. It looks like you’ve been taken in by him, frankly.
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And here is yet another form of mental disorder: believing that words published online have power over you. Do tell, do you also hear voices that “manipulate” you into doing things?
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It seems that if people find something emotionally persuasive, that is to say attractive, and yet not wholly oriented toward serving the group or identity that is considered valuable, such a thing will be considered manipulative.
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These must be the same people who love the passive voice so much and who are “shamed, conditioned and hard-wired” to do and think everything they do or think.
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I would say so. To the degree they become self-aware, they tend to demand that one ought not to color outside the lines, but remain firmly within the boundaries of a certain recognizable identity. If the identity becomes complex to the point of no longer being easily identifiable, you will most probably be accused of being a manipulator. But then you will not have any charisma and will be entirely wooden and bureaucratic.
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—If the identity becomes complex to the point of no longer being easily identifiable, you will most probably be accused of being a manipulator.
I would agree with that… if only Hugo did not care about his externally perceived identity, his image. But he does care. And, I do not know how consciously, he made a lot of effort creating that “reformed” image.
In other words, I do not really care what exactly Hugo was not sincere about, his personal life (of which I know only because he himself made his personal life a vehicle of proving his various points) or about donating to Romney, or whatever. I do not think that sincerity is panacea, or that any kinds of personal problems somehow invalidate anybody’s writings on feminist theory. (On a second thought, if it turned out he was beating his wife, wouldn’t you feel that he is a fraud as a feminist?) But to the extent he himself chose to involve his personal image, his personal growth and his personal transformation as arguments proving his points, he opened himself to scrutiny. Does he practice what he preaches, or does he not?
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“Does he practice what he preaches, or does he not?”
– When he preached about it, he did. As soon as he couldn’t do it any longer, he informed everybody in the linked posts.
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I can see why Schwyzer cares about his externally perceived identity, but why do you?
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I couldn’t care less about him but it does bug me a lot when people develop profound emotional attachments to bloggers and end up bullying them. I identify with Hugo in this respect. Of course, I’m not as popular as he is, so it never happened to me on this enormous scale, but it has happened. And it is VERY creepy.
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You mean why are we all discussing Hugo here, instead of other subjects? 🙂
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Because nobody seems to care much about anything else and as a journalist I have to go where the story is. 🙂
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Clarissa, I just do not think his transition to his current state was immediate. It is rather unlikely that up to a certain point he was in full control of himself, and practiced what he preached, etc, end then abruptly lost control of himself. I find it more likely that this development was somewhat gradual, and that there was some element of a freedom of choice he could exercise re his actions, but did not. While continuing to preach.
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I just went and looked on his blog, and there hasn’t been a single personal post for months.
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And yet you yourself wrote in one of your Hugo-related posts, or maybe in the comments, that you’ve noticed how he is writing about staying faithful to his wife being hard work for him…
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Those posts happened a long time ago. Definitely over a year, probably longer. I remember yelling at the computer, “Just go do it already!” because there was so much verbal masturbation around the idea. 🙂 🙂
Yes, I often talk to electronic devices.
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When he preached about it, he did. As soon as he couldn’t do it any longer, he informed everybody in the linked posts.(Clarissa)
Priceless. And now you know what Hugo was doing and for how long? I take it he is one of your good friends. Did it ever occur to you that he may have been at it a lot longer and just came out now because he was about to be outed by someone else? Odds are that is much more likely. But then again, Clarissa does know best. 🙂
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“Did it ever occur to you that he may have been at it a lot longer and just came out now because he was about to be outed by someone else? Odds are that is much more likely.”
– No, I have a very happy sex life, so I don’t dwell on who slept with whom and for how long. Try it, I highly recommend. 🙂
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// When he preached about it, he did. As soon as he couldn’t do it any longer, he informed everybody in the linked posts. […] I just went and looked on his blog, and there hasn’t been a single personal post for months.
That isn’t what happened. He continued to publish on other blogs, while cheating.
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“That isn’t what happened. He continued to publish on other blogs, while cheating.”
– As for articles on other resources, I specifically looked and saw not a single personal one for months. That was a blessing because those personal posts were the definition of boring.
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Do not know how anyone with his looks and vibe gets read regularly, let alone laid, but I guess that is just me.
I’m sure his pain is real.
I guess he got the women from the Internet … what takes work when you are married is finding additional people to sleep with, path of least resistance is not to search. And I am sure he was not just mobbed by women as he walked down the streets of L.A.
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“Do not know how anyone with his looks and vibe gets read regularly, let alone laid, but I guess that is just me.”
– He is the opposite of my type, so you are not alone. 🙂 I don’t get the charm of these typical California boys.
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“Typical California boy?” Looks like Ohio used car salesman. If you mean typical Orange County blond surfer type, they would not have that look of ill health.
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Maybe I should amend it to “my vision of a typical California boy based on TV shows.” I spent too little time in California to have a good grasp of what people typically look like there. 🙂
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It’s the look of health. People from the East get really angry. How can you look so healthy, it is self-indulgent. How can you look so healthy, it must be a lack of intelligence. But it’s the mild sun, the ability to exercise, and the fruit.
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Blah, blah, blah, blah.
Hugo is a fraud.
A persistent manipulator and abuser of women.
I’ve heard enough and am tired of it.
Good riddance to Hugo and his defenders.
“Sick” my ass. By now it’s an excuse – “I can’t help abusing women because I have an illness.” Yeah, right.
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Which women is he abusing? (present tense) You seem to know something that nobody else does.
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Which women is he abusing?(Clarissa)
His wife, and if he has daughters, them too. Every moment he continues to write his crap online he abuses the people closest to him.
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“His wife, and if he has daughters, them too. ”
– Knowing how I feel about child abuse, this is not something to joke with. How did he abuse his small daughter? Give me evidence and I PROMISE you, I will be contacting the CPS in his state. This is an extremely serious accusation. What do you know?
“Every moment he continues to write his crap online he abuses the people closest to him.”
– I thought I already reminded you to try to write in a way that makes sense according to the rules of the English language.
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Clarissa
Not all abusive behavior is punishable legally.
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“Not all abusive behavior is punishable legally.”
– You still have not provided an explanation of how Hugo is abusing his daughter or anybody else. Can you concentrate and do that? If not, then maybe you should stop cluttering the thread with these inanities.
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By teaching and preaching to his daughter what it means to be a good Christian and then going directly against it. That is an abuse of her trust in her father. On top of it, he does it all online so her friends and family can see.
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“By teaching and preaching to his daughter what it means to be a good Christian and then going directly against it. ”
– Just two days ago, you were making statements that were extremely offensive to Christian people and today you are sitting in judgment of who is a good Christian? And then Hugo is a hypocrite?
Shame on you.
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Ah, now comes the psychologically healthy Clarissa trying to publically shame me. There is nothing wrong with pointing out someone’s hypocrisy, afterall, like you they can just deny it if they so choose.
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“Ah, now comes the psychologically healthy Clarissa trying to publically shame me.”
– Another boring, useless comment. How many times have I explained that the concept of “shaming somebody” is meaningless and only used by idiots? Huh? Will you ever start paying attention?
“There is nothing wrong with pointing out someone’s hypocrisy”
– Which is why I just pointed out yours. You seem to consider this pointing out to be wrong, though.
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Technically that’s present continuous tense.
But titfortat is exactly right.
The women he lived with will go through who knows how much suffering and anguish due to the predatory abusive fraud that is Hugo. His wife and his mother-in-law. Can you imagine being in their shoes? It must be horrific.
He’s had his chances. Good riddance to him. PCC should fire his ass.
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Aren’t you mixing private and public spheres here? Even if he has been 100% horrible person, why connect this to PCC and work? If somebody is criminal (abuse, death threats to a partner), a place of work may consider this, but otherwise?
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“The women he lived with will go through who knows how much suffering and anguish due to the predatory abusive fraud that is Hugo. His wife and his mother-in-law.”
– So how is he abusing them? The mother-in-law’s participation in the whole story is completely new to me. Can you be clear about what you are saying or is there a purpose to your very roundabout way of talking about it.
“Can you imagine being in their shoes? It must be horrific.”
– If I were to engage in such imaginings, I would need to be institutionalized. Healthy people don’t do that. Let’s avoid flights of imagination and hear how Hugo abused his mother-in-law.
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He is a hypocrite who has brought public shame and embarrassment to his household. He professed, wrote about, and supposedly was committed to a monogamous relationship with his wife.
His wife’s mother is part of the household, a primary caretaker of his children.
There is no roundabout way of it whatsoever. Can you imagine their shame? What it feels like to have had the wool pulled over their eyes?
Healthy people have the power of empathy and don’t need to be institutionalized.
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“He is a hypocrite who has brought public shame and embarrassment to his household. He professed, wrote about, and supposedly was committed to a monogamous relationship with his wife.”
– Why are you assuming that Hugo’s family members are weird uncivilized prudes who believe that somebody else’s unfaithfulness puts THEM to shame? You sound like you are from the school of thought that believes women who have sex outside of marriage “shame” their families.
“He is a hypocrite who has brought public shame and embarrassment to his household. He professed, wrote about, and supposedly was committed to a monogamous relationship with his wife.
His wife’s mother is part of the household, a primary caretaker of his children.”
– Can you concentrate and answer a very simple question. How is Hugo abusing women? Do you understand what the word ‘abuse” means?
“Can you imagine their shame? ”
– You are projecting. There is nothing shameful about being cheated on or lied to.
“Healthy people have the power of empathy and don’t need to be institutionalized.”
– Imagining yourself as Hugo’s wife – which you keep doing – is decidedly unhealthy.
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How can someone be shamed by another person’s actions?
Also, how is cheating abuse? (except maybe in the loosest, abuse of trust sense of the word, but then we’re really playing fast and loose with meaning)
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“Also, how is cheating abuse?’
– More importantly, how is it abuse of the mother-in-law? I mean, this is the most bizarre notion I have heard in forever. 🙂 🙂
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But haven’t you heard the mother-in-law takes care of the children? Surely that makes her at least in some ways his wife. He cheats on one of them, he cheats on both!
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I find myself continually surprised by this discussion. I don’t think it’s a good idea to cheat or anything but I also don’t think unfaithful spouces spouces should lose their jobs or be booted from the public square. An unfaithful spouse can still be a good writer, a good parent, and (gasp) a good feminist. This is starting to seem like some modern day version of _The Scarlet Letter_!
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Hugo’s a predator in feminist spaces. A hypocrite. A fraud by his own words. He should have been fired long ago for the grossly unethical conduct of sexual relationships with students in his classes. He has brought undue attention to his place of work, behaved in a way that can hardly be seen as professional.
He chose a public life and has proven a fraud.
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You accused a person of abusing women and failed to explain what you meant, let alone prove it. So maybe you could stop chirping about fraud. You obviously can’t make a single comment that can be substantiated in any way. It’s all just silly, meaningless blabber for you.
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// Knowing how I feel about child abuse, this is not something to joke with. How did he abuse his small daughter?
The person meant not abused, but “deprived of normal family and possibly will make her ashamed of all her father’s cheatings being on Internet, one click away from her friends to know.”
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“The person meant not abused, but “deprived of normal family and possibly will make her ashamed of all her father’s cheatings being on Internet, one click away from her friends to know.””
– I don’t know who made the statement you put in inverted commas (I can’t scroll back effectively on this device) but this individual needs to be getting serious professional help with understanding family boundaries and healthy sexuality.
Still, two people in a row used the word “abuse” and failed to illustrate it. This constitutes libel. I’m getting very tired of these careless and irresponsible people who through around accusations without proving them.
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I made the statement. I mean, I put my understanding of her point in commas. Previously, you mentioned not thinking about group loyalty. Imo, here is another example of you not thinking about the (most?) very common approach to life. May be other readers will react to this and (dis)approve my point.
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“Imo, here is another example of you not thinking about the (most?) very common approach to life. ”
– This common approach is called the Electra complex. 🙂 It is very curable.
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What a joke.
Guess you don’t know what empathy is.
Also sounds like you don’t know what Hugo’s been blabbing for the last couple of years. And probably you don’t empathize with numerous women who have felt threatened by his predatory behavior and bogus preaching.
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// numerous women who have felt threatened by his predatory behavior
What and when has he done to threaten them?
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“And probably you don’t empathize with numerous women who have felt threatened by his predatory behavior and bogus preaching.”
– Are you at all capable of a dialogue? Who are these women? What exactly do they find threatening? Is there a specific reason why you are so vague?
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// – Why are you assuming that Hugo’s family members are weird uncivilized prudes who believe that somebody else’s unfaithfulness puts THEM to shame?
Again, it’s a common feeling (imo). Nobody likes to be gossiped about by friends, one’s boss knowing intimate details of one’s life, etc.
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“Again, it’s a common feeling (imo). Nobody likes to be gossiped about by friends, one’s boss knowing intimate details of one’s life, etc.”
– These are all projections and generalizations. You cannot possibly know anything about “nobody and everybody.” People have a different degree of extraversion and narcissism. All of these different degrees are completely within the norm. Some people are more private, some more public, some go out of their way to have paparazzi photograph every breath they take.
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If you don’t know what abuse in this situation means, if you need it spelled out for you, then blabbering is all that this most certainly is .
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The word has many meanings, actually. F.e. Hugo has committed abuse of trust, but not domestic violence or child abuse. In the most usual meaning of this word, cheating is not abuse. Something can be rotten to the core, yet not being defined as abuse.
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“F.e. Hugo has committed abuse of trust, but not domestic violence or child abuse. ”
– Whose trust? We cannot possibly know what trust or lack thereof exists between him and his wife. let alone him and his mother-in-law who really has nothing whatsoever to do with this story.
I wonder if people realize how ridiculous they sound when they say “his cheating on his wife abused his mother-in-law.” I’m beginning to wonder who belongs to the mental ward.
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“If you don’t know what abuse in this situation means, if you need it spelled out for you, then blabbering is all that this most certainly is .”
– Yes, I already realized that you cannot support your own statements with any evidence.
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One’s husband or father making certain details public may feel like being forced into exhibitionism. And can hurt one, even if in a perfect world it wouldn’t. Like nude pics drive some teen girls into suicides and hurt them in RL, even if in a perfect world, they shouldn’t.
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If we’re still talking about Schwyzer’s family, I haven’t seen him write anything about them. I don’t understand why he’s bothering with the prolonged goodbyes – as these comment threads show, the internet really doesn’t need to know about his infidelity – but even so, I fail to understand how his wife or kids would feel “forced into exhibitionism” because he barely mentions them in a couple of goodbyes.
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“One’s husband or father making certain details public may feel like being forced into exhibitionism.”
– Do you understand the meaning of the word “exhibitionism”? It’s like everybody is losing their grasp of vocabulary in this particular discussion. A father’s sex life belongs to him and is of absolutely no concern to his daughter. Unless she is in the grips of a raging Electra complex.
Try flipping the concept around. If a woman writes about her discovery of her sexuality and her struggles with it, does that hurt her sons? Should she stop for their sake?
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Ha!
What an absurd conversation!
Hair-splitting definitions, thought stopping comments.
Absurd.
HS has caused untold pain on many. It’s not difficult to find much evidence of this in the past couple of days. Anyone who knows his work can see this.
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Another commenter who can only make vague, unsubstantiated statements. Why am I not surprised?
It’s OK, buddy, you can relax. Nobody will outdo the ‘abused mother-in-law’ comment. That was the idiocy of the year.
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I wonder what his mother-in-law actually feels about this whole situation. YOUR comments are vague, Clarissa. They are condescending. And if you can’t catch the drift of what Jordan said, then I can’t imagine what a RL conversation might actually be like with you. There’s nothing vague about what Flavia Dzodan has to say. Nothing.
Good luck to you.
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“I wonder what his mother-in-law actually feels about this whole situation. ”
– And that makes you extremely freaky. Have you tried consulting a psychologist?
“I can’t imagine what a RL conversation might actually be like with you.”
– Good! I really don’t want to be a subject of your weird fantasies. Keep concentrating on Hugo’s mother-in-law instead.
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I have no idea who these Flavias and Jordans are. It is sad that people initiate a discussion and have zero understanding how to make themselves understood.
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Jordan already mentioned the word empathy for you. And you just condescendingly dismiss it as if she is a nut job. That is a not-so-clever method of thought-stopping discourse by you. Count me in as a nut job too since I can wholeheartedly empathize with what his family must be going through.
Maybe you’ll read Flavia Dzodan’s take.
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I can only repeat that I have no idea who these Flavias and Jordans are and I will not read anything recommended by somebody as intellectually impotent as you.
“Count me in as a nut job too since I can wholeheartedly empathize with what his family must be going through.”
– I already do. Pitying people who have not asked for your condescension is nasty and disgusting. But I’m sure it makes you feel good to condescend to these complete strangers. What you call “empathy” is nothing but contempt. It is absolutely disgusting.
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“What you call ’empathy’ is nothing but contempt.”
Wow, you may be an even bigger sociopath than Hugo, and that’s really saying something.
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You hardly sound like an academic.
Flavia Dzodan is a respected feminist writer.
Juanita Jordan is the previous commenter you dismissed for mentioning empathy.
You appear to be the one with contempt who doesn’t engage in a way that actually makes sense.
“Pitying people who have not asked for your condescension…” makes no sense.
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What really makes sense and is academic is that a guy called Hugo never hugged me when I was radiating empathy.
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Can you do me the kindness of taking your bunch of freaks and buzzing off my blog? This is not a place for the unintelligent airheads like you. Just go away, ok?
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“Intellectually impotent”
Ha!
Sounds dismissive and condescending to me. Something an academic shouldn’t have to sound like on a blog thread.
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My finger still hurts. Hugo, where art thou?
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Note the profound emotional involvement the crazies have with Hugo and his family. They want adoption, not a discussion! They so need him to be the good Daddy that they never had and he is not obliging! That animal!
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Yes, but that is his name– Hugo of the Hugs. He betrayed me, personally, first making me think he would hug me, but then disappearing from the Internet to a place I can’t detect.
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I will sound whatever I feel like. And yes, dismissive and condescending is exactly what I feel towards you. I also feel contemptuous.
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I am actually worried that if the meaning of “abuse” becomes so all-encompassing, this might be not a good thing, as it may dilute our willingness and ability to respond to and to help the victims of abuse more narrowly defined… If one (and here by “one” I mean individual people, groups of people or even movements) cries wolf too often, people will stop taking it seriously…
I understand there is nothing for Hugo’s mother in law to rejoice about, and I would most probably be upset if I were in her shoes. But come on, not everything that hurts me is an ABUSE… Maybe because I am so privileged?..
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“I am actually worried that if the meaning of “abuse” becomes so all-encompassing, this might be not a good thing, as it may dilute our willingness and ability to respond to and to help the victims of abuse more narrowly defined”
– That’s exactly what concerns me! If a mother-in-law is ABUSED by her son-in-law’s cheating, we have diluted the definition of abuse to the point of complete meaninglessness.
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omg
what a buncha bullshit by all of you
this thread is worthless
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People who waste their lives on commenting on worthless threads are extremely weird. If you don’t like the discussion, why not just leave?
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I’m just curious, Clarissa, what is your pony in this race?
You are going way overboard to defend this guy, and your explanations don’t seem to match the intensity you are applying to this.
You also fail to see that if he screws over enough people (like going through back channels to cause problems for people who say negative things about him), and presents all men as having his projected problems, and presents women as helpless waifs in need of a White Knight (Hugo) … maybe he’s going to get some pushback. And he did. And nobody likes a hypocrite.
So anyway, what’s your real motivation?
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August is the month when you have the highest chances to attract many blog visitors out of the entire year. It’s the month that pretty much decides if the blog will be read next year. So you have to write about the subjects that interest potential readers.
I already explained this yesterday, yet some people have trouble following even such extremely simple explanations.
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// So you have to write about the subjects that interest potential readers.
Sex – done!, patriarchy – done!, abortions, guns, middle east – Israel / Iran — waiting!!!, asexuality, etc. Have I missed any good suggestions?
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// Try flipping the concept around. If a woman writes about her discovery of her sexuality and her struggles with it, does that hurt her sons? Should she stop for their sake?
Actually, I have been thinking about the topic before reading your comment. The topic of a parent putting potentially “scandalous” or scandalous info about himself or herself on-line and where a line is passed. In today’s age, this parent should know that all the info will be known to the children and to their school friends and enemies, and children can be very cruel to each other. F.e. I don’t think putting on-line the info about being a prostitute in the past is wise.
Btw, are you OK with your son reading all info on the present blog, including about sexual life? And, do you think children / teens asking for more info is OK, or it’s a complex for them to think about a parent’s past sex life?
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I found new, bringing readers topic: write something about parenting! F.e. some women don’t tell their kids they had an abortion or were not only in monogamous relationships (even during a talk about those issues and hearing questions about them). And, when asked about their private lives (in general, not their favorite sexual position or anything creepy), tell it’s their private business. Where is the limit and healthy boundaries?
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I meant teens, not little children. Wanted to see the place of the limit between those women being ashamed of their past, hypocricy (telling a daughter to be much more conservative than one has been) and healthy privacy. What would you tell a child? What not?
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What I write here would not even be considered scandalous in the 18th century, I believe. 🙂
The idea that one can conceal anything from one’s children is a delusion. They always know everything as it is. And if they ask questions, the real reason is to know if you will lie, if you can be trusted. Just one lie and the trust is lost forever. So I think the best policy is not to lie at all. If a child grows up in a healthy environment , s/he will not be traumatized by the idea that parents have sex lives.
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// The idea that one can conceal anything from one’s children is a delusion. They always know everything as it is.
How can they know a mother had an abortion or 1-night-stand?
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Don’t you always know when your parents are trying to lie to you?
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Just one lie and the trust is lost forever. So I think the best policy is not to lie at all(Clarissa)
What was that word you used with me yesterday, oh yes, I remember now. Platitudes, very good word. Here’s hoping N doesn’t fuck the babysitter and you then feel the need to tell your 6yr old about his sex life.
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You are projecting your own sad personal life first on Hugo and then onto me. That’s very pathetic.
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Don’t you always know when your parents are trying to lie to you?(Clarissa)
There is a big difference between lying to a child or not sharing personal relational stuff that may hurt them as they may be too young to deal with it. My daughter was given(freely) information about her mothers extra curricular activities that didn’t involve her step father(we were already split). In other words her cheating behavior. Months of counseling and years of discussions have helped her but she still feels the scar. She was 11 at the time and nowhere near emotionally ready to have that kind of adult activity shared with her.
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A child only sees as traumatic what the patent sees as traumatic. If her parents had been tactful and considerate about how the information was delivered, there would be no trauma.
Sadly, too many parents font give a crap about how children feel and just use them as pawns in their wars.
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A child only sees as traumatic what the patent sees as traumatic(Clarissa)
Umm, only? That would mean the child is just an extension of the parent with none of its own feelings or thoughts. You are not actually saying that are you?
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Is my statement so complex that you need to try to translate it? This was your trauma your daughter was mirroring and you are responsible for not making this a painless experience for her. She was trying to please you in this way and only because you signaled to her that you were devastated by your ex-wife having a sex life. You are still obviously devastated by it. That was your mess-up, so take responsibility.
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Projecting, another good word coming from you. Im learning more and more about psychological health. Thanks.
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Or, you could write a post about why some people connect sexuality with violence. I noticed the connection exists sometimes, but not the reasons for it.
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“Here’s hoping N doesn’t fuck the babysitter and you then feel the need to tell your 6yr old about his sex life.”
Woah!!! TfT: this is clearly a very touchy subject for you. I’m beginning to think that HS had an affair with your wife. Why are you so invested?
At any rate, I’m not going to speak for Clarissa but I am going to say what the _normal_ response to an unfaithful spouse should be. (And I imagine that Clarissa and I are on the same page here.)
1) I would be heartbroken and very angry since my partner and I have decided together our relationship would be exclusive. I would certainly feel betrayed.
2) I would probably end the relationship. I don’t think I could personally get over my sense of betrayal.
3) In the event of a split, I would make sure that me and my partner shared dual custody of our child.
4) We would sit down with our child together and truthfully tell him/her why we were divorcing without divulging so many details that the child is traumatized. Something like “Honey we love you and always will. But we can’t be happy together anymore and would like to date other people. So we aren’t going to live together and now you have two homes. But no matter, we love you and always will.” And if at some point, the child discovers something on the internet, I would answer questions honestly and calmly.
5) I would never ever ever ever want my partner to lose his job or be publically maligned. I wouldn’t want my partner to lose his friends or be hated. I wouldn’t think that my partner is a misogynist or a bad person. He would still be him: good at his job, loving, fun, supportive etc etc. One mistake (or a even a series of mistakes) doesn’t take away from his good qualities. I would just realize (with infinite sadness and probably anger) that he isn’t for me. And I would never ever ever share my private anguish or anger with my child.
Isn’t that the normal way adults should handle these things?
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Woah!!! TfT: this is clearly a very touchy subject for you.(Evelina)
Remember I have a daughter who has a mother and had a step father.
Some things you have to watch up close and personal. Some people have lots of thoughts on things and don’t even have kids. Interesting when they then share their ideas on what good parenting is. This song does a pretty good job of what a child might be feeling during a split.
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I’m sorry that you are feeling so much hurt and trauma. But try to keep in mind that all families are different. HS’s cheating has nothing to do with your daughter. He doesn’t even know your daughter.
And here is just a basic question. I outlined what I think should happen when a partner cheats. What do you think should happen? You seem to think that I am somehow expressing something that is incorrect because I don’t have children. So, what wisdom does your fatherhood grant you that I seem to missing on this issue? What do you think should happen to unfaithful partners? They be blocked from seeing their children? They lose custody? They lose their friends? Their jobs? What do you want to happen to unfaithful spouses? And tell me what _you_ think. An old Everclear song tells me nothing.
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All of us here have parents. This is the perspective we are sharing. The perspective of children who might have experienced trauma as a result of their parents’s selfishness.
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@Evelina
Thanks for your concern but Im not traumatized, just passionate. I am passionate about several things Clarissa seems to post about. Single parents, custody, child neglect/abuse, gender stuff. You know, all the fun stuff most people wont discuss in person. As far as Hugo goes I don’t really give a rats ass about him or what he does. I and a few others were just remarking on what we feel his public behavior was like. I think that some of the public things that he does has an abusive quality to it. It is one thing to air your dirty laundry online when you are single it is a completely different animal when you are married/relationship with children. What affects you will indirectly or directly affect them. In a utopian world adults would not gossip and children would not tease. To publically give people fuel to throw on that fire in my mind(and others) is a form of abuse. I think you and Clarissa are wrong on your view of Hugo’s behavior and its affects on others. That is ok, it doesn’t make me stupid or pathetic or a loser, it just makes me an individual with a view that doesn’t match yours. As far as what should be done to Hugo, I think karma is working that out on its own. As far as the Everclear song goes, I just found it quite similar to the words my daughter would say in regards to her experience. Not only that, its a pretty damn good tune also!!!! :):)
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I have nothing to add to Evelina’s brilliant comment.
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// She was trying to please you in this way and only because you signaled to her that you were devastated by your ex-wife having a sex life.
I read this comment and the comment of somebody else’s comment about a less-praised-than-sister girl developing anorexia, and it seems as if a less than perfect parent will lead to huge problems in children and that will be *all* his/her fault. If you are a parent, you lose a right to suffer, for example. And you yourself said that lying to children is hopeless, so they’ll see you suffering, if you do. You should turn into a robot and have only “correct” emotional responses, once you have children. Or praising one child a bit more, if it’s natural to one, will lead to anorexia and be ALL parent’s fault, even if the other child is loved too. I am not talking about abuse here, just about less than 100% perfection from poor parents’ part, who are people too. Normal people, including older children, should have some emotional resilience.
Again, I am not talking about abuse here, but about normal families, where there may be divorce accompanied by some parents’ pain which chlldren may see, one child being praised a bit more, etc.
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“If you are a parent, you lose a right to suffer, for example. ”
– You lose the right to make a show of your imaginary dramas, that’s for sure. But that is the rule of any coexistence between people. Adults solve their problems instead of nursing their wounds in a showy fashion.
“You should turn into a robot and have only “correct” emotional responses, once you have children. ”
– These are your fantasies. I hope you realize that.
“I am not talking about abuse here, just about less than 100% perfection from poor parents’ part, who are people too.”
– Oh, come on, who’s talking about perfection? The linked post was from a horrible, brainless narcissist. Have you read that post? If that is nearing perfection in your eyes, then I really wonder about your standards.
“Normal people, including older children, should have some emotional resilience.”
– Or maybe they should raise their parents and become responsible for their comfort. Let’s make those little suckers work for their keep!
‘Again, I am not talking about abuse here, but about normal families, where there may be divorce accompanied by some parents’ pain which chlldren may see, one child being praised a bit more, etc.’
– There is a gazillion resources on how to handle sibling rivalry and divorce. Books, websites, videos. These are eminently solvable issues. The problem is that many people don’t want to solve anything. They want to “suffer.”
I got a traumatized teenager to come live with me on the very day I left my ex-husband. And I can promise you that I did not turn my feelings about this into her problem. My responsibility to her was many times lighter than that of an actual parent, yet I somehow managed to handle this situation in a way that it didn’t traumatize either of us. This is why I have no patience with drama queens who stage depressions and terrorize children with their showy emotional states.
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// This is the perspective we are sharing. The perspective of children who might have experienced trauma as a result of their parents’s selfishness.
I guess, I haven’t experienced such big trauma, and so don’t tend to imagine the worst and blame parents as the first reflex. Sometimes they deserve to be blamed, but at other times they are simply people, who have a right for their own sincere and not perfect emotional lives, and (older) children should accept and understand that (for their own health and to be just, not demanding perfection they don’t provide themselves).
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“I guess, I haven’t experienced such big trauma, and so don’t tend to imagine the worst and blame parents as the first reflex.”
– Actually, the people who have experienced the greatest trauma are the ones who are the least capable of having a critical, realistic approach to their parents. Do you remember the post about the father who is having children with his daughter? She thinks he is the best father in the world.
I’m not insinuating anything about you here, of course. I’m just saying that bad trauma makes it impossible to ask parents for accountability instead of making it easier, as you suggest.
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May be, you could write a post about parents-children. At which age a child / teen should self-regulate, show resilience and stop blaming parents. At which age saying “you are guilty of suffering because of being cheated on because I was suffering too as a result” is not acceptable.
Also, what you think of limits of parental responsibility. You have been cheated on and are suffering, what is the solution? Lying to kids is impossible, so the only solution seems to be to magically force yourself to stop suffering. Probably, pills would “help” by making one feel nothing at all. When one can say to kids “I am not perfect, I am suffering, I am angry, I am XYZ, those are MY feelings, not yours” and kids should accept that and not begin “trying to please you” by having anorexia, trauma, etc.
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“When one can say to kids … ” — I meant “at which age they are old enough”. 8? 12? 15? 25?
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“At which age a child / teen should self-regulate, show resilience and stop blaming parents.”
– After one has the money to live independently and pay for psychological health, one becomes responsible for one’s own psychological well-being.
“You have been cheated on and are suffering, what is the solution? Lying to kids is impossible, so the only solution seems to be to magically force yourself to stop suffering.”
– If there is no unhealthy symbiosis, it will not occur to the children to share the burden of a parent’s suffering. And what’s so hard about saying, “Your daddy is the best daddy in the world, he is a wonderful person and he loves you very much. He and I don’t want to live together any longer but that’s normal, that happens. We both love you, though”?
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–Your daddy is the best daddy in the world, he is a wonderful person and he loves you very much.
The trick is to actually believe it. I suspect most people do not believe it when their relationship is going downhill…
I am not sure, maybe I am reading something you did not mean into your texts, but what you are writing about is somewhat idealistic and unrealistic, and if one actually attempts to follow your advise too literally, one can push oneself into too narrow bounds (allegedly for the good of the children), which may backfire on those very same children. Actually following your advise requires more maturity than average person possesses; for most people it will be just suppressing one’s true feelings. And you know psychology well enough to understand how it may end. One may even believe that one is sincere about “best daddy in the world”, but… There was some famous psychologist (I forgot who, they kind of blurred together in my mind… maybe Winnicott) who argued that the best parent is “good enough parent”.
El, I am not sure what exactly you mean by “blaming the parents”? Placing, in one’s own mind, a realistic amount of responsibility onto one’s parents does not contradict self-regulation or healthy resilience. Psychological health actually involves both realistic understanding that parents were not perfect and what impact this had on one, and one’s ability to self-regulate despite that.
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I don’t think it requires too much sophistication to see that being a bad spouse doesn’t turn one into a bad parent. And if one has even an ounce of love for a child, one would never tell them bad things about their parent. Imagine a child you know. Would you be able to look them in the eye and say, “Your Daddy is such a bastard”? Even if the Daddy has done a lot of damage to you personally, would you be able to go that? Yet many parents manage that perfectly fine while believing that they are not only good enough but absolutely phenomenal.
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Clarissa, I am mostly speaking from personal experience. My mother tried to pull that “your Daddy is the best” joke. But as you yourself said, kids feel when they are lied to. Plus, besides anybody’s subconscious feelings, there is such thing as reality. Which is more along the lines “oh, shit, I made this mistake, now I’ll pretend this child never existed”…
It’s complicated… Probably I would be more traumatized if I was told the truth right away, just because I would learn it at younger age, and would be less prepared for it. But, technically, I was lied to. And my point was not that one should dump age-inappropriate truth onto the children, no matter what. My point was about being realistic about how much one can twist the reality, because after certain threshold (different for different people) it will “leak” into relationship and traumatize the child in other ways.
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Of course, I don’t think it makes sense to lie to children. But in the context of Hugo, we are talking about men who are good fathers, never did anything bad to the kids, and whose only fault lies in the relationship with the mother. Such a mother is obligated to make it crystal clear that “Daddy didn’t leave us; he left me. Daddy didn’t cheat on us; he cheated on me.” Sadly, many people lack the courage not to hide behind the “we” in this situation, making the children bear part of responsibility for a marital collapse that has nothing whatsoever to do with them.
If the father is an obvious evildoer, then, of course, lying is not the way. I think the best thing to do in such a situation is to consider very carefully “Why did I end up procreating with an obvious evildoer? What purpose was this serving for me?” And, again I’m not seeing any rush to do something of the kind.
People take on the passive voice role in life only too often. It’s their right but only until they make children suffer as a result.
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“When one can say to kids “I am not perfect, I am suffering, I am angry, I am XYZ, those are MY feelings, not yours” and kids should accept that and not begin “trying to please you” by having anorexia, trauma, etc.”
– What children react to are not the words. It’s the need behind the words. All you need to do is see them as human beings and not expect them to hate the other parent just to please you. If that desire is present on any level, though, they will pick up on that and oblige.
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Also, saying “I’m not perfect” is such an old passive-aggressive guilt-tripping trick. Unless somebody approaches you and asks, “Are you perfect?”, there can be no legitimate reason to make this strange statement.
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It seems as though Hugo’s treatment of women of color was deplorable, by his own Twitter confession/manic episode today. I am not sure that can be explained away by mental illness.
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Do you have a link? Because I havent been following the story.
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https://mobile.twitter.com/hugoschwyzer
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There are only two possibilities here: either his account was hacked or he is very very sick. If the tweets are confirmed as Hugo’s, this will put to shame those who bullied a person with such a serious illness.
Poor guy.
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I agree. If those tweets are real, this is very very distressingly sad and I hope that someone steps in to help in.
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I do believe the tweets are real and I do believe he is ill but I also believe he bullied women of color who he felt attempted to expose him, And I believe that had nothing to do with his illness.
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I think the account was hacked, though. Maybe I just want to hope for the best because I can’t take it when people laugh at those who suffer from an illness. I’m sorry I even read these tweets.
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I am never in favor of anyone making fun of anyone, just as I am not in favor of a man who calls himself a male feminist oppressing women of any color. There is enough of a gap between white feminists and feminists of color as it is, i think he purposely manipulated that gap by attempting to silence the women of color who opposed him.
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You still haven’t shared the story about the WOC and I can’t discuss what I don’t know.
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here are a few perspectives:
http://tigerbeatdown.com/2012/01/12/hugo-schwyzer-wants-to-jizz-on-the-face-of-feminism-but-not-why-you%E2%80%99d-think/
http://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2012/02/exile-in-gal-ville-how-a-male-feminist-alienated-his-supporters/252915/2/
http://www.redlightpolitics.info/post/33891884144/i-have-kept-my-mouth-shut-all-these-months-out-of
These are twitter accounts of 2 women of color he specifically named today:
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There is nothing about any abuse of WOCs in these links. Why are you wasting my time?
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Christianity reconstructs the psyche in an insane form. How does one deal with God the sadist in one’s mind? Most Americans are contaminated by this malformation of the psyche, but some more than others.
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If any of the participants in this story had any relation to Christianity whatsoever, they would have never bullied Hugo or had a single critical word to say about his sex life. Christianity specifically condemns any criticism of marital infidelity or bullying of the promiscuous. This is probably the most famous episode in the New Testament.
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I mean the sadistic God. He internally bullies, thus making external bullying redundant.
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Such people confuse the voice of the eternally critical parent they carry inside with the voice of god. They are not mistaken because they do see their bullying parents as infallible.
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I do think it is the source of the American cultural neurosis.
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I think the apocalyptic mentality is the biggest problem. I still don’t know if this is specifically American or part of the English-speaking culture.
Do you see this in Australia? I mean the “I had to find a new dry cleaners which is an enormous hardship”, “people abuse me by greeting me in the street”, “people who don’t adore me on sight are immoral” and “the world that doesn’t provide me with everything just because I exist and am entitled is cruel” kind of worldview.
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No, it is more extreme in America, although there a group of people defined as “bogans” or “aspirationals” who are like that. They dwell in certain specific areas, like the Gold Coast, and may be lower middle class or nouveau riche.
http://eprints.utas.edu.au/2128/
http://thingsboganslike.com/about/
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For Hugo:
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If his Twitter account (which he has recognized he has written himself) is not a textbook example of an abusive, narcissistic manipulator, I don’t know what is. As for the issues with WOC bloggers, here is a start: http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/aug/14/solidarityisforwhitewomen-hashtag-feminism . You can google and find more examples if you are interested in the topic
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That would be Spanish Prof, obviously
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The tweets were written by somebody in the midst of a psychotic breakdown. Lets have some compassion for an obviously sick person. And only mental health professionals can analyze these tweets to see what they demonstrate.
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He gave an amazing amount of interviews for somebody having a psychotic breakdown. Regardless, I have compassion for mental illness, but the guy is an abuser and has always been (regardless of his mental health). The two are not incompatible.
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I keep asking whom he has been abusing recently but nobody has given me an answer. He seems to be an abuser with no victims.
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I would encourage you to contact Flavia Dzodan or blackamazon on Twitter. They have tweeted extensively about how they were treated by Mr. Schwyzer.
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I have really got to wonder what it is that makes people so cryptic on this particular subject. One person after another comes to the blog, drops hints, refuses to say any thing clearly, and then gets upset and leaves in a huff.
I’m not going to seek out any tweets or links. I have already wasted a lot of doing that and not a single link that was offered to me contained anything but even more vague hints and links to other vague hints.
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I think I boils down to WOC and white women viewing feminism differently. Earlier this week on Twitter there was a Solidarity is For White Women hashtag, that created a lot of conversation & probably hurt some feelings. The intent was to express how WOC often deal with racism and sexism from men and how some white women dismiss the racism because they don’t experience it. The hashtag had everything to do with the back and forth that has been taking place between some feminist white women and feminist WOC regarding Mr Schwyzer. I do think Mr. Schwyzer is mentally ill and I also believe his poor treatment of WOC (which he admitted to) had nothing to do with his illness.
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How does any of this justify collectively bullying a person and placing bets on how soon he will kill himself?
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What women of color were doing those things?
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I find your knee-jerk belief that the bullies were WOC to be very disturbing. There is absolute nothing whatsoever to suggest this.
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I don’t have time to collect links, but google Hugo Schwyzer + Brownfeminpower as a starter, if the topic interest you.
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I don’t want links. :-). I just want to hear whom he abused. For now, I’ve heard that he abused his mother-in-law by cheating on his wife and his children by writing about his sex life online. Also, that he abused people by saying something they didn’t like online. After this, it’s hard for me to take any subsequent reference to abuse very seriously.
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He bullied WOC bloggers (Brownfemipower, Black Amazon) who dared to criticized Amanda Marcotte and Jessica Valenti’s books in 2008. Brownfemipower quit blogging for a long time from all the nastiness she received from him. That’s the short version. If you want a longer one, you’ll have to find links
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I thought we were talking about recent events.
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http://fucknohugoschwyzer.tumblr.com/
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No, that’s the point. The guy has a history of this manipulative, crap behavior, and many people act like he started blogging in 2011. And it is not so hard to find out, a Google search is enough. And i second the recommendation regarding FD and Black Amazon.
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Since it isn’t possible to manipulate or abuse anybody by blogging, I’m wondering if people are using these words instead of “offended, annoyed, aggravated, insulted, etc.” He did all of these things to me but there is an enormous distance from offending and abusing.
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“Since it isn’t possible to manipulate or abuse anybody by blogging, I’m wondering if people are using these words instead of “offended, annoyed, aggravated, insulted, etc.” He did all of these things to me but there is an enormous distance from offending and abusing.”
–sometimes it can be difficult to distinguish “insult” from “assault”, as they both sound pretty much alike.
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I’m starting to suspect that the only reason why this discussion is continuing is that people like to use a lot of poetic license with language. I’d rather believe that than accept that people believe they can be abused and manipulated by what they read online.
The funniest thing is that in 2009-10 when Hugo was ultra-famous I was berated and scoffed at for criticizing his writings by the same crowd that is now placing bets on how fast he can be driven to suicide.
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a marauding pack in sheep’s clothing.
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He can be all kinds of jerk but he can never be as disgusting to me as a self-righteous mob on a religious crusade against the morally impure. It’s like witnessing the witch trials in real time.
And note how nobody had any interest in my posts where I denounced his mistaken understanding of feminism. Yet the discussion of his sex life is highly popular.
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Time to revive (or link to) your earlier posts.
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Gosh, there was a lot. Here I wrote about the pathetic nature of his attempts at forced chastity: https://clarissasblog.com/2013/02/16/saturday-link-encyclopedia-and-self-promotion-4/
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Here is one on his obnoxious sex lecturing : https://clarissasblog.com/2012/10/07/sex-lecturing/
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This is a curious post that acquires a new meaning in the light of recent developments: https://clarissasblog.com/2012/09/04/cheating/
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And more: https://clarissasblog.com/2012/06/07/penises-and-uteri-as-weapons-of-mass-destruction/
And this is the post Hugo really hated: https://clarissasblog.com/2011/05/05/good-news-for-fat-chicks/
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And there is more: https://clarissasblog.com/2011/05/12/another-inanity-from-a-male-feminist/
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Yes, I’m reading through them now. I’ve just come from looking at Japanese tsunami footage….
I think I now better understand how much Western feminism is a redemption through-moral-perfection narrative and why many had this love-hate relationship with Schwyzer. They want to be redeemed, so they are open to a messiah, but then they are also angry at the imperfections of the messiah. Perhaps he never really had the power to redeem them, as they had believed?
So much for feminism as a “movement”. I have better movements after my morning cups of coffee.
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In the US, you scratch any surface and you will find religion. Everything is about worship. Even the atheist community is a religious cult. Try discussing absolutely any issue and immediately somebody starts preaching.
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Yes, I think Australia has a bit of that, too, but not to that extent. I think in Australia, and the UK, there is a kind of atheistic puritanism — I mean a fear of contamination by something not proven scientific. I really never understood the extent of American religiosity until very recently. I’ve been functioning in the dark. I also don’t find much meaning in the US divisions between liberal and conservative. People read me one way or another and then accuse me of tricking them. I’m really not trying to be tricky or superficially clever. When I criticize religious fundamentalism, that is from an experiential base, not an ideological one. Whatever I do is not ideological or particularly calculated, but people from the US assume I am shrewd or intent on manipulation if I say too much. In Australia, too, I’ve had similar situations, where people read me as conservative and then discover I am not.
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Maybe we need to get rid of the “feminism as a movement” concept. Feminism as a knowledge resource has some benefits, but I, for one, have never been helped by “feminism as a movement”
As Marechera would say, “pass the castor oil, Alice.”
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Honestly, Clarissa, if you want to look at the information yourself and see the difference between insuling and bullying, you’ll find it. If you don’t, then there is little point in continuing the conversation.
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And by that, I mean trying to get people fired (Flavia Dzodan) for being critical of him. Of course, you can believe her or believe him. I know what I believe. But I am not talking about offending or insulting, I am talking about bullying.
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In the past 2 years, there have been crowds of people trying to get him fired and writing endless letters to his college. They did succeed in getting him fired from all of his writing jobs. The guy has been a victim of a massive mobbing attack which drove him into a psychotic break. I didn’t join the mobbing before he ended up in the psych ward and I’m definitely not joining it now.
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So I wasted another 15 minutes of my life on researching this Flavia person and discovered that there is definitely more than one psychotic person in this story. She sounds positively disturbed and her fantasies about HS’s “magnificent cock” are nauseating.
Is this the paragon of feminist virtue I have been so exhorted to read?
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Understood. Have a good night.
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The previous post doesn’t show up. Let me know if it got lost and I will repost it
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It was placed in moderation for some reason.
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Why there’s so much vile demagogic jerks on this thread?
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Can some ti-jos-connaissant bring to us the Hugo Schwyzer’s judiciary record?
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